What is a 'Tom'?

[The Punisher]

Ok, you see them everywhere, often with rather attractive g/f's, but what exactly is a Tom?

Now ladyboy's I understand (I think). They dress up, or even undergo surgery, to look like and be like women. To make things less confusing, they are described using feminine pronouns. Fairly straight forward. But what about Toms? :?

The dress like men, groom themselves to look like men, and their outward behaviour copies that of men. Do they however think of themselves as men in the same way ladyboys think of themselves as women? Do they use masculine pronouns etc to describe themselves? If so, that makes sense, end of story.

However, if they do not think of or describe themselves as men (which is what I suspect), then why mimick the outward apperance and behaviour of men?

If there are any TF Toms out there who can clear this up for me I would appreciate it, but all insights are welcome.

[MikeAussieGuy]

I have a friend who is a Tomboy.

Very classy person, from a nice and well known family.

She is a lesbian, but not of the "lipstick" variety. I guess she is the equivelant of the "male" in a relationship assuming what it is that a male does in a man girl relationship. The one thing I have noticed is the number of Tomboys around these days, seems to be a lot more coming out and not afraid to show their sexual preference, and their gf also arent shy to show it either.

Anyway good luck to all to be who and what they want to be.

[kungnoi]

He is old Admin? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[khun_lung]

To put it simply, the term "Tom", especially in the Thai language, implies someone who is female and plays the dominant male role as in "Butch" and is lesbian.

In English,the term "Tom" has a slightly different meaning as it implies a girl who simply behaves more like a boy than a girl without regard to sexual preferences (tomboy).

The word stems from male animals such as a tom turkey or a tomcat.

[The Punisher]

With all due respect to the imparted wisdom above, none of it answers my question

Do Toms describe themselves as men, or think of themselves as men, in the same way lady boys think of themselves as women?

If not, then what social, cultural, or biological factors motivate them to present themselves and behave as if they were in fact men? :?

[khun_lung]

With all due respect to the imparted wisdom above, none of it answers my question

Do Toms describe themselves as men, or think of themselves as men, in the same way lady boys think of themselves as women?

If not, then what social, cultural, or biological factors motivate them to present themselves and behave as if they were in fact men? :?

In a word, no. When we think of "ladyboys" or krathoeys we think of a male dressed as a female with makeup, etc. I have never seen a female masquerading as a male (in Thailand) though such people may exist.

One of my close friends is a tom. She always dresses the same, t-shirt and jeans. You might say she looks boyish by the way she walks and dresses but she absolutely considers herself as female. I am the only male friend that she has that isn't gay, probably partly because of my age. I recently said to her, "I am probably the olny guy that could give you flowers and get away with it!". We both had a good laugh! Oh yeah, and I took her to see Brokeback Mountain!

[The Punisher]

Cheers Mike. Do you also know why they choose to dress and act like men? I ask because while in some ways in makes sense, in others it does not.

My Aunt in NZ is a butch lesbian, but she doesnt dress or act like a man. At most I would say her dress sense is very neutral... I even saw her wear a dress once which was cause for all sorts of family jesting. In short, while she is not a girly girl, she is not masculine either.

I see the toms here wearing ties and suits sometimes, breasts seem to be flattened in apperance as much as possibl, and generally acting like men. It just seems kind of strange to me. If there is a logical reason, it would be interesting to know, dont you think?

[khun_lung]

Cheers Mike. Do you also know why they choose to dress and act like men? I ask because while in some ways in makes sense, in others it does not.

My Aunt in NZ is a butch lesbian, but she doesnt dress or act like a man. At most I would say her dress sense is very neutral... I even saw her wear a dress once which was cause for all sorts of family jesting. In short, while she is not a girly girl, she is not masculine either.

I see the toms here wearing ties and suits sometimes, breasts seem to be flattened in apperance as much as possibl, and generally acting like men. It just seems kind of strange to me. If there is a logical reason, it would be interesting to know, dont you think?

I can't speculate as to why they choose this dress and behavior. In the case of my friend, she admits that when she was a kid she was a tomboy and played sports with the boys more than doing girly things. I suppose looking feminine is not in her comfort zone even though she is tiny (153cm.) and very cute.

