Michael Jackson Dead at 50

[Stramash]

As Tonia pointed out, he was an *alleged* child abuser. So we'll probably never know whether the world had any reason to heap more vitriol and harassment on him than any other alleged child abuser in history (no pun intended). I wasn't aware that we were adhering to the community stoning version of justice these days.

But quite apart from that, there is nothing alleged about the joy that he brought to millions of lives around the world, for decades. I don't think there's anything wrong with people, whose lives were genuinely enriched by this man, showing their appreciation and sorrow at his passing away.

I think it went beyond alleged when he paid over 20 million to the accusers family to make it go away...

If he had been a plumber or a bus driver, he would have rotted in jail. Once again, money, power and influence defeated justice.

so what is the cuurent rate of exchange from providing joy to millions to molesting young boys?

For every 5 million who love the music and get happiness from it, 2 boys can get molested?

[Neo]

As Tonia pointed out, he was an *alleged* child abuser. So we'll probably never know whether the world had any reason to heap more vitriol and harassment on him than any other alleged child abuser in history (no pun intended). I wasn't aware that we were adhering to the community stoning version of justice these days.

But quite apart from that, there is nothing alleged about the joy that he brought to millions of lives around the world, for decades. I don't think there's anything wrong with people, whose lives were genuinely enriched by this man, showing their appreciation and sorrow at his passing away.

I think it went beyond alleged when he paid over 20 million to the accusers family to make it go away...

If he had been a plumber or a bus driver, he would have rotted in jail. Once again, money, power and influence defeated justice.

so what is the cuurent rate of exchange from providing joy to millions to molesting young boys?

For every 5 million who love the music and get happiness from it, 2 boys can get molested?

My point was that you seem to have a problem with the people who are expressing their genuine feelings. You have every right to express yours too (as evidenced by the hundreds of words you've entered on the subject so far) but please respect the same rights for others. He may have been guilty (many people pay large sums of money even when they are not guitly, and you probably know that) but that doesn't make it ok to tell others they have no right to express their feelings.

[Stramash]

Neo, I did not say that people did not have the RIGHT to express their feelings, I said I was disgusted by those feelings. There is a difference.

My right to have those feelings too, whether expressed in few words or in hundreds.

since you seem to be so big on people's rights, what about the rights of the children?

[LakeGeneve]

As Tonia pointed out, he was an *alleged* child abuser. So we'll probably never know whether the world had any reason to heap more vitriol and harassment on him than any other alleged child abuser in history (no pun intended). I wasn't aware that we were adhering to the community stoning version of justice these days.

Most thai police allegedly engage in corruption but it is unheard of one being convicted of such!

Bill Clinton allegely had an affair with an intern but it was never proved. Quite a few rich people are alleged to have committed offences, charged and subsequently the charges withdrawn. Plenty of innocent people are convicted just as there are plenty of offenders who are not found guilty of an offence. The criminal justice system is not always correct when it comes to the issue guilt or innocence.

There is a certain point where ones consistent conduct, actions and comments strongly characterise a reality that does not require adjudication by a tribunal. He was never convicted but really how blind do you have to be with those rose tinted glasses. I dont doubt that some have also exploited his weakness and he was subject to some false allegations.

That doesn't detract from his immense talents and what he gave to the music industry. However, like many infamous people he will have a mixed legacy.

[Neo]

Neo, I did not say that people did not have the RIGHT to express their feelings, I said I was disgusted by those feelings. There is a difference.

Fair enough. Although you may be offending people on this site with the way you've expressed it, but that's up to you.

since you seem to be so big on people's rights, what about the rights of the children?

That's what the justice system is for. Is it the public's right to abuse anyone who *they* see as having avoided justice? Bring back the lynch mobs! Or did they ever really go away?

[Stramash]

Neo, I did not say that people did not have the RIGHT to express their feelings, I said I was disgusted by those feelings. There is a difference.

Fair enough. Although you may be offending people on this site with the way you've expressed it, but that's up to you.

since you seem to be so big on people's rights, what about the rights of the children?

That's what the justice system is for. Is it the public's right to abuse anyone who *they* see as having avoided justice? Bring back the lynch mobs! Or did they ever really go away?

Well the 'being offended' goes both ways, so I suppose that balances out.

And yes, the justice system; in all its glorious perfection. A system where, no matter where you are in the world, your social status can often affect the likelihood of the system doing you justice.

Look at some research into child abuse.

By far the highest percentage of documented child abuse cases takes place in families of low social status and/or low income.

Does that mean that middle and high class families are not perpetrators of child abuse?

No, it just means that they are not investigated, caught or brought to justice as much.

And also remember, child abuse is not defined as only sexual abuse.

