The other day the Dutch Film "fitna" was released. I anxiously awaited the blow back from this since as usual free speech was the first thing to be hit with threats of violence and mass murder... not only aimed at the makers of the movie but also the country it's self and of course all non-muslims. Yet still nothing is mentioned of the hate filled rehtoric overflowing from mosques around the world.

This is of course done by a small group but when no one points out both sides of a problem the problem just grows! Everything holy doctrine ever written has been used for good and evil. The way it has been stopped is by people pointing out both sides of the problem and this just doesn't seem to be happening with issues related to extremeist islam.

Countries are getting to the point of having to carve themselves up (or considering it) to make seaprate "muslim states" such as the philipines and rumored talks about the same thing happening in Thailand have been heard inside some military halls. Turkey has had more extremeist connected people put in power and laws being revoked towards secularism causing mass protests. Even bastions of higher learning in the US have forbidden students from using their gyms during certain hours because they have made it for islamic females, however I think they are saying it's just male off limits until women start being pressured to either dress more conservatively for their workouts or yoga or whatever or leave. This has happened in other schools where the "student lounge" the place to congregate and socialize also to study was turned into a Islamic prayer room. None of the universities had allowed any other religious group to do this and the Islamic groups were forcing out students from suing the facilities they were ment for and other religious groups from wiccans to catholics all had to worship off campus.

Why are special rules being made for one group? What is happening the freedoms we hold dear?

WHat will happen to those who have left the oppressive rules of these strict interprations of the Koran and now are faced with it again? Are we truly headed towards a holy war? Where the only way to protect your Liquor, porn, and women in the workplace, bikinni's and things we hodl important like right to choose going to be gone?

Islam has surpassed Chatolicism as the dominate religion recently which is not hard when countries make LAWS that you if you talk about anyother religion you can be impressioned or put to death, is it?

**** off you stupid racist *****.

Are you a Catholic Paul?

no I'm not beej n you're sucj a great intellectual love the comments

**** wit.

but yet instead of denying any of what I've said about the special treatment given to Muslims across the world (which you can't because they are in fact factual) nor can you deny their actions of violence across the world in countries often not having anything to do with what they are committing those acts of violence against (i.e bombings in of civilians airlines, civilian hotels, the UN missions in various countries so instead of pointing a light at how this message of peace is being corrupted you choose to just hide your head which is fine... that's what great about democracy. I know when it's the klan, or skin heads, nazi's or some other group you will be first i n line condeming them and saying how their faith (which is usually chrisitian based) is at the root blah blah blah.

Same old story but always great having this intellectual conversation with you

All I say, regardless the content of Fitna, which I saw personally, is that it is hard to find anything as scary as when some individuals or groups generalize or point out some subsets of ppl inside groups of people or following etc and say they are violent people or with violent tendencies and then these people respond with violence saying that they are not violent. That is twisted if anything. And I see absolutely no absolution or anything forgivable in the actions of those people who respond to words with violence. .....freaking scary.

You just do not proof that you are non-violent person by debating by doing acts of violence against people who have thrown words against you, nor by attacking people who are totally innocent to the words spit at you.

My two cents.

You about as intellectual as a pot of pig **** paul thats why I don't bother to have an intellectual conversation with you!

1. You believe everything the TV says.

2. You like to think that ALL Muslims are out to kill you/destroy good ol' Amerikhan values.

3. Special treatment is given to many groups, races and religions across the world, but you only choose to see the ones given to people of a Muslim faith cause its what they tell you.

Muslims the new 'black'.

'impressioned or put to death, is it?'

Says it all really lol

PeterH61: yep, thats the reason religious leaders are such good allies for politicians. It gives a tool to make people kill others and think they are serving at same time both their god and surprise, surprise doing a big favor also for the nation that sent them to die in the name of their god and motherland. I have understood that was also in Marx's mind? It was not a comment against religion but a comment to "help" politicians see the usefulness that religion can be for their purposes. Sure it works other way around, religious leaders in the other hand want also political power way too often. Power corrupts. Brrr.

I don't have a gang, and I don't like racist fucks like paul.

I'm a VERY tolerant person.

Beej: you are tolerant, but at the same time you dont tolerate racists? Why? Isnt that an oxymoron? Racism and racist violence are different things, arent they. I accept that some ppl might have what others might call "racists ideals" but as such they are part of the freedom of speech area. Hate speech which instigates violence against others on basis of for example "racist" ideas on the other hand is I guess what even the most tolerant persons are ok to be non-tolerant about?

Peter good quote... I was expecting someone to come up with one sooner or later. Even though I'm one of those on the opiate lol.

UK.... I know very distracted so spelling is last on my least really should type these in word first, shouldn't I? lol

Sun.... My point exactly!

Beej.... As I have said many, many, many times and even state in the journals or reference to concern for my friends who are practicing muslims (especially as noted in this particular journal those who left the oppressive interpreatation of the Koran) and those who wish to live secular lives. It's not a fear of muslims or Islam but concern about the hijacking of a religion by a group within it. You say I belive everything I see on tv and yet make no mention of personal experience which I have journaled about, experiences of my friends that have been told to me, or even those of others who have come under firs from the fundementalists of islam. However your great comments are always nice to see.

