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Wouldn't You Feel Safer With A Gun?


Dihappy

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I found this article quite interesting. 

"British attitudes are supercilious and misguided

Despite the recent spate of shootings on our streets, we pride ourselves on our strict gun laws. Every time an American gunman goes on a killing spree, we shake our heads in righteous disbelief at our poor benighted colonial cousins. Why is it, even after the Virginia Tech massacre, that Americans still resist calls for more gun controls?

The short answer is that “gun controls” do not work: they are indeed generally perverse in their effects. Virginia Tech, where 32 students were shot in April, had a strict gun ban policy and only last year successfully resisted a legal challenge that would have allowed the carrying of licensed defensive weapons on campus. It is with a measure of bitter irony that we recall Thomas Jefferson, founder of the University of Virginia, recording the words of Cesare Beccaria: “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

One might contrast the Virginia Tech massacre with the assault on Virginia’s Appalachian Law School in 2002, where three lives were lost before a student fetched a pistol from his car and apprehended the gunman.

Virginia Tech reinforced the lesson that gun controls are obeyed only by the law-abiding. New York has “banned” pistols since 1911, and its fellow murder capitals, Washington DC and Chicago, have similar bans. One can draw a map of the US, showing the inverse relationship of the strictness of its gun laws, and levels of violence: all the way down to Vermont, with no gun laws at all, and the lowest level of armed violence (one thirteenth that of Britain).

America’s disenchantment with “gun control” is based on experience: whereas in the 1960s and 1970s armed crime rose in the face of more restrictive gun laws (in much of the US, it was illegal to possess a firearm away from the home or workplace), over the past 20 years all violent crime has dropped dramatically, in lockstep with the spread of laws allowing the carrying of concealed weapons by law-abiding citizens. Florida set this trend in 1987, and within five years the states that had followed its example showed an 8 per cent reduction in murders, 7 per cent reduction in aggravated assaults, and 5 per cent reduction in rapes. Today 40 states have such laws, and by 2004 the US Bureau of Justice reported that “firearms-related crime has plummeted”. In Britain, however, the image of violent America remains unassailably entrenched. Never mind the findings of the International Crime Victims Survey (published by the Home Office in 2003), indicating that we now suffer three times the level of violent crime committed in the United States; never mind the doubling of handgun crime in Britain over the past decade, since we banned pistols outright and confiscated all the legal ones. We are so self-congratulatory about our officially disarmed society, and so dismissive of colonial rednecks, that we have forgotten that within living memory British citizens could buy any gun – rifle, pistol, or machinegun – without any licence. When Dr Watson walked the streets of London with a revolver in his pocket, he was a perfectly ordinary Victorian or Edwardian. Charlotte Brontë recalled that her curate father fastened his watch and pocketed his pistol every morning when he got dressed; Beatrix Potter remarked on a Yorkshire country hotel where only one of the eight or nine guests was not carrying a revolver; in 1909, policemen in Tottenham borrowed at least four pistols from passers-by (and were joined by other armed citizens) when they set off in pursuit of two anarchists unwise enough to attempt an armed robbery. We now are shocked that so many ordinary people should have been carrying guns in the street; the Edwardians were shocked rather by the idea of an armed robbery. If armed crime in London in the years before the First World War amounted to less than 2 per cent of that we suffer today, it was not simply because society then was more stable. Edwardian Britain was rocked by a series of massive strikes in which lives were lost and troops deployed, and suffragette incendiaries, anarchist bombers, Fenians, and the spectre of a revolutionary general strike made Britain then arguably a much more turbulent place than it is today. In that unstable society the impact of the widespread carrying of arms was not inflammatory, it was deterrent of violence. As late as 1951, self-defence was the justification of three quarters of all applications for pistol licences. And in the years 1946-51 armed robbery, the most significant measure of gun crime, ran at less than two dozen incidents a year in London; today, in our disarmed society, we suffer as many every week. Gun controls disarm only the law-abiding, and leave predators with a freer hand. Nearly two and a half million people now fall victim to crimes of violence in Britain every year, more than four every minute: crimes that may devastate lives. It is perhaps a privilege of those who have never had to confront violence to disparage the power to resist. Richard Munday is editor and co-author of Guns & Violence: the Debate Before Lord Cullen"

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I found this article quite interesting. 