The official definitions of abuse include; sexual, physical, psychological, financial and neglect. So having 'smelly fingers' would not be the only indicator of guilt in MJ's cae. Those who believe there were absolutely no foundations to any of the allegations against MJ are blinkered against reality.

I am sure that the coming months will see much more information coming out of the woodwork. Some of it will be false and sensationalist, but some of it will be true and shocking.

I am convinced that by the time this year is out, there will be no dount whatsoever that the man was a child abuser of the worst kind.

And yes, when the sh*t does hit the fan, I will be the first to start a thread entitled 'I told you so.'

[Neo]

Mangpong are selling the Thai edition of Michael Jackson King Of Pop cd's for 399. It's got an amazing selection of tracks:

CD 1

Black Or White

Smooth Criminal

Bad

Beat It

Billie Jean

Thriller

Don?t Stop ?Til You Get Enough

Wanna Be Startin? Somethin?

The Way You Make Me Feel

Off the Wall

Remember The Time

You Rock My World

Give In To Me

Jam

Scream

Blood On The Dance Floor

They Don?t Care About Us

CD 2

We Are The World( Demo)

Heal The World

You Are Not Alone

Childhood

Will You Be There

The Girl Is Mine

Human Nature

I just can?t stop loving you

She?s out of my life

Man in the mirror

Rock With You

Blame It On The Boogie

Say Say Say( with Paul McCartney)

Earth Song

Stranger In Moscow

I Just Can?t Stop Loving You( Spanish Version)

One More Chance

... all of which are now on my phone 8)

[GoodKarma]

Neo, I did not say that people did not have the RIGHT to express their feelings, I said I was disgusted by those feelings. There is a difference.

Fair enough. Although you may be offending people on this site with the way you've expressed it, but that's up to you.

since you seem to be so big on people's rights, what about the rights of the children?

That's what the justice system is for. Is it the public's right to abuse anyone who *they* see as having avoided justice? Bring back the lynch mobs! Or did they ever really go away?

Well the 'being offended' goes both ways, so I suppose that balances out.

And yes, the justice system; in all its glorious perfection. A system where, no matter where you are in the world, your social status can often affect the likelihood of the system doing you justice.

Look at some research into child abuse.

By far the highest percentage of documented child abuse cases takes place in families of low social status and/or low income.

Does that mean that middle and high class families are not perpetrators of child abuse?

No, it just means that they are not investigated, caught or brought to justice as much.

And also remember, child abuse is not defined as only sexual abuse.

The official definitions of abuse include; sexual, physical, psychological, financial and neglect. So having 'smelly fingers' would not be the only indicator of guilt in MJ's cae. Those who believe there were absolutely no foundations to any of the allegations against MJ are blinkered against reality.

I am sure that the coming months will see much more information coming out of the woodwork. Some of it will be false and sensationalist, but some of it will be true and shocking.

I am convinced that by the time this year is out, there will be no dount whatsoever that the man was a child abuser of the worst kind.

And yes, when the sh*t does hit the fan, I will be the first to start a thread entitled 'I told you so.'

OMG..

I Am a ****** you know I always respect your opinion dude..

Of course nobody likes or admires abusers of the innocent...

Did he do it..Did he not do it.. who knows money drives

people to do crazy things to get it. It went to court it wasn't proved that still doesn't mean he didn't do it right? we all know a trained lawyer could make my grandmother look guilty. im not a trained lawyer or judge. ok fair enough.

I really don't want to stir up any controversy either nobody answers my posts as it is. :wink: not that they are not interesting cause they are... I think on this thread it is just about a lot of people connected to his music and not his out of the studio shananagans. I am not sure why the human psyque does this but it does it tends to connect to the accomplishments of the evil and not so evil. I find myself doing this as well. some of the founding fathers of the US owned slaves some truly innocent humans the 3rd president owned them and even had children with his slaves. should I not admire them for their great contributions to my country or even enjoy the freedoms that they have created in the US of course not. I love my country and god bless it. Little boy and Fat man was dropped on Japan. Should all japanese hate americans? Should we hate Germans because of their past? of course not. good deeds should not be unnoticed and bad deeds should not be overlooked. I do however feel that those that want to scold or ridicule the bad deeds of these great countries and people have the right to do so and should speak their mind about it. Don't misinterpret my post.. abuse of the innocent is wrong seniors kids or the poor cats dogs animals etc. abuse is wrong and I would never condone it.....I hope everyone has a great weekend!! im out... peace...

[Stramash]

Neo, I did not say that people did not have the RIGHT to express their feelings, I said I was disgusted by those feelings. There is a difference.

