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Bangkok Mar 12-14


bigKus
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Power to the people!

If there is 100,000 on the streets then that is arguably a basis for a revolution!

At this stage it seems more people are just tired of all the disruption caused by the "politics" and resigned to the fact of Thailand being run by a mainly benign JUNTA with a puppet PM posing as a democratic leader.

It is patently obvious that Thailand is anything but a Democracy and to the outside world it is a bit of a mickey mouse "political" system that is at best infantile and at worst psychotic.

The level of discourse on Thai politics is such that it would be hard not to conclude that the "middle class" and comfortable classes= rich are so delusional as to render anything they say as utter nonsense.

The military run the show in Thailand end of story! They in turn are propped up by various powerful vested interests so nothing much is going to change for the good any time soon. The so called PM is a joke/cartoon figure to the outside world and nothing more than a spoiled little schoolboy who is now a very handy puppet to be used as needed by the real power brokers within Thailand.

The real paradox is that the more these people try to run things the way they want the more likely it is that in the end the "REDs" or the movement behind them will eventually coalesce around a narrow objective of attaining power and radically changing the whole system. Just look at what happened in Nepal and you can get an indication of the type of change facing Thailand because of the lack of democracy and the devious behind the scenes going's on.

The REDs may well fail now in their objectives or even for a few more years but in the end the whole system will be torn down and replaced with goodness only knows what. And all because the more comfortable people and richer people in Thailand are so greedy and shortsighted that they done want to spread the wealth of the nation even just a little bit more than is the case at present. More equity within society = more stability and with the brainless attitudes of so many of the PAD types it looks like long term disaster and conflict is unavoidable and inevitable.

Still as Joe Cocker has said

Who knows what tomorrow brings?

In a world few hearts survive?

All I know is the way I feel.

When it's real, I keep it alive.

The road is long, there are mountains in our way,

But we climb a step every day.

Love lifts us up where we belong,

Where the eagles cry

On a mountain high.

Love lifts us up where we belong,

Far from the world below,

Up where the clear winds blow.

Some hang on to "used to be,"

Live their lives looking behind.

All we have is here and now,

All our life, out there to find.

The road is long, there are mountains in our way,

But we climb a step every day

Love lifts us up where we belong,

Where the eagles cry

On a mountain high.

Love lift us up where we belong,

Far from the world we know,

Where the clear winds blow.

Time goes by, no time to cry,

Life's you and I. A life today

:lol::lol:

These is the major reason why I dont like to debate TH politics with foreigner !

Because in general we know and understand politics far more than you! Like how many coups have you had..... etc etc So your saying the Army dont run the show! Ah yeah and pigs fly .................

You simply don't have the capacity or the tradition and experience of political debate so it should be no surprise that you are so ill equipped to think for yourself and formulate logical and coherent political points and perspectives.

As if to underline this we can contrast my little offering with a news report about the "situation" in Thailand.

Thailand starts mobilising troops ahead of mass rallies

Thailand began mobilising 50,000 security personnel on Thursday ahead of a mass rally by protesters who have vowed to topple government.

Thursday, 11 March 2010 14:38

Thailand began mobilising 50,000 security personnel on Thursday ahead of a mass rally by protesters who have vowed to topple government if a new election is not called.

Supporters of deposed premier Thaksin Shinawatra plan a mass rally this weekend, the latest bid to reclaim power by the mainly rural mass movement that has transformed Thai politics.

Thaksin allies have won two elections since 2001 only to be turfed out of power by royalist elites and military brass, including through a coup in 2006.

The "red shirts", who say Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is an illegitimate stooge of the country's political establishment and politicised military, will stage protests across the country on Friday, before converging on central Bangkok on Sunday.

"If (the government) hasn't quit by the 15th, we will march all over Bangkok. It'll be the biggest march Bangkok has ever seen," Nattawut Saikua, a "red shirt" leader, told reporters.

