Gypsy's - What do you know?

[Sherriff]

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to ask people what, if anything they know about Gypsy's.

This is a little known area of British (not exclusively) culture and is often overlooked or at best ridiculed.

I only bother to ask because I have recently seen a few comments on TF which had references to Gypsy's, and, not surprisingly, they were rather insulting. Another word for it is racism. As Gypsy's are a race, and have a unique culture and language too.

If anyone is interested, here is a link to an area of Gypsy culture that is often focused on. You may have seen rather inaccurate referendes to it in films such as ******.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/east/series2/bare_knuckle_fighting.shtml

Please feel free to comment. I'm not overly sensitive to it. It's a very harsh environment to be brought up in so it's water off a ducks back really:) Click the link and you'll see why

Peace everyone

[sunsnow]

Gypsy culture is still showing one rare feature in Finland, one of the few countries were it still happens (in my understanding): here gypsies still use very traditional clothing and otherwise with their looks seperate themselves from the main community. This females dress resembled untill 19th century dress of the main population but later started to differ and now it is very "fluffy" and decorative. (The always travelling part has long gone, but they still have their own dialect for sure here...)

Oh and this bare knucle fighting part is totally new stereotype part of the culture for me. Here gypsy culture is connected with knives and horses. And horses has been big part of their lives and still, in the form of taking care of horses, and well, betting on them. (I took the history on dressing from Wikipedia, other than it is own "feeling"...)

(For maybe curious info in Finnish (with english translations: http://www.romanomissio.fi/index.htm

http://www.stm.fi/Resource.phx/eng/orgis/board/romani/index.htx)

[Sherriff]

Thanks for your input sunsnow

Some people in England can tell a gypsy by the way he or she is dressed. Although it couldn't be described as traditional dress, not nowadays anyway.

One thing that strikes me in your pic is the gold earings. Alway's a dead giveaway

Bare knuckle fighting is a centuries old tradition.

[sunsnow]

Darren27 and Sheriff, neither one of you really look like gypsy when it comes to my experince on the looks - dark hair and all! :-O You look like darned main population British! Are you sure about the gypsy blood in your veins?

[Sherriff]

Cheers Darren!

Haha, yeah, I know what you mean. I won't start talking about family members - haven't got all night

My theory is that so much stigma is now attached to the word 'Gypsy' that even Gypsy's are afraid to use it.But I guess it doesn't really matter. We know who we are and we are very proud of it

Thanks again mate

[Sherriff]

Darren27 and Sheriff, neither one of you really look like gypsy when it comes to my experince on the looks - dark hair and all! :-O You look like darned main population British! Are you sure about the gypsy blood in your veins?

I would say Darren definately looks like one. Big, dark and hairy

If you saw me in person you might think differently although people assume I'm an Irish Tinker because I've got red hair.

I'm 6' 4" and I weigh about 18 stone.

[Hullboy]

Darren27 and Sheriff, neither one of you really look like gypsy when it comes to my experince on the looks - dark hair and all! :-O You look like darned main population British! Are you sure about the gypsy blood in your veins?

I would say Darren definately looks like one. Big, dark and hairy

If you saw me in person you might think differently although people assume I'm an Irish Tinker because I've got red hair.

I'm 6' 4" and I weigh about 18 stone.

Yeah i reckon I fit the bill. dark skin, hair and stocky - to put it politely

6'4" and 18 stone and red hair - Sherriff there will be no missing you in Thailand then... :shock:

I lived 400 metres from a gypsy camp for 10 years in Dorset, some were ok, but an exceptionally high proportion were some of the nastiest, thieving, violent horrible shits you could ever have the misfortune of meeting in your life.

I can say this as many have been or still are in prison for long spells for crimes ranging from rape - armed robbery - to mugging and beating old ladies in their homes (2 smackheads are currently on a 12 for this), these are the ones of a similar age to myself. Out of the ones i know that are my age i would say 90% have been to prison.

Most never actually travelled so i dont know how they can claim to be travellers. Youd call these people Pikey's as opposed to travellers/gypsy's though the claimed to be travellers/gypsy's.

Gypsys have got their reputation for a reason.

[GoldMember]

See a lot in central Paris .Always begging on a rent-a-pitch with their little bambinos as sympathy decoys .These are the real McCoy-fresh out of Eastern Europe.

[Sherriff]

Darren27 and Sheriff, neither one of you really look like gypsy when it comes to my experince on the looks - dark hair and all! :-O You look like darned main population British! Are you sure about the gypsy blood in your veins?