Fair enough. Although you may be offending people on this site with the way you've expressed it, but that's up to you.

since you seem to be so big on people's rights, what about the rights of the children?

That's what the justice system is for. Is it the public's right to abuse anyone who *they* see as having avoided justice? Bring back the lynch mobs! Or did they ever really go away?

Well the 'being offended' goes both ways, so I suppose that balances out.

And yes, the justice system; in all its glorious perfection. A system where, no matter where you are in the world, your social status can often affect the likelihood of the system doing you justice.

Look at some research into child abuse.

By far the highest percentage of documented child abuse cases takes place in families of low social status and/or low income.

Does that mean that middle and high class families are not perpetrators of child abuse?

No, it just means that they are not investigated, caught or brought to justice as much.

And also remember, child abuse is not defined as only sexual abuse.

The official definitions of abuse include; sexual, physical, psychological, financial and neglect. So having 'smelly fingers' would not be the only indicator of guilt in MJ's cae. Those who believe there were absolutely no foundations to any of the allegations against MJ are blinkered against reality.

I am sure that the coming months will see much more information coming out of the woodwork. Some of it will be false and sensationalist, but some of it will be true and shocking.

I am convinced that by the time this year is out, there will be no dount whatsoever that the man was a child abuser of the worst kind.

And yes, when the sh*t does hit the fan, I will be the first to start a thread entitled 'I told you so.'

OMG..

I Am a ****** you know I always respect your opinion dude..

Of course nobody likes or admires abusers of the innocent...

Did he do it..Did he not do it.. who knows money drives

people to do crazy things to get it. It went to court it wasn't proved that still doesn't mean he didn't do it right? we all know a trained lawyer could make my grandmother look guilty. im not a trained lawyer or judge. ok fair enough.

I really don't want to stir up any controversy either nobody answers my posts as it is. :wink: not that they are not interesting cause they are... I think on this thread it is just about a lot of people connected to his music and not his out of the studio shananagans. I am not sure why the human psyque does this but it does it tends to connect to the accomplishments of the evil and not so evil. I find myself doing this as well. some of the founding fathers of the US owned slaves some truly innocent humans the 3rd president owned them and even had children with his slaves. should I not admire them for their great contributions to my country or even enjoy the freedoms that they have created in the US of course not. I love my country and god bless it. Little boy and Fat man was dropped on Japan. Should all japanese hate americans? Should we hate Germans because of their past? of course not. good deeds should not be unnoticed and bad deeds should not be overlooked. I do however feel that those that want to scold or ridicule the bad deeds of these great countries and people have the right to do so and should speak their mind about it. Don't misinterpret my post.. abuse of the innocent is wrong seniors kids or the poor cats dogs animals etc. abuse is wrong and I would never condone it.....I hope everyone has a great weekend!! im out... peace...

GK - a very well thought out post, perhaps the best on this thread. My vitriol I suppose comes from 2 places; 1) I have a natural abhorrence of all child abusers (as I know 99.99% of people do) and this comes from several roots as well as the training in the area I have done and the stories I have read in case files. but there is also 2) I was a HUGE fan of MJ's music. I always thought him a bit strange, even before the allegations, but that is a trait of several of my favourite musicians; from Roky Erikson to Syd Barrett, from Prince to George Clinton. So, as many of these allegations did unfold, as the massive bribe was paid to make the court case go away and as factors came out that I recognised as indicative of him being an abuser (and please refer to my post regarding the different types of abuse) then on many levels I felt truly betrayed. I used to drop several MJ tunes into long tecnho and rave sets in the 90's; and they were always guaranteed to get the floor jumping, so his music really did cross genres with ease.

I know where you are trying to go with your analogies of other 'harms'. But the presidents/slavery ones are not comparable. Slavery was an accepted (though intrinsically wrong) part of society then, and without the incomes generated by their slaves on their estates, many of the reformers may not have been in the position to institute reform. So you could almost class their slave owning as a necessary evil.

And the bomb dropping; these were the actions of a few individuals representing a nation, not the nation itself. So while it would be understandable for the Japanese to hate the individual who gave the order, it would not be logical to hate the entire nation.

MJ was an individual. As I have said before, there are many aspects of his life which can help explain his abusive behaviour (I also have a suspicion that MJ suffered from Aspergers, though I dont know if it was ever diagnosed), bjut nothing excuses that behaviour.

He used his money, power and lifestyle to place himself in a position to abuse young boys and to cover up what he had done and evade justice through those same things.

Something that has not been mentioned is that this is a betrayal of trust; just as if a gym coach or teacher abused a child; they were in a position of trust with young people in their charge, and they took advantage and betrayed that trust.

