cs3602001 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I have just been reading a section of another forum topic and Zeus got me thinking (thinking for me can be dangerous). Anyway, I wondered what peoples views are on the death penalty. I know this topic can muster up a lot of moral and philisophical quesitons, so I am interested to hear what people think, including the way the "sentence" is carried out, Lethal Injection, Electric Chair, Gas Chamber, Bullet. How should this penalty be served, who "deserves" to be killed, if anyone? Let's have some thoguhts..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I have just been reading a section of another forum topic and Zeus got me thinking (thinking for me can be dangerous).Anyway, I wondered what peoples views are on the death penalty. I know this topic can muster up a lot of moral and philisophical quesitons, so I am interested to hear what people think, including the way the "sentence" is carried out, Lethal Injection, Electric Chair, Gas Chamber, Bullet. How should this penalty be served, who "deserves" to be killed, if anyone? Let's have some thoguhts..... killing another human being is just plain wrong i know it is very emotional seeing what some sick f**ks have done, but i personally couldn't pull the trigger, flick the switch or press the plunger. i just think we demean urselves as human beings if we kill another human being. and b4 ppl think i am "soft" on child molesters, murders or whatever i think death is sometimes to easy for them. i think the rest (and i mean the rest) of their lives in a concrete cell with just enough sustanence to keep them alive would give the bastards more time to reflect on what they have done. problem is they serve their time in (a relatively) soft environment and then get released to offend again. if they don't get out they can't do it again. simple i reckon !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartass Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 a rapist should be put in an electric chair. or better chop *it* off. have him tortured for the rest of his life in a porn library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedTriple Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 It's a tricky subject. I would always be worried about the people who are wrongly convicted. But having said that, if it was possible to be 100% sure if someone was guilty, then yes I think there are crimes that should carry the death penalty. Sex crimes against children would probably be the top of my list, and if it was my kids, I could easily pull the trigger. We're far too soft in the UK, life should mean life, and life in solitary confinment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 burden of proof is the tricky part. also i think the appeals system as if functions in the US is seriously f**ked, the death row convict can sit on death row for a decade or more knowing he or she is gonna die. that to me is unjust torture. in principle however, i believe that, as barbaric as the death penalty is, it could have a role in a society. however, the ppl who should be put to death in my opinion are the ones who have not only committed the most heinous crimes, but are a very real threat to do so again if they ever get out. yeah there's life in prison but unless you isolate these sickos, they will mingle with the rest of the prison population, and those guys got enough bad influences. treat them like a cancer. cut them out. but then it all comes full circle back to burden of proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickbseattle Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I love the death sentence, I wish we(the USA) used it much more often. These people do care about their own life for the most part, which is way the Green River Killer in seattle, whom killed 50+ women, agreed to show police were all the bodies were in exchange for life in prison. The real horror of many people on death row is how many people they have messed up, most of these guys arent 1 time criminals but have long documented histories of attacks, rapes, robberies, etc. I doubt most people really know how many violent criminals walk the streets in the USA, but its pretty damn troubling. Recently, my states genius court ruled that IF some criminal killed you while he raped you, robbed you, beat you, etc but he did not INTEND to murder you, well thats not murder its just assault, so hundreds of murders will now be released or early released. I think more in terms of Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a tooth. You kill, u should also be killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomicflower Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 i only support death penalty if teh conviction goes to the right person and if it's as brutal and painful and fearful as much as what s/he has done to his/her victim(s). i also think that even if it's evenly threatening but this justice system will never ever be able to make it fair to the victims, coz the deadmenl always have chance to say goodbye to his/her family, to have a redemption, to be with a priest and have a several session for spiritual advices. while those innocent victims have never had a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 DAMN, jane.. :shock: hereinafter, u r ... MS. VENGEANCE :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomicflower Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 celticcola do you mind writing an academic paper for me? 25 pgs A4, at least.... c'mon! im just kidding la... and Zeus!...yeah! i am MS. VENGEANC dont get me med!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Fear not. I will post my a4 plus size thesis on this subject tomorrow so that should make everything clear for everybody! If the convicts on death row could get their lawyers to submit appeals as long as your posts, their executions would be postponed for at least two years while the judges read through them. Maybe you should think of that as a sideline business. j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs3602001 Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Regarding Commandment 6, I found this little passage: "This Commandment is not absolute. Not all murders are forbidden. Hebrew Scriptures specify many grounds for which this commandment is to be ignored, and a guilty party executed. Persons found guilty of temple prostitution, engaged women who are seduced by a man other than her future husband, women who practice black magic, some women who are raped in urban areas, children who cursed their parents, some non-virgin brides, Jews who collect firewood on Saturday to keep their families from freezing, persons proselytizing in favor of another religion, persons worshiping a deity other than Yahweh, strangers who entered the temple, etc; all were to be executed". So even from a biblical perspective murder and execution can be justified, I mean it was carried out thousands of times, according to the bible. I guess, for me, the death sentence can seem somewhat macabre, meticulously planning the killing of