They plan to rally for at least seven days in what has been dubbed "a million-man march" and "an operation to halt Bangkok", although analysts doubt the group can mobilise such numbers.

A special law, the Internal Security Act (ISA), came into effect on Thursday, giving the country's top security agency broad powers to intervene.

Abhisit and his deputy, Suthep Thaugsuban, will be based at a temporary military command centre during the protest.

"If there is a siege, we would no longer consider it a peaceful protest and immediately take steps to disperse the crowds," Suthep told reporters.

Protesters have insisted their rallies will be peaceful and say the government is playing up the threat of violence to justify a possible crackdown.

Now let me guess your one of the PAD nutters? brainwashed into preoccupying yourself with a bloke by the name of Thaskin would is basically irrelvant now and in any case after he was illegally removed from his duly appointed position as elected PM anything that follws from that will always be open to the simple observation that well YOU WOULD SAY THAT WOULDNT YOU!

That is one of the main reasons why army coups are frowned upon! They undermine all subsequent actions, so even if Thaskin is the biggest crook of all [hardly the case in a country like Thailand] the fact is that there is no way in hell this could ever be believed after the coup and the various other shenanigans. Simply put he is unimportant as comp[ared to the real issues which confront Thailand.

A army coup was followed by a judicial coup and this has failed to appease enough people or win the support or loyalty or trust of enough rural people so as to allow politics to move forward or attain some level of legitimacy.

In the end the ARMY are the one in control and that will not change much until Thailand becomes a proper democracy. Something which could be years, or decades away. Outsider/ Foreigners have no axe to grind so can at least be objective. This is much harder for Thais who are in the midst of just emotive and turbulent times.

where have you been recently ? Thailand is now in post-Thaksin era. If you want to talk all bullsh*t about this guy... just talk to my hand

8)

Oh agree that Thailand is in post T era alright [for good or bad] but we are not in a post coup era yet! As has been pointed out you seem to know little or nothing about your country on a political level but then that is no surprise as the best you can offer is school girl insults and childish reactions as oposed to informed and considered points of view.

It is your country so I can watch as a bystander no problem, at least I have the freedom and scope to actually inform myself about Thailand any way I please, while you are limited by your own bias and shortsighted brainwashed delusions.

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Power to the people!

If there is 100,000 on the streets then that is arguably a basis for a revolution!

At this stage it seems more people are just tired of all the disruption caused by the "politics" and resigned to the fact of Thailand being run by a mainly benign JUNTA with a puppet PM posing as a democratic leader.

It is patently obvious that Thailand is anything but a Democracy and to the outside world it is a bit of a mickey mouse "political" system that is at best infantile and at worst psychotic.

The level of discourse on Thai politics is such that it would be hard not to conclude that the "middle class" and comfortable classes= rich are so delusional as to render anything they say as utter nonsense.

The military run the show in Thailand end of story! They in turn are propped up by various powerful vested interests so nothing much is going to change for the good any time soon. The so called PM is a joke/cartoon figure to the outside world and nothing more than a spoiled little schoolboy who is now a very handy puppet to be used as needed by the real power brokers within Thailand.

The real paradox is that the more these people try to run things the way they want the more likely it is that in the end the "REDs" or the movement behind them will eventually coalesce around a narrow objective of attaining power and radically changing the whole system. Just look at what happened in Nepal and you can get an indication of the type of change facing Thailand because of the lack of democracy and the devious behind the scenes going's on.

The REDs may well fail now in their objectives or even for a few more years but in the end the whole system will be torn down and replaced with goodness only knows what. And all because the more comfortable people and richer people in Thailand are so greedy and shortsighted that they done want to spread the wealth of the nation even just a little bit more than is the case at present. More equity within society = more stability and with the brainless attitudes of so many of the PAD types it looks like long term disaster and conflict is unavoidable and inevitable.

Still as Joe Cocker has said

Who knows what tomorrow brings?

