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Marriage and Dowry...


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Well...dowry is thai culture , isn't it?

But many countries don't do it ?

I've heard that thai woman who want to marry with her foreign bf

got conflict about the dowry...

Guy : why i pay...why too high

Girl : Thai culture...

Are you married?

Please give case study of your marriage and dowry....if u coud tell

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its negotiated with the parents.

a lot of modern Thais don't require a sinsod

It traditionally goes to the wife as an insurance policy incase of divorce.

So if the marrage doesn't work the wife isn't left pennyless and out on the street.

Part of the sinsod should go into paying for the wedding,and the family might add to the sinsod to gain face by makeing it look like an even bigger pile of cash.Traditionally the sinsod consists of a few baht in gold,and money.

The amoun of sinsod is also based on status,and class

.A poor rice farmer's daughter would have a lower sinsod than a middle class business owner.

http://users.eastlink.ca/~agent86/index_files/Pic1.JPG

Pic grand pa "fukin falang",dad(aka mr. smithers)"ooooh money" mom "Who cares..1 down 3 to go" :P

if its a poor family or a family that only considers the farang as a source of income,then they will ask an outragous amount,and expect to keep it all.Then start demanding money every month.

In western culture their sinsod is when the best man kidnaps the bride at the reception,and then they pass the hat to pay the ransome to get the bride back.

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  • 2 months later...
its negotiated with the parents.

a lot of modern Thais don't require a sinsod

It traditionally goes to the wife as an insurance policy incase of divorce.

So if the marrage doesn't work the wife isn't left pennyless and out on the street.

Part of the sinsod should go into paying for the wedding,and the family might add to the sinsod to gain face by makeing it look like an even bigger pile of cash.Traditionally the sinsod consists of a few baht in gold,and money.

The amoun of sinsod is also based on status,and class

.A poor rice farmer's daughter would have a lower sinsod than a middle class business owner.

if its a poor family or a family that only considers the farang as a source of income,then they will ask an outragous amount,and expect to keep it all.Then start demanding money every month.

In western culture their sinsod is when the best man kidnaps the bride at the reception,and then they pass the hat to pay the ransome to get the bride back.

This is exactly what I understand too. When they stat asking for large sums of money (which to me is more than 100k Bht) then you know that the finanical qualites of the groom are more important than others... :)

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The pricing of the dowry and sinsot has to do with the family. Each family has social status. They require more in the payment, yet also it depends on how open the family is. I've witnessed families where the social status is great but they required from little dowry to no dowry.

Isn't it about love anyways? ;)

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The pricing of the dowry and sinsot has to do with the family. Each family has social status. They require more in the payment, yet also it depends on how open the family is. I've witnessed families where the social status is great but they required from little dowry to no dowry.

Isn't it about love anyways? ;)

It should be. Unfortunately, sometimes it isn't. Even if the girl is in love with the guy, I've seen instances where the parent(s) doesn't care, just wants the money and insists on some outrageous figure that they will then keep in full. It seems their love of money is stronger than their love for their daughter and her happiness. Once again, this is sometimes.

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I have heard this argument from both Thai friends and farang friends alike. I think that what bothers the farang involved is that they are expected to just accept everything, dowry included, that is labelled as "Thai culture." But a marriage means that both people have to make cultural compromises.

And it's not just that farang are cheap and don'T want to pay for the dowry.

Thai women should understand that for a western guy, paying money to be allowed to marry a woman goes against our cultural ideas. Yes, we pay -- we buy houses, gifts and so on so our gfs and wives can live in comfort. But when it comes to the family, if anything, they give the married couple help and money. In Thailand and many Asian countries, "pay money or you can't have our daughter" is the norm. But in the west, the idea of paying cash money to have a woman has a very negative nuance.

Farang should not be expected to accept the dowry "as Thai culture, or go home" -- and Thai people should not be told that "this is the American, Canadian, UK etc way and it's better to accept it." Just my humble two cents worth. :roll:

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If the sin sod is reasonable and appropriate, the man should respect his wife's and family's culture and pay it. Or he shouldn't be getting involved with a Thai or a woman from a different culture in the first place.

There are some falangs who are suprisingly unaware of this aspect of the culture before getting involved. If they are reasonable, they will come to understand.

It should only be an issue when someone is obviously being taken to the cleaners.

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The 'surprise' is often in the difference of money to be paid whether the girl would marry a thai guy or a farang. That's a complaint that is often heard amongst foreigners. Paying a few times more may be ok regarding where you come from, but not 10 to 100 times more.

The irony is in the fact that a big deal of the rest of the world has the image of thailand - the land of milk and 'honey'... where money will get you a girl for the night. A lot of Thais are not pleased with that image but often forget that when a foreigner needs to pay a dowry, he is uncomfortable as in fact it feels like he is 'buying' the girl. Even though the reasons are different, but this is still percieved as that around the world: go to thailand to buy a bride.

A lot of young thais (mainly metropolitan) feel uncomfortable having to take to their bf about this matter. They themselves feel like they are being 'bought' but pressure from the family is high.

I think there always needs to be a compromise. Here in Asia all evolves around family. In the west it's the inner family that is more important. If 2 people really love eachother for the right reasons then they can (hopefully) work it out with the family.

After all if the foreigner marries the girl, he will take good care of her and if the family acts in a normal way they become part of the bigger family and you care for them (=that does not mean, you pay everything for them!). A lot of times a family is better helped by helping them manage things, giving them ideas, finding them a job, ...

Tip: If the family ask consistently for more money, BACK OFF. No matter how much you love the girl... It will never end... It might even end with your wallet being completely empty and a divorce and the process may begin all over again. Not necessarily because of the girl but because of the parents.

