English speaking and writing

[thaibel]

When browsing through the forums I saw a few times ppl making fun about some comments with incorrect English. This is always something that bothers me. I know my English is far from perfect, but I also know that learning to read and write another language is very difficult. As I'm older the second language I learned was French, as I live in a bilinguall country (Belgium = Dutch-French). English came only later in the secundary school (and if I still remember only 1 hour a week)and even there a lot of us choose German as their third language.

A few montshs ago I made a topic about the mods that was a little nasty or just one say naughty. Most of them didn't react. But one of them wrote a PM to me asking why I couldn't stand him. I explained him that it only was meant as fun and not to hurt him. ( I know it's very dangerous making jokes are fun in another language)

One day I was in Birma and I met a canadian couple (English) and they invited me to go to dinner with them. But I couldn't because I had some troubles with my intestines. I didn't know that word by than and I just said to them that I had problems with my innertubes . We had a lot of fun the next days with my innertubes. I mean it's not wrong to correct (I even appreciate that) or to have fun. But I don't like at all that someone really sneers to ppl about their poor English. Most of them who do this are native English men and mostly directed also to a man (never to a woman). I'm wondering if they speaks some other laguage as well? (I doubt that)

For a good understanding I never had that experience untill now (hiding myself from now on ). But I saw it a few times on forums.

What's your opinion on this?

[bobbyboy112003]

Hi Thaibel,

good point that you make, i agree.

I try to help someone with English if they need it. I don't find any reason to belittle someone for not being able to speak a certain language perfectly. Actually, i feel kinda lucky that many non native speakers of English, like you, can speak English.

Don't get angry about it so much Thaibel because the majority of Native speakers here of any language are very helpful. Language can be difficult to conquer, but ignorance is easy to conquer, if we want to!

p.s. if you want to laugh, i get people here correcting my English all the time, so much for native speaker, huh? lol

Take care,

Bobby

[khun_lung]

For most people at this web site English is not their first language and yet nearly all do very well and are able to communicate with no problems, and that's what's important. There are language sections in the site for those who want to get more serious about it. For those of us learning a second (or third or fourth) language, mistakes are inevitable and in fact mistakes are a great learning tool. People don't know they made a mistake until they're told and sometimes it can be very funny.

TF is a melting pot of many languages and many cultures and the fact that it comes together about 97% in English is remarkable and admirable!

The fact is that there are SOME native English speakers at this web site (and every other web site) who must have failed basic English and spelling exercises. They set a bad example, but what are we gonna do? Ban them?

It's a complicated subject, but for the most part this web site works BECAUSE of English, not in spite of it. That's pretty remarkable and a good thing.

[johnno]

But I don't like at all that someone really sneers to ppl about their poor English. Most of them who do this are native English men and mostly directed also to a man (never to a woman). What's your opinion on this?

well said thaibel.

i hate those bloody native english also

one good test match and they think they can play cricket. huh. fat chance. as long as my backside is pointed at the ground, they will never be able to play cricket.

thank you for writing this forum topic 8) :shock:

[thaibel]

I agree with both of you. MOST of the people are very helpful. A few times I had to PM some ppl to get the right explanation of an English word and always get a clear and good answer (thanks again, May, for the good website for explainig English words). I saw only a FEW ppl who really made fun about somebody's acknowledge of English. But the last time it was quite recently and I just felt like saying it. The ones who did that will know who and what I mean.

And indeed English is the most used language for changing ideas and talking on internet.

Eric

[khun_lung]

I agree with both of you. MOST of the people are very helpful. A few times I had to PM some ppl to get the right explanation of an English word and always get a clear and good answer (thanks again, May, for the good website for explainig English words). I saw only a FEW ppl who really made fun about somebody's acknowledge of English. But the last time it was quite recently and I just felt like saying it. The ones who did that will know who and what I mean.

And indeed English is the most used language for changing ideas and talking on internet.

Eric

Eric -

If you don't already have it, you might want to download the English dictionary/thesaurus program at this web site and it's excellent and FREE!

http://wordweb.info/free/

I use it almost every day!

[khun_lung]

The fact is that there are SOME native English speakers at this web site (and every other web site) who must have failed basic English and spelling exercises.

I failed english, but I'm doing a degree in Biochemistry....so UP URS shakespear!......

Anyway... the point is

Difference is good, and smart people wont pick on you for it...

Abi, your point is well-taken. And the fact is that you write better than some native English speakers here. Failing or passing is subjective and only depends on your instructor and his/her expectations, or worse. I just hope that you understood my point.

[i_love_som_tam]

I stopped speaking English when I joined this group. I now speak ThaiGlish.

[johnno]

I stopped speaking English when I joined this group. I now speak ThaiGlish.

same here, i now speak rubbish 8) :shock:

[khun_lung]

I'm one who don't SPEAK English!! Muwahahaha

So that "FARANGS" they will have to learn THAI !!!!!

8)

¾Ù´ÒÉÒä·ÂáÅéÇ ¾Ã´ÕäËäÃѺ

[bobbyboy112003]

I'm one who don't SPEAK English!! Muwahahaha

So that "FARANGS" they will have to learn THAI !!!!!

8)

I'm trying, i'm trying!!

[bobbyboy112003]

Awwwww khun_lung and bobbyboy112003 are sweet!!!

