Stranger Danger

[English_Bob]

Thailand is a bit of a Utopia for paedophiles - lax law enforcement, poverty and an air of laissez faire. It seems to many that Cambodia are doing more to address the issue than Thailand. Finally, offenders can be punished in their own country for crimes committed abroad.

I used to work with an American guy whose tastes ran to the very young - I contacted the FBI and told our employers, but he disappeared before anything could be done. The police attitude was - no complaint has been made (by the teenage boy who shared his room most nights) and the staff of his apartment building stopped talking as soon as the police got involved.

While not a perfect guide, here are a few common traits that people should be looking for...

Profile of a Pedophile

Pedophiles Can Be Anyone:Pedophiles can be anyone -- old or young, rich or poor, educated or uneducated, non-professional or professional, and of any race. However, pedophiles often demonstrate similar characteristics, but these are merely indicators and it should not be assumed that individuals with these characteristics are pedophiles. But knowledge of these characteristics coupled with questionable behavior can be used as an alert that someone may be a pedophile.

Characteristics of a Pedophile :

• Often the pedophile is male and over 30 years of age.
  
• Single or with few friends in his age group.
  
• If married, the relationship is more "companion" based with no sexual relations.
  
• He is often vague about time gaps in employment which may indicate a loss in employment for questionable reasons or possible past incarceration.
  

Pedophiles Like Child-like Activities:

• He is often fascinated with children and child activities appearing to prefer those activities to adult oriented activities.
  
• He will often refer to children in pure or angelic terms using descriptives like innocent, heavenly, divine, pure, and other words that describe children but seem inappropriate and exaggerated.
  
• He has hobbies that are child-like such as collecting popular expensive toys, keeping reptiles or exotic pets, or building plane and car models.
  

Pedophiles Often Prefer Children Close to Puberty:

• Pedophiles often have a specific age of child they target. Some prefer younger children, some older.
  
• Often his environment or a special room will be decorated in child-like decor and will appeal to the age and sex of the child he is trying to entice.
  
• Many pedophiles often prefer children close to puberty who are sexually inexperienced, but curious about sex.
  

Pedophiles Work Around Children:

The pedophile will often be employed in a position that involves daily contact with children. If not employed, he will put himself in a position to do volunteer work with children, often in a supervisory capacity such as sports coaching, contact sport instruction, unsupervised tutoring or a position where he has the opportunity to spend unsupervised time with a child.

The Target Child:

The pedophile often seeks out shy, handicapped, and withdrawn children, or those who come from troubled homes or under privileged homes. He then showers them with attention, gifts, taunting them with trips to desirable places like amusement parks, zoo's, concerts, the beach and other such places.

Manipulation of the Innocent:

Pedophiles work to master their manipulative skills and often unleash them on troubled children by first becoming their friend, building the the child's self esteem. They may refer to the child as special or mature, appealing to their need to be heard and understood then entice them with adult type activities that are often sexual in content such as x-rated movies or pictures. They offer them alcohol or drugs to hamper their ability to resist activities or recall events that occurred.

Just a quick search on Google will pull up hundreds of stories like the following...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/oct/16/internationalcrime.thailand

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/08/22/opinion/opinion_30011609.php

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/06/24/us-court-indicts-paedophile-imprisoned-in-thailand/

In all these cases, the paedophiles came to Thailand to abuse young children. And in almost every single case, they took teaching jobs to get close to their victims.

It's well known that paedophiles often choose work that brings them into close contact with children - priests, scout-leaders, teachers. One has to ask the question, what percentage of men working as teachers in Thailand are paedophiles? What would bring someone to a very poorly paid job that commands almost no-respect amongst peers? Aren't there a myriad of other jobs that offer more?

One might also ask, what can the Ministry of Education do to address the issue?

Are there sufficient checks on teachers' backgrounds?

What can be done to curb the numbers of paedophiles entering the country and abusing vulnerable Thai children especially in rural areas?

Where is the line between civil liberties and genuine caution? Is it OK to check someone's computer for incriminating pictures, movies or websites visited?

Surely a basic criminal record search in the teacher's home country would be prudent?

[CiaranM]

It's well known that paedophiles often choose work that brings them into close contact with children - priests, scout-leaders, teachers. One has to ask the question, what percentage of men working as teachers in Thailand are paedophiles? What would bring someone to a very poorly paid job that commands almost no-respect amongst peers? Aren't there a myriad of other jobs that offer more?

One might also ask, what can the Ministry of Education do to address the issue?

Are there sufficient checks on teachers' backgrounds?

