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Trouble in Thailand!


tonyP
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We need to develop communication lines outside Bangkok. ......Maybe one laptop per child program should be extened here too. I heard also that even in rural India villages use mobile phones and mobile intenet these days. It is so big shame that that kind of options seem to be lacking here according to some punters who write here....:(

the one thing everybody sees is TV.

interesting word choice - "We need to develop communication lines"

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the one thing everybody sees is TV.

And those TV stations are owned by:

A) Thai Police

B) Thai Military

C) Thai Politicians

D) All of the above

Not that things are any clearer elsewhere int the world...

A good documentary on that, with focus on the USA is ?Orwell Rolls in His Grave? Directed by Robert K. Pappas.

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The one laptop per child program was being brought into Thailand for about $100 per laptop...a couple hundred had already made it in for a testing phase. Then Thaksin was ousted and just about every government initiative has been halted since.

There is nothing preventing this government, or the Samak government before it, from rapidly instituting programs such as the one laptop per child program, or others to help the rural poor.

If Samak can be signing agreements with Cambodia and Somchai can be flying to Peru to attend APEC meetings, then if they wanted to they could be enacting programs such as the laptop program.

But that does not appear to be the priority for them. The priority is to change the constitution so that the cases and verdicts against Thaksin and his proxy political parties can be wiped away. That has been their sole focus since coming into office.

The constitution they want also eliminates several independent watchdog agencies. Do these governments need less oversight?

The constitution they want was written by Dr. Weng Tojirakarn, a medical doctor and semi-lunatic member of the UDD without any input from respected statesmen, academics or broad-based representatives of society. Is that tje best they can come up with for the country?

The constitution they want will not have to be put to the public for a vote. Is that democracy?

You posted a while back saying something along the lines that the PAD is in the streets because they could not accept the election results. That is not entirely accurate.

They accepted the results. They went to the streets three months later when the government, against the advice of its own coalition partners, began moving to change the constitution.

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There is nothing preventing this government, or the Samak government before it, from rapidly instituting programs such as the one laptop per child program, or others to help the rural poor.

If Samak can be signing agreements with Cambodia and Somchai can be flying to Peru to attend APEC meetings, then if they wanted to they could be enacting programs such as the laptop program.

But that does not appear to be the priority for them. The priority is to change the constitution so that the cases and verdicts against Thaksin and his proxy political parties can be wiped away. That has been their sole focus since coming into office.

The constitution they want also eliminates several independent watchdog agencies. Do these governments need less oversight?

The constitution they want was written by Dr. Weng Tojirakarn, a medical doctor and semi-lunatic member of the UDD without any input from respected statesmen, academics or broad-based representatives of society. Is that tje best they can come up with for the country?

The constitution they want will not have to be put to the public for a vote. Is that democracy?

You posted a while back saying something along the lines that the PAD is in the streets because they could not accept the election results. That is not entirely accurate.

They accepted the results. They went to the streets three months later when the government, against the advice of its own coalition partners, began moving to change the constitution.

I couldn't agree more! I am hopeful that the PAD can drive a steak into the heart of the blood sucking (aka Vampire) politicians currently in power so that this country can "Get over it" and "Move on".

I say this even though I am totally tired of the protests and the protesters (the PAD) who in doing what they do have been a real PITA for me and the work I do here because of my work location.

If the government currently in power is not willing to do the work of "The People", and would rather save itself, then it really lacks legitimacy I think. There are surely other more important matters that need to be addressed in Thailand, like the impending world financial crisis before its impact is fully felt here...

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I've been concerned about this dire situation in Thailand for a while now.

And while I applaud PAD's determination and defiance, I can see their methods are unacceptable.

So I was wondering how this could be resolved. Who will win out, the Reds or the Yellows? Will there be a civil war? The country is divided enough to take up arms and neither side is willing to compromise or negotiate...

And I believe I have the answer... Yes, seriously! Right here on TF is where you'll read it first.

Currently there is no viable third party. A NEW party is needed that can address the issues of the day - corruption, economic meltdown, Toxin and Southern unrest..

But the party needs to appeal to MORE voters than Thaksin's Northern territories...

It needs to be a party made almost exclusively of WOMEN.

Thai women are better educated, smarter, harder-working and more honest than their male counterparts. In addition they are more willing to compromise and discuss - very necessary qualities in a politician.

And whereas Thaksin appeals to the uneducated poor, a Women's Party will appeal to... well.. women. 50% of the population... more than enough to get a mandate to run the country.

It's time women took the reins of the country and put it back on track for a prosperous, fair future.

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I've been concerned about this dire situation in Thailand for a while now.

