zeusbheld Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Dear Zeus, Try to at least open your mind Zeus...then you may see..other vaild opinions with valid points. i'll consider it if you lot can offer up something besides "documentaries." otherwise i have other things i could be wasting my time on. better movies, for example. See alot, then they become more clear. I believe US govt knew what was going to happen & they let it happen.There's a key worg missing ....'deception'...It has become your enemy when you believe what other people want you to believe. ie .US Govt the key word missing is "evidence." you've said nothing to convince me you have or have seen any. so maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, i'ts all speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas_K Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Right zeus he convinced me so much that i had made my own comments in this forum before slurms ever joined in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Being the naive person I decided to check out Slums recommended video. Yes you heard it right I did take the 2 hours and waste my life away watching propoganda bullshit. Id like to now point out a few of many changes to america since the 9/11 inside job. 1 Patriot Act 2 Creation of Homeland Security (which should be noted that this newly formed security force has the right to search and seizure with no warrent. They were also given the power to detain without question any person thought to be a threat to national security for an indefinate period of time) 3 Military Tribunal Act 4 Real ID Act Which should be noted is the beginning of the RFID chip age for all american citizens... proof of which is already in some passports authorized and in use already .... ALL passports by 2017 will contain this chpi. The national ID card is scheduled to enter circulation shortly. When first created the cards will have a scannable bar code with all vital information of the cardholder. After a short test with the scannable bar codes the RFID chip will then be substituted into the cards. At which time all american citizens can be monitored and tracked internationally. Just a few ways 9/11 helped america protect their rights and freedoms. Keep fighting the so called war on terror while giving up your rights at an alarming rate !! you're missing something important dear, esteemed poet: you've shown nothing by citing these insidious acts of government that would distinguish them as confirming premeditated US government involvement in the 9/11 attacks as opposed to, say, being examples of opportunism by an unscrupulous administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodghost Posted September 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Dear Zeus, Try to at least open your mind Zeus...then you may see..other vaild opinions with valid points. i'll consider it if you lot can offer up something besides "documentaries." otherwise i have other things i could be wasting my time on. better movies, for example. See alot, then they become more clear. I believe US govt knew what was going to happen & they let it happen.There's a key worg missing ....'deception'...It has become your enemy when you believe what other people want you to believe. ie .US Govt the key word missing is "evidence." you've said nothing to convince me you have or have seen any. so maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, i'ts all speculation. Good fellow, there's evidence all around....oh...that's right instead of conducting extensive testing on the metal they shipped all the metal from wtc all around the world! People! Don't forget what happened....why would the US Govt do that....thermite theory exposed? Mmmmm then there''s all that molten lava from under neath the wtc. Here's the evidence....but you'll debunk this as hogwash too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_52izzNfdMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodghost Posted September 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Survivor story,,,of Sept 11 WTC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV3Pg88dobM&mode=related&search= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 "If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way." - Bertrand Russell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas_K Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Approx 80 video camera in and about the area of the pentagon all capable of recording what happened that day but yet all that has been released to the public is that pathetic 6 frame video showing absolutly nothing Check out the following NORAD activities on 9/11 Operation Vigilant Guardian ....this training ex was a simulation of planes crashing into buildings Operation Northern Vigilance National Reconissance Offices .....training and operating drills with Fema in NYC on 9/11 CIA agent john Fulton 25 year vet of the CIA discussing his teams training on 9/11....the team was training for ....wait you guessed it ....simulated attacks of planes being flown into buildings All of these training scenarios were to take place on 9/11 ....take into account the numerous times after 9/11 that many prominent figures in the govt went on national tv stressing that there was no prior intelligence to such an event. Coincidence that on the day you are training for these scenarios they actually happen .... and fittingly a good portion of your forces are occupied and unable to reply to the FAA's requests..... Any other time in history NORAD has had some pretty impresive numbers when it comes to reacting to these sort of situations....with an average reaction time of 10 minutes .....and on 9/11 80 minutes had passed before any fighters were dispatched after the fact that it was too late !