Hmmm at last something worth reading...........and Peter Mass Media has replaced religion as the opiate of the people these days.....If muslim culture is superior and desirable why do so many muslims live in christian countries?..............interesting

So then paul what IS the point of your journal please sun it up in one line.

As for religious fundamentalists, not so long ago at the end of our road a man bashed a Buddhist statue with a stick, an angry mob of Buddhists attacked him beating him to death. Nice.

beej: and the "funny" thing is that the statue is in front of a friggin' SHOPPING MALL and is not a Buddhist statue but a picture of a Hindu deity...:-/ But heck, who am I to point out the fallacies of Thai buddhism (I only guess that this is the even u refer to, but my point still stands about the Erawan "shrine" incident)

Paul thinks that its wrong that people come from another country and bring their religion and beliefs with them, imposing what they think is 'right' on to Amerikahn society. Wait STOP PRESS........ isn't that what Amerikahn people did not so long ago to the Native American Indians?

that was pretty brutal wasn't it?

Why not accept that people of all religions can co - exist in Amerikah and just deal with the changes to your fragile society instead of spreading your religious fueled hate around like the red neck you are.

Beej, apart from all the posts on this journal. You pull out your guns whenever people tend to say soemthing negative about muslims. LOOK ofcourse not all muslims are like the ones you see in the fitna video and there are loads of muslim people who do have a brain, respect etc. to live with other cultures without bashing their brains even if you don't like them. You are probably one for example otherwise you wouldn't be even reading stuff on this website maybe.

Ofcourse a large amount of people in other cultures or religions suck too, a problem however is that the islam is found in many countries where people don't have a lot going on in their lives and when some imam comes along and says things will be better if you follow Allah's biddings (mostly they aren't but because many muslims just choose to listen the wrong explanations instead of reading themselves, if they are even capeable) things will be better, they've got nothing to loose, it can't get much worse so let's give it a shot is what they think. Another thing is that the muslims want to convert everybody, some of those fuckhead leaders say that not being a muslim is already offensive to the islam etc.

What's up with that? Before you already told me I just believe what cnn says and I already told you I don't watch american newschannels but if you look at the fitna video (I'm not saying it is a good thing) you see mostly imuslim people yelling and shouting, now I don't speak arabic languages but maybe you do, tell me if the subtitles are forged. Those muslim people will cause a 3rd world war if they don't wise up and nobody (except them maybe) wants this to happen. Those "bad" muslims are just such a big menace because they try to convert everybody and making them think their way is the only way, while everybody got a mind of their own and should have the freedom to use it.

Now there's ofcourse luckily a big number of "good" muslims who do believe in Allah but live more liberate and mostly that is because they can take care of themselves by making money, getting their kids in school to give them a shot to become what they want in their lives, maybe they don't want their children to marry other cultures but having dinner on the same table etc. is no problem and that is NO problem just live next to each other and don't get on each others back, live together or die alone.

But the **** Wits (I know you like this word) who are all about taking over the world they should be bitchslapped by Allah himslef to wake them up, surely most of those leaders don't even really believe in him but just use him as a tool to reach the masses

But

thnx dawg

Jomama & Alex> you can just go ahead and stop dividing Brits & Americans and french, dutch, germans, spaniards, portuguese etc. all together the US is nothing more than a BIG number of people who have forgotten who they are, in the end Americans are almost extinct already. Almost all countries have had their aggressive moments, the Roman Empire, Hitler got pretty far, the Persians, Spain took over a big part of Europe in the past including my own little country and the Dutch have started slavery as far as I know everybody made some bad moves at what seemed a proper thing to do back then but it is in the past and although people are always yellingthe worl is getting worse by the day, it's not! Not at all!!! Bu tin my honest opinion a part of muslim society is looking for some history repeating and don't wish to learn from others and their own mistakes, some of them just live back in time, most of things going on invlove muslims EVEN in a peacefull country breathing respect like Thailand in the south region. But it is just a small group which dirties up the whole islam in the eyes of the rest of the world. I'm probably not telling you anything new with tese things. I just hope things won't get out of hand with the part of the world which has been filling their hearts and minds with hate for quite sometime now. And I sure hope the movie from Geert Wilders (which simply was just a bald, unresponsible thing to do for just winning soem more votes which he did but not too much) won't lead to more than it did now, at this moment dutch ambassadors are called to make excuses to the leaders of the countries they reside like Iran, if this is all the consequence it will have I'm one happy dutchman

My problem is just with people who like to tar others with the same brush, paul is clearly one of these people (look at his previous journals). His favorite rant is the anti Muslim rant, and the % of so called 'bad' Muslims around the world equates to such a tiny percentage that its almost not worth putting them under the banner of 'muslims' wouldn't it be better to just put them under the 'extremist' banner?

But no paul is a good ol' bible basher who likes to target and spread hate about who choose to follow the Muslim faith. Thats what makes me sick!

I condemn all violent acts against any animal on earth, I'm for the banning of personal fire arm ownership, and am against all wars be them Holy or for Military gains.

Sadly the hate that the mass media and people like paul spread on a daily basis will only make the world we live in a worse place.

Beej> I agree

Hmmmm nice to read a cooment from you Beej without insult and profanity.........I agree extreme religious fundalmentalism is a faction of most religions, but the Muslim ones seem to murdering the most inocent people at the moment. I dont support the US intervention in Iraq and I believe it will end with another dictator taking political control there.