I do hope that one day I can listen to MJ's tunes again without thinking 'beast', but while millions pray for MJ, I will pray for the children he abused, that one day they may be able to bury or forget any bad memories, to lead lives free of the horror of molestation and to avoid becoming trapped in a cycle of abuse.

Again, GK, thanks for the post (see people do reply to you) and have a peaceful weekend!

[allseasonsman]

Well I can now believe that he is not dead at all and this is just one big and elaborate fake death to let him get away and lead a new life.

Some reports say that he had converted to ISLAM and is now in the hills with Osama Bin Laden and the boys. Apparently he is turning over a new leaf and had enough of all the fame and pressure etc etc.

Its all a big cover up and the main media are in on it too because they have already invested so much in the story that they cannot back down and tell the truth for fear of the consequences. So basically we can all forget about it and relax in the knowledge that MJ is sipping tequila on a beach some where with another fruit cake called Diana and some old guys called Jim Morrison and Elvis. They in turn have been cryogenic ally frozen for twenty years and have been spotted here and there over the years.

Anyway MJ is not dead- I seen it on the internet!

[eagle]

Well I can now believe that he is not dead at all and this is just one big and elaborate fake death to let him get away and lead a new life.

Some reports say that he had converted to ISLAM and is now in the hills with Osama Bin Laden and the boys. Apparently he is turning over a new leaf and had enough of all the fame and pressure etc etc.

Its all a big cover up and the main media are in on it too because they have already invested so much in the story that they cannot back down and tell the truth for fear of the consequences. So basically we can all forget about it and relax in the knowledge that MJ is sipping tequila on a beach some where with another fruit cake called Diana and some old guys called Jim Morrison and Elvis. They in turn have been cryogenic ally frozen for twenty years and have been spotted here and there over the years.

Anyway MJ is not dead- I seen it on the internet!

use the toilet :roll:

[Stramash]

Well I can now believe that he is not dead at all and this is just one big and elaborate fake death to let him get away and lead a new life.

Some reports say that he had converted to ISLAM and is now in the hills with Osama Bin Laden and the boys. Apparently he is turning over a new leaf and had enough of all the fame and pressure etc etc.

Its all a big cover up and the main media are in on it too because they have already invested so much in the story that they cannot back down and tell the truth for fear of the consequences. So basically we can all forget about it and relax in the knowledge that MJ is sipping tequila on a beach some where with another fruit cake called Diana and some old guys called Jim Morrison and Elvis. They in turn have been cryogenic ally frozen for twenty years and have been spotted here and there over the years.

Anyway MJ is not dead- I seen it on the internet!

use the toilet :roll:

think that was Elvis, not MJ.

:wink:

[GoodKarma]

Neo, I did not say that people did not have the RIGHT to express their feelings, I said I was disgusted by those feelings. There is a difference.

Fair enough. Although you may be offending people on this site with the way you've expressed it, but that's up to you.

since you seem to be so big on people's rights, what about the rights of the children?

That's what the justice system is for. Is it the public's right to abuse anyone who *they* see as having avoided justice? Bring back the lynch mobs! Or did they ever really go away?

Well the 'being offended' goes both ways, so I suppose that balances out.

And yes, the justice system; in all its glorious perfection. A system where, no matter where you are in the world, your social status can often affect the likelihood of the system doing you justice.

Look at some research into child abuse.

By far the highest percentage of documented child abuse cases takes place in families of low social status and/or low income.

Does that mean that middle and high class families are not perpetrators of child abuse?

No, it just means that they are not investigated, caught or brought to justice as much.

And also remember, child abuse is not defined as only sexual abuse.

The official definitions of abuse include; sexual, physical, psychological, financial and neglect. So having 'smelly fingers' would not be the only indicator of guilt in MJ's cae. Those who believe there were absolutely no foundations to any of the allegations against MJ are blinkered against reality.

I am sure that the coming months will see much more information coming out of the woodwork. Some of it will be false and sensationalist, but some of it will be true and shocking.

I am convinced that by the time this year is out, there will be no dount whatsoever that the man was a child abuser of the worst kind.

And yes, when the sh*t does hit the fan, I will be the first to start a thread entitled 'I told you so.'

OMG..

I Am a ****** you know I always respect your opinion dude..

Of course nobody likes or admires abusers of the innocent...

Did he do it..Did he not do it.. who knows money drives

people to do crazy things to get it. It went to court it wasn't proved that still doesn't mean he didn't do it right? we all know a trained lawyer could make my grandmother look guilty. im not a trained lawyer or judge. ok fair enough.

