Islam

[Kitschiguy]

propers to kitschiguy, well said.

worth noting that islam incorporates Jesus as a prophet, and both suffer from the same evangelical disease. or rather, both inflict suffering through the same evangelical disease.

Yes, Islam actually recognises some 124,000 prophets. The tanakhabout 600,000 or something! The Q'uran only mentions about 25 by name. 5 are regarded as special, Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Moses and Muhammad, Muhammad being the last.

Each one was given a mission by God to instruct mankind depending on the mission and encourage his people to obey God. It states that God (Allah) sent one for every group throughout time.

Bit of a tangent but it's interesting

[tech_noir]

As any other major religion books are books, but how to read them deppends on the political situation and the goals of the leaders.

What seems most hadcore gets some credits and support by the more faithfull (or complexed) believers, so it is profitable.

Appart of it Turks look pretty secular nowadays (as they try their best to get friends with Europe).

[lizardo]

"TONY Blair talked to God at crucial, tough times when he was Prime Minister, a new book will reveal today.

Before sending troops to war he was guided by his faith and spoke to ?his maker?.

Former Number 10 spin chief Alastair Campbell says in his diaries that he repeatedly clashed with him about religion.

A year before becoming Premier, Mr Blair travelled with then PM John Major to visit Dunblane ? scene of the school massacre in which 16 children and their teacher were shot dead.

A source who has seen the book said: ?After visiting Dunblane, Campbell confronts Blair over his religious beliefs. He asks how can he believe in God when he?s just seen kids? blood on the floor and spoken to grieving parents.

?Blair replies, ?Just because the killer is bad does not mean that God is not good?.?

Mr Campbell, an atheist, famously once said ?We don?t do God? when someone tried to quiz the PM about his faith."

....................................................

[CiaranM]

I did not say in any way that was in the Koran,not that I'd know,but what I do know is that it does happen in the muslium faith.

And as for your racist comments they are not appreciated either.

and which racists comments would that be ???

[zeusbheld]

I did not say in any way that was in the Koran,not that I'd know,but what I do know is that it does happen in the muslium faith.

And as for your racist comments they are not appreciated either.

and which racists comments would that be ???

really, making disparaging comments about kiwis is not racist--it's species-ist!

avian-hating monster. did you see "the birds", mofo? they're comin' for ya...

[Kitschiguy]

allah akbar.....all religions are used as tools of control.....man has no greater weakness than strong faith

Allahu Akhbar means 'God is the greatest' Used ironically it could cause offence to Muslims. I'm not suggesting that's what you're doing however.

Man has many weaknesses. One of the greatest is his ego and his inability to learn and understand. This type of comment is typical of self-proclaimed atheists (I'm not suggesting you are one, I'm just using your comment as a platform to write some old tosh) especially those who have failed to fully understand Atheism, the various forms it takes given a particular definition of the word.

[pink_lemonade]

I live all my life in a country that has the biggest Islamic people in the world. I think you all know that due to the bombing in jakarta and bali - that was caused by an islamic organization - some western country put travel warning to their citizen who wants to come here.

Some of these people who do the bombing by putting bombs in their body are people who don't have any money and job. They were offered money by these irresponsible people by saying 'if you do the bombing, it means you do a good deed to Allah and this money can take care your family when you died', and since they have no other options so they did it.

I have many friends who is Islam but most of them are very nice and good people, they also hate that 'islamic organization' by making a very bad reputation of their religion.

[Nelis]

allah akbar.....all religions are used as tools of control.....man has no greater weakness than strong faith

Allahu Akhbar means 'God is the greatest' Used ironically it could cause offence to Muslims. I'm not suggesting that's what you're doing however.

Man has many weaknesses. One of the greatest is his ego and his inability to learn and understand. This type of comment is typical of self-proclaimed atheists (I'm not suggesting you are one, I'm just using your comment as a platform to write some old tosh) especially those who have failed to fully understand Atheism, the various forms it takes given a particular definition of the word.

Aww poor easily offended Muslims....

You're making generalisations about those "self-proclaimed" Atheists here yourself. And aren't these old belief systems THE main reason of man's inability to learn and understand in many parts of the world?

I don't like this attitude of people who claim that people who have an aversion against religion and/or creationism are somehow stupid or ignorant or less intellectual because they haven't read "the books" or are misinformed in another way.

I think I know enough about these belief systems to know that I don't wanna be a part of it and that's enough for me.

