Saksit Meesubkwang,Chiag Mai Mail, This Week     An anti-government demonstration held July 13 by the People’s Alliance for Democracy at Chiang Mai’s Municipal Stadium has provoked calls for the resignation of the city’s Mayor, Dr. Duentemduang na Chiengmai, according to a report on a Thai news website. A violent clash at the demonstration between PAD and government supporters, has, it is claimed by the Northern Citizens’ Association for Democracy, created conflict amongst local residents. As a result, the NCAD held a further rally on July14, during which a petition was circulated urging the Mayor to take responsibility for her decision to allow the PAD demonstration, and to resign.

    A representative of the NCAD, Jirapat Ruenkaew, stated that his group had not been responsible for the throwing of bottles and rotten food at the PAD protestors, and that his supporters were present as the demonstration simply because they were local people who disagreed with the PAD’s stance. More than 1,000 protestors of both political persuasions attended the PAD rally.

    At the PAD demonstration itself, the initial topic for discussion was the situation regarding Preah Vihear temple. At the end of the discussion, after protesters had heard speeches from Kasit Phirom, former Thai Ambassador to Washington DC, Pichaet Pattanachote, former Senator and others, Chachay Sukhvadee (a famous rock star) sang “We Love The King, we love Thailand,” joined by the crowd. At that point, a large number of demonstrators opposing the PAD blocked the exits to the venue and threw rotten eggs, urine-filled bags, stones and bottles at those who were attempting to leave, showing no consideration for children, women, monks or the elderly. A near riot commenced, with 100 police being brought in to restrain the demonstrators.***This is type conduct by PPP is outrageous, and deplorable. The PPP Perps should be held accountable and prosecuted to full extent of the law. (I know dream on)

It's okay, only one unlucky guy was hurt. Samak said so.

the PAD should be renamed PEOPLE AGAINST DEMOCRACY

Posted by gatsby [ 23 July 2008 | 2:44PM ]

the PAD should be renamed PEOPLE AGAINST DEMOCRACY

>> Why cuz they against GOV. who bought the vote?

14 million people voted for this government darling

and 5000 facist right wing nationlist anti-democratic fools making the biggest noise against

i rather go for the 14,000,000 people

as for vote buying, all the parties are involved including the democrats, just read the anfrel report on the last election

maybe without any millitary intervention trying to sway the last election then maybe 18 million people would have voted for this government

Loburt, as usual you are trying to discredit PPP and Samak. It was not a boy but a girl who suffered a broken unguis. On Samaks direct orders she was evacuated by helicopter to Bangkok where she was operated on last night. A hospital spokesperson said she was now in a stable condition but would remain in the hospital for observation for the next few weeks. Try to get your facts right!

PAD seems to get any matter in its teeth. The whole thing is joke, and more a joke everyday. PAD, People Against Democracy.

PAD presented idea that military should have right to take over government etc. That is what I call People Against Democracy.

PAD just slashes around anything without any real ideology or purpose anymore.

And I seeeriously doubt current government, PPP, bought 14 million votes as Gatsby says the number of votes. Even they are not that rich or capable.

urine filled bags?

I always knew that Thai technology to put soft drinks in plastic bags would be used for darker purposes some day.

PAD presented idea that military should have right to take over government etc. That is what I call People Against Democracy.

>> That's wrong... I don't think you hear them say "ËÅѺà¶Ô´·ËÒáÅéÒ »ÃêҨäØéÃÀÑÂ" "Go sleep tight soidiers, we will protect the country"

Dear Doodoojib, it figures you are a Samak fan. After all, he supported a massacre of students in 1976, served in the coup government that followed, shutting down newspapers and jailing leftists as Interior Minister. He called the demonstrators in 1992 communists and said the army was right to shoot them. Those are FACTS, doodooboy. And I'm not surprised you're rushing to his defense. I'm just surprised you could find the time while working so hard on your tan.

Posted by gatsby [ 23 July 2008 | 3:11PM ]

14 million people voted for this government darling

and 5000 facist right wing nationlist anti-democratic fools making the biggest noise against

i rather go for the 14,000,000 people

>>> It's not only 5000, that was only in Chiangmai...

as for vote buying, all the parties are involved including the democrats, just read the anfrel report on the last election

>>> yes, I read it... if they bought the vote they should go as well, good if we can have young good blood to run the country.

maybe without any millitary intervention trying to sway the last election then maybe 18 million people would have voted for this government

>>> Are you sure?

>>>>"And I seeeriously doubt current government, PPP, bought 14 million votes as Gatsby says the number of votes. Even they are not that rich or capable."

I also don't think the PPP bought ALL 14 million of its votes. But not that rich? They certainly are that rich. It's Thaksin's money, and he's got more than enough to buy all those votes.

