beej Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Hmmmm.... what a mess? Surprised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeGeneve Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 an ABAC poll of likely voters in Isaan revealed a generally positive response among PPP faithful, with 74% of respondents certain that Samak would be killing ?someone else.? :x Oh.. that is got me worried of nation embarrassing if our next PM was Khun Samak.. Imagine he was at the international presses conference, and the press asked him question which he found it annoyed and offensive then he asked the question back before answer to the question that.. Did you f*ck someone last night ?? I suspect that the reality was he was being quite polite to the young woman as it was at a press conference as apparently he is much worse in private. The fact that a has been like Samak can get another crack at the top highlights how bad the corrupted pool of political talent is in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyoiy Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 what if the government is a combination of all other parties except PPP? I dont know which way gonna be better... *big sigh* but surely it gonna be a mess as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbroker Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Amazing how little interest the average thai takes in politics.... Even more comical how the average non-voting farang likes to pipe up here about things they have no control over; whether said policies impact them or not has little or no bearing. Reminds me of the Euro-geniuses and non-voting American expats (just as intelligent and as often anti-American) bitching and moaning about current American political state of affairs. the thing is thai people take politic seriously but they dont take much of actions (ignorance is probably in our nature).due to the serious lack of education, the lack of understanding the importance/the value of democracy, and due to the poverty, (the majority of us are poor) so, the majority of thai seems to be easily manipulated/used. It may be up to your next generation to pull your country into the 21st century and resemble a current Malaysia or Singapore. Fair and modern law must rule and the corruption "policy" must change from "it's a business cost" to "it's unacceptable and illegal." The Thai attitude needs to change as well: true constructive criticism is never a reason to lose face; in fact, the entire "face loss" concept needs to be relegated to the trash bin. If there is one thing I think is killing your country and holding back its economic and financial standing (and thus its place on the world stage) it's this ingrained face loss issue. We're talking changing an entire populace's mindset. It's neither easily done nor will it come quickly if at all. Some or all of this might happen if quality, merit-based education is available, widespread and made mandatory especially to the lower classes. It will take serious and continued leadership to get it done. I wonder if any of the candidates are thinking along those lines. I'd guess no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 ....and non-voting American expats (just as intelligent and as often anti-American) bitching and moaning about current American political state of affairs. unless you know for a fact they don't vote, that's a big assumption and a broad brush your'e tarring with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steevolution Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Even more comical how the average non-voting farang likes to pipe up here about things they have no control overand even less understanding of. and then they proceed to spew about how Thailand needs to "improve" to become the place of their (but not necessarily anyone else's) dreams.It may be up to your next generation to pull your country into the 21st century and resemble a current Malaysia or Singapore. WHY THE F*KK WOULD THAILAND WANT TO BECOME MALAYSIA OR SINGAPORE? yeah the trains are cleaner and it is possible for numbnuts that only speak English to navigate easily, but for other reasons they are hell/sh*t holes. if u love these places so much... GO THERE! don't lecture people whose country is far more beautiful and welcoming about how they need to change. Fair and modern law must rule and the corruption "policy" must change from "it's a business cost" to "it's unacceptable and illegal." Singapore and Malaysia are bein held up as examples? what they have over Thai is the speed and efficiency with which their laws are applied to silence dissent and enrich those in power. people with empathy would not consider this an improvement. The Thai attitude needs to change as well: yeah here it comes. tell us how to improve, Holy Father. true constructive criticism is never a reason to lose face; in fact, the entire "face loss" concept needs to be relegated to the trash bin. If there is one thing I think is killing your country and holding back its economic and financial standing (and thus its place on the world stage) it's this ingrained face loss issue. We're talking changing an entire populace's mindset. It's neither easily done nor will it come quickly if at all. your understanding is superficial. therefor you are not qualified to even comment... and you're certainly not qualified to tell an entire population how it needs to change. what i love is these f*kkers that think Thai would be a wonderful place, if only they could hang on to the women between the ages of 18 and 25, and GET RID OF EVERYONE ELSE (maybe a few masseuses, maids and gardeners would also be allowed to stay.) this paradise would then be run by amerikkkans, or australians, or english because those countries are SO MUCH BETTER. WELL I GOT NEWS FER YA. if i wanted that life than that's where i would live... and you should too!!! life in a country is a package deal. people here are not infants or stupid. there are advantages to the way they do things, though mouthy johnny-come-lately outsiders with no insight and little understanding may not be able to see it. my own respectful two cents worth of advice is to be very careful, skeptical, circumspect, even cynical about anything outsiders tell you that is needed. but then, luckily, the Thai people don't need my advice. they've been dealing quite successfully with meddlesome outsiders for quite some time. and VeebleBroken don't be discouraged. the US is gettin more like Singapore every damn day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Even more comical how the average non-voting farang likes to pipe up here about things they have no control overand even less understanding of. and then they proceed to spew about how Thailand needs to "improve" to become the place of their (but not necessarily anyone else's) dreams. well, there are more than two camps in my opinion: there's those who shrilly proclaim that things need to change, as you describe (especially around the time of the coup, there were a lot of Farrangs With Solutions, they should have started a consulting firm). but a great many people, especially those living in thailand or with friends/relatives/etc there, take an interest in thailand's politics, even some who have no real connection to thailand (citeh fans for example) and why shoudln't they? but yeah the holy fathers shrilly proclaiming that their answer is *the* answer are annoying. It may be up to your next generation to pull your country into the 21st century and resemble a current Malaysia or Singapore. WHY THE F*KK WOULD THAILAND WANT TO BECOME MALAYSIA OR SINGAPORE? yeah the trains are cleaner and it is possible for numbnuts that only speak English to navigate easily, but for other reasons they are hell/sh*t holes. if u love these places so much... GO THERE! don't lecture people whose country is far more beautiful and welcoming about how they need to change. their economies are much stronger. thailand could benefit quite a bit from more sensible economic policy without forcing them to stop being thailand, close up the sex shops and sell nasi lemak on every corner. Fair and modern law must rule and the corruption "policy" must change from "it's a business cost" to "it's unacceptable and illegal." Singapore and Malaysia are bein held up as examples? what they have over Thai is the speed and efficiency with which their laws are applied to silence dissent and enrich those in power. people with empathy would not consider this an improvement. from what i've seen (which is quite limited) thailand is fully up to par at silencing dissent and probably superior to singapore at enriching those in power (and only those in power). as far as fair and modern law goes, there are some issues with singapore in particular around laws that don't conform to international standards re: money laundering (if this has been sorted it's news to me and fairly recent). that said, aside from s'pore's obvious grating nanny-state, it is still much more rule-of-law than thailand IMO, which would be an improvement in terms of stability. stability begets prosperity, not democrazy. what i love is these f*kkers that think Thai would be a wonderful place, if only they could hang on to the women between the ages of 18 and 25, and GET RID OF EVERYONE ELSE (maybe a few masseuses, maids and gardeners would also be allowed to stay.) this paradise would then be run by amerikkkans, or australians, or english because those countries are SO MUCH BETTER. well, it WOULD be a wonderful place if everyone were gotten rid of except women 18-35 (i extended the range; i'm greedy) and... me. that would indeed be the best possible country on the planet. life in a country is a package deal. people here are not infants or stupid. or at least not on average more infantile or stupid than anywhere else (including Farrang Land). there are advantages to the way they do things, though mouthy johnny-come-lately outsiders with no insight and little understanding may not be able to see it. my own respectful two cents worth of advice is to be very careful, skeptical, circumspect, even cynical about anything outsiders tell you that is needed.but then, luckily, the Thai people don't need my advice. they've been dealing quite successfully with meddlesome outsiders for quite some time. xenophobia has advantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie36 Posted December 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 I find it interesting that the election thread on TF barely makes it to 3 pages... Thais show little or no interest in politics as far as I can see. The level of political debate seems to be 'I am voting Democrat cos Abhisit is handsome' or 'I am voting PPP cos I love Thaksin'. Now if you think it is just a case of me finding some more sophisticated friends, take a look at the media - their political commentary barely reaches above this level of debate. If you look at TF there is more interest in US politics, UK politics, religion. It is easy to see how inept and corrupt politicians prosper in an environment of wilful neglect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steevolution Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 I find it interesting that the election thread on TF barely makes it to 3 pages...Thais show little or no interest in politics as far as I can see. The level of political debate seems to be 'I am voting Democrat cos Abhisit is handsome' or 'I am voting PPP cos I love Thaksin'. Now if you think it is just a case of me finding some more sophisticated friends, take a look at the media - their political commentary barely reaches above this level of debate. If you look at TF there is more interest in US politics, UK politics, religion. It is easy to see how inept and corrupt politicians prosper in an environment of wilful neglect. the inverse is also true. it is easy to see why people don't care when the system is rigged and the choice is the frying pan or the fire. this goes for the US as well. the differences between the two parties gets razor thin. the two party system is killing/has killed democracy in america. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venus Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Now if you think it is just a case of me finding some more sophisticated friends, take a look at the media - their political commentary barely reaches above this level of debate. ermmmmm me wonders - if you ever get any chances to watch thai news or politic programmes or read thai newspapers at all. if you did - then you would understand better...that thai people dont take less interest in politic. ermmm lucky me that i never know anyone who voted for k. aphisit because he is handsome. never mind... :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venus Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 It will take serious and continued leadership to get it done. I wonder if any of the candidates are thinking along those lines. I'd guess no. of course, there are some. a few, i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie36 Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 When it comes to buying elections.... I was kinda amused to see that the American candidates in the Iowa caucuses have spent the equivalent of US$200/voter (that's nearly Bt7000/voter) on advertising. That really puts the average Thai politician to shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Blitzing American television with advertising costs a lot more than those 7x3 campaign posters that block all the sidewalks. The average Thai politician has no shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie36 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 I see plans are afoot to make sure that PPP dont get to form the government even though they won the election. First, there are attempts to deem the whole party illegal by acting as a proxy for Thaksin. http://www.bangkokpost.net/topstories/topstories.php?id=124855 Secondly, the EC has refused to endorse 65 candidates from PPP in the recent election - possibly bringing their MP count down to the same level as the Democrats. Potentially screwing up their plans to form a coalition. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/01/04/headlines/headlines_30061120.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venus Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Secondly, the EC has refused to endorse 65 candidates from PPP in the recent election - possibly bringing their MP count down to the same level as the Democrats. Potentially screwing up their plans to form a coalition.http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/01/04/headlines/headlines_30061120.php to be fair - they has not (yet) refused - they just extend the time to endorse them. http://www.matichon.co.th/matichon/matichon_detail.php?s_tag=01pol02040151&day=2008-01-04§ionid=0133 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venus Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 the ec has announced today that they will endorse 6 candidates by tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie36 Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 If PPP get banned for being a proxy for TRT/Thaksin what happens then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyoiy Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Im so sick of this such thing... Whats going on!?!?!? :x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 If PPP get banned for being a proxy for TRT/Thaksin what happens then? I doubt it will happen because the judges will likely take into account what a mess it will be if they do ban it. Even though it's not their job to consider the consequences, only whether or not the party is a proxy, and whether or not that is legal. I don't see how anyone can doubt it's his proxy. By Samak's own admission, Thaksin chose him to lead the party. If he's washed his hands of politics (as he's repeatedly claimed), and he's not involved in running or owning the party (as his lawyer has claimed), then why does he get to choose the leader? And that's really the crux of the problem with Thaksin and his people. They will break any laws that it suits them to, and their response will always be: but the people support us. We got (bought) the votes. It's not that different from when Nixon said "if the president does it, it's not illegal.'' We all know that's not true. And we know where that takes a country: To no respect for the rule of law. I can only see two possibilities if the party is banned. Either they begin the whole election process all over again, giving PPP non-executives time to form yet another new party (as the executives should be banned for violating the rules). Or they just disqualify them all and let Chart Thai and Peua Paendin fight it out. But banning the party could lead to some serious social unrest - although that will also most likely be paid for. And that opens the door for the military to once again intervene. All in all, I can only see a very bad downward spiral. Even though they are not supposed to, the judges will probably factor that into their decision. That's my guess. If Thaksin, Samak. Surapong, Chalerm and company had just been a lot more low key about this whole thing, they could have pulled this charade off much more smoothly. Instead, they've decided to be arrogant about it, and throw it in people's faces. Which means they've learned nothing from their first go round, and we're just headed for more trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie36 Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Loburt, You really should read 'A Coup For The Rich' by Giles Ji Ungpakorn sometime... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I intend to, and I respect Ajarn Giles, although I don't think he's right about everything. How can you be when you're a Marxist? If it was a coup for the rich, it was also a coup against the rich. The idea that only one side represents "the elite" is pretty farcical when you consider the wealth of most of the people leading the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie36 Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I intend to, and I respect Ajarn Giles, although I don't think he's right about everything. How can you be when you're a Marxist?If it was a coup for the rich, it was also a coup against the rich. The idea that only one side represents "the elite" is pretty farcical when you consider the wealth of most of the people leading the other side. I dont see the dichotomy of the rich representing the poor - it happens everywhere. Anyway he makes a number of points that you have always failed to acknowledge. 1. Thaksin is genuinely popular with the rural voter - evident by 3 general elections. A popularity that goes beyond vote buying and is built on building the first party to have really developed a popularist party platform and implemented it. (The fact that those people might be misguided is a different matter.) 2. The coup had little or nothing to do with Thaksin's corruption and everything to do with protecting 'the elite's' position in Thai society. And now we are in one hell of a mess with no sign of an end.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venus Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Im so sick of this such thing... Whats going on!?!?!? :x dear.... its about our country. we can, at times, get sick or bored of.. thailand is our country its our responsibility to, do our best that we possibly could, to protect her. in term of protecting : we as a thai must, at least, know and learn to understand what is truly right or wrong / good or bad for our country in a long term... in realistic : things are not in black or white... but we must see "what is best" among what we have to choose... like knowing/understanding that why "k samak" isnt qualified to be our pm - and why k. aphisit deserves a chance to be our pm.. "why" we must vote, "why" we must understand the real value of "democracy" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venus Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 And now we are in one hell of a mess with no sign of an end.... reading loads of your posts about our politic.. one thing i have noticed about you is you always use a word "we" (as thai - as you are one of us). it really shows that you really care for, are concerned of thailand... as a thai person - i sincerely say "thank you" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duanja Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 www.isj.org.uk/docs/CFRbook.pdf U can also read "a coup for the rich" for free here. I think the rich is a rather big category. I think "The rich" here are the a kind of parasite life-form which, by law, is not required to pay tax. cite p. 49. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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