In a world few hearts survive?

All I know is the way I feel.

When it's real, I keep it alive.

The road is long, there are mountains in our way,

But we climb a step every day.

Love lifts us up where we belong,

Where the eagles cry

On a mountain high.

Love lifts us up where we belong,

Far from the world below,

Up where the clear winds blow.

Some hang on to "used to be,"

Live their lives looking behind.

All we have is here and now,

All our life, out there to find.

The road is long, there are mountains in our way,

But we climb a step every day

Love lifts us up where we belong,

Where the eagles cry

On a mountain high.

Love lift us up where we belong,

Far from the world we know,

Where the clear winds blow.

Time goes by, no time to cry,

Life's you and I. A life today

:lol::lol:

These is the major reason why I dont like to debate TH politics with foreigner !

Because in general we know and understand politics far more than you! Like how many coups have you had..... etc etc So your saying the Army dont run the show! Ah yeah and pigs fly .................

You simply don't have the capacity or the tradition and experience of political debate so it should be no surprise that you are so ill equipped to think for yourself and formulate logical and coherent political points and perspectives.

As if to underline this we can contrast my little offering with a news report about the "situation" in Thailand.

Thailand starts mobilising troops ahead of mass rallies

Thailand began mobilising 50,000 security personnel on Thursday ahead of a mass rally by protesters who have vowed to topple government.

Thursday, 11 March 2010 14:38

Thailand began mobilising 50,000 security personnel on Thursday ahead of a mass rally by protesters who have vowed to topple government if a new election is not called.

Supporters of deposed premier Thaksin Shinawatra plan a mass rally this weekend, the latest bid to reclaim power by the mainly rural mass movement that has transformed Thai politics.

Thaksin allies have won two elections since 2001 only to be turfed out of power by royalist elites and military brass, including through a coup in 2006.

The "red shirts", who say Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is an illegitimate stooge of the country's political establishment and politicised military, will stage protests across the country on Friday, before converging on central Bangkok on Sunday.

"If (the government) hasn't quit by the 15th, we will march all over Bangkok. It'll be the biggest march Bangkok has ever seen," Nattawut Saikua, a "red shirt" leader, told reporters.

They plan to rally for at least seven days in what has been dubbed "a million-man march" and "an operation to halt Bangkok", although analysts doubt the group can mobilise such numbers.

A special law, the Internal Security Act (ISA), came into effect on Thursday, giving the country's top security agency broad powers to intervene.

Abhisit and his deputy, Suthep Thaugsuban, will be based at a temporary military command centre during the protest.

"If there is a siege, we would no longer consider it a peaceful protest and immediately take steps to disperse the crowds," Suthep told reporters.

Protesters have insisted their rallies will be peaceful and say the government is playing up the threat of violence to justify a possible crackdown.

Now let me guess your one of the PAD nutters? brainwashed into preoccupying yourself with a bloke by the name of Thaskin would is basically irrelvant now and in any case after he was illegally removed from his duly appointed position as elected PM anything that follws from that will always be open to the simple observation that well YOU WOULD SAY THAT WOULDNT YOU!

That is one of the main reasons why army coups are frowned upon! They undermine all subsequent actions, so even if Thaskin is the biggest crook of all [hardly the case in a country like Thailand] the fact is that there is no way in hell this could ever be believed after the coup and the various other shenanigans. Simply put he is unimportant as comp[ared to the real issues which confront Thailand.

A army coup was followed by a judicial coup and this has failed to appease enough people or win the support or loyalty or trust of enough rural people so as to allow politics to move forward or attain some level of legitimacy.