What can be done to curb the numbers of paedophiles entering the country and abusing vulnerable Thai children especially in rural areas?

Where is the line between civil liberties and genuine caution? Is it OK to check someone's computer for incriminating pictures, movies or websites visited?

Surely a basic criminal record search in the teacher's home country would be prudent?

while there r many good, qualified farang teachers in Thailand earning a good salary ... working as an English teacher is probably the only job here many guys r "qualified" to do !! and again many of the guys teaching English r decent blokes who just don't want to live/work in the West and this is their only way of staying in Thailand.

but i would agree that anyone working with kids should have some kind of security check before being allowed to work with kids !!

[iBatch]

but i would agree that anyone working with kids should have some kind of security check before being allowed to work with kids !!

DITTOooooooo.

[English_Bob]

Of course. I'm not saying most English teachers are pedophiles. But most pedophiles are or have been teachers.

[CiaranM]

Of course. I'm not saying most English teachers are pedophiles. But most pedophiles are or have been teachers.

i think u just ******* made that up !!!! hahahahaha !!!

[Dave40]

Sadly not many of the children go on to lead happy lives the abuse may end but the (pyschological scars) stay with them for life!!!!

[admin]

It's well known that paedophiles often choose work that brings them into close contact with children - priests, scout-leaders, teachers. One has to ask the question, what percentage of men working as teachers in Thailand are paedophiles? What would bring someone to a very poorly paid job that commands almost no-respect amongst peers? Aren't there a myriad of other jobs that offer more?

I agree with most everything you say except the part about the poorly paid job that commands almost no-respect amongst peers. There are a lot of people who go into English teaching around the world because they like to travel and live in exotic places. I think Thailand comes down harder on the English teachers because so many of them, at least in the past, used to 100% sexpats. And most didn't come here to be a teacher. They came here for sex and then decided to move here and it was the only job for which they were qualified (though qualified may be too generous of a word here).

There are many teachers who have taught in various parts of the world before coming to Thailand. That just seems to be the choice they've made in life.

[Barbell]

pedophiles should be shot

[English_Bob]

I agree with most everything you say except the part about the poorly paid job that commands almost no-respect amongst peers. There are a lot of people who go into English teaching around the world because they like to travel and live in exotic places. I think Thailand comes down harder on the English teachers because so many of them, at least in the past, used to 100% sexpats. And most didn't come here to be a teacher. They came here for sex and then decided to move here and it was the only job for which they were qualified (though qualified may be too generous of a word here).

There are many teachers who have taught in various parts of the world before coming to Thailand. That just seems to be the choice they've made in life.

Exactly - people who came here for another reason, but teach in order to stay. It's not exactly a glowing reference, is it? "I teach because I have no other choice."

Of course, professional, qualified teachers should be encouraged. However, I have no doubt that they would have no objections to a thorough background check.

During my stay here, I have met all kinds of teachers, both good and dire. And I have to say, the weirdoes are not that hard to spot. Poor grammar, spelling, punctuation, comprehension skills, inarticulate - these are strikingly obvious and not indicative of a professional language teacher.

I would like to see some kind of quality control - a teaching ability test - to weed out those who are unqualified. And in addition, I think it is especially prudent in a country like Thailand that a background / criminal record check is done too.

There does seem something a little shifty in a grown man opting to sing nursery rhymes and colour in pictures every day for 25k a month. I'm not sure I'd want someone like that sitting next to my kids.

[Stramash]

Everyone has always been highly critical of George W Bush; mainly because he was a trained monkey in a suit. BUT...there was one bit of excellent legislation he brought on to the statute books that is tackling paedophile tourism; The Protect Act. This Act and cooperation from Thailand and Cambodia (with unwritten agreement as to have formal agreements would have dragged through bureaucracy for years) is making a difference.

There was a brilliant documentary on a few weeks ago on the BBC (The Paedophile Hunters) about the work done by America's Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency (ICE) in South East Asia which is seeing the end of short sentences (or escaping justice by bribes) in SE Asian countries, and seeing instead the predators returned to their home country to be jailed. Unfortunately the UK has still to join the 'scheme', but Australia and Canada have joined in the last year.

Here's the article from the documentary producer;

The US agents tracking down sex tourists in Cambodia

By David Henshaw Producer, The Paedophile Hunters

As part of an initiative to protect children from sexual predators, including those who travel overseas, special US agents operating in South East Asia have brought more than 80 alleged child sex tourists back to America to face justice.

Sihanoukville looks like paradise, or at least a decent, low-rent version. Golden beaches, swaying palm trees, cheap alcohol and shimmering sea.