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 "prior intelligence" is probably the best bet for a conspiracy theory regarding 9/11. the demolitions, missiles, etc. are all significantly lacking physical evidence, whereby there's plenty of non-government engineers who say all targets, including the pentagon, were hit by airliners. prior intelligence, however, is easy to suspect and difficult to prove. the ideal 'smoking gun' i suppose would be a government document. it's fairly easy to find evidence that, if an attack on american soil were to occur, it would give a push to the neocon agenda. one can make a pretty good case for negligence, perhaps, and post-9/11 opportunism, but direct involvement is tough to prove. i have yet to see *any* concrete evidence, just speculation of varying degrees of wildness. all this speculation HAS convinced me of one thing: the four (five technically, depending on how you score contractions) scariest words in the english language, apparently, are: we just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodghost Posted September 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 "prior intelligence" is probably the best bet for a conspiracy theory regarding 9/11. the demolitions, missiles, etc. are all significantly lacking physical evidence, whereby there's plenty of non-government engineers who say all targets, including the pentagon, were hit by airliners. prior intelligence, however, is easy to suspect and difficult to prove. the ideal 'smoking gun' i suppose would be a government document. it's fairly easy to find evidence that, if an attack on american soil were to occur, it would give a push to the neocon agenda. one can make a pretty good case for negligence, perhaps, and post-9/11 opportunism, but direct involvement is tough to prove. i have yet to see *any* concrete evidence, just speculation of varying degrees of wildness. all this speculation HAS convinced me of one thing: the four (five technically, depending on how you score contractions) scariest words in the english language, apparently, are: we just don't know. No, not negligence.. You forgot the worg "intention" How can a WT7 come down with only fire...,never before... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0&mode=related&search= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Goodghost, in the first place lots of building comes down from just fire. Secondly, it has been well established WTC7's structure was severely damaged when the other towers came down, making it primed for collapse. And I personally know the last person who escaped from WTC 7. He is certain, as he was actually there, that the building wasnot "blown up" as your wacky conspiracy videos claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas_K Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 "prior intelligence" is probably the best bet for a conspiracy theory regarding 9/11. the demolitions, missiles, etc. are all significantly lacking physical evidence, whereby there's plenty of non-government engineers who say all targets, including the pentagon, were hit by airliners. prior intelligence, however, is easy to suspect and difficult to prove. the ideal 'smoking gun' i suppose would be a government document. it's fairly easy to find evidence that, if an attack on american soil were to occur, it would give a push to the neocon agenda. one can make a pretty good case for negligence, perhaps, and post-9/11 opportunism, but direct involvement is tough to prove. i have yet to see *any* concrete evidence, just speculation of varying degrees of wildness. all this speculation HAS convinced me of one thing: the four (five technically, depending on how you score contractions) scariest words in the english language, apparently, are: we just don't know. No, not negligence.. You forgot the worg "intention" How can a WT7 come down with only fire...,never before... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0&mode=related&search= On WTC 7 ......the official 9/11 Comission report does not mention or offer any evidence as to why WTC 7 collapsed.... a piece of debris started a 2 or 3 or 4 floor fire which then caused the entire building to emplode in exactly the same way a controlled demolition does ..... at no other time in the history of mankind has a skyscraper with reinforced steel and concrete cores collapsed from a fire....but magically on 9/11 a building over 40 stories tall consisting of reinforced steel and concrete completly emplodes from a piece of debris that stared a fire on a few floors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurms Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 the demolitions, missiles, etc. are all significantly lacking physical evidence, whereby there's plenty of non-government engineers who say all targets, including