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Could Thailand Become a Failed State?


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With modern communications, the glaring differences in incomes and standards of living are there to be seen daily by the poor and the highly indebted. They see unfairness and are easily persuaded to do things which otherwise they would not even consider doing. Worse, a large segment of the better-off is getting richer by engaging in shady business practices and in many cases outright criminal activity; they start by using political connections and corruption as grease but have recently taken control of the political process itself. Most provinces, municipalities and local administrative districts are now largely controlled by politico-business oligarchies. Each oligarch uses a system of patronage to maintain its base.

Sometimes they fight but they also collude, especially at the national level. This collusion has been made easier by modern technologies and especially by the culture of corruption and indifference that I wrote about on July 9 and Nov 11.

As a result, Thailand is now practically divided into fiefdoms controlled by shady people with money.

The conflict of the last few weeks reflects disagreements among them as well as with some politicians who are a little more idealistic and thus not willing to accommodate their wishes.

As most Thais remain indifferent to whatever the oligarchs are doing, the idealistic politicians will lose the current battle, leaving Thailand to be governed by the rich crooks. The latter will soon put the country on the path towards total breakdown, making Thailand a failed state long before recent college graduates draw their pensions.

Only a miracle can save us now.

From Sawai Boonma writing for the Bangkok Post.

Complete article can be found here.

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With modern communications, the glaring differences in incomes and standards of living are there to be seen daily by the poor and the highly indebted. They see unfairness and are easily persuaded to do things which otherwise they would not even consider doing. Worse, a large segment of the better-off is getting richer by engaging in shady business practices and in many cases outright criminal activity; they start by using political connections and corruption as grease but have recently taken control of the political process itself. Most provinces, municipalities and local administrative districts are now largely controlled by politico-business oligarchies. Each oligarch uses a system of patronage to maintain its base.

Sometimes they fight but they also collude, especially at the national level. This collusion has been made easier by modern technologies and especially by the culture of corruption and indifference that I wrote about on July 9 and Nov 11.

As a result, Thailand is now practically divided into fiefdoms controlled by shady people with money.

The conflict of the last few weeks reflects disagreements among them as well as with some politicians who are a little more idealistic and thus not willing to accommodate their wishes.

As most Thais remain indifferent to whatever the oligarchs are doing, the idealistic politicians will lose the current battle, leaving Thailand to be governed by the rich crooks. The latter will soon put the country on the path towards total breakdown, making Thailand a failed state long before recent college graduates draw their pensions.

Only a miracle can save us now.

From Sawai Boonma writing for the Bangkok Post.

Complete article can be found here.

If the rampant and unchecked greed, graft and corruption keeps continuing, combined with the fact that all the government departments are so inept, combined with a chronic education system here, I have no doubt Thailand will remain a second world country and continue to fail and be left behind by all its neighbours.

And Thais have no-one to blame but themselves.

I feel really sad for this country, with SO much going for it, as it keeps shooting itself in the foot year after year.

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First of all I think that Thailand deserves a bit of credit. It obviously caused the Asian economic crisis in 1997 but it has emerged I believe far stronger than virtually every other country from the financial crisis of 2008. Even China that did better in terms of GDP just ramped up bank lending to incredible levels.

No banking collapse (it had that before), a very substantial current account surplus and a very modest fiscal deficit. If you take the two combined it has been one of the few countries in the world to record a twin surplus. Think of the UK and US with twin deficits of 15% of GDP - this is Greek economics.

The other thing to remember is that political uncertainty is a factor of life in Thailand. Let's face it if it isnt people shooting each other it is Banharn, Chavalit, Samak (and at least there is a man who can cook RIP). Or of course various geriatic military leaders - maybe we can have a coup to celebrate his 90th birthday this year.

So really we should all get worried when we have political stability here because it never lasts. Does anyone in Thailand hate each other? isnt all this really a case of crying over spilt milk? When everyone wakes up and grasps reality - whether it be that the poor and downtrodden deserve something or the poor and downtrodden will always remain.... well poor.... so be it.

