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pandorea

Gay Monks in Thailand

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Recently I discussed (on FB) with some Thai friends about gay monks in Thailand and someone said,

Gay monks destroy the religious and they should be punished.
I found the comment difficult to digest.

I, personally don't see how gays monks destroy the religious. I don't think the lord Buddha forbids any gay to be come a monk. Buddhism in Thailand has been using in a very funny way for ages. How about those monks walking around with mobile phones? How about those fortune-teller monks? and so on. If we want to be square about this, should they be punished also? and in that case everyone should be punished because we all did something wrong according to the religious one way or another.

Have a happy Friday... don't forget to pray!

:D

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hmmmm .... r buddhist monks supposed to be celibate ?? i'm very dubious about any man (or woman) who chooses that kind of lifestyle .... off course it's worked extremely well for the catholic church down through the years so maybe they've got it right and i might be wrong !!!!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/533877-lampang-monk-disrobed-after-being-discovered-in-bed-with-woman/

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hahahaha .... don't know if this is correct ... but from that thread !!

Yes according to our Vinaua ( Monks rules) when a Bhikkhu penetrates the orrafic of woman,man,animal to the extent of a sesame sead he is automaticly disrobed.

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I was reading the book Phra Farang about a Brit who came to Thailand to become a monk. He had studied Tibetan Buddhism in England and then came to Thailand to finish becoming a monk. He writes about being conflicted about blessing washing machines, cars, etc. that the local people asked him to bless because there is absolutely nothing in Buddhism that gives monks any special powers. In fact, there are so many philosophical issues with someone who teaches not being attached to material goods blessing material goods.

The abbot told him that his job was to help the lay people practice Buddhism. If blessing someone's washing machine helps them follow in the path of Buddha, then he (Phra Farang) was actually providing a valuable service to his community.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that what should matter in a monk is his commitment to following Buddha's teachings and his willingness/ability to help others follow the Buddha as well. Would you rather have a gay monk who really goes out of his way to practice his religion and help others to follow as well, or a monk with no faults other than not really caring about the people who come to him for religious guidance?

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I should clarify by saying that if he's acting on his sexuality then that's not cool. If monks are supposed to be celibate then being gay does not change their vow to abstain from sex. Whether his temptations are men or women should be of little consequence if he doesn't act on them.

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hmmmm .... r buddhist monks supposed to be celibate ?? i'm very dubious about any man (or woman) who chooses that kind of lifestyle .... off course it's worked extremely well for the catholic church down through the years so maybe they've got it right and i might be wrong !!!!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/533877-lampang-monk-disrobed-after-being-discovered-in-bed-with-woman/

If I'm not mistaken, Buddha said that monks should be celibate because he felt it was one of the biggest distractions from attaining enlightenment. In Christianity, priests are celibate because Jesus was, according to known records, celibate. Again, if I'm not mistaken, I think the closest Jesus came to advocating celibacy was when he said something along the lines of, if being celibate helps you be closer to God, then be celibate. Paul was the one who advocated celibacy for people considering devoting their lives to Christ.

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My gay friends becames monks for a while atleast 3 months, for them, they wanted to make their moms proud. Many buddhist believe if their sons become monks they can go to heaven after death.

My gay friends could make it right, I went to visit one of them at the temple. At first I almost laugh at him when i saw him in monk robe... He look at me, tried his best to be in good manner as a monk should have. No laughing, just smile, and talk slowly.

So I never think it's about gender (or gender you act)

But there is a picture, which talk of the town, make ppl crazy. I don't know what to say more than if you think you can't do as the basic rules said just don't do it.

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In Christianity, priests are celibate because Jesus was, according to known records, celibate. Again, if I'm not mistaken, I think the closest Jesus came to advocating celibacy was when he said something along the lines of, if being celibate helps you be closer to God, then be celibate. Paul was the one who advocated celibacy for people considering devoting their lives to Christ.


actually (AFAIR) priests in the catholic religion (not ministers in other christian religions) weren't allowed to marry to prevent church property and/or land being bequethed to their kids !!! unfortunately nobody thought to tell the dirty pervs that didn't mean they were supposed to bugger little kids !!!