the pentagon, were hit by airliners. Zeus.....do this simple thought experiment... .build a scale model of the buildings....cut of 1 7th of the top of it ...weaken the metal of a few floors if you like ..then go about in any way you like to make that building come down as we saw that day... let me tell you what you will discover...in no way ...none..will you be able to crush the structure like that with the piece you severe..even if you accelerate it's speed far greater than what would be offered by gravity ...throw it down.....do it a few times...triple it's weight....do what you like.....what do you think is going to happen ? If you conclusion is "it's crumble like we saw on September 11th if I drop that 1 7th piece on it....leaving nothing but a pile of ruble "...then fine...so be it....I however can't make peace with that idea...it goes against all common sense the very day I saw the towers come down I immediacy felt it in my gut...."wow...they even put bombs in the towers...how elaborate these terrorists are!" I fully expected this to be the findings and later revealed...but it's denied....This makes me suspicious ....why crash planes into a tower if you have the means to demolish it...a big nagging why around the whole ordeal..... I don't care about the rest....the norad orders, tower 7, the pentagon etc etc etc...some of it is good food for thought ..some of it is utter bullshit .....but those towers man...finding passports ...airplanes that disintegrated ( yes airplanes 100% did hit the towers...probably the pentagon too...but it's valid to ask "why not release the tapes?" I don't think this questions are "idiotic" ...not by a long means...their official explanation involves some strange phenomena .... Zeus a question for you . Why do you think the Bush government went to war with Iraq . Do you believe profit was not at the heart of it ? Or is the profit making from weapons and oil money incidental in your opinion ? Is the idea that with so much money at stake and with the history of American foreign policy that has been proven to stage many events to bring about an agenda....is it crazy for people to question if they played a part in September 11 ? I think it's crazy not to Question this....but mock away and call everyone "stupid and crazy" and do your bit for brainwashing and civil obedience .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodghost Posted September 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas_K Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 How does a man who trained only in flight simulators (yes these simulators are very very real but the important thing to keep in mind ...simulator ...not real) manage the very first time he ever flies a commercial airliner to perfectly excute a flight pattern that seasoned pilots would have a difficult time doing. He managed to fly a commercial airliner with high precision perfectly into the first floor of the pentagon. Also keep in mind that to accomplish this feat you wuld have to fly into the building a few mere feet off the ground. So a guy spends a few hours in a flight simulator and manages to pull off one of the greatest maneouvers of a commercial airliner in human history.... all of which have been captured on dozens of different video camera from many various different angles coming from many different aspects of society. Hotel cameras and the best camera washington blvd w on I-395 are a few examples. Wouldnt you like to see some of that footage...even for a minute if i believed it was a commercial airliner that hit the pentagon.... man i would still love to see that footage it would be straight out of a hollywood action movie sequence. Fly a commercial airliner a few feet off the ground into the first floor of a building ....now thats a good one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 And yet they did it. It happened. There goes your whole freakin' argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurms Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 And yet they did it. It happened.There goes your whole freakin' argument. there's so many better arguments he could have chosen than that one..I wish people would just focus on the how the buildings fell...one thing at a time...just someone offer up a decent plausible way this could have happened...not pancake theory as that has been pretty effectively debunked in my opinion ....do you people actually understand the problems and questiion involved ...or did you hear somewhere that the matter was resolved by popular mechanic and decided that was good enough for you ? It wasn't good enough for a lot of engineers and kicked up more stink that problems it resolved... Oh and to the above question ......yes..they did it...but who and for what agenda ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas_K Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 If they did it and it happened .....why not release just 1 of the dozens of different video angles of it ? O wait they did that with the 6 frame wonder.... anyone who tells me that they can definitively identify the object in that clip is a fool. where is the plane ? Next im gonna hear that titanium and steel rols royce engines just happen to disintegrate ? Take a peek at the pictures of shanksville .... do you see a plane ...... do you see any wreckage ? Please i emplor any of you to find me a picture from shanksville of plane wreckage....bodies seats engines wing fragments....something other than a picture with an empty dark hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurms Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 where is the plane ? Next im gonna hear that titanium and steel rols royce engines just happen to disintegrate ? Take a peek at the pictures of shanksville .... do you see a plane ...... do you see any wreckage ? Please i emplor any of you to find me a picture from shanksville of plane wreckage....bodies seats engines wing fragments....something other than a picture with an empty dark hole now why go to the all trouble to make such an elaborate hoax and not just use a plane ? See its silly stuff like this that discredits the 9/11 arguments...and it pisses me off because it detracts form the real tricky questions... but yeah...with 1 quarter of americans believing on some form that they are being lied to about september 11...release the tapes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas_K Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 just like they used a plane for the pentagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas_K Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Slurms ....with so many different ways to pick through the story i think that its hardly a silly question when its one of the easiest to answer ....show me a picture of plane wreckage at shanksville or a video tape of the plane going into the pentagon..... theWTC were brought down to make way for new ones ...well noted that WTC complex has been deemed an asbestos pit with NYC port authority denying any requests to demolish it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 the demolitions, missiles, etc. are all significantly lacking physical evidence, whereby there's plenty of non-government engineers who say all targets, including the pentagon, were hit by airliners. Zeus.....do this simple thought experiment... .build a scale model of the buildings....cut of 1 7th of the top of it ...weaken the metal of a few floors if you like ..then go about in any way you like to make that building come down as we saw that day... i did a simpler thought experiment: 2 years of materials engineering (before i decided i hated it, changed universities and majors, and became a swinging bohemian). you say you read about physics all the time. understand, then, why a scale model won't be a valid experiment? think about it. let me tell you what you will discover...in no way ...none..will you be able to crush the structure like that with the piece you severe..even if you accelerate it's speed far greater than what would be offered by gravity ...throw it down.....do it a few times...triple it's weight....do what you like.....what do you think is going to happen ? If you conclusion is "it's crumble like we saw on September 11th if I drop that 1 7th piece on it....leaving nothing but a pile of ruble "...then fine...so be it....I however can't make peace with that idea...it goes against all common sense funnily enough, i talked to structural engineers who found it quite plausible. why should i trust your instincts over theirs, or even my own limited knowledge of what happens to steel when you heat it? the very day I saw the towers come down I immediacy felt it in my gut...."wow...they even put bombs in the towers...how elaborate these terrorists are!" I fully expected this to be the findings and later revealed...but it's denied....This makes me suspicious ....why crash planes into a tower if you have the means to demolish it...a big nagging why around the whole ordeal..... when i was a kid i saw a glow coming from the next town. it was a plausible target, a major corporation was based there, and they handled many military contracts. i was convinced i was dead meat, that the nuclear war was on. strangely enough, defying my senses and what little i knew about nuclear war (i had a morbid fascination with it as a kid and knew a bit about what to look for) .... it wasnt'. it was just some peculiar trick of lights and weather. bottom line is, while demolition would not be implausible, according to engineers i've talked to and what little i know of engineering, the buildings' collapse was plausible, and i have yet to hear of any concrete evidence that contradicts that explanation. do remember i was there and knew people rooting around in the rubble doing rescue work. firemen would likely know what to they were looking at, at least according to them. I don't care about the rest....the norad orders, tower 7, the pentagon etc etc etc...some of it is good food for thought ..some of it is utter bullshit .....but those towers man...finding passports ...airplanes that disintegrated ( yes airplanes 100% did hit the towers...probably the pentagon too...but it's valid to ask "why not release the tapes?" not sure what tapes you're talking about. passports are plausible enough. if you think every little thing should be vaporized, how do you explain all the weird bits that get found in other, non-controversial plane crashes? if you believe that the paper documents that rained intact on brooklyn were more or less intact after the destruction of the building (i do; i