I really don't want to stir up any controversy either nobody answers my posts as it is. :wink: not that they are not interesting cause they are... I think on this thread it is just about a lot of people connected to his music and not his out of the studio shananagans. I am not sure why the human psyque does this but it does it tends to connect to the accomplishments of the evil and not so evil. I find myself doing this as well. some of the founding fathers of the US owned slaves some truly innocent humans the 3rd president owned them and even had children with his slaves. should I not admire them for their great contributions to my country or even enjoy the freedoms that they have created in the US of course not. I love my country and god bless it. Little boy and Fat man was dropped on Japan. Should all japanese hate americans? Should we hate Germans because of their past? of course not. good deeds should not be unnoticed and bad deeds should not be overlooked. I do however feel that those that want to scold or ridicule the bad deeds of these great countries and people have the right to do so and should speak their mind about it. Don't misinterpret my post.. abuse of the innocent is wrong seniors kids or the poor cats dogs animals etc. abuse is wrong and I would never condone it.....I hope everyone has a great weekend!! im out... peace...

GK - a very well thought out post, perhaps the best on this thread. My vitriol I suppose comes from 2 places; 1) I have a natural abhorrence of all child abusers (as I know 99.99% of people do) and this comes from several roots as well as the training in the area I have done and the stories I have read in case files. but there is also 2) I was a HUGE fan of MJ's music. I always thought him a bit strange, even before the allegations, but that is a trait of several of my favourite musicians; from Roky Erikson to Syd Barrett, from Prince to George Clinton. So, as many of these allegations did unfold, as the massive bribe was paid to make the court case go away and as factors came out that I recognised as indicative of him being an abuser (and please refer to my post regarding the different types of abuse) then on many levels I felt truly betrayed. I used to drop several MJ tunes into long tecnho and rave sets in the 90's; and they were always guaranteed to get the floor jumping, so his music really did cross genres with ease.

I know where you are trying to go with your analogies of other 'harms'. But the presidents/slavery ones are not comparable. Slavery was an accepted (though intrinsically wrong) part of society then, and without the incomes generated by their slaves on their estates, many of the reformers may not have been in the position to institute reform. So you could almost class their slave owning as a necessary evil.

And the bomb dropping; these were the actions of a few individuals representing a nation, not the nation itself. So while it would be understandable for the Japanese to hate the individual who gave the order, it would not be logical to hate the entire nation.

MJ was an individual. As I have said before, there are many aspects of his life which can help explain his abusive behaviour (I also have a suspicion that MJ suffered from Aspergers, though I dont know if it was ever diagnosed), bjut nothing excuses that behaviour.

He used his money, power and lifestyle to place himself in a position to abuse young boys and to cover up what he had done and evade justice through those same things.

Something that has not been mentioned is that this is a betrayal of trust; just as if a gym coach or teacher abused a child; they were in a position of trust with young people in their charge, and they took advantage and betrayed that trust.

I do hope that one day I can listen to MJ's tunes again without thinking 'beast', but while millions pray for MJ, I will pray for the children he abused, that one day they may be able to bury or forget any bad memories, to lead lives free of the horror of molestation and to avoid becoming trapped in a cycle of abuse.

Again, GK, thanks for the post (see people do reply to you) and have a peaceful weekend!

My main point is that I connect with the music and not the Man.

of course slavery human abuse and child abuse of innocent undeveloped children is wrong.your very point that slavery was a necessary economic evil.."abuse of breathing humans" was necessary is a proof positive that evils are justified to the means. and how people tend to overlook the bad traits of influential people or concepts.

they of course are both not the same abuses but both revolve around human conditions and maybe sub categorized together. Not to mention how much human cargo was lost at sea in hurricanes etc. but this post is not about that it's about how the two things tie into human psyche. god forbid child or senior or animal abuse will ever be accepted due to it being a concensual acceptablilty like slavery was at the time. You always reply to my post so that was not directed at you :wink: trust me people do not forget the bad deeds of some but somehow tend to remember the good deeds im not sure how the mental psyche does this but it does that was my point im not sure maybe because its music and the brain associates it with good times. kinda like a barry white song who knows. and if you were american or japanese in japan or america at the time the propganda was fierce. I am glad you show your disdane for the man it is expected and im sure a lot of people that want to post what they really feel is either scared etc. who knows. my last post was just explaining how people tend to seperate the artist with the painting or the product. If you have training in the area of child abuse more power to you and please by all means keep up the good work. very good reply earlier by the way

l8ther.... 8)

[allseasonsman]

Well I can now believe that he is not dead at all and this is just one big and elaborate fake death to let him get away and lead a new life.

Some reports say that he had converted to ISLAM and is now in the hills with Osama Bin Laden and the boys. Apparently he is turning over a new leaf and had enough of all the fame and pressure etc etc.