In the end the ARMY are the one in control and that will not change much until Thailand becomes a proper democracy. Something which could be years, or decades away. Outsider/ Foreigners have no axe to grind so can at least be objective. This is much harder for Thais who are in the midst of just emotive and turbulent times.

where have you been recently ? Thailand is now in post-Thaksin era. If you want to talk all bullsh*t about this guy... just talk to my hand

8)

Oh agree that Thailand is in post T era alright [for good or bad] but we are not in a post coup era yet! As has been pointed out you seem to know little or nothing about your country on a political level but then that is no surprise as the best you can offer is school girl insults and childish reactions as oposed to informed and considered points of view.

It is your country so I can watch as a bystander no problem, at least I have the freedom and scope to actually inform myself about Thailand any way I please, while you are limited by your own bias and shortsighted brainwashed delusions.

Amen.

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Thaksin didn't 'win' two elections...

Thaksin bought one election and stole the second...

The UDD are not trying to restore democracy to Thailand. They are not fighting for the poor. Just look at the people who lead it... a gangs of crooks and thieves as rich and powerful as any of the amataya they are trying to remove.

There is no humanitarian basis for their actions - they are driven by power and greed. Their saviour is Thaksin - deemed by the UN as a 'human rights violater of the worst kind'.

While I agree that Thailand's poor need assistance, the LAST people who can, will or should provide it are the UDD.

Need proof of their peaceful intentions?.... Seh Daeng

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I'll have a better solution: I'll have a generall erection :lol:

I make a point of having one of those at least once a day!

Ok so as to avoid boredom and being attacked [as is always the case when you put your above the... I merely wish to paste in some comments I seen elsewhere http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/171124/armed-forces-chiefs-no-more-coup which are at least worth considering.

More than half the voters voted for the government that was overthrown, not once but three times in the last few years.

The UK and Thailand are different including in mobility. People in the countryside are poor and not always able to get to BKK, and besides they they get shot at and trampled by the military so many are fearful.

Also, the PAD's political party received 1.7% of the last poll so as far as numbers go, the PAD should have never been allowed to have any say whatever, and were supported by the military to the point they were able to topple governments.

A few thousand thugs taking over government property, airports and other parts of the city was only possible because the military refused to carry out its duty when the elected government requested they do so.

Besides that, the PAD supporters are almost all from BKK and the surrounding areas, which explains why they can more easily and more quickly get people mobilized, albeit in far lower numbers than the UDD supporters.

I am also pretty sure the Pro Hunting people stem from wealthy and or well enough off sectors of society to afford being able to travel.

Maybe their killer instinct has something to do with it too...?

Also, the UK military did not set up road blocks along the way to keep the people from getting to London. Not to mention the fact in general, the pol;ice are there to keep the poorer people at bay, and are in fact at the service of the middle and upper classes.

THAI History shows us all too well to NEVER TRUST THE MILITARY. Action speaks louder than mere words--the facts have shown repeatedly that the Thai military looks out for its own interests--first and foremost. They have their hands in the till and as long as money is flowing into their coffers--they are getting a piece of the pie--they will live with the status quo.

The biased, double standards and hypocrisy of the Thai military has only served to divide the nation more than ever. If it was not for the military, many problems in Thailand would have been dealt with democratically. But that has not been the case and the majority of Thais know that. They are not blind nor fools and they are well aware of the military's involvement in corrupting Thai politics. As long as the military interferes in suppressing true democracy in Thailand, there will always be coups.

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Thaksin didn't 'win' two elections...

Thaksin bought one election and stole the second...

The UDD are not trying to restore democracy to Thailand. They are not fighting for the poor. Just look at the people who lead it... a gangs of crooks and thieves as rich and powerful as any of the amataya they are trying to remove.

There is no humanitarian basis for their actions - they are driven by power and greed. Their saviour is Thaksin - deemed by the UN as a 'human rights violater of the worst kind'.

While I agree that Thailand's poor need assistance, the LAST people who can, will or should provide it are the UDD.

