thailand or cambodia??

[SiamHotel]

a terrible WASTE of eyes 1f you actually *think* 'bout it

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[LakeGeneve]

Cambodia stresses peaceful solution with Thailand The Associated Press

Wednesday, August 6, 2008

PHNOM PENH, Cambodia: Cambodia's prime minister reiterated his call for a peaceful solution to a border dispute with Thailand, warning Wednesday that both countries's economies would suffer if the conflict erupts into a full-scale war.

In his first public speech since winning national elections last month, Prime Minister Hun Sen said both countries must "narrow the conflict and expand friendship and cooperation." Thai and Cambodian troops have been facing off along their shared border for three weeks over disputed territory first near Preah Vihear temple and then at Ta Moan Thom temple.

Hun Sen's comments came as the confrontation at Ta Moan Thom appeared to be easing, with both sides pulling back their soldiers. "We cannot just carve out Thailand to put in the sky or move our land away," Hun Sen said in a two-hour speech Wednesday. "We will coexist for tens of thousands of years to come."

He also criticized leaflets calling for a Cambodian boycott of Thai goods in response to Thailand's alleged encroachment onto Cambodian territory near Preah Vihear."A border dispute should not turn the two countries into enemies in all domains," he said. "That is very dangerous." He said he was not being "soft," but warned that if war broke out "the two countries will only stand to lose" in terms of trade and economic cooperation.

The dispute surrounding the 13th century Ta Moan Thom temple started when Cambodian officials said some 70 Thai soldiers occupied the temple site last week and prevented Cambodian troops from entering. Thai military officials countered that their troops had been in the area for years.

Agreement for a troop withdrawal from the grounds of the temple was reached late Tuesday during a meeting between officials from the two countries, said Maj. Ho Bunthy, a Cambodian army commander in the area.

The sanctuary is located several hundred miles (kilometers) west of Preah Vihear temple, where Cambodian and Thai soldiers have been locked in a standoff for three weeks in a dispute over nearby territory.

About 800 troops from Cambodia and 400 from Thailand remain in the Preah Vihear area despite a tentative agreement reached by foreign ministers last week to redeploy them in an effort to ease tensions.

Hun Sen said another meeting between the two countries' foreign ministers would take place August 18 in the Thai resort town of Hua Hin, where delegates would discuss plans to redeploy troops and conduct mine clearing operations.

In Thailand, Lt. Gen. Nipat Thonglek, the chief of military border affairs, said Wednesday that his government would set up a committee to consider redeploying its troops from the border area near Preah Vihear temple.He said the decision was made at a Thai Cabinet meeting Tuesday. He stressed redeployment of troops must be conducted in a manner appropriate with the military's "duty to protect the sovereignty" of Thailand.

Cambodian Information Minister Khieu Kanharith welcomed the announcement as "good news.""The sooner the redeployment takes place, the better," he said.

Thailand and Cambodia sent troops to the border area after UNESCO approved Cambodia's application to have the Preah Vihear temple complex named a World Heritage Site. Some Thai activists say the temple's new status will jeopardize their country's claims to land next to the site.

Associated Press writer Sutin Wannabovorn in Bangkok contributed to this report.

[LakeGeneve]

Loburt wrote:

In dealing with poor little Cambodia, the Thai side is actually dealing with Hun Sen and his lot, and they are basically a bunch of violent murdering thugs.

And they have quite a long and well-documented history of using force and violence to steal valuable swaths of land from -- Cambodians!

I forgot to mention that there was a good article on this issue in the IHT (NYTs) last month with slide show;

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/17/asia/cambo.php

http://www.iht.com/slideshows/2008/07/14/asia/16cambodia-ss.php

[AussieGuy]

Australia. Australia should take over ownership of all disputed Wats. Oz does not have any, so there!

[SiamHotel]

Australia. Australia should take over ownership of all disputed Wats. Oz does not have any, so there!

abxolutely {...ja} !!

-- http://www.thailandfriends.com/angelic

[AussieGuy]

Australia. Australia should take over ownership of all disputed Wats. Oz does not have any, so there!

abxolutely {...ja} !!

-- http://www.thailandfriends.com/angelic

damm straight !

[LakeGeneve]

Good to see troops levels finally being significantly reduced.