Retired American pharmacist Ronald Adams had come here for the good life - setting up a beachside cafe. But one morning last February Adams' personal vision of paradise was shattered, when officers from the Cambodian National Police raided his apartment.

They found a collection of sex aids, child pornography on DVDs and a variety of illegal drugs. Adams was accused of drugging and raping a 12-year-old girl.

Under the radar

For Westerners arrested on child sex charges in South East Asia, things do not always turn out too badly. Gary Glitter got a two-and-a-half-year sentence in Vietnam for obscene acts with girls aged 10 and 12.

These are poor countries, where $100 can buy your freedom. But Ronald Adams had more to reckon with than the local police. An agent from America's Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency (ICE) was part of the group carrying out the raid.

If a US citizen is caught abusing children abroad, American agents are now on hand with the specific aim of getting the suspect on a plane to stand trial back in the US.

ICE is part of the Department of Homeland Security, based in Washington, with a severe, Brooks Brothers-suited lawyer, John Morton, as its director.

"Don't think that simply by buying a plane ticket to leave the United States and going to a country with less robust investigative and prosecutorial capacities that you are going to be able to get away with it again," Morton said.

"Perfect example - the three gentlemen we brought back from Cambodia."

The "three gentlemen" were given the moniker Twisted Travellers by ICE in a heavily publicised and deliberately humiliating extradition from Cambodia 18 months ago.

All three had previous convictions for abusing small children in the US. The oldest, 75-year-old former marine Jack Sporich, now faces a sentence of 15 years for sexually abusing a number of young boys.

Cambodia's jails are full of foreign paedophiles, but for most of them a short sentence is all they have to worry about. But even that can be avoided if you have the money to pay off the police and the judge.

America was the first country to be positively pro-active about arresting and returning their child abusers to face justice. It has been joined in the past 12 months by Australia and Canada.

For US special agent Chris Materelli, it is as much about moral responsibility as law enforcement.

"If Americans are coming here to do this against the Cambodians, it's our job to try to help the Cambodians clean it up," he says. "They're our citizens, it's our responsibility to bring that person to justice."

In the seven years since the Protect Act was passed, America has brought back 85 child sex tourists to face justice in the US.

But none of this would work without a ground-breaking change in the way US agents work - not just with local police, but NGOs run by ordinary citizens.

In the tourist hot-spots of Cambodia, Action Pour Les Enfants (Action For Children, APLE) acts as the eyes and the ears of ICE in keeping surveillance on suspect Americans.

Young men on motorbikes patrol the streets with video cameras supplied by the Americans. It was an APLE undercover team that came across Ronald Adams openly asking for sex with underage girls, "the younger the better".

This kind of co-operation with ordinary locals represents a massive change of attitude, almost unthinkable 30 years ago in the wake of America's bombing of Cambodia.

Cambodians are welcome within the ranks of ICE agents. Vansak Suos, once a conscripted boy soldier in Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge army, now occupies an office in the US Embassy in Phnom Penh, with a photo of himself and Bill Clinton on his desk.

Vansak's story is bleak, his brother, two sisters, and grandfather were all killed in the time of Pol Pot. He, himself, barely survived, but having done so was determined to use his life to protect other children

Big catch

Forty-five-year-old millionaire from Florida, Kent Frank, is probably ICE's biggest catch so far. He is a serial global child sex tourist, who was caught abusing four underage girls in his hotel room in Phnom Penh.

Vansak describes how Frank tried to bribe the local police chief.

"Kent Frank just stood up and put his hand in his pocket. Then, shaking the hand with the boss. And the boss just found $100 in his hand," he says.

Frank admitted to having sex and taking photos of the girls he had been with, saying that he believed they were all over 18

"That's a common defence, that these kids are older than what they appear to be because they're Asian," says ICE agent Gary Philips. "And if I had a nickel for every time I've heard that, I'd probably be a millionaire."

Frank tried to delete the incriminating photos on his digital camera, but at ICE's state-of-the-art cyber forensics lab back in the US, 1,600 deleted pictures were recovered. Frank is currently serving a 40-year sentence in a federal jail.

But it doesn't always end that way. After seven months on remand in a Cambodian prison, Ronald Adams was released without charge. The court decided that because his alleged victim says she was drugged, her evidence could not be relied on. He has since disappeared.

Vansak shrugs and moves on. He is, he says, proud of what he has done. Every sex offender convicted means that many more children are now safe.