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As most Thais remain indifferent to whatever the oligarchs are doing, the idealistic politicians will lose the current battle, leaving Thailand to be governed by the rich crooks. The latter will soon put the country on the path towards total breakdown, making Thailand a failed state long before recent college graduates draw their pensions.

Only a miracle can save us now.

When Thaksin first became PM he did a good job of ensuring that the economy was bouyant enough to supply him and his cronies billions and billions of dirty baht. It's in the rich crooks' interest to make sure Thailand doesn't fail. However it's *not* in their interest to see Thailand succeed as a real democracy. They just want to make it look like one.

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It hurts me to say this, but here I go. Thailand is failed already when it comes to education and healthcare system. The riches have the best, pretty much the same as every where in the world but the different is the poors in Thailand have almost nothing. The governments never really cared about the poors. Take that 30 bth healthcare thing for example. It could work, if there were doctors at the public hospitals but as far as I can see most doctors prefer to work for private hospitals, more money in their pockets. Patients have to wait hours and hours and do they get the best medicines? I wonder. But please do correct me if I’m wrong, if any of you in that 30bth programme and has got positive experiences, do tell me. Rich children go to the best school possible, while the poor kids next soi go to a public school where teachers are busy working extra to feed their family. Why can’t we make every school in TH in the same level? Why can’t we provide the equal healthcare to every Thai?

Corruption is the major problem, it hurts me even more to say this, almost everyone corrupted, one way or another, more or less, with or without knowing that they corrupt or if they want to admit?? I corrupted too, I immediately give a policeman who stops me for speeding 500 bth in order to get away with all complications. My father paid tea-money to the school in order to get me in even I passed the exam, and that was over 30 years ago. Has anything changed by now? Yes, parents pay even more money than my father used to pay.

Having said all this, I love Thailand no less than the next Thai. But sometime we just have to face the truth even if it hurts us badly and make it right. Protesting like some of us are doing now could be ok, but does anyone know what they are fighting for? Does anyone really understand what democracy is?

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Why can’t we make every school in TH in the same level? Why can’t we provide the equal healthcare to every Thai?

I agree with you that the public education system is not as good as most of the private system. And, I agree that the public medical system needs to be improved. But as long as you allow free enterprise, and people are willing to pay, the private system will always be better. But definitely public education and public medical need to be improved.

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My father paid tea-money to the school in order to get me in even I passed the exam, and that was over 30 years ago. Has anything changed by now? Yes, parents pay even more money than my father used to pay.

But most if not all parents are happy to pay this and tout the fact as a display of wealth to family, friends and neighbors.

Wanna stop corruption? Then Thais should stop showing off

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But most if not all parents are happy to pay this and tout the fact as a display of wealth to family, friends and neighbors.

Maybe you're right. But in the old days, it was more like parents wanted their kids to have good connections/networks (= being with parents-can-effort-to-pay-extra kids).

Wanna stop corruption? Then Thais should stop showing off

Touche' big time!!

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The governments never really cared about the poors. Take that 30 bth healthcare thing for example. It could work, if there were doctors at the public hospitals but as far as I can see most doctors prefer to work for private hospitals, more money in their pockets. Patients have to wait hours and hours and do they get the best medicines? I wonder.

When the 30 baht scheme was implemented there was a Dr pushing for free government sponsored healthcare. Thaksin took the idea and promised 30 baht health care, but never made any attempt to finance it. It didn't have to work, it was just another way to get votes. If anything the 30 baht scheme has forced good Dr's out of the public hospitals due to lack of finance for the project.

The dems' 12 year free education policy could be a good thing. I'm guessing Phea Thai will claim it was their idea.

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Corruption is the major problem, it hurts me even more to say this, almost everyone corrupted, one way or another, more or less, with or without knowing that they corrupt or if they want to admit?? I corrupted too, I immediately give a policeman who stops me for speeding 500 bth in order to get away with all complications. My father paid tea-money to the school in order to get me in even I passed the exam, and that was over 30 years ago. Has anything changed by now? Yes, parents pay even more money than my father used to pay.

I totally agree with you.