PREAH VIHEAR TEMPLE Troop levels to be reduced before fresh border talks THANIDA TANSUBHAPOL AND AFP Bangkok Post 15/08/08

The plan by Cambodia and Thailand to sharply reduce troop levels on the border will be completed before a new round of border talks begins on Monday, Cambodian Deputy Defence Minister Gen Neang Phat said yesterday. The agreement was reached on Wednesday during a meeting of military officials from the two countries in Surin.

''The redeployment of the troops that we have agreed to will finish before the ministerial meeting on Aug 18,'' Gen Neang Phat said. Gen Neang Phat said the remaining troops would be allowed to carry only light arms. Their future positions would be determined after the ministerial meeting next week, he added.

Full article; http://www.bangkokpost.com/150808_News/15Aug2008_news08.php

[LakeGeneve]

While nearly everyone has been focused on the PM saga there has been other areas along the border apart from PV where soldiers from both countires have been having the odd bit of 'contact'. Following at least one reported incident of an exchange of fire between soldiers in the last week, I guess we should not be surprised if other acts of armed engagement occur.

It seems that Hun Sen is keen to take elements of the border dispute to the ICJ (World Court) which is perhaps where it should end up in the end. The Cambodians do have the diplomatic advantage at the moment.

(There also seems to be the usual range of conspiracy theories in some of the thai press ; http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9510000109964)

Govt to take temple row to the UN - Written by Vong Sokheng, Tuesday, 16 September 2008, Phnom Penh Post

PRIME Minister Hun Sen will again seek international arbitration in Cambodia's ongoing dispute with Thailand over contested border territory adjacent to Preah Vihear temple, according to government officials. Hun Sen told his Cabinet Friday that he plans to take the issue back to the UN Security Council and to the International Court of Justice in The Hague.

Phay Siphan, spokesman for the Council of Ministers, quoted Hun Sen as saying the council should prepare documentation and evidence in the likely event it needed to return to the Security Council, following delays in talks with the beleaguered Thai government. "Thai soldiers have continued their invasion of Cambodian territory, threatening the Kingdom's security. Now we are compiling more documents and evidence of this invasion," Phay Siphan said.

On July 22, Cambodia made an appeal to the Security Council during its military standoff with Thailand at the World Heritage-listed temple, but withdrew the complaint two days later after Thailand agreed to hold immediate talks on the issue. But discussions over a full troop withdrawal have stagnated, with the Thais requesting a postponement due to political tensions in Bangkok.

Union leader Rong Chhun told the Post Sunday that he had written to King Norodom Sihamoni, requesting that the monarch submit the border dispute to the UN Security Council and the International Court of Justice. "We see that the invasion by Thai soldiers is getting more serious and the government has no clear political will over the issue," Rong Chhun said.

He added that the ruling Cambodian People's Party was delaying the border dispute to boost its popularity. The row erupted after Cambodia's arrest of three Thai nationalist protesters on July 15, whom authorities allege crossed illegally into Cambodia close to the disputed temple site. Since then, Thailand and Cambodia have been building up their forces near the temple and tensions have escalated, spreading to other temple sites along the border.

Thai soldiers leave Ta Krabey - Written by Thet Sambath, Tuesday, 16 September 2008, Phnom Penh Post

AFTER a tense two-day stand-off, Thai soldiers have withdrawn from Ta Krabey temple and are now stationed some 200 metres from the cliff-top sanctuary. "Both [Thailand and Cambodia's] armed forces have now withdrawn their troops from the temple," Ho Bunthy, deputy commander of Border Military Unit 402, told the Post Sunday.

On Wednesday, 145 Thai soldiers occupied the temple - which has been controlled by Cambodia for years - and refused to leave for two days, instead standing side by side with the Cambodian military. "The temple has always been under our control but when the Thai soldiers refused to leave we guarded the temple next to them," Ho Bunthy said.

The withdrawal comes after meetings between Thai and Cambodian military commanders held this weekend, during which both sides agreed to withdraw all soldiers to their respective bases approximately 200 metres from the newly-contested site to "avoid armed confrontation", Ho Bunthy said.

Despite the compromise on Ta Krabey, the situation at nearby Preah Vihear, where a standoff over disputed land is stretching into its second month, remains the same, said Yim Phim, commander of Brigade 43."Nothing has changed," Yim Phim told the Post Sunday, adding that troops from both sides were still at their posts.