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Here is part one on you tube. I wont post all 4 parts but hope people will go and watch it all as it is riveting viewing. Well done and respect to all the ICE agents, and those working with thim in SE Asia, and yes, well done to George W for such a fine bit of legislation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqfesMWxS5Q&playnext=1&list=PL017ED6BFC5FAAE74

Edited March 12, 2011 by Stramash
oops; missed a bit

[Stramash]

why is this in the 'No holds barred' thread?

[Stramash]

pedophiles should be shot

Really? Every single one of them? Even when there is evidence of generational and learned patterns of abuse?

[admin]

Exactly - people who came here for another reason, but teach in order to stay. It's not exactly a glowing reference, is it? "I teach because I have no other choice."

Again, I agree with the overall point however this is a country where it's not exactly easy to carve out a living. You have a profession that has high demand and can't be done by Thais. In Thailand most other professions simply don't have enough demand for farang workers.

Look at something like an IT worker. Back home they might be able to pull down $60,000 - $100,000 USD a year. Here? Not even close if they can even find a job.

For them teaching might seem like a more stable route than back to back contract gigs and constantly hunting down work. In fact, they can pay the bills with their teaching income and hit up eLance or whatever to get outsourced gigs for extra cash.

That doesn't necessarily make them a bad teacher though. They might even enjoy teaching. Like Rob teaching math. That's not his profession. He was simply interested in it and thought it might be fun.

But I don't disagree that background checks should be mandatory. Though I question the utility. Who would process all of these requests? How would they check? The only people it would likely catch are people with sex offender convictions back in their home countries. My guess is that that would be a small drop in the bucket in terms of whack-jobs that come to Thailand.

[Stramash]

My guess is that that would be a small drop in the bucket in terms of whack-jobs that come to Thailand.

I disagree with this Bill. The vast majority of Western paedophiles arrested in SE Asia already have convictions for similar crimes in their home country.

Logistically it would be a nightmare, but doable. Certainly in the UK there is a seperate register for sex offenders (not sure of system in US) and there is also the PVG (protection of vulnerable groups) list, which includes all types of abuse against children or vulnerable adults.

How many Westerners work in occupations that will/may bring them into contact with children? They usually have to wait for work visa to be sorted before taking up post, so an extra couple of weeks to check relevant convictions would not be too much trouble.

[English_Bob]

why is this in the 'No holds barred' thread?

I want all my threads in the 'No Holds' forum section, so I don't need to worry about breaking the rules...

[Stramash]

I want all my threads in the 'No Holds' forum section, so I don't need to worry about breaking the rules...

There was a fairy. Her name was Nuff.

[English_Bob]

Profile of a Pedophile

Characteristics of a Pedophile :

• Often the pedophile is male and over 30 years of age.
  
• Single or with few friends in his age group.
  
• If married, the relationship is more "companion" based with no sexual relations.
  
• He is often vague about time gaps in employment which may indicate a loss in employment for questionable reasons or possible past incarceration.
  

Pedophiles Like Child-like Activities:

• He is often fascinated with children and child activities appearing to prefer those activities to adult oriented activities.
  
• He will often refer to children in pure or angelic terms using descriptives like innocent, heavenly, divine, pure, and other words that describe children but seem inappropriate and exaggerated.
  
• He has hobbies that are child-like such as collecting popular expensive toys, keeping reptiles or exotic pets, or building plane and car models.
  

Pedophiles Work Around Children:

The pedophile will often be employed in a position that involves daily contact with children. If not employed, he will put himself in a position to do volunteer work with children, often in a supervisory capacity such as sports coaching, contact sport instruction, unsupervised tutoring or a position where he has the opportunity to spend unsupervised time with a child.

As with the above - it's not a cast iron guarantee, but the warning sign are there.

Can you think of someone who is a bit of a loner, over 30, no friends? Someone engaged in childish activities? Single? Who maybe gets confused describing his past work experience?

Someone who works with children?

I'm not saying that all people who fit these criteria are disgusting paedophiles, but they definitely deserve a second look.

I regret the 'one that got away' all those years ago. Occasionally I wonder if he ever got caught or if he is still around and offending.

I bet that if the government of Thailand cancelled the 90 day notification requirement, that would free up enough civil servants to check the backgrounds of all those applying to work with children.

[Stramash]

I bet that if the government of Thailand cancelled the 90 day notification requirement, that would free up enough civil servants to check the backgrounds of all those applying to work with children.

The work would not be done at the Thai end, but in the home country of those being checked. The Thai contribution would purely be in the submission of details (name, dob, passport number etc) to the relevant agency in the other country.