Its all a big cover up and the main media are in on it too because they have already invested so much in the story that they cannot back down and tell the truth for fear of the consequences. So basically we can all forget about it and relax in the knowledge that MJ is sipping tequila on a beach some where with another fruit cake called Diana and some old guys called Jim Morrison and Elvis. They in turn have been cryogenic ally frozen for twenty years and have been spotted here and there over the years.

Anyway MJ is not dead- I seen it on the internet!

use the toilet :roll:

U get a bigger toilet :roll:

[allseasonsman]

As a man, his tragedy was that he was denied a childhood and, in his untimely death, was deprived of a full adulthood too

THE CHILD STAR deprived of a childhood has become the adult deprived of adulthood. The tragic irony of Michael Jackson?s untimely demise at the age of 50 is that in three weeks he was supposed to have been launching a spectacular comeback with a series of shows at London?s 02 Arena. Now, in keeping with the pattern established by the early deaths of Elvis and John Lennon, the comeback will be huger than anyone could ever have expected.

Expect next weekend?s album and singles chart to feature the undisputed King of Pop at No 1 as people rush to the shops to commemorate him in the only way they see fit: by listening again to the mesmerising sounds of arguably the most unique performer in popular music history.

Jackson had already postponed the opening night of his comeback in London by a week because he was concerned about his physical fitness and his ability to recreate his trademark exhilarating dance moves. It is not inconceivable that his strenuous fitness routines of the last few weeks precipitated yesterday?s fatal heart attack. ?I don?t know how I?m going to do 50 shows. I?m not a big eater ? I need to put some weight on,? he said just last week. All 750,000 tickets for his first live shows in over a decade had been sold.

For someone who set the bar so high in terms of the quality of his live performance and its stunning choreography, Jackson ? as the professional he has been since six years of age ? was determined that these new shows would not be anaemic imitations of his now legendary Thriller -era live appearances but performances that would somehow re-establish him as a global music phenomenon.

But the squeeze was always on: it?s no secret that the star had severe financial problems (?he?s a millionaire spending like he is a billionaire,? said one aide) and he needed to do this run of shows which would have netted him a minimum of ?50 million. But he has had serious health problems.

His body had been ravaged by demanding dance routines and he had talked openly about his addiction to various prescription drugs. There was also talk of a serious lung complaint and continuing complications arising from his many plastic surgery procedures. When he last appeared in front of the media ? to announce the comeback shows in London a few months ago ? his frame was skeletal and his skin was pallid. He barely made it through the two-minute press conference.

Even the show?s promoters were uneasy about Jackson?s ability to carry off the shows ? a complex insurance policy was drawn up and it is understood that the singer had to provide a medical report before any contracts were signed. Bookmakers offered odds that he wouldn?t even make the first concert date.

ALL THIS WILL be forgotten over the coming weeks as the image of the unnaturally transformed and bizarre-looking 50-year-old is replaced by that of the fresh-faced young black man who reshaped the musical landscape. There simply is no gainsaying his massive musical contribution although some, both inside and outside the music industry, remain repelled by the allegations of child abuse that were made against Jackson.

Jackson?s life, even as a child, never resembled anything approaching ?normality?. Born into a working-class family in Indiana in 1958, he was fast-tracked into the family business ? the child pop group that comprised Michael and his siblings: The Jacksons. Defying the then colour bar in the US music industry, the wholesome-looking all-singing, all-dancing Jacksons were nationwide pop phenomena and at the age of six Jackson was a semi-professional who would be asked for his autograph by adult fans. Jackson has talked about how his father physically and verbally abused him as a child and how he developed an eating disorder (provoked by a fear of his father?s discipline) by the age of seven.

Before he was a teenager, Rolling Stone magazine had singled him out as the ?the main draw? in the now-named Jackson Five and remarked very favourably on the child?s ?piping voice, grown-up hoofer and vocal inflections similar to Sam Cooke, James Brown, Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder?.

Even at this stage his record company had decided that it would put all its chips on his solo career and he was assiduously groomed as a superstar-in-waiting. He began releasing solo albums that were musically innovative in how they fused soul, r?n?b and pop. His Thriller album of 1982 was a revelation ? an edgy amalgam of diffuse musical styles that became the biggest-selling album of all time (with over 100 million copies sold).

Thriller managed to satisfy both the musical purists and casual one-album-a-year fans. All pop is rooted in black music stylings and what Jackson and producer Quincy Jones managed to do was to join the musical dots between ?black? and ?white? music. Time magazine wrote on its release: ?Jackson is a one-man rescue team for the music business. A songwriter who sets the beat for a decade. A dancer with the fanciest feet on the street. A singer who cuts across all boundaries of taste and style and color.?