Everyone of us who have been to Thailand HAVE broken the law - whether it was in buying cheap pirated products or products without paying any VAT; working or carrying on businesses (either as Thais or Foreigners) in Thailand and paying little to No Taxes; or paying bribes to policemen, administrators, government officials or politician.

Everyone of us should take a deep breath, have a good look at ourselves before casting stones.

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Corruption is the major problem, it hurts me even more to say this, almost everyone corrupted, one way or another, more or less, with or without knowing that they corrupt or if they want to admit?? I corrupted too, I immediately give a policeman who stops me for speeding 500 bth in order to get away with all complications. My father paid tea-money to the school in order to get me in even I passed the exam, and that was over 30 years ago. Has anything changed by now? Yes, parents pay even more money than my father used to pay.

I totally agree with you.

Everyone of us who have been to Thailand HAVE broken the law - whether it was in buying cheap pirated products or products without paying any VAT; working or carrying on businesses (either as Thais or Foreigners) in Thailand and paying little to No Taxes; or paying bribes to policemen, administrators, government officials or politician.

Everyone of us should take a deep breath, have a good look at ourself before casting stones.

Good luck telling that to the next cop that pulls you over.

The problem is most people don't have a choice. The parent who wants their kid to get a decent education doesn't have any other options, except maybe to leave the country. This should be policed by the government, but they are the biggest players of the lot.

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Corruption is the major problem, it hurts me even more to say this, almost everyone corrupted, one way or another, more or less, with or without knowing that they corrupt or if they want to admit?? I corrupted too, I immediately give a policeman who stops me for speeding 500 bth in order to get away with all complications. My father paid tea-money to the school in order to get me in even I passed the exam, and that was over 30 years ago. Has anything changed by now? Yes, parents pay even more money than my father used to pay.

I totally agree with you.

Everyone of us who have been to Thailand HAVE broken the law - whether it was in buying cheap pirated products or products without paying any VAT; working or carrying on businesses (either as Thais or Foreigners) in Thailand and paying little to No Taxes; or paying bribes to policemen, administrators, government officials or politician.

Everyone of us should take a deep breath, have a good look at ourself before casting stones.

Good luck telling that to the next cop that pulls you over.

The problem is most people don't have a choice. The parent who wants their kid to get a decent education doesn't have any other options, except maybe to leave the country. This should be policed by the government, but they are the biggest players of the lot.

I think you have misundestood my point.

Maybe I should have posted it on the other thread" Bangkok Mar 12-14".

Just trying to raise a little awareness, not having a go at anyone in particular.

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Having said all this, I love Thailand no less than the next Thai. But sometime we just have to face the truth even if it hurts us badly and make it right. Protesting like some of us are doing now could be ok, but does anyone know what they are fighting for? Does anyone really understand what democracy is?

But, I think that may be one of the underlying flaws in the Thai system, the refusal to address problems.

In 2006 or 2007 they published a report about the average number of books read per person by country. Thais, on average, read two books per year. Meanwhile a much poorer country, Vietnam has an average of 60.

What was the response of the Thais?

Publishers and Booksellers Association of Thailand (PUBAT) president Risuan Aramcharoen said "We prefer listening and watching rather than reading, so we are more interested in television and the radio."

The then PM Surayud Chulanont said "Apart from listening and watching, Thais also love talking."

He also said schooling was just one facet of education and there were many other activities to be promoted.

WTF?!!? Schooling is the primary facet of education! What other facets are there?

And what are Thais watching? If they're suggesting that lakorns are a good substitute for great literary works they need to be punched in the face.

But my point is that you hear this appalling statistic and everybody wants to bury it. They try to make it seem unimportant. Nobody wants to fix the problem because fixing it would mean acknowledging it exists.

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Having said all this, I love Thailand no less than the next Thai. But sometime we just have to face the truth even if it hurts us badly and make it right. Protesting like some of us are doing now could be ok, but does anyone know what they are fighting for? Does anyone really understand what democracy is?

But, I think that may be one of the underlying flaws in the Thai system, the refusal to address problems.