another human being, following a set of rules, making sure they are carried out to the latter. Then again, I try to imagine being on the receiving end one of these horrendous crimes, or more realistically if one of my family were the victim, how would that change my view of the death penalty, I am quite sure a lot of liberals out there would have swift attitude changes if a member of their own family were a victim of such a disgusting crime, that in the eyes of the law warrants the death penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs3602001 Posted January 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 I am quite sure a lot of liberals out there would have swift attitude changes if a member of their own family were a victim of such a disgusting crime, that in the eyes of the law warrants the death penalty. quite true, but on the other hand i bet a hell of a lot of pro death penalty supporters would have a change of heart if a member of their family was tried, convicted and sentenced to death for something that they knew full well they were innocent of but were powerless to do anything to stop the sentence being carried out. Andy (I think that's your name ), Good spin on things, however your scenario woudl be hard to replicate, I mean the family knowing "full well" the criminal was innocent. However, if a pro-death penalty supporter had a family member convivted of a sick crime, their views still may be changed by the fact a member of their own family was on death row and awaiting execution. I think this really is an interested line of debate......for example, how woudl you feel if your brother/husband/wife/sister, whatever, was convicted of a real nasty, nasty sick crime....shoudl they die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs3602001 Posted February 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Has anyone read John Grisham, well not read him but his books? Although works of fiction they do give a good insight to different aspects of the death penalty from different angles. "A time to kill", "the chamber", both quite cool, I would type more about them but at the moment I am tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 ANDY: that was interesting as hell, i have a similar attitude toward both the death penalty (dont think in principple it's an abomination just in practice) and halle berry (i'd tell her i was hitler and pol pot rolled into one if i knew it'd turn her on and i'd catpure them panties). that was really really long... but needed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 and halle berry (i'd tell her i was hitler and pol pot rolled into one if i knew it'd turn her on and i'd catpure them panties). Seems we have to blaime the women for all the crimes 8) Who was behind Pol Pot :?: not all the crimes, just all mine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs3602001 Posted February 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 I was reading about the Gas Chamber and how inhumane executions can become, it is considered a strange and unusual punishment in California and has been outlawed. Have people on death row waived eighth amendment rights? Or shoudl they be allowed a humane death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 I was reading about the Gas Chamber and how inhumane executions can become, it is considered a strange and unusual punishment in California and has been outlawed.Have people on death row waived eighth amendment rights? Or shoudl they be allowed a humane death? i think they should be allowed a humane death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs3602001 Posted February 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Jimba, In an earlier post I found some stuff regarding Commandment 6: Regarding Commandment 6, I found this little passage: "This Commandment is not absolute. Not all murders are forbidden. Hebrew Scriptures specify many grounds for which this commandment is to be ignored, and a guilty party executed. Persons found guilty of temple prostitution, engaged women who are seduced by a man other than her future husband, women who practice black magic, some women who are raped in urban areas, children who cursed their parents, some non-virgin brides, Jews who collect firewood on Saturday to keep their families from freezing, persons proselytizing in favor of another religion, persons worshiping a deity other than Yahweh, strangers who entered the temple, etc; all were to be executed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Jimba,In an earlier post I found some stuff regarding Commandment 6: Regarding Commandment 6, I found this little passage: "This Commandment is not absolute. Not all murders are forbidden. Hebrew Scriptures specify many grounds for which this commandment is to be ignored, and a guilty party executed. Persons found guilty of temple prostitution, engaged women who are seduced by a man other than her future husband, women who practice black magic, some women who are raped in urban areas, children who cursed their parents, some non-virgin brides, Jews who collect firewood on Saturday to keep their families from freezing, persons proselytizing in favor of another religion, persons worshiping a deity other than Yahweh, strangers who entered the temple, etc; all were to be executed". crap like this does not invalidate the simple rule "thou shall not kill". if we were to execute non-virgin brides it wouldn't be too long b4 the human race died out ... it's hard enough to believe ppl actually wrote this stuff without somebody using it as a justification for executions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs3602001 Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Why does it not invalidate? Because you said so? I think to gain an interesting perspective on this John Grisham gives some good insights from both sides of the fence, in his book "A Time To Kill", here you can see the vengeance of a father whose daughter has been raped and abused and the attackers are looking to get away scot free, the father takes matters into his own hands and blows the two "suspects" away, although a work of fiction it is pretty compelling stuff. On the flip side you have "The Chamber", where a young lawyer tries to rescue his long long (shamefully lost) grandfather from the gas chamber, again a convincing argument is made. Who can really say it is "Wrong"? I mean if you take a few paces away from the judicial system, if someone was to carry out such a nasty act on a family member of mine and I had the opportunity to spend some time with that person, I am quite sure emotions would overcome any intellect I may posses and the guy/girl would die. I do agree with Jimba in terms of responsibility for some of the crimes that are committed, people with a history of disturbing crimes and mental illness generally get neglected and are never actually "treated" or "rehabilitated", so the chances are they will re-offend are high and when they do the government generally takes no interest in their part of the overall picture. Jimba,In an earlier post I found some stuff regarding