These are just some opinions. They are not applicable to all thai families ;-)

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There are some falangs who are suprisingly unaware of this aspect of the culture before getting involved. If they are reasonable, they will come to understand.

It should only be an issue when someone is obviously being taken to the cleaners.

Agreed. When I posted, I had the "unreasonable" sides of both arguments on my mind. If I marry a Thai (and I almost did), I would have no problem paying the dowry -- but I've had a bit of time to adjust to Asian culture (15 years and still going strong).

But for those "unreasonable" families out there -- when a Thai partner is marrying into a non-Thai culture, in many cases the entire family will see at least the financial benefits of that for the duration of the marriage. If the family also expects that side of the cultural balance to be in their favour, it would make sense to show some understanding when it comes time to have the wedding and not try to shake down the "wealthy" farang -- something I've seen happen to friends.

Still, as you said earlier, I think that's only in some cases.

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Saying that a Farang should pay less in sinsot is stupid IMHO because in marriage (like love and life) there are no guarantees.

Yet the Sinsot is usually described to be at least in part a financial guarantee in case the guy sods off and goes for the "whorier" younger model. (Well put!) So if there are no guarantees, why are people paying the guarantee?

As for foreigners paying less -- I think that as Loburt pointed out, once people understand that part of "Thai culture" they will pay. The problem arises when foreigners are made to pay significantly more because the parents see the potential cash-cow waiting at their doorstep. Mooooo!

And in my earlier post, I was not arguing for foreigners to pay less. I was just saying that Thais can't just expect one-way understanding. When a newbie shows up and falls in love, being asked to pay for the bride is, as chrisghent also noted, perceived as "buying" a bride. Marriages are all about money all over the world -- but in the west, we still try and live in the fantasy that it's all just about love :wink:

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Look at it from the bright side... At least you'll already have paid the price of the divorce in advance :lol:

Could be the best of both worlds, for her:

-You pay the sinsot (conform to thai culture)

-You (still) pay a hefty divorce settlement, because she came to your country and got citizenship (conform to western culture)

As you say: :lol:

Now where's that thread about staying single? 8)

Oh, and as a general comment on the thread: "compromise." Do I pay it? Do I not? I'd expect any girl I was serious with to -seriously- consider the idea of me not paying a sinsot, just as seriously as I was considering the idea of me paying it.

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The "pay less" comment was directionless... I was extrapolating.

OK, I have NO idea what you just explained there, but as long as you do, it's OK I guess ;)

If you can't communicate over something that may become a dividing issue such as sinsot then my feeling is you shouldn't get married.

I couldn't agree with you more. The same can be said about other typically divisive issues such as kids, religion and other things that need to be sorted out before they blow up into divorce trials.

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Some Months ago a girl I'm good friends with (platonic but I know she has her eye on me) brought this up in conversation, "You know that Kevin (my buddy) paid 500,000 baht for dowry" "Oh really" says I. Thinking to myself where is this leading to? Anyhow she explains to me about Thai culture and the idea of a dowry for the prospective wife's family.. This girl is from a good middle class Thai/Chinese family, she goes on to say that if I ever wanted to marry her how much would I be willing to pay....Ummmmm :?: I thought "here we go" so explained about western culture and the fact that in some countries the wife's family pay the bridegroom to take the girl off their hands... This went down ok. I then explained the benefits of being married to me (there are some honest :lol: ) And the cost that I would incur. I said I would have to take over paying for her education,health insurance, car, clothes ,food etc etc.

To put the ball in her court (just for fun as the whole conversation was hyperthetical in my eyes) I said that her family would probably just be happy to unload her because of the finantial burden (her masters degree and car suck up a lot of family budget) Anyhow at the end of our discussion she says, "I will ask my Mum"

Anyhow I didn't think much more about the conversation. I know her Mum quite well and could imagine the discussion..How suprised was I on seeing the girl in question later that week.. The first sentence out of her mouth was, "I ask my Mum..She said free is OK.....Not need dowry...when you want to get married." ahahhaahahhaa.........I didn't know whether to laugh or cry..

So the whole point of this diatribe is that modern and pragmatic Thai families are often willing to come to an agreement...If as previous post have suggested they are steadfast in their demands for money...be very careful

After all would you really want to marry into a family that appears to value money far more than the future happiness of their daughter..

Money is not everything and many many sucessful marriages started with nothing...Love, hard work and the feeling of accomplishment that a successful partnership gives kept them on the right track...No fancy wedding or bulging bank balance can replace that.

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Well...dowry is thai culture , isn't it?

But many countries don't do it ?

I've heard that thai woman who want to marry with her foreign bf

got conflict about the dowry...

Guy : why i pay...why too high

Girl : Thai culture...

Are you married?

Please give case study of your marriage and dowry....if u coud tell

Dowry is not only Thai culture. The chinese, Indian, malays (as far as i know) do has this custom too.

The dowry could be in the form of jewellery such as gold (whole set from earrings to gold chain etc) or wedding dinner tables or even cash.....Usually the bride's family would not ask for how much in cash, rather leave it to the groom to decide. This is especially so in chinese family. (as far as i know, it was in Singapore and Malaysia traditional, not sure about china or Taiwan or Hongkong)

For indian, it is in the opposite, the bride will give dowry to the groom...

so guys it's not so bad getting a wife from India :twisted: :twisted: but the dowry could be in the form of goats or cows, not cash. :lol:

Nowadays in modern age, some couples will do away with this dowry kind of things. They would rather make it simple, as they feel that it's their wedding, not the parents.

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For indian, it is in the opposite, the bride will give dowry to the groom...

so guys it's not so bad getting a wife from India :twisted: :twisted: but the dowry could be in the form of goats or cows, not cash. :lol:

I'm gonna look for an Indian girl. I'm fresh out of goats.

Hmm, try explaining that one to the customs officer :shock:

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