In 2006 or 2007 they published a report about the average number of books read per person by country. Thais, on average, read two books per year. Meanwhile a much poorer country, Vietnam has an average of 60.

What was the response of the Thais?

Publishers and Booksellers Association of Thailand (PUBAT) president Risuan Aramcharoen said "We prefer listening and watching rather than reading, so we are more interested in television and the radio."

The then PM Surayud Chulanont said "Apart from listening and watching, Thais also love talking."

He also said schooling was just one facet of education and there were many other activities to be promoted.

WTF?!!? Schooling is the primary facet of education! What other facets are there?

And what are Thais watching? If they're suggesting that lakorns are a good substitute for great literary works they need to be punched in the face.

But my point is that you hear this appalling statistic and everybody wants to bury it. They try to make it seem unimportant. Nobody wants to fix the problem because fixing it would mean acknowledging it exists.

I used to think that Thais read more than that, but I changed my mind when I met some of my dear old friends from university. They don’t read any longer, not even newspaper. They told me they don’t have time to read (pretty much the same as when I told them I don’t have time for exercise, poor excuse!!!) and newspaper is full of **** news. We have approx 60 million Thais, thinking of how huge book business can be if we all read. I went to book stores on Silom road and hoping to find some interesting book, but most of them are cartoon and those lovely kitty silly things. The best seller was Udom Teeapanich’s book, comedy book (and in fact, Udom’s book was ok, sabai sabai Thai style). How about library in Thailand? When was the last time a Thai visit a library? I know that every school and university in TH have at least one library, but it seems empty. Most students prefer to hang around a shopping centre than spent time in a library. More fun there, I know.

Thai TV is crap, I watch it during my last visit. There were some game shows (or whatever you call it) from Korea and Japan. A few talk shows were interesting but I don’t think they can beat those silly game shows from Korea and Japan. We’re happy go lucky people, what can I say?

Nobody wants to fix the problem because fixing it would mean acknowledging it exists.

True!! and on top of that we lost face if we admit we have problems. We hide the problem and hope it will go away. Well, sometime it does, you should try that, Bill but if it doesn’t then you’re in deep ****.

And before other Thais boo me for what I say, I must repeat that I love my country but when something is really wrong, we just have to take a deep breath, admit it and fix it if you can. Don’t fix a big problem because that’s out of your hands, fix what you can for exp. stop giving a police any money, go to that darn tent and cast your vote on election day and simply read a book.

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Nobody wants to fix the problem because fixing it would mean acknowledging it exists.

True!! and on top of that we lost face if we admit we have problems. We hide the problem and hope it will go away.

Bullseye!

In my mind, this is Thailand's biggest, most deeply rooted problem. On the cover, the mai pben rai attitude is wonderful. Why focus on the bad when you can focus on the good? That's all great for a little while.

For those Thais that have seen and lived in efficient systems and for foreigners that only know what it's like to live in an efficient system (and it's a stretch to call them that), Thailand can get quite frustrating. It's the me me me attitude rather than looking at every system as a whole. Before I go off on a rant...Thank you, Nicky. I know you're saying this because you know better, and because you love Thailand.

I love this country too, but it's like trying to push a tour bus up a hill so it doesn't fall back into the sea (while the driver wants to go in reverse for some reason). It's not easy to sit back and watch all of this happening knowing that I can't do anything to help. It's hard enough to teach one person why contributing to gridlock in this city only hurts everyone in the end (literally), let alone attempting any large system changes.

That's it for now. I'll be out of my PMS Thailand phase shortly...

:evil: :evil: :evil:

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The dems' 12 year free education policy could be a good thing. I'm guessing Phea Thai will claim it was their idea.

Its in 2007 Thai Constitution.

Section 49. A person shall enjoy an equal right to receive education for the duration of not less than twelve years which shall be provided by State thoroughly, up to the quality, and without charge Rights and Liberties in Education, Part 8 of the Thailand Constitution 2007

That means any Thai government (Abhisit, Somchai or Samak) is required to provide the necessary funding or somebody would have taken the government to Court.

