Artist Soul Defined? Right brain vs left brain.

[zonacat]

Someone told me that ?Artist Soul? in Thai is: ?Phom-mee-jai. Rak-jit-ta-gone.? A Swiss person would say: ?kunstler seele.?But exactly HOW does one truly define an "Artist Soul?" Is it a person who sees the world with alternative, bohemian eyes? Perhaps it comes down to what exactly is seen with one's eyes. If a person sees another person who stands out in some way, (beautiful, stone-faced, gruff, rotund, etc...) as a would-be statue in a museum, that person might have a "Sculptor's soul." Some of us might see the Grand Canyon and see a potential painting or a postcard or a snapshot. This could be that a person has a ?painter's soul? or a ?photographer's soul.? A person who has the ?soul of a writer? sees two people interacting in unusual ways in a coffee shop or an airport and he/she wants to write a short story based on what he or she saw.

I see comedy and laughter in literally 94% of what I see. Last month in Bangkok, there was a plethora of hilarious "movie moments" abounding in my head. Even crossing the street. Imagine me trying cross the street (with cars zooming around a corner on the NON-RIGHT side of the road) with nervous apprehension? Finally, a young, school girl saw my hyperactive brain and hesitant body language trying to cross the street. She took my hand and helped me. I was so touched. It was downright scary to walk across a busy street in Bangkok! The first few days anyway.

I live near the University of Arizona. Pedestrians have the right of way. If a car does not stop, it is a big, big fine. Anyway, seemingly every moment in Bangkok felt like a comedy movie scene. This is the ENFP (Extroverted iNtuitive Feeling Perceiving) in me. A need to verbalize even the most banal of stories with others. An INFP (Introverted iNtuitive Feeling Perceiving) might also see similar scenes in their head, but then they might not have a need to share it with their friends verbally. They might write it as a short story though.

Finally, herein lies the comparison and the final, collective gist of this whimsical ?Forum Post.? Of course ?it is a given? that a right-brained, Abstract-Random, ENFP brain type is usually blessed with an artist soul. But what are some traits of the polar opposite? What attributes comprise the basic assemblage of a left-brained, Concrete-Sequential, ISTJ (Introverted Sensing Thinking Judging) brain type? Yes, we know they make great Government accountants. They have fun with numbers. They actually enjoy sitting behind a desk in a small, lugubrious office with a 10-key calculator and having zero interactions with people. But why is it that they generally do not see and feel what the artist feels and sees? If they saw lady on a bus with luminescent eyes, they might not see a potential painting waiting to happen. They might not see some urban youths doing a new dance on Venice Beach as a possible movie moment. Do these people rarely have deep, meaningful ?peak experiences? with buzzing with profound, esoteric significance? If not, can the ?artist soul perception? be cultivated? Does ?smelling the roses? feel unnatural to them? Exactly what inspires them throughout the day? Surely, it can?t be numbers on a calculator can it?

IMO, it comes down to this: WE NEED LEFT BRAIN PEOPLE TO FIND CURES FOR CANCERS AND TO DO OUR TAXES. BUT WE ALSO NEED RIGHT BRAIN PEOPLE TO ENTERTAIN AND ENLIGHTEN. It is what makes the world go around. Not everyone can be an artist, right? I have met people in my life that have actually gone an entire day WITHOUT laughter. They have allowed a day go by without experiencing something that they deem profound that happened to them. They have gone weeks, even months without ?smelling the roses.? Is it wrong for me to feel sorry for these people? It is hard to be in someone else?s brain, I know. Yes, we are all different. But still, when I see a quiet, seemingly unfriendly accountant type who does not smile or laugh or smell the roses, I confess, I DO FEEL SORRY FOR THEM. A life without passion is a life unlived. I wish that others could see and feel what I feel sometimes. AESTHETIC PERCEPTIONS breed happy brain chemistry. I AM HAPPY. I want to say ?Hello? to every person I see on the street, but I abstain (or squelch the urge) sometimes. Some people simply think it is just too unhip to connect with a random, happy stranger by returning a smile and a genteel ?good morning.? But damn! I sure wish I knew WHY. What makes these people tick? I want to know!

[eagle]

I appreciate both sides of my brain although I'm lost in one side alot of the time

[ttesta]

For ages, people have been looking for the human soul. Where was it located? Where does it go when the human being dies? Etc ? They found anything ? because there is nothing to find.

Now, science has taken over and the quest has shifted from the soul to the personality or ego. Basically the same story is done over again. But now it is all in the brain. Left brain, right brain ? anyway, my personality is a result of a bunch of interacting neurons whose activity ads up to what I am. In other words, ?I? am still a ghost in a box.

The point is, it is all nonsense. It is a wrong interpretation of science. Even in physics, the most fundamental science of all, the same problem manifest. You can have beautiful working theories but as soon as you are using them for explaining the functioning of the world, you are lost ? You always end up in a never ending sequence of concepts and theories ? there is always something left to explain.

The point is, the manifestation, the apparent materialistic world, is NOT the seat of functioning. It is a manifestation of it. Subjectivity, the apparent ghost in everything is utterly absent, though at the centre of everything. Physics struggles with this phenomenon since the introduction of quantum mechanics and hasn?t solved it. But there is no solution in science. Only the right interpretation brings you out.

So, to think (brain activity!) that the brain is the seat of personality is a serious intellectual error. The argument is very subtle -it?s more like a zen koan- but give it a try. If the brain would be the seat of subjectivity, than who or what is making these statements about the brain?