Dispute spreading along border - Written by Thet Sambath Thursday, 18 September 2008, Phnom Penh Post

Thai soldiers are demanding Cambodia cede land in Pursat province

HIGH-LEVEL negotiations are over and the political mudslinging has shifted up a gear, with Prime Minister Hun Sen labelling Thai soldiers "thieves" for their encroachment on the Kingdom's territory. On the ground, the military standoff between Cambodia and Thailand is spreading, and fast.

Having flared up over the Unesco-listed Preah Vihear temple, the dispute raced through Oddar Meanchey's Ta Moan Thom, Ta Moan Touch and Ta Krabey temples, and has now reached O'Plok Damrey in Veal Veng district, Pursat province, military officials say. "Thai soldiers came to see our soldiers and told them to remove the fence along the border and withdraw our troops back inside Cambodia," said Ek Sam On, deputy commander of Military Region 5, which covers Pursat, Pailin, Battambang and Banteay Meanchey provinces.

"Our soldiers are simply stationed along our border to protect it, we are not sure why the Thais have demanded that we withdraw from the area and remove the [10-year-old] border fence. It is an unreasonable request," Ek Sam On added. Oun Yong, Veal Veng district's governor, said Tuesday that unless the Cambodian government ordered a troop withdrawal, soldiers would remain in their positions.

An RCAF commander from Military Region 5, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that more troops were being sent to the area as reinforcements for those already on this "new front line". Military commanders are travelling to the area to check on the situation, he said.

More meetings between Thai and Cambodian military border commanders will start today, according to Ho Bunthy, deputy commander of Border Military Unit 402. He added he had little hope of negotiations bringing any solution, saying, "I do not believe the Thai military commanders because ... they have never kept their promises." Thai embassy officials refused to comment.

[LakeGeneve]

After the shooting incident a few weeks ago it is not suprising that this incident occured yesterday. Just as well the number of soldiers in the area had already been reduced otherwise the whole situation may have escalated further.

Thai soldiers trade fire with Khmer troops - Both sides accuse each other of intrusion BANGKOK POST AND AFP 04/10/08

Two Thai soldiers were wounded in a gunfight with Cambodian troops near the border in Si Sa Ket province, according to the army. The clash erupted near the foot of Phu Ma Khua hill around 3pm yesterday after a number of Cambodian soldiers crossed into Thai territory, said Second Army chief Wibulsak Neepal.

According to him, Thai soldiers on patrol fired shots into the air to warn the Cambodian troops to return to their side of the border. However, they shot back at the Thai soldiers, prompting an exchange of gunfire which lasted about 20 minutes. Two Thai soldiers were wounded in the legs, while three Cambodian troops were also injured, said Lt-Gen Wibulsak. He said the scene of fighting was a thickly forested area, and it was unclear whether the Cambodian troops had strayed over the border or intentionally intruded into Thai territory.

Army spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd, however, said the Cambodian soldiers had provoked the fight. Some eight Cambodian soldiers had set up a patrol outpost about a kilometre into Thai territory, he said. Before the incident, talks to persuade them to leave failed and they were heard jeering Thai soldiers, said the spokesman. Lt-Gen Wibulsak said despite the shooting, the border situation remained under control. The incident has not been reported to army commander-in-chief Gen Anupong Paojinda.

Cambodian officials, however, reported a different story. They said only one of their soldiers was injured and that the incident took place after more than a dozen Thai soldiers crossed into disputed territory near Preah Vihear temple. ''On the Cambodian side, one soldier was injured in his left hand,'' said Hang Soth, director-general of the Preah Vihear authority, the body tasked with conservation of the ancient Khmer site. The Thai troops were stopped and turned back by Cambodian soldiers, said a Cambodian border police official. Thai soldiers opened fire with M-79 rockets and M-16 assault rifles after re-entering their territory, he said.

Cambodian troops responded by shooting a single B-40 rocket and then opening fire with their AK-47 rifles, the official added. Another Cambodian official later said a letter of complaint was being drafted to be sent to the Thai government. The incident comes as both countries attempt progress in talks to resolve the decades-long border dispute.

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat is scheduled to visit Cambodia on Oct 13 to meet his counterpart Hun Sen. Much of the border remains in dispute, and the slow pace of clearing old landmines from the area has delayed its demarcation. Tensions flared in July after the Preah Vihear temple was awarded world heritage status, angering nationalists in Thailand who still claim ownership of the site. Those tensions turned into a military standoff, in which up to 1,000 Cambodian and Thai troops faced off for six weeks. Both sides agreed to pull back in mid-August, leaving only 20 troops from each side stationed at a small pagoda in the border area, while 40 Cambodian and Thai solders remain nearby.