P'Loburt....did you hear Samak speech on NBT week or 2 weeks ago...? He said PAD. killed him and his ppl, now it was time to kill back. I was so shock... that was word from the PM. who should take care of there people.

and I'm not sure if you read Nation Sudsubda (Nation weekly) there was letter from Kanok Ratwongsakul to Samak's wife... asked her to teach her husband about manners. He said some rude words those the youth shouldn't hear.

Anyway... you right about money... it was Thaksin's money and this government is his nominee government. Work only one thing... just take Thaksin back in games.

"PAD presented idea that military should have right to take over government etc. That is what I call People Against Democracy.

>> That's wrong... I don't think you hear them say "ËÅѺà¶Ô´·ËÒáÅéÒ »ÃêҨäØéÃÀÑÂ" "Go sleep tight soidiers, we will protect the country""

Actually, you are wrong bcool. Sonthi Limthongkul did present the idea that the military should be allowed to take over the government under certain conditions. I don't agree with Sonthi's ideas at all, or some of Chamlong's.

However, many people who don't support Sonthi's ideas still do support the PAD's right to protest. In fact, a recent poll by the Bangkok Post found that nearly half of all respondents in Bangkok supported continued protests by the PAD.

That's because, while they may not agree with the PAD, they also don't want this government changing laws to fix the cases against Thaksin and get themselves off the hook for vote buying.

That's what brought the PAD into the streets in the first place. Until the government tried to do that, there was no one protesting in the streets.

If Thaksin is innocent, as he claims, then he doesn't need to have his lawyers try to bribe judges or have the government change the laws so he can't be prosecuted.

The right to protest is a basic right in any democracy. So far, just about every bit of violence associated with the PAD protests has come from government supporters. That makes this government as anti-democratic as the PAD.

Loburt, are you hinting that PPP BOUGHT 14 million votes? That would be one of the biggest vote buyings in the history of time. You should do a story on that. You are hinting something that I think many and most people would find appaling, that 14 million Thais or most of them, did not vote out of their own hearts but were just doing so because they were bought. So who the hell in Thailand then votes what they want to vote? Who is then in your opinion voting "right"?

Actually, you are wrong bcool. Sonthi Limthongkul did present the idea that the military should be allowed to take over the government under certain conditions. I don't agree with Sonthi's ideas at all, or some of Chamlong's.

>>> if so I don't support about military at all, but I still support the idea to get them down by people. Actaully, I haven't been there about 3 weeks or more... the idea I said was the first one. Unchalee Paireeruk, one of PAD said sometimes ago that.... "sodiers pls don't bring any tanks.. or old guns just keep them there... we don't want them.

The right to protest is a basic right in any democracy. So far, just about every bit of violence associated with the PAD protests has come from government supporters. That makes this government as anti-democratic as the PAD.

>>> Did I tell you when I was there... people from government supporters ran to the area that I was standing with sticks and steal so scary.... I didn't fight back... they didn't care if we were women, eldery.... they tried to attack....

I also hate violence... I don't wanna see Thai ppl fighting each others... but Gov. is trying to solve problem by this way... I don't know what's it gonna be

Sunsnow, please read what I wrote more carefully. I wrote that I also do not believe that that the PPP bought all its 14 million votes.

I wrote that, as it is Thaksin's money funding the PPP, he does have the money to do so if he needed to. And he has shown time and again that he has no reservations about doing so. And yes, I do believe that a good percentage of the PPP votes were bought, but I can't tell you what percentage. But I never said all 14 million votes were bought.

Just because a politician pays for a vote doesn't automatically mean that the voter wasn't going to vote for that politician anyway.

That's one of the tragedies of Thaksin. He could have won reelection in 2005 without buying votes. He could have cleaned up the election process and still won. It would have been a great service to the nation and dramatically improved his legacy.

But he didn't. He didn't want to. Because he is not the "reformer" he pretended to be in 2000. At heart, he's corrupt.

Who is voting right? It's not for me to say. That's each person's individual choice.

However, in looking at the PPP victory, it's important to note that the party scored a substantial victory in the constituency vote, but was only able to barely edge out the Democrats in the party list vote by the slimmest of margins.

What does that mean?

People generally voted for the member of parliament that had been serving them for years (as NAP, TRT, PPP) because they delivered.

But even many of those 14 million did not vote for the PPP for the party list vote, which is essentially a vote for which party you believe is best suited to run the country. Even many PPP supporters, while choosing their regular elected representative who is from the PPP, cast their votes for the Democrats to run the country.

Sure PAD has right to protest. What brought as you said at first Loburt PAD to the streets has mutated to something different. There is the military intervention thing, there is now the temple issue. They are slashing everywhere and their agenda seems self-serving and protesting for the sake of protests.

You are also doing association by proxy, the fact that PAD people and "government supporters" clash, does not mean GOVERMENT is clashing with PAD people. It is not government controlled police or military protesting against PAD, that would be government vs. PAD.