Though MTV never admitted this as official policy, the station at this time did not play videos by black artists. With the global success of Thriller , the station had no choice and Jackson became the first black musician it featured.

Jackson has talked about how it was at this time, with his face appearing on television screens and magazines all around the world, and when he first became painfully self-conscious about his appearance. A pigmentation disorder (perhaps stress-related) called vitiligo caused his skin to form irregular white patches and the treatment for it effectively left his skin ?depigmented? ? hence its ghostly look. It always distressed the man who could remember not being served in ?white-only? restaurants as a child that he was accused of trying to become white.

He first went under the plastic surgeon?s knife after Thriller?s success ? having a rhinoplasty procedure (?nose job?) and a cleft (supposed to be ?cute-looking? but anything but) inserted in his chin.

He had numerous follow-up ?corrective? plastic surgeries ? to the extent that he became virtually unrecognisable from how he appeared on the cover of Thriller.

There was a concurrent deterioration in his behaviour: he developed ?eccentric? habits (although at least half of the more bizarre claims about his lifestyle are merely tabloid invention) and he desperately seemed to be trying, as an adult, to reclaim a childhood he never had.

He lived in a glorified amusement park, spoke in a squeaky child?s voice (that?s not his real voice by the way, it?s an affectation) and surrounded himself with children.

In a music industry more used to the vices of drink and drugs, Jackson was indulged as being benignly weird. But ?eccentricity? spilled over into ?sinister? in 1993 when a 13-year-old boy, Jordy Chandler, accused the singer of child molestation. The charge was dropped, however, when Chandler later refused to testify against his ?best friend Michael?. It is alleged that Jackson paid Chandler?s family ?20 million to have the charges dropped. His friends, who later quizzed him about why, if he was innocent of the charges, he paid out $20 million, report that Jackson said he just wanted the case to go away because a trial would do irreparable damage to his music career. In the wake of the Chandler incident, Jackson developed a drug addiction and his childhood bulimia re-manifested itself.

Shortly after, in what many at first took to be an April Fool?s joke, it was announced that Jackson had married Elvis Presley?s daughter, Lisa Marie. The unlikely alliance was believed by many to be an attempt at rehabilitating his image in the public eye. The couple divorced two years later. To this day, Lisa Marie Presley says the couple married out of love ? telling this journalist once that she and Jackson enjoyed ?a normal sex life?. Jackson went on to marry a nurse, Debbie Rowe, with whom he had a son, Michael, and a daughter, Paris.

When the couple divorced in 1999 she handed over full custody of the children to Jackson. Again, the rumour was that a large sum of money changed hands. Jackson also has another son, known as ?Blanket? (real name Prince Michael II), conceived through artificial insemination (he has never revealed the mother?s identity). It was Blanket who he so recklessly dangled over a hotel balcony in Berlin a few years ago.

By this stage of his life, he had dried up as a creative force. He would never rescale the heights of hi s Thriller and Bad period and his last ever album, 2001?s Invincible , was a tepid and unloved affair. Tours came and went and there were still coruscating stage routines but that was all soon to be relegated to footnote status by the screening in 2002 of a documentary in which Jackson was interviewed by the journalist Martin Bashir.In the programme (an attempt to capture the ?real? Michael Jackson), the singer said that he shared his bed with a 12-year-old-boy, Gavin Arvizo. When Bashir expressed no little surprise ? given previous allegations ? the singer artlessly said these were just ?innocent sleepovers?. A few months later ? after, according to Jackson, he stopped financially supporting Arvizo?s family ? he was charged with seven counts of child molestation on Gavin Arvizo. The trial was a media circus and Jackson was eventually acquitted of all charges. A mental health professional who studied Jackson?s psychological profile surmised that he was not typical paedophile material but instead had regressed to being a 10-year-old boy. It was some reflection of the celebrity culture we live under that during the trial all of Jackson?s albums re-entered the charts due to huge sales and, even as he was walking daily into the courtroom, parents would be holding up their young children (normally white, normally young boys) and shouting: ?Please take him Michael; he will be your new friend.?

Only his die-hard fans (of whom there are many) believed that Jackson was a ?victim? ? betrayed by those closest to him for financial gain. For everyone else there was the troubling evidence of a middle-aged man admitting he shared his bed with young boys.

He never toured or recorded anything of real substance following the Arvizo case. There were sporadic sightings of him in different locations around the world behaving strangely ? in Las Vegas last year he was seen walking the streets in his pyjamas. There still was a way back musically after the court case (the music industry tolerates all forms of egregious behaviour by its main players) but Jackson was a busted flush.