Need proof of their peaceful intentions?.... Seh Daeng

With respect I think you are mistaken as I feel that, like so many you miss the real issues here. I dont dispute the specific examples you may offer but rather I ask that you see the bigger picture/s

Corruption? No that is actually not he issue. Because let us assume that as you say the REDS are full of crooks and totally corrupt? Well as you say that makes them no different than the other side. EXCEPT THAT they have the far great popular support. Wheter as you say it is bought or otherwise is hardly a big deal in such a corrupt country. What is the issue is that a really crap democracy [as we will say was the case under mr T] however bad is still better than what happened subsequent to 2006.

It is the nature of the behind the scenes power of the elites and its manifest contempt for democracy which is the boil that has to be lanced here. A return to a democratic path and some semblance of transparency is what is needed and the huge part in all of this is the whole engagement by the political classes with the poor of Thai society and efforts to improve their lot.

Give them a greater stake in society and politics can at least start down the path of working -eventually, whereas what happened was that when things got bad and difficult, democracy was ditched for expediency . That was always a recipe for disaster and a very retrograde move.

The proof of this if you like is that Thailand is still as divided as it was 4-5 years ago and no real attempt has been made or been successful at fixing this.

Those with power and wealth simply have got to get used to the idea of giving up some of what they have become so accustomed to having. If there was a lot more give from those with the most in Thai society and more concern for their fellow citzens and improving the standards of living for the vast majority then progress and compromise could be found on all sides.

Instead there is too much disdain and arrogance shown towards the less well off and rural Thailand. People need to feel they have some chance of justice or fair play and they know they are not getting with the current JUNTA.

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Using the defense that there's no difference between one crooked politician and another ignores a very important point - Thaksin was the richest man in Thailand... By a long way. His greed and arrogance was his undoing. His wealth came at the expense of Thai people - that money should be spent on the people - not enriching the Shinawatra clan.

Thaksin's government was illegitimate due to fraud and vote-buying - and was properly removed.

To say that the government shoots demonstrators is misleading. The last two times that happened, the Governor who ordered the army in was Samak - remember him? Thaksin's ally?

Of course there were other incidents of authorities killing people, most notably Tak Bai, Krue Seh and Thaksin's War on Drugs...

Let's not forget the 130 + bullets shot into Sonthi's car that almost killed him.

And while we're discussing this violence stuff, how about grenade attacks on PAD camps, government buildings, Silom banks. Oh and the gas tankers on the Bangkok streets, and Pattaya ASEAN summit riots... Oh and don't forget the crooked land deal, the assets non-disclosure, Ample Rich, banning of Thai Rak Thai for widespread vote-buying, the golf course on National Park land, the fraudulent attempts to buy Liverpool with taxpayers' money, the soft loan to Burma (to use Shin Corp satellites), the amendment of laws to allow him to sell a national communication company to a foreign buyer, subsequent tax evasion, attempted bribery of high court judges.

The current government might not be the best... But it's the best we've had for a long time. And given the alternative, I'd rather see Abhisit than any of the others.

(written on my phone - imagine how much stuff I could find if I wasn't relying on my memory!)

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Using the defense that there's no difference between one crooked politician and another ignores a very important point - Thaksin was the richest man in Thailand... By a long way. His greed and arrogance was his undoing. His wealth came at the expense of Thai people - that money should be spent on the people - not enriching the Shinawatra clan.

Thaksin's government was illegitimate due to fraud and vote-buying - and was properly removed.

I won't respond to all your points as in any case you are just cherry picking and zooming in on very speculative issues that you pass off as fact as opposed to conjecture. It is easy to point to various isolated events and make various assertions but as I say you need to look at the bigger picture and I dont suggest that it is ever ok to have crooks or offer this as a defense. I merely say that corruption was happening anyway and all sides were guilty of it, so if we park this issue on that basis we can address the real issues which have been facing Thailand.

What I would say is that when you say the following

"Thaksin's government was illegitimate due to fraud and vote-buying - and was properly removed"

You are just factually wrong wrong wrong, and this type of propaganda is just that. Not at all an objective assessment of the actual situation.