I would say Darren definately looks like one. Big, dark and hairy

If you saw me in person you might think differently although people assume I'm an Irish Tinker because I've got red hair.

I'm 6' 4" and I weigh about 18 stone.

Yeah i reckon I fit the bill. dark skin, hair and stocky - to put it politely

6'4" and 18 stone and red hair - Sherriff there will be no missing you in Thailand then... :shock:

I lived 400 metres from a gypsy camp for 10 years in Dorset, some were ok, but an exceptionally high proportion were some of the nastiest, thieving, violent horrible shits you could ever have the misfortune of meeting in your life.

I can say this as many have been or still are in prison for long spells for crimes ranging from rape - armed robbery - to mugging and beating old ladies in their homes (2 smackheads are currently on a 12 for this), these are the ones of a similar age to myself. Out of the ones i know that are my age i would say 90% have been to prison.

Most never actually travelled so i dont know how they can claim to be travellers. Youd call these people Pikey's as opposed to travellers/gypsy's though the claimed to be travellers/gypsy's.

Gypsys have got their reputation for a reason.

Well, I guess this explains your racist comment.

But what do you actually know about our people and culture?

Also, I would be grateful if you could name the reference for the statistic you give, or is it made up?

The rest of your post is a little ambiguous I must add. Words like 'many', 'most' and 'exceptionally high proportion' don't really mean that much when there is no other reference.

Also, thankyou for using the word 'pikey'. For anyone who doesn't know, this is a derogatory term for a Gypsy. Rather like the 'n' word or spic, coon, wog, chinc, wop, gook etc I think you all get the picture.

Thanks for the contribution nonetheless. Truely enlightening.

[Sherriff]

See a lot in central Paris .Always begging on a rent-a-pitch with their little bambinos as sympathy decoys .These are the real McCoy-fresh out of Eastern Europe.

Thanks for this. Maybe they are homeless and unemployed. With the added inconvenience of being illegal immigrants. Being a Gypsy and have infants to take care of will only add to the burden. Bit of a predicament, don't you think?

Do you have the same attitude towards beggars on Bangkok's Thanon Sukhumvit? Or is that somehow different? Still at least mosat are legal there and don't have to worry about the winter setting in, eh?

[Hullboy]

I went to school with gypsy's, i went boxing with gypsy's and i still have acquaintences who are gypsys who i see from time to time, i actually bumped into one in Thailand last year, and he is a serious wrong un, he's a wanted man in England.

Its not my business to study your customs or culture, my views are drawn from personal experience and the fact most i know have done serious stir.

There is a pack mentality with gypsys/travellers what ever names im allowed to use, at a gypsy funeral some little gypsy kid got told off by a female passer by, her reward for this was to get glassed in the face by a gypsy, not one of the gypsy crowd intervened, non of us could as we outnumbered 100-1 and we'd have been put on life support had we.

You know for a fact serious crime is rampant amongst travellers, and that there are proportionally more gypsy's going to prison.

I met actual travellers who stayed at this site and they were a different breed to this lot i grew up with.

[GoldMember]

See a lot in central Paris .Always begging on a rent-a-pitch with their little bambinos as sympathy decoys .These are the real McCoy-fresh out of Eastern Europe.

Thanks for this. Maybe they are homeless and unemployed. With the added inconvenience of being illegal immigrants. Being a Gypsy and have infants to take care of will only add to the burden. Bit of a predicament, don't you think?

Thank you for the enlightenment.I shall say a more reverent F*ck off in future.

[Sherriff]

See a lot in central Paris .Always begging on a rent-a-pitch with their little bambinos as sympathy decoys .These are the real McCoy-fresh out of Eastern Europe.

Thanks for this. Maybe they are homeless and unemployed. With the added inconvenience of being illegal immigrants. Being a Gypsy and have infants to take care of will only add to the burden. Bit of a predicament, don't you think?

Thank you for the enlightenment.I shall say a more reverent F*ck off in future.

OK. Nice. Well done you.

[GoldMember]

See a lot in central Paris .Always begging on a rent-a-pitch with their little bambinos as sympathy decoys .These are the real McCoy-fresh out of Eastern Europe.

Thanks for this. Maybe they are homeless and unemployed. With the added inconvenience of being illegal immigrants. Being a Gypsy and have infants to take care of will only add to the burden. Bit of a predicament, don't you think?

Thank you for the enlightenment.I shall say a more reverent F*ck off in future.

OK. Nice. Well done you.