It was the loss of his beloved Neverland mansion in California last year (due to financial difficulties) that by all accounts prompted his live comeback shows. With no new material to push, these shows were only going to be ?greatest hits? affairs, done out of economic necessity. But even the most cynical observer couldn?t stifle the thrill that this magnificent performer could still dazzle and daze ? that he somehow could recreate that moment of light entertainment shock and awe when he famously debuted his trademark ?moonwalk? dance at a Tamla Motown concert in 1983. To the millions who applied for 02 tickets, his appearance, the state of his health and all the disturbing allegations simply didn?t matter when weighed against the chance of seeing the most important and influential musical figure since Elvis Presley.

The music industry will now have its Princess Diana moment. Meanwhile, the record-pressing plants are already working overtime to service the public need for Jackson product, and before the weekend is out, all the over-priced ?commemorative? tat will be hitting the shelves to get one last return from a man who has been public property and a financial cash-cow for the majority of his life.

But do try to look again at that famous rendition of Billie Jean at the Tamla Motown Concert of 1983. It is one of the most stunning and electrifying pieces of music television ever. As a writer, singer and dancer he was a genius. And this shy young man from Indiana was responsible for demolishing a reprehensible colour bar in the music industry.

As for all the assorted ?lifestyle? issues ? to paraphrase Yeats: you simply can?t separate the singer from the song or the dancer from the dance. Indeed, Jackson represented a ?beauty born out of its own despair?. F Scott Fitzgerald got it right all those years ago: ?Show me a hero and I?ll write you a tragedy.?

[eagle]

ahhh the literary genius of the cut and paste :roll:

cut and duh paste mmmmmm WOW :roll:

[Stramash]

I'm impressed by your literary style - have you ever considered writing like that for a newspaper or magazine ASM?

:wink:

[eagle]

I'm impressed by your literary style - have you ever considered writing like that for a newspaper or magazine ASM?

:wink:

its the literary equivalent of lip syncing.....

[allseasonsman]

ahhh the literary genius of the cut and paste :roll:

cut and duh paste mmmmmm WOW :roll:

I assumed it was very clear indeed that this is a copy and paste? From the Irish Times website if your interested. I dont agree with much of what is asserted in the article but it does mention many good points too. Worth a look in parts anyway.

Here is another curious piece

http://anthillonline.com/michael-jackson-is-not-dead/

[Stramash]

I'm impressed by your literary style - have you ever considered writing like that for a newspaper or magazine ASM?

:wink:

its the literary equivalent of lip syncing.....

are you saying ASM is TF's version of Milli Vannilli??

[Stramash]

ahhh the literary genius of the cut and paste :roll:

cut and duh paste mmmmmm WOW :roll:

I assumed it was very clear indeed that this is a copy and paste? From the Irish Times website if your interested. I dont agree with much of what is asserted in the article but it does mention many good points too. Worth a look in parts anyway.

Here is another curious piece

http://anthillonline.com/michael-jackson-is-not-dead/

of course it was obvious ASM, but is just nice to post the link to the original article when you post. (section 4 of the 2008 cut and paste etiquette accord signed in Kuala Lumpur on the 7th August 2008)

(from http://www.cut_and_paste_etiquette_accord_2008.org)

[Pinku_Berry]

already saw on TV last morning... nothing new!!

I wonder if people will say that when you die. :roll:

i mean the news... i already knew that he dead today that just what i mean.

u should try to understand what i said b4 you said like that. be smart.

marc is smarter than everyone...didn't you know that?

Yeh?

Stalker!

[Stramash]

already saw on TV last morning... nothing new!!

I wonder if people will say that when you die. :roll:

i mean the news... i already knew that he dead today that just what i mean.

u should try to understand what i said b4 you said like that. be smart.

marc is smarter than everyone...didn't you know that?

Yeh?

Stalker!

Don't encourage him Pinku. He already has 37 restraining orders against him. (apparently the current Thai record) :wink:

[eagle]

Neo, I did not say that people did not have the RIGHT to express their feelings, I said I was disgusted by those feelings. There is a difference.

My right to have those feelings too, whether expressed in few words or in hundreds.

since you seem to be so big on people's rights, what about the rights of the children?

I agree his sleep overs were inappropriate but don't feel the parents should get money. They let their children stay there and were responsible. Michael was rich and twisted yes but like the parents couldn't see the guy was a bit strange and effeminate.

[drlovelife8]

HE had at the very least very inappropriate realtionships with young boys, i don't know if he f**ked those boys but if i shared a bed with young boys i am sure eye brows would be raised, and if they wwere young girls a serious problem would occur...

ALL IN ALL, THE DEAD FUCKER DOESN'T DESERVE TO BREATH.