[robbie36]

Whoopee!! Saladin - the Scutfargus of Buddhism!!

[chrispilok]

For ages, people have been looking for the human soul. Where was it located? Where does it go when the human being dies? Etc ? They found anything ? because there is nothing to find.

Now, science has taken over and the quest has shifted from the soul to the personality or ego. Basically the same story is done over again. But now it is all in the brain. Left brain, right brain ? anyway, my personality is a result of a bunch of interacting neurons whose activity ads up to what I am. In other words, ?I? am still a ghost in a box.

The point is, it is all nonsense. It is a wrong interpretation of science. Even in physics, the most fundamental science of all, the same problem manifest. You can have beautiful working theories but as soon as you are using them for explaining the functioning of the world, you are lost ? You always end up in a never ending sequence of concepts and theories ? there is always something left to explain.

The point is, the manifestation, the apparent materialistic world, is NOT the seat of functioning. It is a manifestation of it. Subjectivity, the apparent ghost in everything is utterly absent, though at the centre of everything. Physics struggles with this phenomenon since the introduction of quantum mechanics and hasn?t solved it. But there is no solution in science. Only the right interpretation brings you out.

So, to think (brain activity!) that the brain is the seat of personality is a serious intellectual error. The argument is very subtle -it?s more like a zen koan- but give it a try. If the brain would be the seat of subjectivity, than who or what is making these statements about the brain?

That's interesting. But if the brain is separate from consiousness then how come when the doctor shuts down my brain with powerful anaesthetics, consiousness ends and even when I regain consiousness no memory of anything? Seems like no brain, no consiousness, no soul. What am I missing?

[ttesta]

That's interesting. But if the brain is separate from consiousness then how come when the doctor shuts down my brain with powerful anaesthetics, consiousness ends and even when I regain consiousness no memory of anything? Seems like no brain, no consiousness, no soul. What am I missing?

yes... but who knows this? Who knows " ...when the doctor shuts down my brain with powerful anaesthetics ..."

THAT can never be a product of your brain, can it?

[zonacat]

chrispilok:

>>>That's interesting. But if the brain is separate from consiousness then how come when the doctor shuts down my brain with powerful anaesthetics, consiousness ends and even when I regain consiousness no memory of anything? Seems like no brain, no consiousness, no soul. What am I missing?<<<

Haven't you ever been fully conscious of something but then had zero recall? There are many cases of this happening. People who have had hallucinations from 106 degree fever. I am sure last Friday (Saint Paddy's Day) there were quite a plethora of people who had a BLACKOUT from excess alcohol consumption. There may have been witnesses who filled in the blanks for a person who had too much to drink. Just because a person has no memory of the evening does not mean that they were not conscious. hell, they might have even been "the life of the party" but still they might have zero memory. I think that "no memory" is NOT the same as "no consiousness." To say, no brain is the same as no soul is an assumption. No one knows for sure what happens when we die. There have been books written by those who claim they were in the near-death zone. If the experience of the soul is beyond the comprehension of the brain, then of course we would have no memory. The experience of the soul might be in a higher realm, hence no comprehension of this experience as we normally understand things.

[ttesta]

Consciousness doesn't depend on what happens. But whatever happens depends on consciousness otherwise who would be there to witness if something had happened or not.

And also being born and dying are events depending on consciousness. Where does the knowledge that you did not exist 200 years ago come from? You don't need somebody else to tell you, do you?

[ttesta]

"If the experience of the soul is beyond the comprehension of the brain, then of course we would have no memory. "

But how can you say that there is no memory? Knowing that there is no memory is also a memory, no?

[chrispilok]

chrispilok:

>>>That's interesting. But if the brain is separate from consiousness then how come when the doctor shuts down my brain with powerful anaesthetics, consiousness ends and even when I regain consiousness no memory of anything? Seems like no brain, no consiousness, no soul. What am I missing?<<<

Haven't you ever been fully conscious of something but then had zero recall? There are many cases of this happening. People who have had hallucinations from 106 degree fever. I am sure last Friday (Saint Paddy's Day) there were quite a plethora of people who had a BLACKOUT from excess alcohol consumption. There may have been witnesses who filled in the blanks for a person who had too much to drink. Just because a person has no memory of the evening does not mean that they were not conscious. hell, they might have even been "the life of the party" but still they might have zero memory. I think that "no memory" is NOT the same as "no consiousness." To say, no brain is the same as no soul is an assumption. No one knows for sure what happens when we die. There have been books written by those who claim they were in the near-death zone. If the experience of the soul is beyond the comprehension of the brain, then of course we would have no memory. The experience of the soul might be in a higher realm, hence no comprehension of this experience as we normally understand things.

Well you make a good point here. I have had that happen to me. When I was a kid I was driving with my family along a coastline. My father told us we would pass a beach with black sand. I was curious to see it but I fell asleep. I woke up when we stopped for lunch. I said why didn't you wake me up when we passed the beach with the black sand! Everybody looked at me like I'm nuts. What? I said. You were the one who spotted it and told everyone to look! they said... Weird...

But the "left-brain" thinker in me as you would have it, would attribute this to some "brain activity". But I take your point about memory proving nothing. Since I don't want to put a bullet in my head to find out for sure I think this is an impossible question to answer. Again the logical-positivist left-brain thinker that I am.

Incidentally, you needn't feel sorry for me...I occasionally laugh and smelling the roses feels perfectly natural to me :wink: