Being 'greng-jai'

[khun_lung]

When Dr_Sassy wrote about "What Thai people are known for", she used the term "- being 'greng-jai'

So in all fairness, I begin a new forum thread on this topic because being - 'greng-jai' has a very abstract meaning in Thai and cannot be directly translated.

I'll start things off by saying that being 'greng-jai' means "to have consideration for something about someone", which in itself is abstract and it goes far deeper than that.

Discuss!!! lol

[khun_lung]

be afraid of offending

Yes, Kai, but it will take more than one or two examples to get people to understand. Greng jai can only be explained by giving examples. And I want to leave it to Thai people to do that, not me.

[khun_lung]

to be afraid of offending (one),

to be considerate of another's feeling

from my dictionary kha :wink:

no example..Thai people known that well 8)

Yes, of course Thai people know that well. But this is the "speaking Thai" forum section and the purpose of me introducing this particular subject is to help non-Thai speakers understand the meaning of "greng jai". It is a wonderful phrase and we should have something like it in English, but we don't. That's why it has to be explained by example.

[Dr_Sassy]

I once asked my british teacher who had lived in Thailand for many years. (of coz he married Thai girl and left BKK ages)

He explained that being greng-jai means you are reluctantly agree to do it, hesitate before doing it, or doing it without enthusiasm.

"It" mentioned above can be, for example;

- {Dr_Sassy} didnt call {khun_lung} at 4 a.m. to ask him if he could help her translating one difficult English sentense as it could be an inappropriate time to call at that moment.

- I'm afraid to borrow my new friend some amount of money to pay for my international phone bills :oops:

- Ask strangers to gimme a vote (of coz I know Wallace digitally, that doesnt count)

- Reluctant to ask boss to posepone the meeting this afternoon coz you have no better excuse than 'checking TF inbox'

Well... I think whatever thought that stops you from doing something that might possibly make other people feel unconfortable...is the thought of "greng-jai".

I think it makes sense to consider the action/reaction before people do something. Disturbing people at the wrong time is considered as having bad manners... but there are times I get annoyyed becoz some people feel "greng-jai" for no reason.

[eagle]

to be afraid of offending (one),

to be considerate of another's feeling

from my dictionary kha :wink:

no example..Thai people known that well 8)

Yes, of course Thai people know that well. But this is the "speaking Thai" forum section and the purpose of me introducing this particular subject is to help non-Thai speakers understand the meaning of "greng jai". It is a wonderful phrase and we should have something like it in English, but we don't. That's why it has to be explained by example.

westerners are not worried about offending. I admire the east has more thought about respecting others at least this is my impression ......

[superskater]

The Japanese have a similar concept

but unlike Thais they are considerate of how other people might react 99 too 100% of the time

Thais are often rude and inconsiderate I think

and such terms like greng jai are more an ideal or something that they

practice sometime with some people

I wish Thais were more considerate like the Japanese all the time

I try to be considerate but sometimes I just have to call a spade a spade

[khun_lung]

Sassy hit upon an important point when she said something about the "boss". Thai people will "greng jai" their boss or supervisor even when they know the boss is wrong by not disagreeing, not causing any problem and in fact "saving face" (¹éÒᵡ - another topic).

Greng jai has many meanings and it's why lots of examples have to be given for a Westerner to begin to understand the concept of what it is.

I'm tired, going to sleep now. But keep discussing! hehehe

G'nite!

[Ler]

thanks a lot...

now i understand its meaning ^__^

in case anyone wants to learn its chinese equivalent, it's: 不好意思 (bhu hao yee sih)

55555+

[laragirl]

thanks a lot...

now i understand its meaning ^__^

in case anyone wants to learn its chinese equivalent, it's: 不好意思 (bhu hao yee sih)

55555+

wow. you're digging up some real old stuff here. lol. bored?

[beej]

**** me I thought Mike had came back to life!!!

[SweetieBabie]

was thinking the same thing... dead man's thread at midnight... Brrrrrrrrrrrr :pale:

[z123321MB]

I almost shock ohhh this created long time ago phew....!

[LakeGeneve]

I sort of assumed that Ler dug this up due to the letter to the Ed in yesterdays Bangkok Post which was a response to Khun Andys take on greng jai last week in Brunch (03/05/09);

GRENG JAI IN CONTEXT

With regard to Andrews Biggs ''The great greng jai gripe'' published in Brunch last Sunday, and plenty of his previous writing, even though Andrew excels in his knowledge of the Thai language he misses out on the essence of greng jai.

Andrew has constantly translated the term as consideration, as in consideration of others. The real essence and historical background is much deeper, and a more realistic translation is obligation. Take away the basic kind of greng jai: ''I don't want to eat, I feel greng jai'' (translation _ I feel a bit guilty as he always pays) and see the far deeper effect upon society as in ''I don't want to marry her but I greng jai my mother,'' or ''I don't really want to do it, but I greng jai him,'' (an elder). This kind of greng jai, the most important kind, is obligation and not consideration.

Andrew may have written tens of thousands of words on the subject, but he has failed to identify the two key historical sources of this most important kind of greng jai. This first obligation towards elders, as in patron-client relationship, began during Siam's feudal or sakdina (field of power) era where every division of society was ranked into a caste system.

Even though the sakdina system was abolished with the events of 1932, the idea of obliging elders or those of a higher social standard is thoroughly embedded in the Thai psyche. As the saying goes: Understand sakdina and you understand Thailand.

Secondly, the idea of greng jai towards, for example, parents, is very much Chinese in origin and rooted in the idea of obligation towards one's elder blood relations _ ie as rather similar to the above sakdina-type psyche, it's payback time to those who have helped put the bread on the table and the clothes on your back.

Stephen Cleary

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/16440/a-forgiving-place-for-monks