"British attitudes are supercilious and misguided

Despite the recent spate of shootings on our streets, we pride ourselves on our strict gun laws. Every time an American gunman goes on a killing spree, we shake our heads in righteous disbelief at our poor benighted colonial cousins. Why is it, even after the Virginia Tech massacre, that Americans still resist calls for more gun controls?

The short answer is that “gun controls” do not work: they are indeed generally perverse in their effects. Virginia Tech, where 32 students were shot in April, had a strict gun ban policy and only last year successfully resisted a legal challenge that would have allowed the carrying of licensed defensive weapons on campus. It is with a measure of bitter irony that we recall Thomas Jefferson, founder of the University of Virginia, recording the words of Cesare Beccaria: “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

One might contrast the Virginia Tech massacre with the assault on Virginia’s Appalachian Law School in 2002, where three lives were lost before a student fetched a pistol from his car and apprehended the gunman.

Virginia Tech reinforced the lesson that gun controls are obeyed only by the law-abiding. New York has “banned” pistols since 1911, and its fellow murder capitals, Washington DC and Chicago, have similar bans. One can draw a map of the US, showing the inverse relationship of the strictness of its gun laws, and levels of violence: all the way down to Vermont, with no gun laws at all, and the lowest level of armed violence (one thirteenth that of Britain).

America’s disenchantment with “gun control” is based on experience: whereas in the 1960s and 1970s armed crime rose in the face of more restrictive gun laws (in much of the US, it was illegal to possess a firearm away from the home or workplace), over the past 20 years all violent crime has dropped dramatically, in lockstep with the spread of laws allowing the carrying of concealed weapons by law-abiding citizens. Florida set this trend in 1987, and within five years the states that had followed its example showed an 8 per cent reduction in murders, 7 per cent reduction in aggravated assaults, and 5 per cent reduction in rapes. Today 40 states have such laws, and by 2004 the US Bureau of Justice reported that “firearms-related crime has plummeted”. In Britain, however, the image of violent America remains unassailably entrenched. Never mind the findings of the International Crime Victims Survey (published by the Home Office in 2003), indicating that we now suffer three times the level of violent crime committed in the United States; never mind the doubling of handgun crime in Britain over the past decade, since we banned pistols outright and confiscated all the legal ones. We are so self-congratulatory about our officially disarmed society, and so dismissive of colonial rednecks, that we have forgotten that within living memory British citizens could buy any gun – rifle, pistol, or machinegun – without any licence. When Dr Watson walked the streets of London with a revolver in his pocket, he was a perfectly ordinary Victorian or Edwardian. Charlotte Brontë recalled that her curate father fastened his watch and pocketed his pistol every morning when he got dressed; Beatrix Potter remarked on a Yorkshire country hotel where only one of the eight or nine guests was not carrying a revolver; in 1909, policemen in Tottenham borrowed at least four pistols from passers-by (and were joined by other armed citizens) when they set off in pursuit of two anarchists unwise enough to attempt an armed robbery. We now are shocked that so many ordinary people should have been carrying guns in the street; the Edwardians were shocked rather by the idea of an armed robbery. If armed crime in London in the years before the First World War amounted to less than 2 per cent of that we suffer today, it was not simply because society then was more stable. Edwardian Britain was rocked by a series of massive strikes in which lives were lost and troops deployed, and suffragette incendiaries, anarchist bombers, Fenians, and the spectre of a revolutionary general strike made Britain then arguably a much more turbulent place than it is today. In that unstable society the impact of the widespread carrying of arms was not inflammatory, it was deterrent of violence. As late as 1951, self-defence was the justification of three quarters of all applications for pistol licences. And in the years 1946-51 armed robbery, the most significant measure of gun crime, ran at less than two dozen incidents a year in London; today, in our disarmed society, we suffer as many every week. Gun controls disarm only the law-abiding, and leave predators with a freer hand. Nearly two and a half million people now fall victim to crimes of violence in Britain every year, more than four every minute: crimes that may devastate lives. It is perhaps a privilege of those who have never had to confront violence to disparage the power to resist. Richard Munday is editor and co-author of Guns & Violence: the Debate Before Lord Cullen"

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ban guns and only criminals will have guns....dont believe me look at all the places that have strict gun control laws or bans

the rest of the world can keep moving into the big brother mindless utophia that they are headed to. more then happy to see it happen to everyone else. you will make a easier population to control by a stronger goverment..where more and more of your rights are taken away and you will have no way to fight back

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By the way, it is completely dishonest to attribute the drop in crime during the past 20 years to the spread of laws allowing concealed weapons.