Also, there are several good reasons for the changes for the consitituion, and those suggestions are not meant to help out somehow Thaksin. After all, how issue of removing the articla about "if the party leaders are found to be guilty of bribery, it leads to dissolution of the party" as Thaksin is not in any political party. So please, list all the proposed changes to the CONSTITUTION that somehow helps Thaksin after the fact. I am sure there is but I have not followed all the proposed changes that carefully so your input is appreciated.

But in general, as Thaksin's alleged crimes happened already. And laws by definition most times affect things and crimes AFTER they have been put into affect. There is some fancy word for this normal law behavior, cant remember it now. But all in all, you cannot sentence someone by new law for what has happened before the law was in affect. So I dont understand how constitutional changes can help Thaksin?

Also, current constitution is after all made by military intervention so it is just very understandable that legal government wants to change what the military put into place.

Yes, I did read that you did not believe that all were bought either, that would be just too silly to claim. But I feel you were feeling that somehow anyway MOST of the 14 million were bought anyway, or "good percentage".

And I still do not see any proof that this is the case, but only your gut feeling that you present in your latest reply. Please, that is so big claim that you really should have something to back it up because that kind of sweeping statement is sure to poison minds.

You mention that many of the 14 million didnt give their votes for the PPP as party but for individuals only, if I understood correctly. This again, has nothing to do with your claim that "good percentage was bought". Please, do not be like politicians and just throw around your gut feelings. Back up your claim or be silent.

Sunsnow take it easy with Loburt. He is obviously having a bad hair day. When the fact does not suit him he will start the name calling. Maybe he should sign up for a class in Latin language.

With other than gut feeling I mean, any trustable investigative journalistic pieces, any neutral agencies that were following the voting and their reports etc. And also, then there is the question of how much of the votes that were not given to PPP were also bought? How about those who didnt vote for them? how much of their votes were bought? Any feeling of that at all?

I'm certain that the people in the streets committing violence against PAD protesters have been organized by government backers, primarily Newin Chidchob, and given money and logistical support for what they are doing. the is very much the government against the protesters. To doubt that is naive.

The PAD protests, like the anti-Thaksin protests of 2005-6, consist of a collection of people with different ideas, beliefs, agendas united only by their opposition to the government/Thaksin. If the government left the legal issues alone and focused on the economy, the protests would lose support. But the government doesn't because Thaksin, by his own admission, is calling the shots and he wants he cases torpedoed.

What Thaksin has been charged with were crimes under laws and constitutional provisions passed before the coup.

The same goes for the PPP.

The only thing the coup makers changed as far as the laws against vote buying was the severity of the punishment. I believe they expanded it to ban all executives of the guilty political party for five years.

I know a lot of Thais who, while not happy about the instability this situation is causing, nonetheless want the punishment for vote buying to be this harsh, because they are sick and tired of rigged and dirty elections and want the crooks kicked out.

I can't tell you if they are the majority or not. But I know they aren't all PAD supporters or military supporters or can be typecast any particular way.

The government wants to repeal a part of the constitution that would essentially make any law passed by the coup government invalid. That would mean the Assets Scrutiny Committee would be legally invalid and all their cases against Thaksin would have to be thrown out.

Everyone agrees the constitution needs to be amended. But the way the PPP wants to do it is decidedly undemocratic. Even the coup makers submitted their constitution to the public for a vote, however flawed that process was.

The PPP wants to draw up amendments without input from anyone and simply pass them with its parliamentary majority, refusing to submit them to the public for a vote. It wants to weaken all the watchdog agencies which serve as checks and balances against its power.

A healthy democracy is one in which checks and balances work. The PPP does not want that.

Posted by browntiger [ 23 July 2008 | 4:29PM ]

too stress

>> yeah... that's why we should talk about shopping / sex / boyfriends / food / party / movies....

but anyway... I know one thing about vote from the heart... in 14 million votes... some of they said they vote for the deathlink of drug war...

gosh he murdered 2500 people. yeah... that's my hero.

>>>>Please, do not be like politicians and just throw around your gut feelings. Back up your claim or be silent.

In the first place sunsnow, you have nothing to back up your claims, you're not actually in Thailand to see what's going on, and yet you are never silent. So don't start ordering me around with an arrogant attitude.

Reports of vote buying being rampant prior to the election were all over the papers here. All the papers. I spoke to Thai executives who work primarily in the countryside and they told me they couldn't believe how much vote buying they were personally seeing. I have friends whose families have village headmen in them, and they told me about getting stacks of money from the PPP to buy votes. And other colleagues of mine also witnessed plenty of vote buying when they went to the countryside.

Stop sticking your head in the sand.

It's a fact that all parties buy votes. The extent to which each party pays for votes varies. Some Democrats certainly bought votes. But in general, PollWatch, which is part of Anfrel and has reported on every election here in Thailand except the last one since the early 1990s, consistently reported that the NAP-TRT-PPP were the biggest vote buyers and election law violators, while the Democrats trailed far behind in those categories. No one is innocent, but some parties are far more guilty than others.