And while I applaud PAD's determination and defiance, I can see their methods are unacceptable.

So I was wondering how this could be resolved. Who will win out, the Reds or the Yellows? Will there be a civil war? The country is divided enough to take up arms and neither side is willing to compromise or negotiate...

And I believe I have the answer... Yes, seriously! Right here on TF is where you'll read it first.

Currently there is no viable third party. A NEW party is needed that can address the issues of the day - corruption, economic meltdown, Toxin and Southern unrest..

But the party needs to appeal to MORE voters than Thaksin's Northern territories...

It needs to be a party made almost exclusively of WOMEN.

Thai women are better educated, smarter, harder-working and more honest than their male counterparts. In addition they are more willing to compromise and discuss - very necessary qualities in a politician.

And whereas Thaksin appeals to the uneducated poor, a Women's Party will appeal to... well.. women. 50% of the population... more than enough to get a mandate to run the country.

It's time women took the reins of the country and put it back on track for a prosperous, fair future.

This could work....

Not sure if all of the expat men here would be happy with it though. For that matter, yeah I'll say it, muaw.

However, since more women wear high heels than men do, they'd be more likely to make the sidewalks (pavement) in BKK walkable, more so than any soon to be elected mayor would ever do. So, let 'em have at it!

Important question though, since red and yellow are already spoken for, what color will they choose? *-)

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A woman prime minister is already in the cards.

A PPP executive, Sakda Kongpetch, was quoted last week in the Bangkok Post as saying that if the court dissolves the PPP then its mps will move to the Puea Thai party.

"According to Sakda, many Puea Thai Party MPs expected Mrs Yinglak Shinawatra [Thaksin's sister] to lead their Party and she would become the first Thai female Prime Minister. He believed the Shinawatra family is ready to administer the country, especially Thaksin?s brother Payap. "

And I see cousin Chaiyasith Shinawatra, a retired army commander in chief, is also a Puea Thai executive.

I thought this was all about helping poor families in Isan.

Not rich families from Chiang Mai.

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A woman prime minister..........

...I thought this was all about helping poor families in Isan.

Not rich families from Chiang Mai.

No, I haven't missed the sarcasm...completely correct of course...

....but for any that did...

....it was NEVER about helping the poor...

.........megalomania seems to be characterised as greed for the sake of greed...

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Thailand's military - continuing to be unprofessional army of politicians

It is so twisted. One minute Army Chief General Anupong says "army's task is to protect the country and monarchy from outside forces". Then the next moment comes out this kind of comments:

"First Army Region commander Lt-General Kanit Sapitak said he was optimistic the situation would not get out of control because Thais were unified in their support for the King regardless of their differing political opinions. Kanit said his office was closely monitoring the situation, and had seen no signs thus far of any bloodshed. He refused to speculate on how the crisis would end, saying he was not a policymaker but a soldier. He sidestepped the question on military intervention, saying the army chief alone could not make a decision on whether or not to stage a coup."

Last line: "army chief alone could not make a decision on whether or not to stage a coup". Creepers. Damn that is so wrong wording! NO ONE in army is supposed to have such power in the first place to make decision on whether or not to stage a coup. CRAP these nuts with guns.

(That quote is from The Nation webpage today

Want to see some real action? Then click:

http://zonaeuropa.com/20081122_1.htm

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How valid is the constitution....and how is it (or not) related to the monachy?

Do governments (or polititions)....have to operate under the constitution if they are voted in by the tangatawhenua (people born of the land)?

The constitution seems shaky....almost not real...or have they revamped it recently?

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A fairly good laypersons explanation of the Constitutional Courts decision.

CONSTITUTION COURT: Three coalition parties bite the dust The Nation December 3, 2008

Judges say as cases of electoral fraud involved party executives, there was no scope for leniency. The Constitution Court yesterday disbanded the three main coalition parties - People Power, Chart Thai and Matchima Thipataya - and banned their executives from the electoral process for five years. In the verdict, the court held the parties, their respective leaders and executives accountable for the electoral fraud committed during the December 23 general elections.

Although the fraud directly involved People Power's Yongyuth Tiyapairat, Chart Thai's Monthien Songpracha and Matchima Thipataya's Sunthorn Wilawan, the parties are obliged to assume responsibility for the actions of their executives.

The decision was based on the Constitution, which makes political parties legally bound to ensure clean balloting. Relevant provisions in two organic laws on elections and political parties mandate party leaders and executives to get rid of money politics. As the charges of fraud involved party executives who are required to enforce provisions against vote buying, the court had no grounds for leniency.