[lizardo]

allah akbar.....all religions are used as tools of control.....man has no greater weakness than strong faith

Allahu Akhbar means 'God is the greatest' Used ironically it could cause offence to Muslims. I'm not suggesting that's what you're doing however.

Man has many weaknesses. One of the greatest is his ego and his inability to learn and understand. This type of comment is typical of self-proclaimed atheists (I'm not suggesting you are one, I'm just using your comment as a platform to write some old tosh) especially those who have failed to fully understand Atheism, the various forms it takes given a particular definition of the word.

i am well aware of what allah akbar means...hence i used it.....and what else is one to be if not a 'self proclaimed' atheist? belong to the church of atheism?? well that would amount to the same shite as following any given set of beliefs...i have no idea who or what or what set of coincidences created the earth man and all and quite frankly i don't share the human desire / need to know nor have it explained in absolutes be they religion or science....the world used to be flat, the sun used to be all powerful, giants with hammers ruled the heavens...but alas no more...

[Kitschiguy]

allah akbar.....all religions are used as tools of control.....man has no greater weakness than strong faith

Allahu Akhbar means 'God is the greatest' Used ironically it could cause offence to Muslims. I'm not suggesting that's what you're doing however.

Man has many weaknesses. One of the greatest is his ego and his inability to learn and understand. This type of comment is typical of self-proclaimed atheists (I'm not suggesting you are one, I'm just using your comment as a platform to write some old tosh) especially those who have failed to fully understand Atheism, the various forms it takes given a particular definition of the word.

Aww poor easily offended Muslims....

You're making generalisations about those "self-proclaimed" Atheists here yourself. And aren't these old belief systems THE main reason of man's inability to learn and understand in many parts of the world?

I don't like this attitude of people who claim that people who have an aversion against religion and/or creationism are somehow stupid or ignorant or less intellectual because they haven't read "the books" or are misinformed in another way.

I think I know enough about these belief systems to know that I don't wanna be a part of it and that's enough for me.

Isn't that a contradiction?

It's true that religion has hindered Mans progress in many parts of the world, but the people you're talking about aren't self-proclaimed atheists, they're religious. I'm talking about people like you and me. Religion doesn't hinder our leaning, so there's no excuse.

So, where's the generalisation? In my experience this type of comment is typical.

I'm not talking about people who don't believe in creationism either. Why would I, I don't believe in it myself. But atheists usually take the intellectual high-ground. Trying not to run the risk of generalising, some, many or possibly all atheists I have spoken to usually adopt this philosophical stance and try to assert that in some way their thinking is more evolved than that of a religious person.

Your comments are much the same, typical. I don't want to offend you but to me they are stupid. It's obvious that you have little understanding of the subject. And comments like 'I think I know enough . . ' highlight the fact perfectly. Don't you want to know for sure before committing to such a firm belief. And 'awww . . poor easily offended muslims.' What's that about? Do you think it's OK to offend the majority of faithful, law-abiding Muslims?

Sheng Ts'an, a Zen Buddhist is famous for this quote - don't seek reality, just put an end to opinions.

Besides, I am an atheist. Zen Buddhism is an atheistic religion.

[Kitschiguy]

I think it's time for a smile ---->

[Nelis]

allah akbar.....all religions are used as tools of control.....man has no greater weakness than strong faith

Allahu Akhbar means 'God is the greatest' Used ironically it could cause offence to Muslims. I'm not suggesting that's what you're doing however.

Man has many weaknesses. One of the greatest is his ego and his inability to learn and understand. This type of comment is typical of self-proclaimed atheists (I'm not suggesting you are one, I'm just using your comment as a platform to write some old tosh) especially those who have failed to fully understand Atheism, the various forms it takes given a particular definition of the word.

Aww poor easily offended Muslims....

You're making generalisations about those "self-proclaimed" Atheists here yourself. And aren't these old belief systems THE main reason of man's inability to learn and understand in many parts of the world?

I don't like this attitude of people who claim that people who have an aversion against religion and/or creationism are somehow stupid or ignorant or less intellectual because they haven't read "the books" or are misinformed in another way.

I think I know enough about these belief systems to know that I don't wanna be a part of it and that's enough for me.

Isn't that a contradiction?

It's true that religion has hindered Mans progress in many parts of the world, but the people you're talking about aren't self-proclaimed atheists, they're religious. I'm talking about people like you and me. Religion doesn't hinder our leaning, so there's no excuse.