But just to inform you they arent illegal and they arent homeless.Just professional beggars doing pretty good business.

[Sherriff]

See a lot in central Paris .Always begging on a rent-a-pitch with their little bambinos as sympathy decoys .These are the real McCoy-fresh out of Eastern Europe.

Thanks for this. Maybe they are homeless and unemployed. With the added inconvenience of being illegal immigrants. Being a Gypsy and have infants to take care of will only add to the burden. Bit of a predicament, don't you think?

Thank you for the enlightenment.I shall say a more reverent F*ck off in future.

OK. Nice. Well done you.

But just to inform you they arent illegal and they arent homeless.Just professional beggars doing pretty good business.

Sure, much easier than getting an actual job, eh? So are they Gypsy's or not?

Are speaking for all of them? Do you know for a fact that all of them are legal and have homes to live in? What point are you making? Why did you avoid my question regarding beggars in Bangkok?

[GoldMember]

See a lot in central Paris .Always begging on a rent-a-pitch with their little bambinos as sympathy decoys .These are the real McCoy-fresh out of Eastern Europe.

Thanks for this. Maybe they are homeless and unemployed. With the added inconvenience of being illegal immigrants. Being a Gypsy and have infants to take care of will only add to the burden. Bit of a predicament, don't you think?

Thank you for the enlightenment.I shall say a more reverent F*ck off in future.

OK. Nice. Well done you.

But just to inform you they arent illegal and they arent homeless.Just professional beggars doing pretty good business.

Sure, much easier than getting an actual job, eh? So are they Gypsy's or not?

Are speaking for all of them? Do you know for a fact that all of them are legal and have homes to live in? What point are you making? Why did you avoid my question regarding beggars in Bangkok?

This is a topic about gypsies and people's experience of-pure and simple

I 've given mine.

Sorry if you dont like.

Not much more i can say.....

[Sherriff]

See a lot in central Paris .Always begging on a rent-a-pitch with their little bambinos as sympathy decoys .These are the real McCoy-fresh out of Eastern Europe.

Thanks for this. Maybe they are homeless and unemployed. With the added inconvenience of being illegal immigrants. Being a Gypsy and have infants to take care of will only add to the burden. Bit of a predicament, don't you think?

Thank you for the enlightenment.I shall say a more reverent F*ck off in future.

OK. Nice. Well done you.

But just to inform you they arent illegal and they arent homeless.Just professional beggars doing pretty good business.

Sure, much easier than getting an actual job, eh? So are they Gypsy's or not?

Are speaking for all of them? Do you know for a fact that all of them are legal and have homes to live in? What point are you making? Why did you avoid my question regarding beggars in Bangkok?

This is a topic about gypsies and people's experience of-pure and simple

I 've given mine.

Sorry if you dont like.

Not much more i can say.....

Is that it!? That's the extent of your experience? You obviously haven't had any experience of Gypsy's. You don't know what you're talking about. You saw some beggars in Paris and labelled them as Gypsy beggars, albeit one's who aren't homless and are making good money!

Flounce it up all you like, but the term for this is racial stereotyping or in the worst case racial prejudice. No, I don't like it but like all Gypsy's, I've lived with it all my life and it's what I expected.

Why don't you come out for a beer some time? I'll show you that we're not a bunch of thieving, drugged-up, begging, rapists. I'll even teach you some of our language. Don't worry, I won't let anyone pick on you

[Sherriff]

I went to school with gypsy's, i went boxing with gypsy's and i still have acquaintences who are gypsys who i see from time to time, i actually bumped into one in Thailand last year, and he is a serious wrong un, he's a wanted man in England.

Its not my business to study your customs or culture, my views are drawn from personal experience and the fact most i know have done serious stir.

There is a pack mentality with gypsys/travellers what ever names im allowed to use, at a gypsy funeral some little gypsy kid got told off by a female passer by, her reward for this was to get glassed in the face by a gypsy, not one of the gypsy crowd intervened, non of us could as we outnumbered 100-1 and we'd have been put on life support had we.

You know for a fact serious crime is rampant amongst travellers, and that there are proportionally more gypsy's going to prison.

I met actual travellers who stayed at this site and they were a different breed to this lot i grew up with.

You're right.It's not your business to study the culture and customs of my people. But I think you should if you want to point a finger at us.