[LakeGeneve]

Sad to read that 3 days ago two thai soldiers were severely injured by a landmine placed just 3 kms from the temple. Reportedly, one lost both legs and the other one leg - very sad for their families.

The whole area was certified as demined in the years ago so either the deminers did nnot do their job properly or someone has been illegally and dangerously laying new mines.

Now that the spotlight of the border dispute has died down for while, few seem to care that the lives of ordinary thais and cambodians in the area are still disputed. Nor that soldiers are being injured while the issue remains unresolved.

[LakeGeneve]

Some good news but given the ongoing political and policy dysfunction one would hope the Border Commission could just meet and progress modalities regardless of who is in power this week.

Thai-Cambodian border talks resume Bkk Post breaking news 13/10/08 pm

(BangkokPost.com, dpa) - Thailand?s Foreign Affairs Minister Sompong Amornvivat met his Cambodian counterpart Hor Namhong on Monday in Phnom Penh to jointly work out the border dispute between the two countries, the Cambodian Ministry of Foreign Affairs reported. Both ministers met for several hours but achieved little more than a promise of a joint border task force meeting for late October, the Cambodian side said.

However, Minister Hor Namhong said he had warned Mr Sompong that although Cambodia understood Thailand's ongoing internal strife, the issue must be quickly resolved or Cambodia would abandon bilateral talks and go to a mediator such as the International Court in The Hague. "We asked the Thai government to solve the border dispute completely and in appropriate time. I again and again urged the Thai government not to delay," Mr Hor Namhong told a press conference.

Both countries have continually accused each other for encroaching on their territories near at least three ancient temples. They include Preah Vihear, Ta Moan Thom and Ta Kwai. On October 3, Thai and Cambodian soldiers opened fire near Preah Vihear, which left three soldiers wounded . Two were Thais and the other was a Cambodian troop. Two more Thai soldiers were also seriously injured last week after stepping on a landmine near the ruins.

Note: Edited

[LakeGeneve]

And some really bad news! :shock: Hun Sen really trying to press the advantage at a time when the govt may be about to fall.

Khmer PM gives Thailand border ultimatum Published on October 14, 2008 The Nation

Phnom Penh - Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen here Monday asked Thailand to evacuate its 81 troops from the Veal Intry area near the Preah Vihear Temple on Cambodian soil within 24 hours, and warned war otherwise, Xinhua news agency reported."The Veal Intry area is the dead or alive point for us," he told reporters at Cambodia's Foreign Ministry after meeting with visiting Thai Foreign Minister Sompong Amornviwat.

"The situation at the Veal Intry area is too hot. They have to remove tonight or tomorrow. If they don't remove from the Veal Intry area, war will be waged," he said. "They entered there (Monday morning) and are deploying and camping their tents about 30 meters from our soldiers. They said they stay here only one day," he said."Cambodia still keep our maximum restraints and won't mind if they go back to their own stronghold," he said. According to Xinua, Hun Sen said, "We want to solve the matter with a peaceful deal. We are trying to shorten the conflict," he said.

The international court is the best way for both sides to solve the border conflict and it can also avoid blame from the people of the two nations, he said. In addition, Cambodia can't hand over concession land to Thailand, and Thailand either, he said.The Veal Intry area is on the Phnom Trap hill side, approximately 2,000 meters from the west side of the Keo Sikha Kiri Svara Pagoda, which is situated on the only way leading to the Preah Vihear Temple.

Earlier Monday, Sompong Amornviwat and his Cambodian counterpart Hor Namhong decided to resume both sides' border talks between Oct. 21 and Oct. 24 in Siem Reap province. In July, tensions ran high after the ancient Preah Vihear Temple was awarded world heritage status by UNESCO, angering nationalists in Thailand who still claim ownership of the site. The tension later turned into a military confrontation, in which up to 1,000 Cambodian and Thai troops faced off for six weeks. In mid-August, most troops evacuated and just a few dozen soldiers stationed near the temple.

However, bilateral talks to discuss withdrawing troops from around the temple were postponed late August amid political turmoil in Thailand. In October at the border area, at least one Cambodian soldier and two Thai troops were wounded during an exchange of gunfire, and two other Thai soldiers were seriously injured after stepping on a landmine.

[SiamHotel]

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