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Absantee posted this in her journal:

http://www.thailandfriends.com/index.php?name=Journal&view=journal&juid=83564&jid=69730

Based on your cultural background, what problems do you imagine you would experience if you decided to marry an Arab man/womam and you agreed to relocate and live in Saudi Arabia?

P.S. this is my homework and I think I might get some ideas here

Which has sparked a debate in that journal, im abit tired of listening to the "racist" card being thrown, and it was suggested it was made into a thread, so here goes (hope its alright absentee).

PS: keep it clean, a subject like this could possible explode.

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When i read stuff like this, then my stomach turns on me to be honest, and i find it stoneage, i dont know how widespread this way of dealing with women are in the arab world.

Im being called a racist and a whitey because i find this offensive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia

Womens mobility:

Women’s freedom of movement is strongly limited in Saudi Arabia. They are not supposed to leave their houses or their local neighbourhood without the company of their mahram (close male relative), nor shall they be in contact with unrelated males. Furthermore, mosques, most ministries and public streets are reserved for men. Similarly, women do not have access to most of the parks, museums and libraries

Driving

Most scholars and religious authorities have declared it haram (forbidden) for women to drive cars.

In Saudi Arabia, it is forbidden for women to be alone in a car with a non-mahram man, as it is considered khalwa, a religious and cultural crime.

Restaurants:

Most restaurants in Saudi Arabia have "family" and "male-only" sections

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And for Beej, ive no intention hurting your feelings. I understand that when you generalize as i did with my first comment "dont" that you hit alot of innocent people, and sorry for that.

Ive nothing against arab's in person, ive nothing against islam, but like any religion i find it sad when things get out of hand. But also knows that out of 1-2 billion believers, there will be bad apples, and there will be sick people among them but that its not the majority.

What i really dislike when you mess politics with religion, as the link from wiki about the rights of women in arab countries, then it gets out of hand in my opinion, thats not islam only, i dont like it either when its christianity or any other religion.

But in my opinion there is alot of issues when it comes with women's right in theese countries, and it would be nice to hear your opinion on this ? up to now you have only called me/us "whitey" and "racist" but havent commented at all on the laws and views on women so have no clue if you support them or are against them.

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There's no doubt there are many aspects of "culture" in these countries we would find offensive and repressive, but we need to take into account how "developed" culturally these countries are .... now not wanting to generalise (but i'm gonna anyway), most of these countries/societies are among the poorest (among the general public not the rulers), most backward and most poorly educated !! so it is difficult to compare them to what we would term more "developed" countries/societies. i believe change will come about eventually, but it will (for the most part) have to come from within. hopefuly as these countries get a higher standard of living and a much better education the ppl will demand this change themselves !!

now to give an idea of how quickly changes can come about ... less than 50 years ago u still had segregation in the US and many blacks had difficulty registering to vote !! in northern ireland in the 50's and 60's discrimination in jobs, housing and employment was widespread !!

blacks achieved their aims (for the most part) through a non-violent civil rights movement. northern ireland had a civil rights movement, which (for many reasons) quickly became an armed struggle. resulting in over 3,000 deaths in a country with a population of one and a half million. having lived through that i hope the arab peoples can achieve their freedoms peacefully !!

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I totally agree with u(LasseDK).

PS:

These days u being called racist for nothing.

Last a guy (from other origin then me) came to me and asked me a cigaret.

I said i dont have any cause i dont smoke.

His anwser: u are a racist, u dont want to give me one cause im from another origin.

Its just ridiculous

Some ppl just have a screw loose..

Agree..really ridiculous..

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Here is my jounal last week about honour klling

http://www.thailandfriends.com/index.php?name=Journal&view=journal&jid=69676&juid=94594

Another f*cked up story.. :x

Its a sick sick world we live in, this way of bahavior is so set back that i havent got words for it. We have had a few here too.

I think its more of a cultural/regional enviorment issue than its about religion, but it is sure sick and twisted.

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Good point Ciaran

Societies evolve; very rapidly in the grand scale of things. The evolution of culture is driven by economy and is greatly aided by the global village. People can see how people live in other parts of the world and progressively the old order breaks down.

This progress has some way to go in some parts of the Arab world, but has a lot more to do with 'culture' than religion. For example, there are no restrictions on dress or driving in Dubai, Abu Dhabi or Bahrain. The most prominent Islamic scholar in Cairo has said that the niquab (the veil) should not be worn - yet in Saudi Arabia it is ubiquitous. Saudi Arabia was an impoverished wasteland cut off from the rest of the world until the discovery of oil, and has a legacy of puritanism born out of a pact between the Al Saud and the Wahabis. Wahabiism is an extreme form of Islam that forms the basis of fundamentalism. In common with other extreme forms of religion (Jewish Orthodoxy, Opus Dei, Jesuits, Hindu fundamentalists, Mormons etc) it advocates a lifestyle that most people find unacceptable.

This extremism is growing rapidly among the poor and the disenfranchised, as most of them live in countries where basic rights such as freedom of speech, political suffrage, education and a chance of prosperity are denied. Yet their countries are not poor - it's just that the wealth and power is in the hands of despots. Sadly, these despots are supported by the West for strategic or economic reasons. Hypocritically, the West criticicises or invades some countries to promote democracy (oil), and yet defends and succours some of the most evil regimes on the planet.

It's important not to get distracted by the side issue of clothing. In any case, most Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and many Christians require women to cover their hair. The real issue is equal rights for all genders and classes in all countries. The exploitation and subjugation of women is a growing global disgrace and not exclusive to Islam or any other creed. Female infanticide, bride-burning, trafficking, child labor and slavery are all more pressing issues.

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