I would ask you again for references to yout stats. I don't think there are proprtionatly more Gypsy's going to prison. Actually most Gypsy's I know, including my entire family stopped travelling years ago and now live in houses and run successful businesses.Travelling was a way of life forced upon Gypsy's. It wasn't chosen. But many wanted to uphold their traditions in the modern world and maintain their customs, like many minorities do today. It's common among people who have been persecuted for generations.

I wonder if you are aware of how many Gypsy's were murdered by the Nazi's during the holocaust?

Another thing I would like to say is that I know of very few Gypsy's who indulge in the taking of illegal substances. However, I know of another type of traveller, often called 'new-age traveller' or 'hippie' that Gypsy's are often confused with, that does.

Anyway, you might want to keep comments like 'Gypo scum' under your hat, because it's rather rude.

[GoldMember]

See a lot in central Paris .Always begging on a rent-a-pitch with their little bambinos as sympathy decoys .These are the real McCoy-fresh out of Eastern Europe.

Thanks for this. Maybe they are homeless and unemployed. With the added inconvenience of being illegal immigrants. Being a Gypsy and have infants to take care of will only add to the burden. Bit of a predicament, don't you think?

Thank you for the enlightenment.I shall say a more reverent F*ck off in future.

OK. Nice. Well done you.

But just to inform you they arent illegal and they arent homeless.Just professional beggars doing pretty good business.

Sure, much easier than getting an actual job, eh? So are they Gypsy's or not?

Are speaking for all of them? Do you know for a fact that all of them are legal and have homes to live in? What point are you making? Why did you avoid my question regarding beggars in Bangkok?

This is a topic about gypsies and people's experience of-pure and simple

I 've given mine.

Sorry if you dont like.

Not much more i can say.....

Is that it!? That's the extent of your experience? You obviously haven't had any experience of Gypsy's. You don't know what you're talking about. You saw some beggars in Paris and labelled them as Gypsy beggars, albeit one's who aren't homless and are making good money!

Flounce it up all you like, but the term for this is racial stereotyping or in the worst case racial prejudice. No, I don't like it but like all Gypsy's, I've lived with it all my life and it's what I expected.

Why don't you come out for a beer some time? I'll show you that we're not a bunch of thieving, drugged-up, begging, rapists. I'll even teach you some of our language. Don't worry, I won't let anyone pick on you

Its not racial stereotyping at all!.I simply said the (100s of) gypsies i come across on a daily basis are beggars.I didnt imply that ALL gypsies are beggars.Thats ridiculous.I'm sure elsewhere they're lovely ,cuddly, hard working and law abiding . :wink:

[Hullboy]

Anyway, you might want to keep comments like 'Gypo scum' under your hat, because it's rather rude.

Where did i say that?

I dont have stats that show more Gypsys end up in "The Clink" but of the ones i knowa dis-proportionate amount of the males have been, and for nasty nasty crimes.

Now as this is only my judgement you can take it or leave it.

You dont need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

[Ian36]

Are you talking Romany, Pikey, traveller or Goy fairs people, or even tent people and similar? There are very few true Romany in Britain, most are travellers claiming to be gypsies so they can claim gypsy rights, or in the case of fairs people grandfather rights. I have mixed with plenty, and later in life taught them at school, in temperament they are still close to their northern Indian ancestors, noisy, colourful, aggressive and clannish. Good friends and bad enemies:-) Most of the settled one work as builders or scrappies. Incidentally Duncan's clan is the same as mine but I'm not a gypsy:-)

[Sherriff]

Anyway, you might want to keep comments like 'Gypo scum' under your hat, because it's rather rude.

Where did i say that?

I dont have stats that show more Gypsys end up in "The Clink" but of the ones i knowa dis-proportionate amount of the males have been, and for nasty nasty crimes.

Now as this is only my judgement you can take it or leave it.

You dont need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Hullboy - My sincere apologies. It was in hully not you who said Gypo scum. My mistake.

Although, I have to say Hullboy. You mentioned that it's not your business to know about our culture but you are commenting on a forum where the principle question is - What do you know? Why don't you just tell the truth and say, 'nothing'.

[Sherriff]

See a lot in central Paris .Always begging on a rent-a-pitch with their little bambinos as sympathy decoys .These are the real McCoy-fresh out of Eastern Europe.

Thanks for this. Maybe they are homeless and unemployed. With the added inconvenience of being illegal immigrants. Being a Gypsy and have infants to take care of will only add to the burden. Bit of a predicament, don't you think?

Thank you for the enlightenment.I shall say a more reverent F*ck off in future.

OK. Nice. Well done you.

But just to inform you they arent illegal and they arent homeless.Just professional beggars doing pretty good business.