Got my kisses for learning Thai lei * KISS* KISS* :wink:

Khob khun mak mak krup! :oops:

[NigelBragg]

English appears to the main language of this site, and you have got to congratulate the majority for communicating (often very well) in what is maybe a 2nd or 3rd language. However we should still try to learn the Thai language nevertheless

[beneq]

OK here's something to think about ( something i picked up when i was doing the DTELFA) 70% of English spoken today are between non-native speakers! the implications for English language teaching are staggering- so the question what is good English or otherwise is moot! the only standard, apparently, is : tHe English spoken comprehensible or totally gibberish?

Benjamin

[inamorato25]

But I don't like at all that someone really sneers to ppl about their poor English. Most of them who do this are native English men and mostly directed also to a man (never to a woman). I'm wondering if they speaks some other laguage as well? (I doubt that)

What's your opinion on this?

First of all, your inntertubes story was great! I think that all second-language learners have a similar story where they have said something serious that gets laughed at. When I was first learning Japanese here, I used to get quite pis%ed off at it -- particularly considering that even back then, my Japanese was far better than the average Japanese person's English skills.

I think the problem is that unless a person has successfully learned a second (or third, etc) language, they can't really empathize with how difficult or frustrating (or fun, rewarding, confidence-boosting and empowering!) learning a foreign language can be.

As for English skills, as somebody pointed out earlier, native speakers often mock non-native speakers for their errors, but they often make just as many errors as the NNS. (Myself included, particularly when I don't proofread before posting So nobody is perfect, and it would be great if people could ENCOURAGE people to keep learning English, ÀÒÉÒä·Â, etc instead of taking a few empty pot shots at somebody's confidence in order to feel linguistically superior.

[Loburt]

I would never sneer at someone for making a mistake in a language that is not their native language. But occasionally they will say or write something and I can't help but laugh. It's not meant to be derisive, though.

In fact, when people ask me to help them with their English, or want to study, I always tell them you will learn faster if you can learn to laugh at yourself. Because each and every one of us when learning a new language will make some mistake that will be hilarious to native speakers.

If that gets you all upset and causes you to become shy about speaking, then your progress will be slow.

If you can roll with it and laugh too when your mistake is expalined to you, you will keep speaking and learn much faster.

The one thing that rubs me the wrong way, though, is when non-native speakers knowlingly mimic the illiterates of the language they are trying to learn because they think it's cool.

Like writing "da" instead of "the". Just makes me think the person either isn't very bright or is a slave to fads. Sorry, can't help it.

[macca_tirana]

I have never bothered to learn a second language.

At school i just did not bother and despite living in several countries i have always been happy with the fact some of the locals speak English.

Last year i started to learn some Thai from a book and cd set.

I felt confident on my own practising, but the 1st time i tried it for real..............i was terrified.

My guess would be that if someone sneers its maybe through ignorance.

Maybe they have never tried to talk a second language.

[Loburt]

Grammer is an accepted American spelling.

Bullshit.

[i_love_som_tam]

Grammer is an accepted American spelling.

Bullshit.

Bullshit is an accepted American rebuttal.

f*ckin'- a- right it is :wink:

[Loburt]

Now wait a second, Rob. You're out of line.

I never said it was pure, unadulterated bullshit.

In fact, it is bullshit contaminated by condescension and narcissim.

If you tried to pass of that load of crap as pure, unadultered bullshit then you would be facing the wrath of scores of unsatisfied customers.

[Dr_Sassy]

Since English is not my native tongue.. I will not argue with gurus

Will click 'close' and leave this thread quietly :oops:

bye bye

[macca_tirana]

Since English is not my native tongue.. I will not argue with gurus

Will click 'close' and leave this thread quietly :oops:

bye bye

Dont worry Sassy.

I am sure your very good with your tongue, natively speaking...of course

[Kitschiguy]

I've never known an English person to sneer/correct or otherwise bring in to question someone else's ability to speak English, except in order to help them. This is just my own personal experience and I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

I have been corrected on my Thai numerous times by Thai people, usually very helpfully, but sometimes I've been made to feel stupid. That could be because I was too sensitive to the matter. I have even been made fun of by Thai people because of my English accent!

It can be annoying for English people to constantly hear about the fact that most of us do not or cannot speak a second language. Everybody knows the reasons why so I won't bother with that, but I would like to mention that most of my family and friends can speak a second language. I myself am learning Thai, Japanese, Cantonese, Akha and some Putonghua.

I have attempted with varying degrees of success to learn some language and actually use it in every country I've travelled in - even Australia!

I'm not making any accusations or assumptions here. These are just my experiences. Except the Australia comment - that was a joke

[macca_tirana]

I would only correct their grammar if i was asked or if i had been chatting with them for some time i might ask if they would like me too help.

But then again my grammar is that crap i might be asking them for some help

[babyoiy]

I, as a Native Thai speaker, sometime still find Thai Language is quiet complicated. I can speak and write perfectly but in some ways I couldn't, such as how to talk/write to the Monk and the meaning of poem(applicable to both Thai and English Native Speakers, I believe there are many English Native Speakers who don't understand Shakespeare's poems).

Grammar is not the thing I can correct myself but spelling is the thing I try not to make any mistake. That's the best I could do.

Again, I, as a non-native english speaker, how could you made comments such as 'some of the posts and testimonials i read and receive are so bad, i dont understand at all. im constantly picking up very bad grammer mistakes,' when you were spelling the same incorrect 'grammer' for 4 times. I'm surprised! Well, I used to spell 'Government' as 'Goverment' till I was 20 years old but I'm Thai, excuse me!