A political party is classified as a Juristic Entity and, under accepted legal principles, any acts committed by authorised executives are binding on the party itself. Even though the high court issued three separate verdicts - one for each party - the details and legal arguments in all rulings were similar.

In the dissolution of People Power Party, the court spelled out three pertinent issues: Whether Yongyuth had committed electoral fraud; whether there was just cause for the party's dissolution; and whether the PPP leader and executives should also be penalised. With regard to the first issue, the court said the Constitution laid down strict provisions to ensure free and fair elections, with the intent of weeding out politicians trying to gain power by buying votes.

The Supreme Court had initially convicted Yongyuth for rigging votes in Chiang Rai. The defence did not contest the conviction and the high court, with no mandate to examine another court's ruling, was obliged to base its decision on Yongyuth's initial conviction. With regards to just cause for dissolution, the Constitution's Article 237 clearly calls for the mandatory disbanding of a party if its leader or one of the party executives is found linked to electoral fraud. The provision further stipulates that the party leader and its executives be banned from politics for five years. The court has no leeway in adjusting this punishment.

The high court struck down the defence argument that political parties were integral to the political system and could not be disbanded easily. However, the counter-argument spelled out that a strong, albeit dishonest, party was actually a bane to democracy and if it were left unpunished, it would weaken the political system, while people with a common political stance can always form a new party. With regard to penalising party executives, the high court again cited Article 237 as the grounds for punishment. It ruled out leniency to mete out punishment on an individual basis.

As for the verdicts against Chart Thai and Matchima Thipataya, the high court based its decision on rulings on electoral fraud from the Election Commission. Both the cases had the same three issues as the People Power Party. In Matchima Thipataya's case, the high court reached a unanimous decision to dissolve the party and ban the party leader and its executives for five years. It struck down the defence argument that it had no mandate to disband a party by citing Articles 68 and 237 that empowered the judicial review to penalise a party by dissolution.

It also ruled out defence claims about wrongful investigation on grounds that it was obliged to base its judicial review on the findings of the EC, which is an independent agency in charge of regulating the elections. It also rejected the defence argument that party executives should not be punished because they were working in the caretaker capacity when the wrongdoings occurred. Under relevant provisions, caretaker party leader and executives remain accountable.

In the case of Chart Thai, the high court came to a majority decision through an eight-to-one vote to punish the party and its leader and executives. Judge Nurak Mapranee cast the only dissenting vote. The decision was based on Monthien's conviction for fraud as per an EC ruling. The judicial arguments leading to its penalties were also based on the three pertinent issues. The main defence argument that led to the dissenting vote was that Monthien did not play a decisive role within the party, though his job title was that of a deputy leader and executive.

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Some complicated issues ahead and this analysis assits. The Council of State advise is interesting in relation to dissolution under caretaker mode.

The Nation posted an article late tonight reporting that EC has subsequently ruled that PR MPs can change parties (see article below).

To test voter fatigue, lucky BKK residents get to vote for the 4th time in just over a year on 11 Jan 09! :o

Questions arise as dissolutions put electoral system in a vacuum Published on December 3, 2008 The Nation

Thanks to the dissolution of the three coalition parties, Somchai Wongsawat effectively lost his seat as prime minister along with other party executives in his Cabinet. Altogether, 13 Cabinet members - all executives of People Power, Chart Thai and Matchima Thipataya parties - have lost their seats. The remaining 22 Cabinet members will take on the role of caretakers. Somchai was serving as caretaker leader of the PPP before it was dissolved. Under the court order, he as well as other executives from the disbanded parties will be banned from politics for five years.

Deputy Prime Minister Chaovarat Chanweerakul, who survived because he did not hold an executive post in the PPP, will serve as caretaker prime minister. He is expected to call a meeting of the caretaking Cabinet today to select an official caretaker prime minister, though former members of the PPP are expected to nominate yet another proxy for ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra. However, there are some legal questions facing the process and there is concern of possible intervention by "non-parliamentary power" during the period of political vacuum.

Do MPs from the now-defunct PPP have the power to vote to select a PM when they have not moved to other parties?

The PPP's legal expert Sukhumpong Ngonkham, who lost his seat as PM's Office minister, said yesterday that according to the Constitution, MPs from dissolved parties had 60 days to find a new banner. He said in the interim, the MPs retained their status and authority. However, some observers say MPs only have full authority, including the right to vote for a new PM, when they are affiliated to a political party.

Can MPs elected on the proportional representation system move to a political party other than the one they ran under?

Some legal experts say they can do so because the Constitution does not prevent party-list MPs from moving to another political party. However, Chirmsak Pinthong, one of the drafters of the 2007 Constitution, said only constituency MPs could move to other parties. He argued that party-list MPs were elected under a system in which their parties, not the candidates, were contestants. He said it would be against the Constitution for party-list MPs to move to another party, particularly one that did not exist when the elections took place.