Sure, much easier than getting an actual job, eh? So are they Gypsy's or not?

Are speaking for all of them? Do you know for a fact that all of them are legal and have homes to live in? What point are you making? Why did you avoid my question regarding beggars in Bangkok?

This is a topic about gypsies and people's experience of-pure and simple

I 've given mine.

Sorry if you dont like.

Not much more i can say.....

Is that it!? That's the extent of your experience? You obviously haven't had any experience of Gypsy's. You don't know what you're talking about. You saw some beggars in Paris and labelled them as Gypsy beggars, albeit one's who aren't homless and are making good money!

Flounce it up all you like, but the term for this is racial stereotyping or in the worst case racial prejudice. No, I don't like it but like all Gypsy's, I've lived with it all my life and it's what I expected.

Why don't you come out for a beer some time? I'll show you that we're not a bunch of thieving, drugged-up, begging, rapists. I'll even teach you some of our language. Don't worry, I won't let anyone pick on you

Its not racial stereotyping at all!.I simply said the (100s of) gypsies i come across on a daily basis are beggars.I didnt imply that ALL gypsies are beggars.Thats ridiculous.I'm sure elsewhere they're lovely ,cuddly, hard working and law abiding . :wink:

Ok, so the 100's of Gypsy's you come across daily are beggars. So? My reply wouldbe the same as before. So? What do you know about Gypsy's?

You mentioned nothing of numbers or the frequency of these encounters actually. Or indeed, the circumstances by which these encounters occur.

You made an observation. One which generalized an ethnic group, as you said nothing else. By definition, this is a racial stereotype.

[Sherriff]

Are you talking Romany, Pikey, traveller or Goy fairs people, or even tent people and similar? There are very few true Romany in Britain, most are travellers claiming to be gypsies so they can claim gypsy rights, or in the case of fairs people grandfather rights. I have mixed with plenty, and later in life taught them at school, in temperament they are still close to their northern Indian ancestors, noisy, colourful, aggressive and clannish. Good friends and bad enemies:-) Most of the settled one work as builders or scrappies. Incidentally Duncan's clan is the same as mine but I'm not a gypsy:-)

How are you defining or diferentiating between the groups you mention? Pikey is a derogatory word used by gorgios to describe Gypsy's. It's very rude. Traveller could mean anything, I'm not aware of such an ethnic group. Goy fair, again gorgio speak.

Of course I'm, talking about Romany. The language we speak is called Romane.

You are quite right about what you say about out North Indian ancestors. I have travelled through India and have met Gypsy's in kashmir. Many of our words come from Sanscrit.

By the way, the word 'gorgio' means non-Gypsy and is in fact a very polite term. It means 'gentile' or gentlefolk.

[Kitschiguy]

kaulo ratti adrey leste. Maybe this forum is kek cushti my jinney mengro.

As you know I lived in Bordon for18 years. But for those that don't know it's a town in Hampshire that's an army camp but had a large number of Romanies relocated there during the 70's from caravan parks in Somerset.

I grew up with Romany kids. I was in the same football and cricket teams and went to school with them, and I've studied the language.

The language is fascinating because it comes from Sanskrit, like you say. It has similarities to Thai as many Thai words have their root in Sanskrit also. But it actually takes words from Spanish, Gaelic, French, German, Persian etc which is a testiment to the Romanies nomadic way of life.

It's interesting how some words have found their way in to mainstream culture in England. The new sub-culture of 'chav's' for instance. Chavo means child or boy. Chaveli means girl. Also the word 'bitty' which was popularised in Little Brittain means little bit. Same as the word 'noi' in Thai. (actually, the word is 'bito')

And in Only Fools and Horses Del-Boy often uses the word 'cushti'. Which means good.

As I was growing up I thought words like dinlo (fool), chore (steal), chavy(person), Jal (the verb to go), gordgie, cushti, pani etc were normal English words. Incidentally the Hindi and the Romany word for water is the same - pani. Sometimes used for the act of taking a wee. Used like this - Jal no ando pani - to take a swim or 'I go in water'.

In Bordon it's common to see Romany's out and about in pony and traps.You can even tell where they live as they decorate their houses with ornamental caravan wheels and have horses heads as gate posts. Paying homage to their former way of life. There's even a Romany museum with original restored caravans at a nearby village.

The tatcho drom to be a jinney-mengro is to dic and rig in zi - The true way to be a wise man is to see and bear in mind.

Jinney-mengreskey rokrapenes - Sayings of the wise.