was there and SAW it), why is it so hard to believe that, when somethign is blown to smithereens, parts would fly everywhere without taking the time to be torn up like some 8-year-old's treasure map? I SAW THE WRECKAGE. it was mostly pulverized concrete but there was some weird **** in there. I don't think this questions are "idiotic" ...not by a long means...their official explanation involves some strange phenomena .... again, point is, the world is full of strange phenomena, most of which fall within our tried and true laws of physics. the idea that two airplanes hit and destroyed the world trade center may not sit well with you, but it does NOT break any laws of physics. Zeus a question for you . Why do you think the Bush government went to war with Iraq . Do you believe profit was not at the heart of it ? Or is the profit making from weapons and oil money incidental in your opinion ? i fear it's even worse. i think maybe these numbnuts actually believed that there'd be a parade in bagdhad and iraq would soon be a model democracy, inspiring democratic revolutions throughout the middle east. if that doesn't scare you more than your coffee shop conspiracy... maybe it should. Is the idea that with so much money at stake and with the history of American foreign policy that has been proven to stage many events to bring about an agenda....is it crazy for people to question if they played a part in September 11 ? it's not crazy to find a conspiracy plausible, and if you'd paid any attention at all, i did say a case could be made for a motive. but it IS crazy to insist that it definitely happened when you can't offer a shred of concrete evidence. and it's wasteful, considering there's plenty that the bush administration has screwed up that is right there in plain sight. I think it's crazy not to Question this....but mock away and call everyone "stupid and crazy" and do your bit for brainwashing and civil obedience .. you're not questioning anything. your'e shrilly insisting that you know what happened, and ignoring evidence in order to do so. are you worried about the bush agenda? i doubt your sincerity, considering your'e doing all you can with your smoke and mirrors dodgy documentaries to distract attention from the creepy **** they've actually done (or not done, as in the case of Katrina). how long have you been on the Bush payroll, slurms? now brace yourself, i'm about to type the four words that obviously scare the **** out of you: we just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 And yet they did it. It happened.There goes your whole freakin' argument. there's so many better arguments he could have chosen than that one..I wish people would just focus on the how the buildings fell.. why? you refuse to focus on it yourself, at honestly. .one thing at a time...just someone offer up a decent plausible way this could have happened...not pancake theory as that has been pretty effectively debunked in my opinion .... again i don't care much about your opinion as you have demonstrated a stark ignorance of properties and structures of the materials in question (like steel). do you people actually understand the problems and questiion involved .. not very well, no. but a LOT better than you, apparently. .or did you hear somewhere that the matter was resolved by popular mechanic and decided that was good enough for you ? It wasn't good enough for a lot of engineers and kicked up more stink that problems it resolved... funny thing is, i have yet to meet a structural engineer or materials engineer who buys the bomb theory. a demolition of that scale would leave LOTS of evidence. why wasn't there any in evidence of demolition the dust that covered lower manhattan? don't give me that horseshit about 'the government disposed of all the evidence.' it tooks weeks to clean up lower manhattan, and i walked around those dust-covered buildings. had i had any reason to, i could have collected that dust myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas_K Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurms Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 funny thing is, i have yet to meet a structural engineer or materials engineer who buys the bomb theory. a demolition of that scale would leave LOTS of evidence. why wasn't there any in evidence of demolition the dust that covered lower manhattan? don't give me that horseshit about 'the government disposed of all the evidence.' it tooks weeks to clean up lower manhattan, and i walked around those dust-covered buildings. had i had any reason to, i could have collected that dust myself. The molten steel ? the thermite ? concrete turned to dust ? traces of aluminum oxide ? iron oxide ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uNbKJofv3c Re: structural engineers ...If you haven't met them I suppose they lose credibility ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 9, 2007 Report Share Posted September 9, 2007 [Re: structural engineers ...If you haven't met them I suppose they lose credibility ? whereas in your eyes, even if i *did* meet them, they lose credibility by not agreeing with you. :roll: have fun, maybe you can make your OWN documentary on the 'conspiracy.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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