New York City had the sharpest drop in crime, and violent crime, of any major city in the United States, and NYC has some of the toughest gun control laws on the books.

However, the 15 states with the highest rates of deaths by firearms are all "red" states - states that oppose "gun control laws, allow concealed weapons and voted for Bush.

(Source: U.S. National Center for Health Statistics. Vol 54, No 13, 2006)

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Thanks VIggop, but you already posted that rebuttal, at least post something different, or is that statistic the only thing you can hold on to :)

Many Americans also believe that disarming law abiding citizens will "reduce" crime...it wont, it never will. Murderes, and Criminals will always find a way to get a gun and *SURPRISE* they couldnt care less about

"GUN LAWS".

I think there are now 3 or 4 states which have enacted laws which now allow licensed holders to also carry while they are on campus. This in direct response to what happen at Virginia Tech.

Lets see how many insane idiots try a mass murder at Utah State University or Colorado before a student or teacher puts one between his eyes :)

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I think if an insane idiot wants to commit a mass murder at a university or college campus, he isn't going to give a damn what the gun laws are in the state he's living in. And I'm sure he'll still slaughter plenty of innocent people before Professor John Wayne takes him out - if he doesn't get blown away himself.

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"Many Americans also believe that disarming law abiding citizens will "reduce" crime...it wont, it never will. Murderes, and Criminals will always find a way to get a gun and *SURPRISE* they couldnt care less about

GUN LAWS".

And yet, as the statistics prove, the states with GUN LAWS have lower rates of death by firearms.

*SURPRISE*

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Same reply as for trocks69 on his journal on this topic:

Excuse me, but relating gun control to extermination of dissidents or Jews or whoever is purely polemic. These two issues are not related at all. Just look at regions with civil wars: They all have weapons, and still the death toll is rising. You only can compare things related to each other! Or would you agree to the following inference, athough both premises (or premisses, for our UK friends) are correct:

Americans are humans

Socrates was human

INFERENCE: SOCRATES WAS AMERICAN

Example 2 (even better!):

- UK is rabies-free

- There are no storks in UK

Inference: STORKS CAUSE RABIES

And the topic reminds me of another false inference:

- No cat has two tails

- One cat has one tail more than no cat

Inference: ONE CAT HAS THREE TAILS ;)

Sorry, but your comparisons are a clear example of fallacy! The only question remaining now is, was it a Sophism (paradox of the court) or "only" a paralogism? The rsult would be the same in both cases, but the intentions would be different!

Only once this part is sorted out clearly and the real arguments remain on the table, it makes sense to discuss about personal feelings towards this topic

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kind of over simplflying things isnt it kaunitz

am not going the route of loburt of arguing about single words and there meanings so dont go there not worth my time or use i believe

but using this type of logic is silly at best

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LOBURT, post your sources, you are incorrect.

Myth: Concealed carry laws increase crime

Fact: Forty states(1), comprising the majority of the American population, are "right-to-carry" states. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to carry law became active (as of July, 2006). Nine states deny or restrict the right to carry.

Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Florida?s right-to-carry law started in 1988.

Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida's homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below, and remains it below the national average (as of the last reporting period, 2005)

Fact: The serious crime rate in Texas fell 50% faster than the national average after Texas passed a concealed carry law in 1995.

Myth: People with concealed weapons permits will commit crimes

Fact: The results for the first 30 states that passed ?shallissue? laws for concealed carry permits are similar. Here are some specific cases:

Fact: People with concealed carry permits are:(9)

? 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public

? 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public

Fact: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit a crime. They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime.(10)

Sources and additional info:

1 At publication time two more states, Kansas and Nebraska, have pass shall-issue legislation, but insufficient data was available to determine how the change has impacted crime rates. %

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Sources and additional info continued:

2 Florida Department of Justice, 1998

3 Cramer C and Kopel D. Shall issue: the new wave of concealed handgun permit laws. Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994

9 William Sturdevant, unpublished study reported in August 2000 edition of America?s 1st Freedom

10 Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September, 2000

Retrieved from www.gunfacts.info

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