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  • 3 months later...

Enemy of Democracy

* Published: 8/08/2010 at 04:45 AM

* Newspaper section: News

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/190061/enemy-of-democracy

Earlier this week there was a piece of news about alarmed citizens up in arms. An act of immorality, impropriety and altogether improperness had swept across the city of Bangkok. Good, morally upstanding Thais were shocked, stupefied and scared stupid.

This abominable plague is called the act of love. It's the work of evil spirits, possessing young Thai couples to express their affection for one another by embracing. They even dare to kiss and whisper loving words into each other's ears. As if that wasn't sinful enough, they dare to do it in public places, like the mall or the park.

Concerned citizens quickly notified the media and alerted the Ministry of Culture to this cultural shame.

It has been declared: `"his is inappropriate! This is immoral! This is a problem! This must be solved! There must be a law!"

A couple of months ago I had a conversation with an official from a government agency that monitors television commercials. He said he has no power to censor; he can only make recommendations as to what should be aired and what shouldn't.

One example was a deodorant commercial where three girls squealed and fought over one handsome man because the scent of his armpits was so rapturous, so irresistible and just downright yummy. The commercial encouraged violence and improper behaviour, the official said to me with a straight face. And so he advised the brand and the television stations to lock it up and throw away the key. But that isn't the issue here. Puritanical government agencies are a fact of life anywhere in this world. The issue is: Television media conformed to the advice without a thought. The business, the brand owner, obeyed without a protest.

Here we have two examples of the real obstacle to Thailand's democracy.

When the media and business - two powerful actors in any society - are so willing and ready to jump on board the ship of fools and trample on the most basic elements of democracy - freedom of thought, freedom of expression - then, ladies and gentlemen - how can we achieve democracy in this country? When we the people, ordinary citizens, are so vehement in denying others their basic human rights - freedom of thought, freedom of expression - then, ladies and gentlemen, how can we achieve democracy in this country?

As you can see here, the law isn't the problem. There are no laws banning public displays of affection. There are no laws banning televised images of girls fighting over manly odors.

It is we, the people, who have no tolerance for acts that discomfort us. We, who persist to discard the basic rights of humans. We, who insist on imposing our personal moral values on others.

In the mainstream televised news media, we will not find a news show that discusses issues in a frank, honest manner. Many pretend to, but they don't. That's not because the government passed a law against it. It's because the news media does self-censorship.

This is due to either cowardice, the fear of upsetting the status quo and/or repercussions. Or the lack of imagination, the intellectual incapability to achieve anything above mediocrity. Or small-mindedness, the intolerance that lies at the heart of prejudice. Or ignorance, the cluelessness of the role of the news media in a democratic society.

Most likely all of the above.

Ask a Thai and he or she will give a textbook recital of what a democracy is. But the examples above illustrate that too many of us have neither the understanding of nor an appreciation of democracy, whether we can do a textbook recital or not.

An act defines a character. A word defines a value. A social attitude defines a society.

Consider that democracy is an ideal based on the values of freedom.

Consider that freedom is the right of individuals to live life as he or she sees fit, within the bounds of the law that is fair, just and democratic.

Consider that intolerance and censorship go against the development of a democratic society.

Consider that self-censorship is the slow suicide of democracy.

Consider that the true obstacle to Thailand's democracy is not the government, but we the people - we the media, we the private sector, we the society.

Consider that this needs to be changed. Consider that those of us who understand and appreciate should teach - not impose upon - but teach others to understand and appreciate the values of democracy.

[email protected]

About the author

columnist

Writer: Voranai VanijakaI

Position: Editor

" but teach others to understand and appreciate the values of democracy." The school system in Thailand doesn't teach this, reasoning skills, debating the social issues and critical thinking on government policy. Instead, the system trains Thais to conform social & cultural ideals that elders in Thai society (Amart) think are appropriate.

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after I read all of the comments here... I'm thinking of living somewhere else, lol.Hrrr...