So, where's the generalisation? In my experience this type of comment is typical.

I'm not talking about people who don't believe in creationism either. Why would I, I don't believe in it myself. But atheists usually take the intellectual high-ground. Trying not to run the risk of generalising, some, many or possibly all atheists I have spoken to usually adopt this philosophical stance and try to assert that in some way their thinking is more evolved than that of a religious person.

Your comments are much the same, typical. I don't want to offend you but to me they are stupid. It's obvious that you have little understanding of the subject. And comments like 'I think I know enough . . ' highlight the fact perfectly. Don't you want to know for sure before committing to such a firm belief. And 'awww . . poor easily offended muslims.' What's that about? Do you think it's OK to offend the majority of faithful, law-abiding Muslims?

Sheng Ts'an, a Zen Buddhist is famous for this quote - don't seek reality, just put an end to opinions.

Besides, I am an atheist. Zen Buddhism is an atheistic religion.

I never talked about what I believe, I just said that I know what I don't want to believe. Call my comments stupid whenever you want, I'm not that easily offended.

[zeusbheld]

That's a good question. The Church Of Atheism - wouldn't be too stupid.

begs the question of whether organizing around beliefs is inherently daft and/or dangerous though. i mean back in the day (the enviironment we evolved in) it had its purpose: if you truly believed that there were Gods out there who could help you direct that spear into a large beast's hind quarters, you'd be more likely to risk your life trying to do so. clearly, we are built to believe we have more control over our destiny than we really do. in this sense, religion of any kind is useful at times. however, in the world we remade for ourselves, this is more often than not the power of religion to delude ourselves in useful ways is invoked to win superbowls and destroy each other than to organize toward mission-critical survival tasks. in other words, like much of what we evolved, in the world we made for ourselves, religion as it iis generally done at present hinders us more than helps.

God is homeless anyway. You could build a temple or a church for any reason.

enough reason to speculate that god might be pissed off at us for squandering our resources... lame and blind in eden, even...

The point is, is that atheism is a belief system in itself.

arguably even agnosticism is a belief system and belief systems are unavoidable (did we just make a post-modern turn? uh oh).

[zeusbheld]

....and what else is one to be if not a 'self proclaimed' atheist?

i've never proclaimed myself an atheist, although i've been called one by the sort of people who can't live without a bin-sort version of "reality."

[Kitschiguy]

I think I messed up the quote boxes..

[Kitschiguy]

I think I'm loosing it..

[valetudo]

I am currently on contract in Saudi Arabia and live in the community and not on a western compound.

Alot of what you guys are saying is in part true and in part bollocks.

Living here has shown me one thing............................even a moderate muslim will condem any action he/she sees as anti islamic before he/she condems ANY form of islamic extemism.

This saddens me but its true.

As for the teatment of women coco bro................... ask the average saidi lady and she will say she has a fukking amazing life........ask the average afgani..........totaly different responce. same strain of islam but different lifestyles due to historical factors.

some of the ignorance here scares me more than http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/jihad/video/x1yzrh_jihad-academy_news

ok maybe not, but maybe you should all join a western mujahadeen and fight for it

[tech_noir]

ok maybe not, but maybe you should all join a western mujahadeen and fight for it

That's a way that soon could be good enough to consider.

As it has ever been "While you are not in situaion to be able to cleraly determine good and bad amongst the others, attack all of them to protect yourself and your lifestyle. God would recognise them, but you would be still alive.".

Sorry. I also honesltly beleve that at least 95% of muslims are nice people, but at the second i feel myself or my family threatened...

BTW it's usually been called "crusaders".

While radicals are gathering support by pumping hate on religious basis, it is simple not reasonable to seek a rational decision.

[tech_noir]

We've (christians and muslims) both made enemies eachother many, many centuries ago (even before christianity and islam had been born) :wink:. Collisions of economic interests as ever (religion and culture are just a handy excuse).

So as time passes by, both cultures are still alive, we continue our realations on battle or win-win basis (relaxing and preparing for the next conflict) and both already have good respect.

That's why it becomes pretty messy when a new player enters the game and starts judging just after passing in. There is no way the old players not to feel upset, but if the kid is yours and if you can't just throw it back out, it's your interest to keep smiling till the smoke disperse (as long as you are not directly threatened, if so - you'd better join the kid and make your best)

[valetudo]

Living here has shown me one thing............................even a moderate muslim will condem any action he/she sees as anti islamic before he/she condems ANY form of islamic extemism.

This saddens me but its true.

Why do we never see the expression "western extremism" in our media?

How many bombs do we need to drop and how many countries do we need to invade to be called "extremists"?

If your country were on the receiving end of that type of bombing and that level of aggression you'd call the senders a pack of rats yourself and I'm sure you wouldn't mind some of your friends blowing themselves up in the rats' faces.

And I'm also sure you wouldn't need to be a muslim for that kind of reaction to occur.

Not being able to take the opponents' perspective leads to just the same results as ignorance. If muslims perceive you as the enemy it's because you have made them your enemy, over many many years.

To answer your ,points only from my own perspective mind, You don't see the word "western extremism" just like you don't see "eastern extremism"

As Jihad is fought in the name of religion "islamic extemism" is a fair description.

Over here the new reports it as zionist extemism, but i din't recall any public statements of attacking in the name of christianity in recent memory. Maybe Buddist extreism is taking place in the south :roll:

I think that there is a huge difference between an extremist movement and a volitile government (usa/ozzie/uk).

I am in a country where Ex-pats have been on the recieving end of such behaviour and, I think, not one strapped a bomb to his butt and blew up a market place.( I refere to compound attacks over the years which have left many ex-pats dead. You only understand what you read and hear. I SEE this attitude growing daily. Particually in the eastern part of Riyadh where over 3000 have been arrested since 2003.

[Mikee_Moose]

Couldnt agree more, John

[valetudo]

hmmm show me "hate" by the western world to islam.

Please enlighten me on "hate" towards islam, I bet you can't point me in the direction of any well known examples outlining this "hate"

u never heard of column 18 or the BNP ???

never heard of Ann Coulter, George W or watched FOX ???

u didn't know about the invasion of Iraq ??

or how the west treats Palestine after their democratic elections ???

COMBAT 18 dearest, but good point,

[valetudo]

Living here has shown me one thing............................even a moderate muslim will condem any action he/she sees as anti islamic before he/she condems ANY form of islamic extemism.

This saddens me but its true.

Why do we never see the expression "western extremism" in our media?

How many bombs do we need to drop and how many countries do we need to invade to be called "extremists"?

If your country were on the receiving end of that type of bombing and that level of aggression you'd call the senders a pack of rats yourself and I'm sure you wouldn't mind some of your friends blowing themselves up in the rats' faces.

And I'm also sure you wouldn't need to be a muslim for that kind of reaction to occur.

Not being able to take the opponents' perspective leads to just the same results as ignorance. If muslims perceive you as the enemy it's because you have made them your enemy, over many many years.

To answer your ,points only from my own perspective mind, You don't see the word "western extremism" just like you don't see "eastern extremism"

As Jihad is fought in the name of religion "islamic extemism" is a fair description.

Over here the new reports it as zionist extemism, but i din't recall any public statements of attacking in the name of christianity in recent memory. Maybe Buddist extreism is taking place in the south :roll:

I think that there is a huge difference between an extremist movement and a volitile government (usa/ozzie/uk).

I am in a country where Ex-pats have been on the recieving end of such behaviour and, I think, not one strapped a bomb to his butt and blew up a market place.( I refere to compound attacks over the years which have left many ex-pats dead. You only understand what you read and hear. I SEE this attitude growing daily. Particually in the eastern part of Riyadh where over 3000 have been arrested since 2003.

Why is there a Jihad going on?

Because a promonant figure ordered a jihad based on the koranic ruling that if you are invaded buy an opposing force which tries to impose a different religion or rule on the majority by force.. (assuming the majority is islamic ).

I guess that justifies the uprising in the south of LOS and the Suni - Sh'ite battles in the middle east, not to mention Pakistan vs Whabbie and the attacks on the usa (christian majority), london (same), they gotta good point with Iraq though................. assuming all the attacks were aimed at the occupying force and the HUGE civillian death ratio has been an accident.

As qutoed by Jason Burke in the book 'Road to Khandahar'

A man called K states western societies vote in thier leaders and pay taxes, therefore they are viable targets as they are responsible for the actions of thier leaders.

This is amazing, they must be very carefull not to kill non-voters when they blow up buildings or attack subway systems. And think about all the ground work required in being sure you only hi-jacked 4 flights full of infidel registered voters.

If only Mr bush was so careful when selecting targets all this violece would end.

but to be fair... you have a point 8)