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actually (AFAIR) priests in the catholic religion (not ministers in other christian religions) weren't allowed to marry to prevent church property and/or land being bequethed to their kids !!! unfortunately nobody thought to tell the dirty pervs that didn't mean they were supposed to bugger little kids !!!

While that may have been a side benefit and one of the reasons this hasn't changed, the "idea" of staying celibate was really promoted by Paul before there was an actual church or any church property.

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While that may have been a side benefit and one of the reasons this hasn't changed, the "idea" of staying celibate was really promoted by Paul before there was an actual church or any church property.



The whole celibacy thing is quite a tangled web historically and morally speaking. Paul may have promoted it but it did not become a rule till the 4th or 5th Century after Christ. And I am pretty sure there were big differences in this issue between the Western and Eastern churches. Married priests were allowed but were meant to abstain though doubt there was any burden of proof. And certainly the practice spread outwards from Rome, so many places allowed marriage for a while after the 'rules' were made.

And really, Paul was a bit of an arsehole and was more interested in promoting his version of Christianity rather than the original doctrines.

For the Buddhist monks, it's a strange one, as Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion, but my view is that if any 'religious' person is doing 'good' work, then the celibacy question is immaterial...

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For the Buddhist monks, it's a strange one, as Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion, but my view is that if any 'religious' person is doing 'good' work, then the celibacy question is immaterial...

I somewhat feel that same but at the same time, those are the rules of being a monk. Why not let monks get stupid drunk at the local bar if they can break any rules because they're doing "good" work?

If you're going to become a monk, you gotta know celibacy comes with the territory. If you're not interested in leading a life of celibacy then don't become a monk. The whole point of becoming a monk is to devote your life to following Buddha's footsteps. If you want the ala carte version of Buddhism then skip being a monk and lead your life the way you want.

I think one of the issues that comes up with Thai Buddhism is that everyone is encouraged to become a monk for at least a few weeks. This means you get a lot of people in the monkhood that aren't really 100% committed. Some might even look at the life of a monk and think it's better than the life they're currently leading so they stay on following the religion/philosophy without actually having a passion or a drive.

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I somewhat feel that same but at the same time, those are the rules of being a monk. Why not let monks get stupid drunk at the local bar if they can break any rules because they're doing "good" work?

If you're going to become a monk, you gotta know celibacy comes with the territory. If you're not interested in leading a life of celibacy then don't become a monk. The whole point of becoming a monk is to devote your life to following Buddha's footsteps. If you want the ala carte version of Buddhism then skip being a monk and lead your life the way you want.

I think one of the issues that comes up with Thai Buddhism is that everyone is encouraged to become a monk for at least a few weeks. This means you get a lot of people in the monkhood that aren't really 100% committed. Some might even look at the life of a monk and think it's better than the life they're currently leading so they stay on following the religion/philosophy without actually having a passion or a drive.



Know what you're saying about all the other rules, but celibacy seems to be the controversial one across several beliefs. Too many doctrines have not 'moved with the times'.

What relevance does 1st Century Judaea have to my life today? Absolutely none.

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Hmmm, the celibacy thing did not become enshrined till later than I thought.

From wiki;

Celibacy was not required of popes, bishops, or priests in the early church. Popes, bishops, and priests married and sired children for over a thousand years after Christ[15] Celibacy was first written into law for all priests in the 12th century at the First Lateran Council (1123). Because clerics resisted it, the celibacy mandate was restated at the Second Lateran Council (1139) and the Council of Trent (1545–64).[16] Historically, priestly celibacy became law for all only through coercion and enslavement of clerical wives and children.[17] “The earliest decree in which the children [of clerics] were declared to be slaves and never to be enfranchised [freed] seems to have been a canon of the Synod of Pavia in 1018. Similar penalties were promulgated against wives and concubines (see the Synod of Melfi, 1189 can. Xii), who by the very fact of their unlawful connexion with a subdeacon or clerk of higher rank became liable to be seized by the over-lord”.[17]

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While that may have been a side benefit and one of the reasons this hasn't changed, the "idea" of staying celibate was really promoted by Paul before there was an actual church or any church property.


the "idea" of staying celibate may have been promoted by Paul, but it wasn't a requirement ... and in the early days (centuries) of the church many (most) priests were married and were having kids !!!!

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