For me,

yes, Thai Politics is bull ****. Gov. Red or Yellow... they are all bullshit!!

yes, Thai education sucks, but thks heaven atleast I'm educated I know many country might say my master's degree is nothing, a tissue paper might worth more than my degree. However, I'm proud, at least I know what I have been done.

yes, Thai don't like reading, but we can use the other methods to get to them. That's why we have education tech.

yes, Thai like corruption, it's disappointed me sometimes, for me i never pay policeman on street, cuz I don't like to break traffic rules, if i break it cuz i don't know the rule, and I will pay at the police station only.

yes Thailand has many many bad stuff.... I'm not happy the way it is, but I don't lose my faith.

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after I read all of the comments here... I'm thinking of living somewhere else, lol.Hrrr...

For me,

yes, Thai Politics is bull sh*t. Gov. Red or Yellow... they are all bullshit!!

yes, Thai education sucks, but thks heaven atleast I'm educated I know many country might say my master's degree is nothing, a tissue paper might worth more than my degree. However, I'm proud, at least I know what I have been done.

yes, Thai don't like reading, but we can use the other methods to get to them. That's why we have education tech.

yes, Thai like corruption, it's disappointed me sometimes, for me i never pay policeman on street, cuz I don't like to break traffic rules, if i break it cuz i don't know the rule, and I will pay at the police station only.

yes Thailand has many many bad stuff.... I'm not happy the way it is, but I don't lose my faith.

And yet, we all choose to live here :-)

Thailand has many faults. So does every country. I think the biggest problem is that some of these problems might eventually cause Thailand to fall behind the rest of SEA. Education is a big one. You can't turn that around in a day, a year, or even a few years. It takes decades to turn around.

I think most of the people who have commented aren't bashing Thailand. We're sort of saying "Come on Thailand, wake up! Do something before it's too late."

We choose to live here. We want Thailand to succeed and prosper.

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Thailand is far ahead of the countries that surround it though by a long shot. Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, and Malasia don't hold a candle to Thailand. Thailand is far better than any of those countries surrounding it. Coming back from any of them to Thailand is like coming back to an industrialized country rather than a 3rd world developing country. There is a big difference, and I'm sure that any one of you that has traveled at all in those countries notices a big difference when getting back into Thailand.

Thailand is also the only one of them that has a Democracy, even if it is just in the development stage.

Thailand also has won many awards for their accidemic excellence of some students on the world level. Those that aren't lazy do have the resourses around them to excel.

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Thks p'KB. lol...

Well, talking about Education... one thing that I don't understand... if Thai education is that ****, why some ppl from overseas come to study here. Even the guy who told me my degree wasn't worth than a tissue paper, he study in the same university. So what does it mean?

and about healthcare, if it's that bad, why we have so many patients from overseas here? So we success in some way, can we say that?

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Thks p'KB. lol...

Well, talking about Education... one thing that I don't understand... if Thai education is that sh*t, why some ppl from overseas come to study here. Even the guy who told me my degree wasn't worth than a tissue paper, he study in the same university. So what does it mean?

and about healthcare, if it's that bad, why we have so many patients from overseas here? So we success in some way, can we say that?

Bangkok is light years ahead compared to the rest of thailand and most Thais living in the city seem to forget this frequently.

What about the 50 million who do receive a poor education and sub-standard healthcare? Pffft, outside BKK, who cares...

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Thks p'KB. lol...

Well, talking about Education... one thing that I don't understand... if Thai education is that sh*t, why some ppl from overseas come to study here. Even the guy who told me my degree wasn't worth than a tissue paper, he study in the same university. So what does it mean?

and about healthcare, if it's that bad, why we have so many patients from overseas here? So we success in some way, can we say that?

Bangkok is light years ahead compared to the rest of thailand and most Thais living in the city seem to forget this frequently.

What about the 50 million who do receive a poor education and sub-standard healthcare? Pffft, outside BKK, who cares...

It is currently realized that economic development without human development leads to disaster in terms of natural resources, the environment, communities, as well as the individual's quality of life.

Civics and Values Education in Thailand: Documentary Analysis

Somwung Pitiyanuwat; Siridej Sujiva

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