She's a licensed tour guide and she had to pass the TAT course and exam to become licenced. One day her instructor announced that there would be a field trip to the airport and that the males had to wear dress shirts and ties, and that females had to wear skirts. She protested and told the instructor she would boycott the event if she couldn't wear slacks but he wouldn't back down and told her a boycott would mean a serious deduction on her score needed to pass the course. She phoned me and asked what I would do.

Well, to make a long story short I sent her an SMS the next morning and asked if she was at the airport with a skirt and she replied (I can remember exactly), "Yup! Wearing my sis skirt. It's the rarest thing! 555"

[MikeAussieGuy]

Cheers Mike. Do you also know why they choose to dress and act like men? I ask because while in some ways in makes sense, in others it does not.

My Aunt in NZ is a butch lesbian, but she doesnt dress or act like a man. At most I would say her dress sense is very neutral... I even saw her wear a dress once which was cause for all sorts of family jesting. In short, while she is not a girly girl, she is not masculine either.

I see the toms here wearing ties and suits sometimes, breasts seem to be flattened in apperance as much as possibl, and generally acting like men. It just seems kind of strange to me. If there is a logical reason, it would be interesting to know, dont you think?

To quote my friend, never would she consider herself a guy, she is the "opposite" female in a female to female relationship.

Far removed from a ladyboy, who are really females in a mans body until they change their body via hormones etc. to a females body, a Tom is a girl who chooses to be a girl with the mannerisms of a man to disgtinguish herself from her female partner, or something like that.

Clear as mud right?

[Guest]

Yo!

Tom is here.

One of my faves dish 'Tom Yum Khung'.

or u mean Tom who was admin of TF. :wink:

okie....

When i was 12-15yrs, i studied at a girls school and many tom or tomboy there. Toms have gf and we called the couple of them as 'Tom & dy'.

Dy mean girl who has tomboy as boyfriend.

Tom are not bi, they don't like men (if they are real tom).

i had one tomboy, in school she was tomboy but oneday out of school, by chance i saw her was in the mall, she wear mini skirt playing ice-skating while i wear jeans. she was trying to avoid me but too late i saw.

Kewllll.... i think she was radd more than me, she wasn't real. noone hurted and we didn't say good-bye cause after that day i didn't talk to her again.

when i went back to old school's party, i have met some friends who i knew that they were tomboy, now they become beauty, having boyfriends and some of them already married with men.

hmmmm... :roll:

[The Punisher]

Mikes and Jib,very interesting, with insight to be gained from all 3 posts.

That opposite in a female female relationship makes sense at first, but then it doesn't. Why does there need to be an opposite? Or why does one need to distinguish from the other?

I wonder if it is not just a social norm that is expected of girl-girl couples in Thailand. While I accept that some Toms are beautiful, the vast majority appear to be less attractive than their other halves making me wonder whether this hasn't got something to do with them making the Tom, as opposed to 'Dy', choice (Dy as in Dyke? Hmm). Of course some might argue it is not a choice at all (nuture vs nature etc)

In the west it is the 'Lip-Stick' lesbians who seem to be in vogue at the moment. That is, lesbian couples who beautify themselves in the same way a straight women would. There is no way of knowing they are lesbians unless they tell you, or you see them kissing on the dance floor (Would Deester or Aphrodite like to commment on this last point?)

[Guest]

lesbian = gay (in love the same gender but we don't know till we ask)

tom, tomboy = ladyboy (showed by act and costume too)

tomdy, tom & dy = a couple.

dy (just dy not 'dyke' nor 'die') = maybe bi-sexual,

or maybe they like tomboy only.

dy seem like the man who looks manly but love only ladyboy.

when i was 14yrs, i thought tomboys didn't know how to kiss.

sh1t! didn't know who teach them kissing, they kissed like the biten of an ant.

what genders they are, hearts all they have. observation from my friends, mostly i found tomboys and ladyboys alway be cheated and hurted.

pity :cry:

[Dominique355]

A "tom" ? Isn't that a soup as in Kao tom, tom yam, tom ka?

[friendlyCat]

I think Khun lung has it exactly right.

Not sure how to explain it, but in almost all relationships there is one playing a more masculine role and one playing a more femine role....

[OutOfOrder]

its just a similar thing as gay men.... why do u have to make simple things difficult???????