Bangkok Mar 12-14

[beej]

THE NATION: Red leaders vowed to parade 13 bodies starting at 10 am 2mmrw, and "make Abhisit see it".

Any idea where from and too?

I guess from Pan Fah to Apisit's gaf on what Soi31? or where ever?

Could be another messy day with tensions running high, especially if the Reds are carrying again.

[beej]

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topic/P9111539/P9111539.html

[Teddy]

He spun and fell to the side.

Probably, from the sounds of shots going off already, this happened after soldiers had gotten hit with the M79s and had been shot, and so some started firing back with real bullets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpARrZG7_qw&feature=player_embedded#

To me it looks like the bullet comes from right to left?

Yea it looks like it came from the right. Crazy clip though. Really brought it to life for me. So far Ive only read about the situation. But that clip was something else. I can imagine it upsetting a few people.

(Im talking about people who get queasy at seeing blood) I know people are pissed off with the reds etc.....But it made me quite sad to see that.

[LakeGeneve]

I went.

I saw Jatuporn being interviewed for TV.

Didn't feel very welcome today... Maybe they've been reading my posts online.

Or maybe I'm part of the biased media?

You went to Ratchprasong? And the size of the crowd? Larger, smaller, the same as the two previous days?

[LakeGeneve]

Looks like a shotgun shell, under that guys head, or are they the same shell casings for rubber bullets?

@ 7:10

That is a discharged shotgun shell. What it contained is another matter. Pellets or blanks - not so common.

It it too hard to tell from the video but some of those light very small round like objects you can see highlighted in the blood pool in the close up at 7:10, 7:11 (being the best frame) & 7:12 to the right of the front of the casing and in a 180 degree arc below and to the back of the casing could be shotgun pellets. But I doubt it and most likely it is a combo of the bitumen and other particles highlighted by the light.

If he was shot in the head, then those particles may be brain matter but I doubt it as it would be reasonable to expected to see some larger and varying sized particles also containing bone fragments and hair. (Those objects in the blood pool are generally the same size.) This would be more the case for a high velocity exit wound than a entry wound. I am not so familiar with shotgun wounds so others may have a better idea.

Rubber bullets are typically fired from a normal bullet casing.

[beej]

Looks like a shotgun shell, under that guys head, or are they the same shell casings for rubber bullets?

Rubber bullets are typically fired from a normal bullet casing.

The rubber bullets I've seen used before were typical shot gun casings, they were the least lethal kind, very flat but heavy, break a bone for sure!

I guess they were fired from those shot guns that looked like toys we saw a few days ago.

[LakeGeneve]

Looks like a shotgun shell, under that guys head, or are they the same shell casings for rubber bullets?

Rubber bullets are typically fired from a normal bullet casing.

The rubber bullets I've seen used before were typical shot gun casings, they were the least lethal kind, very flat but heavy, break a bone for sure!

I guess they were fired from those shot guns that looked like toys we saw a few days ago.

Interesting. I have heard of impact projectiles being fired from shotguns. Is that what you mean? Also bean bags that some police forces use but not rubber bullets from a shotgun, that is a new one.

I would have thought that the problem is that you have to be relatively closer to your intended target using a shotgun and if it is heavy doesn't that maximise potential serious injury. I guess that is why your saying that they are the most lethal kind.

What was the context you saw them?

(Your leg keeping you up mate?)

[LakeGeneve]

He spun and fell to the side.

Probably, from the sounds of shots going off already, this happened after soldiers had gotten hit with the M79s and had been shot, and so some started firing back with real bullets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpARrZG7_qw&feature=player_embedded#

To me it looks like the bullet comes from right to left?

Yea it looks like it came from the right. Crazy clip though. Really brought it to life for me. So far Ive only read about the situation. But that clip was something else. I can imagine it upsetting a few people.

(Im talking about people who get queasy at seeing blood) I know people are pissed off with the reds etc.....But it made me quite sad to see that.

Not sure how you guys can really tell how he fell as we don't know which way he was facing when hit. I have enough trouble making out his wounds. It does sorta seem like a clean and immediate fall which does suggest an almost instant death.

At 7:00 & 7:03 with the flash of someone taking a photo give us a good frontal view prior to him being lifted. No obvious wound to the face but we dont see the right side of his head. The central and right upper torso look ok with no blood at 7:00 but we don't see much.

At 7:03 shows two small pools of blood to the upper right which may be from the other guy already removed.

When he is lifted at 7:05 & 7:06 we see what appears to be a head wound to the back of the head, mid left side, which would be consistent with the pool of blood from where he lay. But I don't see obvious head matter in the pool of blood and the head appears to be generally intact (I cant really tell as the lighting is not good enough). A clean entry wiyj perhaps with no exit (we dont see the lower right side of his head so we cannot tell). The blood is densest where the upper rear of his head lay. W e ould expect a high velocity exit wound would be more obvious with a large hold in the head but again I cannot see clearly.

However, at 7:07 we also see that the back of his uniform on left arm and upper left back below the shoulder blade is covered in a large amount of blood which is exposed seemingly under his black vest (Note: we are not talking bullet proof vests here). The vest is being streached by the red shirt guy ( left) holding the soldier by his left shoulder vest strap with his right hand while his left hand holds the soldiers left arm.

We dont see this blood on the road in the following close up (7:10-7:12) as possibly the vest stopped leakage onto the road. But it appears to be a large enough amount of blood to indicate an injury somewhere on the upper left torso/shoulder/upper arm.

I am interest in the item below the shotgun shell as it has blood under but also fresh blood on top. It looks plastic like a meal ration or something which contained liquid (ie. a drink) but it could also be some sort of mallable metal container. Any ideas?

May have been shot in the head and upper left upper torso? Very hard to see clearly.

[beej]

A lot like these....

http://www.keepshooting.com/ammunition/shotgun/rubber-bullets-12-gauge-for-sale-ammo.htm

[beej]

The ones I've seen before have slugs like the green one in this image..

.

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topic/P9111539/P9111539-57.jpg

[English_Bob]

I went.

I saw Jatuporn being interviewed for TV.

Didn't feel very welcome today... Maybe they've been reading my posts online.

Or maybe I'm part of the biased media?

You went to Ratchprasong? And the size of the crowd? Larger, smaller, the same as the two previous days?

Much smaller than before. And predictably fewer women and children. Some Songkran revelry going on a mere 12 hours after the battles - drinking and water fighting.

[Loburt]

Abhisit and the Democrats have already lost and the army is staging for a coup,

Thats a statement and a half!

much as I hate to admit, he could be right...

Dr Thitinan Pongsudihrak, also from Chulalongkorn University, shares the view that the prime minister's days in office could well be numbered.

"Abhisit's departure is imminent," said Dr Thitinan, who is currently teaching at Stanford University in the US.

"If he and his backers decide to go in for more crackdown, it could boomerang beyond imagination by galvanising the reds' upheaval into an inchoate people's revolution.

"The army's casualties and loss of armoury are shocking... Establishment forces are now shocked, petrified and paranoid. This is why a military assertiveness, perhaps revolving around the more hawkish [deputy armed forces commander] Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha, could be on the cards in the short run," he suggested.

from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8613943.stm

While Abhsiit may not last much longer, it's too soon to say how much longer (days, weeks, months). Events are too uncertain at the moment.

However, Thitinan has been unabashedly pro-Red since mid 2007. He is no unbiased academic.

[PowerPoof]

I hope these videos could tell you guys who shut those red shits, polices and soldiers..

http://www.oknation.net/blog/canthai/2010/04/11/entry-5

[drlovelife8]

There is a really odd feeling seeing people water fight with water guns after recent gun action in the city. Have fun kids, but odd.

Out of sight out of mind I guess.

[Admin_2]

Chaos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnLf0GgYTu4&feature=player_embedded#

[PowerPoof]

I think Thaksin (son of a two balled *****!) who asked Thais to sweat blood and tears now satisfied..go to hell you bastard!

[English_Bob]

(No posts exist for this topic again?)

I think Thaksin (son of a two balled b*tch!) who asked Thais to sweat blood and tears now satisfied..go to hell you bastard!

You know he won't be satisfied - he wants revenge.

This is one of the tragedies of Thailand... Thai people (but men especially) are unable to accept defeat or loss of face. Therefore they will continue to fight indefinitely no matter what the cost.

It is only when one side has been completely destroyed that a fight ceases... Thaksin, Seh Daeng, Arisman, Weng, Jatuporn they will never stop and they don't care who gets hurt or killed in the process.

[Bruce551]

Colonel says situation is 'a civil war'

SPECIAL REPORT: Soldiers tired, stressed - and unarmed - were left at the mercy of thousands of red shirt protesters,

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/35977/colonel-says-situation-is-a-civil-war

Colonel-"How could they fight with those people? Many were killed and many were injured. We've never seen such a scene. Thais killed soldiers. Who did they think we are? They kept shooting at us."

"Protesters were armed. There was an armed militant force. But soldiers did not have a gun. We fired tear gas and rubber bullets, but the protesters were not afraid."

The sergeant - said soldiers who had live bullets fired their guns to protect themselves only when they thought the situation was life-threatening.

SNAFU.........

:?

[LakeGeneve]

Chaos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnLf0GgYTu4&feature=player_embedded#

Wow!!! The person fliming this is a very, very, very lucky person as is the camera guy in the beige/grey hat & white top to the right who is slightly closer to the explosion (would like to see his footage). There were very close to the explosion and lucky that the soldiers in front of them absorbed the shrapnel.

This is the first footage from the soldiers side of the grenade exploding is it not? The two other views we have seen have been from the reds side and some distance away.

[LakeGeneve]

The ones I've seen before have slugs like the green one in this image..

.

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/rajdumnern/topic/P9111539/P9111539-57.jpg

Ok thanks. I guess I have always understood these objects and the red rubber ball in your previous post to be called impact projectiles. I was wondering why none of the red shirts were showing spent rubber bullets to the press. Call it a rubber bullet or rubber impact projectile doesn't matter I guess, it is still going to bloody hurt and discharged in an incorrect manner can be lethal.

This being thailand, should the green object in the pic not be shaped as either Doreman or a panda???

[English_Bob]

People's movement?

Not hardly... when Bangkokians have had enough...

[LakeGeneve]

Colonel says situation is 'a civil war'

SPECIAL REPORT: Soldiers tired, stressed - and unarmed - were left at the mercy of thousands of red shirt protesters,

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/35977/colonel-says-situation-is-a-civil-war

Colonel-"How could they fight with those people? Many were killed and many were injured. We've never seen such a scene. Thais killed soldiers. Who did they think we are? They kept shooting at us."

"Protesters were armed. There was an armed militant force. But soldiers did not have a gun. We fired tear gas and rubber bullets, but the protesters were not afraid."

The sergeant - said soldiers who had live bullets fired their guns to protect themselves only when they thought the situation was life-threatening.

SNAFU.........

:?

As I suggested a couple of pages back, the army has taken a real battering and their image is tarnished in all respects. We run the real risk that a coup may eventuate at some point in the near future not to solve the political impasse but because the armed forces want to take revenge and remind thais who ios really boss in this country.

Quotes below from the same article. Well none of this is rocket science. Even in a fluid situation there are some basic principals. I was against using the army to clear the reds whilst they had been relatively peaceful (relative in a thai proyesy context). I have suggested a number of times in the last week that the best time to launched an incremental operation to retake areas with few reds was at dawn. That is pretty basic.

I still don't understand why the army withdrew from Makhawan bridge at 4-4:30pm after the tear gas debacle and then waited a few hours before confronting the reds at Ratchdamnoen Ave around 7:30-8pm thus allowing them to surge in number and arm themselves. We wont have those answers for a while if at all. If you have lost the momentum, wait until another day. Did the reds going to the 1st Army base on Si Ayuttaya at lunchtime make some commanders become too emotional and lose objectivity and thus put many lives at risk?

Another colonel in the Saturday operation said security forces should have waited until the protesters were more exhausted. "We shouldn't hurry," the colonel said. "Don't set a timeframe to finish the operation before Songkran. We should have based our decision on the situation. But our supervisors feared that if the operation dragged on, more protesters would join the demonstration."

Normally, security forces would wait for the most appropriate time because the operation risked the loss of lives, the colonel said. He said security forces should have waited until the protesters were exhausted or less alert. Dawn was an appropriate time to launch the operation, he said.

However, security forces on Saturday began their operation in the afternoon with an aim to reclaim the demonstration area. "It was not easy, but high-ranking supervisors in the armed forces were emotional," the colonel said. "They wanted the operation to finish in one day."

Do Piant and EB still think that it was the operation was the right thing to do and has sent a clear message to the reds?

[English_Bob]

Yes it was right to try to restore law and order.

However, the operation was mishandled.

Their intelligence was flawed. They didn't know the Red Shirts had grenades and automatic weapons.

I think they should try again... I think they should explain the next time they move, they will be carrying live rounds and will use them if fired upon.

Any protestor that stays will be arrested.

Any protestor that resists will be forcibly removed.

And they should come in HUGE numbers.

Afterwards the leaders should be arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned.

[English_Bob]

http://www.france24.com/en/20100411-exclusive-france-24-footage-payen-show-soldiers-firing-crowd-riot-clashes-violence-demonstration-bangkok-thailand-crack

Report from France24 that shows 7 soldiers being killed by a grenade and soldiers shooting at Red Shirts.

[beej]

People's movement?

Not hardly... when Bangkokians have had enough...

That was a year ago, remember that happening, it was the start of the people standing up against these rouges.