What is missing at the moment is reciprocal arrangements between Thailand (or other SE Asian countries) and the countries in the West. We already do enhanced checks for anyone working with ANY vulnerable group (not just children).

The politicians need to prioritise this, then pass it to the diplomats to negotiate.

IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT BUT DAMNED IMPORTANT.

[English_Bob]

The work would not be done at the Thai end, but in the home country of those being checked. The Thai contribution would purely be in the submission of details (name, dob, passport number etc) to the relevant agency in the other country.

What is missing at the moment is reciprocal arrangements between Thailand (or other SE Asian countries) and the countries in the West. We already do enhanced checks for anyone working with ANY vulnerable group (not just children).

The politicians need to prioritise this, then pass it to the diplomats to negotiate.

IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT BUT DAMNED IMPORTANT.

Surely a match would be pretty easy... Details sent to the home country via email. A quick check against convicted paedophiles - name/dob/passport number - and a return email - OK... Not OK... or Arrest on sight.

[Stramash]

Surely a match would be pretty easy... Details sent to the home country via email. A quick check against convicted paedophiles - name/dob/passport number - and a return email - OK... Not OK... or Arrest on sight.

Not that quick unfortunately.

Here anyone going in to a job with any involvement with children or vulnerable adults has to have what is known as an enhanced disclosure (this shows ALL convictions over your lifetime, and not just those that have not expired under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act). This process takes between 3 and 6 weeks to complete. (databases need to be checked separately in Scotland, England & Wales (0ne entity for this exercise) and Northern Ireland.

Local authorities have just brought in a new quicker check for their own employees called the PVG check.(though the enhanced disclosure is still required) Anyone who has a conviction for ANY type of abuse against children or vulnerable adults go on the PVG list. Prior to this there were separate lists for those banned from working with children and those banned from working with vulnerable adults.

It is actually now an offence for someone to even apply for a job if they know they are banned from working with the particular client group.

Further to this, most sex offenders have lengthy, or lifelong, restrictions placed on them. For example; not being allowed to enter a public park, not being allowed to own a computer etc. One of my current caseload is banned from owning a bicycle, as some of his offences took place on a cycle path.

I would guesstimate that should a reciprocal agreement be set up you could be looking at between 6 - 12 weeks for relevant information to come back. Though if the individual had an international arrest warrant against his name, this would flag as soon as his name went into system(s).

[Hazel]

Sadly not many of the children go on to lead happy lives the abuse may end but the (pyschological scars) stay with them for life!!!!

Especially in the Thai context when traditionally, children are taught to respect the elders and people in authority. And an Asian society when victims often see themselves as 'deserving' or 'shamed'. This very much reduces the chances of cases being reported.

[iBatch]

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Well done and respect to all the ICE agents, and those working with thim in SE Asia, and yes, well done to George W for such a fine bit of legislation.

+ Child Exploitation and Online Protection centre (Ceop), the UK's major child protection organisation play a big part in this too.

Edited March 12, 2011 by iBatch

[Stramash]

+ Child Exploitation and Online Protection centre (Ceop), the UK's major child protection organisation play a big part in this too.

Not enough so far. Need to follow US, Australia and Canada's example.

[Hazel]

Yes, I agree with Aus doing quite enough... Cos anyone volunteering / working in areas that involve being in direct contact with children will have to apply for a Working With Children Check.

[English_Bob]

Yes, I agree with Aus doing quite enough... Cos anyone volunteering / working in areas that involve being in direct contact with children will have to apply for a Working With Children Check.

Sadly though, that means Australian paedophiles will go to other countries, where the system is less efficient... or Thailand, where there IS no system.

[Hazel]

Sadly though, that means Australian paedophiles will go to other countries, where the system is less efficient... or Thailand, where there IS no system.

Bob, I have to agree with what you said.

I can understand people having multiple sex partners, the porn and adult sex industries. But 2 practices I have absolutely zero level tolerance for are adults having sex with children and humans training animals for and/or having sex (or should I say, sexually brutalising) animals. I know the last one sounds crazy or even funny (that's what I used to think too) until I once watched as part of "group fun" during teenaged days a VCD on humans with animals, in which an adult man is clearly brutalising a hen. The poor creature is making dying sounds as you can imagine. It is just not funny anymore. I demanded my friends to switch it off (although I was the one who persuaded one of the friends in the group who had watched it before to bring and screen it for all of us). I'm quite sure the hen either died or was permanently crippled after the show.

Nonetheless, regarding the paedophiles, I do believe that however deplorable and unexcusable their actions are, there is that 'hurted inner child' within each of them that needs healing.