Commandment 6: Regarding Commandment 6, I found this little passage: "This Commandment is not absolute. Not all murders are forbidden. Hebrew Scriptures specify many grounds for which this commandment is to be ignored, and a guilty party executed. Persons found guilty of temple prostitution, engaged women who are seduced by a man other than her future husband, women who practice black magic, some women who are raped in urban areas, children who cursed their parents, some non-virgin brides, Jews who collect firewood on Saturday to keep their families from freezing, persons proselytizing in favor of another religion, persons worshiping a deity other than Yahweh, strangers who entered the temple, etc; all were to be executed". crap like this does not invalidate the simple rule "thou shall not kill". if we were to execute non-virgin brides it wouldn't be too long b4 the human race died out ... it's hard enough to believe ppl actually wrote this stuff without somebody using it as a justification for executions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Why does it not invalidate? Because you said so? i don't believe the piece of Hebrew scripture u quoted invalidates the 6th comandmant or did u actually read what u quoted ???? Persons found guilty of temple prostitution, engaged women who are seduced by a man other than her future husband, women who practice black magic, some women who are raped in urban areas, children who cursed their parents, some non-virgin brides, Jews who collect firewood on Saturday to keep their families from freezing, persons proselytizing in favor of another religion, persons worshiping a deity other than Yahweh, strangers who entered the temple, etc; all were to be executed". or do u genuinely believe the types of ppl listed above deserve to be executed, because that's what the Hebrew scripture u r quoting says. also it's hard to take someone seriously when they talk about the perspective from a John Grisham book ... well last time i checked the guy was writing fictionwhich means it's not true Who can really say it is "Wrong"? I mean if you take a few paces away from the judicial system, if someone was to carry out such a nasty act on a family member of mine and I had the opportunity to spend some time with that person, I am quite sure emotions would overcome any intellect I may posses and the guy/girl would die. i'm sure most of us would not be able to maintain our self control and would probably do the guy some serious damage, but that wouldn't make us right and would probably bring us down to their level. i don't believe in killing ppl, but do realise it is easier to say that if no member of my family (or a friend) has been killed or attacked by someone else. possibly if it did happen my views would change, but i hope not. i think the thing which revolts ppl the most r child murderers and child abusers and while i would agree these ppl have no place in civilised society i am not sure killing them is the answer (i believe it is too easy for them). i think the rest of their lives in a bare concrete cell with minimum human contact and just enough food to sustain life, should give them ample opportunity to reflect on what they have done.........obviously going to be a very emotive issue, but when i see the rising death toll around the world in various conflicts i personally find it more and more difficult to justify killing any other human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs3602001 Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 CarenM i don't believe the piece of Hebrew scripture u quoted invalidates the 6th comandmant or did u actually read what u quoted ???? Yes I read what I quoted, there are certain Hebrew Scriptures that decree the 6th Commandment not absolute, I did not write those scriptures or have any input whatsoever, they were composed quite a few years before I was born. also it's hard to take someone seriously when they talk about the perspective from a John Grisham book ... well last time i checked the guy was writing fiction which means it's not true Interestingly enough I did mention that Grisham writes fiction: although a work of fiction it is pretty compelling stuff So I guess you did not read my original post before replying, I am saying his work of fiction gives an interesting perspective, one I find much more interesting than yours, as he has exstensive legal experience/knowledge also prior and during the writing of both books carried out exstensive research, a lot coming from real cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs3602001 Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 As for nonsense in hebrew texts? forget that rubbish and work it ut for yourself. The Ten Commandment (Devarim) are Hebrew Texts :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 cs3602001 PostPosted: 03 Feb 2005 9:21 pm Post subject: CarenM Quote: i don't believe the piece of Hebrew scripture u quoted invalidates the 6th comandmant or did u actually read what u quoted ???? Yes I read what I quoted, there are certain Hebrew Scriptures that decree the 6th Commandment not absolute, I did not write those scriptures or have any input whatsoever, they were composed quite a few years before I was born. yes u did not write these scriptures or have any input, but u have quoted them twice as a justification for taking life. "This Commandment is not absolute. Not all murders are forbidden. Hebrew Scriptures specify many grounds for which this commandment is to be ignored, and a guilty party executed. Persons found guilty of temple prostitution, engaged women who are seduced by a man other than her future husband, women who practice black magic, some women who are raped in urban areas, children who cursed their parents, some non-virgin brides, Jews who collect firewood on Saturday to keep their families from freezing, persons proselytizing in favor of another religion, persons worshiping a deity other than Yahweh, strangers who entered the temple, etc; all were to be executed". so do u really believe women who r seduced by another man, women who practice black magic, some women who r raped, some non-virign brides etc deserve to be executed ... because this is what u r quoting states. funny how most of these r were the women is doing wrong and not the man, although i suppose that proves god must be a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs3602001 Posted February 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 CarenM I posted the quotation as an example, not as a text that I support, I cannot see anywhere in my previous posts where I have endorsed the execution of "women who practice black magic, some women who r raped, some non-virign brides etc" If my input woudl have been present it would have read "paedophiles, paedophiles and paedophiles", maybe prior to death I would also include some cruel and unusual torture. For this kind of killing I do not have to quote anything or justify anything, it is my opinion on how peadophiles should be dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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