Thaksins government was democratically elected and he won the elections [plural] regardless of how many times people say it was vote buying. He would almost certainly have won another election before he was ILLEGALLY REMOVED from power through the barrel of a gun which invalidates any case against him after the fact, of this scandalous and shameful childish "solution" to the problems Thailand faced.

This was very clearly not proper and so many of the problems for Thailand stem from this cowardly and idiotic act. It sent Thailand into a reverse direction and has only divided the country further. All because the time for coups was thought to be well and truly over and that Thai democracy had matured enough to allow people behave like adults as opposed to little children who throw everything out of the pram when they cannot get their own way

No doubt such activities took place [on both sides and various parties] but there was never any widespread dissent either domestically or internationally when the Thai Rak party where doing so well.

It can of course be argued that Mr T was a bad man etc etc = no argument from per say, but much of his popularity was his courting of the poor people and their vote with populist policies. That's called politics and yes it is often ugly but it is still far better than what has happened, something which has greatly damaged the reputation of Thailand and put back its development by years.

It is now in the class of unstable nations and it is viewed as a country unable to manage its affairs properly anymore. The PM is a standing joke with about as much status as a puppet= for that is what he is. He is a more articulate and photogenic version of Samak. Two sides of a similar coin.

You seem to overlook that the people who assumed power then set about furthering their own agendas and yet could not even manage this effectively despite having all the levers of power and their own people in the right places= not least of which was the judiciary which after the coup acted exactly as they were in effect directed to do.

Before the coup I would have been totally against Mr T but after it the whole game has changed and it is not about him anymore. The REDS have far more legitimate grievances than the PAD who are sad to say largely scum or delusional brainwashed fools. And they will win in the end too. Just not clear how long it will take but the ARMY will most likely still be running things from behind the scenes for some time yet.

I would suggest a book worth reading [though you dont have to agree with the author] is a book called "A COUP FOR THE RICH" http://www.isj.org.uk/docs/CFRbook.pdf by Giles Ji Ungpakorn who I think is now in exile as his politics are too dangerous for Thailand!

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Thaksin didn't 'win' two elections...

Thaksin bought one election and stole the second...

The UDD are not trying to restore democracy to Thailand. They are not fighting for the poor. Just look at the people who lead it... a gangs of crooks and thieves as rich and powerful as any of the amataya they are trying to remove.

There is no humanitarian basis for their actions - they are driven by power and greed. Their saviour is Thaksin - deemed by the UN as a 'human rights violater of the worst kind'.

While I agree that Thailand's poor need assistance, the LAST people who can, will or should provide it are the UDD.

Need proof of their peaceful intentions?.... Seh Daeng

Oh thks p'Dave...

Here we go again mr.allseason... big yawning!!! lazy to read what he post, can someone sum it up for me?

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I cant wait for Taksin to be PM again. Thailand did betterthan ever. To be a good leader of a corrupt place,you need to know how to use corruption. He did.

When he returns, Thailand will get back that feeling it had 6 years ago. It was awesome then.

I can't wait for Taksin to go to jail. He is a convicted criminal, sentenced in a legitimate court with legitimate evidence.

That man can never ever in his wildest dreams return to "lead" this country.

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Here we go again mr.allseason... big yawning!!! lazy to read what he post, can someone sum it up for me?

Yes - he says I'm cherry picking, but refuses to address any points. He ignores human rights' violations, murder, theft, and vote rigging.

Every point against UDD is dismissed as propaganda.

He read a book once.

(He should read biographies of the UDD leaders.)

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I cant wait for Taksin to be PM again. Thailand did betterthan ever. To be a good leader of a corrupt place,you need to know how to use corruption. He did.

When he returns, Thailand will get back that feeling it had 6 years ago. It was awesome then.

I can't wait for Taksin to go to jail. He is a convicted criminal, sentenced in a legitimate court with legitimate evidence.