Election Commission member Sodsri Satayathum said the Constitution did not clearly address the matter of changing affiliations for party-list MPs from dissolved parties, adding that the EC debate upon this matter when MPs announce their new affiliations.

How can a national unity government be formed?

Many people are calling for a national unity government to be set up as a way out of the prolonged conflict. However, the Constitution needs to be amended to allow a non-MP to become head of such a government. In order to amend the charter, at least half of the remaining parliamentarians need to support it.

After the removal of executives from the three coalition parties, there is a total of 597 MPs and senators remaining. Therefore, at least 299 members of the two Houses need to support the amendment. Since the number of opposition MPs and senators, who would definitely favour this option, is not enough, it would be difficult to achieve without the intervention of a non-parliamentary power.

Does the caretaker prime minister have the power to dissolve the House of Representatives?

Dissolving the House could emerge as an option for the current caretaker PM, ahead of the selection of new premier. The Council of State - the government's legal advisory agency - once ruled that a caretaker PM could dissolve the House because there were no laws preventing him from doing so. The agency made this ruling when Somchai was serving as caretaker prime minister after his predecessor, Samak Sundaravej, was disqualified. However, opposition could arise against such a move and a ruling by the Constitution Court may be sought on the matter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Party-list MPs can move, says EC Published on December 4, 2008

Party-list MPs are entitled to move to a new party following the disbandment of their old party, Election Commission member Somchai Juengprasert said yesterday. Somchai gave his legal interpretation of relevant organic laws on elections and on political parties in the wake of Tuesday's verdict to dissolve People Power, Chart Thai and Matchima Thipataya parties.

The question was raised whether MPs who were elected based on proportionate votes allocated to parties, could adopt a new party's banner like their counterparts elected by direct constituency votes. Somchai said under accepted principles, the legal interpretation should be favourable and practical to the MPs concerned.

MPs, both from proportionate and direct votes, were vetted by voters based on individual and party credentials, he said. Therefore, party-list MPs should be accorded the same treatment as that applicable to their constituency counterparts. He urged parties concerned to stop picking on frivolous issues like the status of party-list MPs.

In another development, City Clerk Pongsakti Semsan said balloting for the Bangkok gubernatorial race and the byelection to fill a vacant House seat for Bangkok Constituency 10 will take place on January 11. Voters in Constituency 10 (covering Rat Burana, Thung Khru, Bang Khun Thian and Bang Bon) will each cast two votes, - one for the position of Bangkok governor and another for MP.

Eligible voters for the byelection must reside in the constituency for more than 90 days. And those voting in the local elections must live in the capital for more than a year.

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Just finished watching the live press conf and surprised that the rumours on websites last night have come to fruition so quickly. Seems Chart Thai members had a lot of pressure put on them. If this coalition holds when parliament reconvenes, then hopefully it will mean less Trouble in Thailand - well for the near future at least!

Democrat, smaller parties announce new coalition By The Nation Breaking News

The Democrat Party and representatives of smaller parties Saturday announced a coalition government of at least 250 MPs. Democrat secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban held a press conference at the Sukho Thai Party in the evening.

Representatives from the former Chart Thai, former Matchima Tipataya, Ruamjai Thai Chart Pattana, Puea Pandin and the Friends of Newin faction were present at the press conference.

Sanan Kachornprasart, who represents the Char Thai, said the coalition of the defunct People Power Party could not run the country so the Chart Thai decided to switch side for the sake of the country. Sanan said the Chart Thai listened to the call from all walks of life for former partners of the People Power to switch side to tackle the divisiveness among Thais and to tackle economic crisis.

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Interesting blog on todays political jockeying by The Nations Editor with these two notable quotes;

Maybe I have watched too many movies, but in my head I'm seeing Thai politicians sitting in front of laptop computers watching obscene amounts of money going in all directions in frantic wired transfers.
Dec 6, 8 pm: Details of today's behind-the-scenes drama have begun to trickle in. It was said that Pojaman might have returned to Thailand a bit too late, because by the time of her arrival, Sanan's secret talks with the Democrats had already made much progress.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/06/headlines/headlines_30090182.php

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Of al the possible outcomes I least expected a Democrat led coalition

But it?s not all done and dusted yet

( I was going to say the fat lady hasn?t sung yet but I didn?t want to be misinterpreted!)

If the Democrats do manage a coalition, they better quickly convince the people in the North that this is the best solution.

Or can the acting PM dissolve the House?

An interesting few days ahead

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