That man can never ever in his wildest dreams return to "lead" this country.

Lets say we don't disagree about "That man can never ever in his wildest dreams return to "lead" this country" and that he will never again be PM of Thailand? [Well I dont think he will because as someone already pointed out it is now a post T era].

However the fallout from the 2006 coup and the subsequent judical coup born from background dealing with the army being a huge power broker is such that we are now looking at a very different situation, sure the team colours may be the same but what is at stake now is not about mere personalities but the whole idea of having a legitimate democracy for Thailand.

The 1997 constitution was thrown out not for the gain of the majority of the Thai people [for they are mostly poor] but for people with their own vested interests and agendas, which in turn might be fine if there was not also such contempt for democracy and the worse off people in Thai society.

But also what on earth makes you think the court is legitimate [as opposed to totally political]

Before the coup I would have been totally against Mr T but after it the whole game has changed and it is not about him anymore. The REDS have far more legitimate grievances than the PAD who are sad to say largely scum or delusional brainwashed fools. The simple fact is that there are legitimate grievances abounding within Thai society and all this division and manipulation can only makes things far worse

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Here we go again mr.allseason... big yawning!!! lazy to read what he post, can someone sum it up for me?

Yes - he says I'm cherry picking, but refuses to address any points. He ignores human rights' violations, murder, theft, and vote rigging.

Every point against UDD is dismissed as propaganda.

He read a book once.

(He should read biographies of the UDD leaders.)

I think you need to read my posts again as I did indeed address some of your points as they were really relevant to our debate. However I dont want to be side tracked with issues that presume to put me in a position of defending mrT.

Fact is, the man was the duly elected PM and winner of many elections which AT THE TIME OR SINCE were not judged to be so bad as to be illegal by any international watchdog, and as soon as he was out of the country in 2006 performing his duties as PM an opportune moment saw a bunch of self serving cowards illegally seized power [for invariably GENERALS ARE ALMOST ALWAYS COWARDS AND CADS OF THE WORST KIND]

The facts of what followed are more like a pantomime than adult politics or anything one might hope for in any sort of mature or developing democracy. Fixating on mr T is just a tired tactic to distract attention from the real issues.

As for me reading a book? Well I have read many! And quite a lot of periodicals and various other sources of information about the political situation in Thailand but that hardly means I am right in anything I have wrote.

There are many valid arguments that could be made against my view/s/perspectives but I just have not seen any yet, which is not to say that someone wont come forward with a coherent and articulate set of reasons as to why I am or could be mistaken in my views.b i still try to keep an open mind and am always open to persuasion, especially where it can be shown I am in error or somehow misinformed.

We will see how things pan out and after a time when the history is wrote about the last decade plus of Thai history and politics it will be amusing to compare facts and myth.

In the modern world it is very hard to tell one from the other.

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Here we go again mr.allseason... big yawning!!! lazy to read what he post, can someone sum it up for me?

Yes - he says I'm cherry picking, but refuses to address any points. He ignores human rights' violations, murder, theft, and vote rigging.

Every point against UDD is dismissed as propaganda.

He read a book once.

(He should read biographies of the UDD leaders.)

Thank so much p'Dave.... no surprise then... good that i didn't read it.

I think his brain system is crashed, or his morality was destroyed...

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Here we go again mr.allseason... big yawning!!! lazy to read what he post, can someone sum it up for me?

Yes - he says I'm cherry picking, but refuses to address any points. He ignores human rights' violations, murder, theft, and vote rigging.

Every point against UDD is dismissed as propaganda.

He read a book once.

(He should read biographies of the UDD leaders.)

Thank so much p'Dave.... no surprise then... good that i didn't read it.

I think his brain system is crashed, or his morality was destroyed...

As always attack the poster and not the post.

Well that's ok really. I regard you as politically illiterate so little schoolgirl insults are pretty pointless and self defeating.

Essentially you are clueless and unable to think for yourself that it is comical for you to bother with such empty comments.

You have every right to be churlish and ignorant but it changes nothing.

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Just for fun and amusement, perhaps Thai people might be curious to see the latest travel advisory for Thailand by the Irish government?

Surely we can agree this might offer some small perspective and indicator of how Thailand is viewed from a far?

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=8493

Ok here it goes then. We encourage citizens travelling to this destination to register their contact details here.

POLITICAL UNREST

The political situation in Thailand remains highly volatile and uncertain. Irish citizens travelling to or through Thailand should be aware that there are on-going anti-Government protests in Bangkok. There is a possibility of further political unrest and more violence.

Travellers to Bangkok should avoid government buildings, state institutions and any demonstrations. Irish citizens should plan their movements carefully and follow local advice closely.

The Government will invoke the Internal Security Act from 11 to 23 March. This is in anticipation of major anti-Government protests which are planned for Bangkok over the weekend of 13 and 14 March. There will be an increased security presence throughout the capital and, possibly, checkpoints and searches of vehicles and/or people. You are advised to carry a photocopy of your passport with you at all times. There were several small bomb attacks during February in various locations around Bangkok, including near to Government House.

We advise against all but essential travel to or through the southern Thai provinces of Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat and Songkhla. Since January 2004, some 3,000 people have been killed in this area of southern Thailand as a result of a separatist insurgency and related civil unrest.

The area surrounding the Preah Vihear temple is the subject of a sovereignty dispute between Thailand and Cambodia. There have been clashes between troops of both countries and violent protests. You are advised to avoid the area.

Political demonstrations have been held in Bangkok since 2008 with many outbreaks of violence, mostly in areas of central Bangkok. These clashes were generally confined to the Government House area, Parliament Buildings and Police Headquarters. The situation remains unpredictable. There have been violent clashes between the police and protestors as well as several bomb attacks. Several people died and hundreds were injured, although there are no reports of any foreigners having been injured.

Transport, communications and public utility services continue to operate as normal.

Irish citizens in Thailand should take note of the following:

* Keep informed of the developing situation on the ground in Bangkok and elsewhere via local and international media and updates to this website.

* Visitors should exercise extreme caution in Bangkok and other areas of political unrest, throughout Thailand.

* Avoid demonstrations, large groups and public gatherings.

* Avoid Government buildings, state institutions and Universities throughout the country.

Irish citizens in or intending to travel to Thailand are strongly advised to register their details on the Department of Foreign Affairs Travel Registration page: http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=40332. If you are unable to register online with us, you can send an email to the Honorary Consulate of Ireland in Bangkok ([email protected]) Please include your contact details in Thailand and the location where you are staying.

If you require assistance or advice locally, you should make contact with the Honorary Consulate of Ireland in Bangkok on [+66] 2 677 7500. Alternatively, you can reach the Consular Assistance Centre at the Department of Foreign Affairs in Dublin on +353 1 408 2000.

Intending travellers are strongly advised to contact their airline, travel agent or tour operator before leaving Ireland to re-confirm travel plans and itinerary.

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Here we go again mr.allseason... big yawning!!! lazy to read what he post, can someone sum it up for me?

Yes - he says I'm cherry picking, but refuses to address any points. He ignores human rights' violations, murder, theft, and vote rigging.

Every point against UDD is dismissed as propaganda.

He read a book once.

(He should read biographies of the UDD leaders.)

Thank so much p'Dave.... no surprise then... good that i didn't read it.

I think his brain system is crashed, or his morality was destroyed...

As always attack the poster and not the post.

Well that's ok really. I regard you as politically illiterate so little schoolgirl insults are pretty pointless and self defeating.

Essentially you are clueless and unable to think for yourself that it is comical for you to bother with such empty comments.

You have every right to be churlish and ignorant but it changes nothing.

whatever

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