Life on Mars?

[Mazzy]

The beginning of the cold war was the golden age of NASA and space exploration in general. Since the 80's very little has happened. I remember space and cosmonauts were so hip when I was young... What happened???

And more importantly is space exploration a thing of the past, will man set foot on other planets in my lifetime? A few years ago, aerospace engineer Robert Zubrin wrote a book called "The case for Mars" where he advocated the construction of a permanent base on Mars... I wonder if I will ever see this through...?

[samy5000]

Scientists are still trying to figure out if there was ever life on Mars, but if there was at one point, it's very unlikely that it was intelligent life that could create some sort of Face on the surface for us to see... If there ever was life (and there surely could have been since we think there was at one point flowing water on the planet), it was probably something resembling bacterial life.

but if u wana be sure , you must ask David Bowy ...he said there is life on mars ( cant remember the song name ) :roll:

[zeusbheld]

seeing as the question is whether we humans should *be* that life on mars, not whether there ever had been, i doubt whatever was there before is relevant, unless it's still there. although given the sturdiness of various kinds of microbes, i wouldn't be THAT surprised to find 'em there.

i think a) yes, we should visit, yes a base would have immense potential, and c) long-term, the possibility of terraforming mars is intriguing.

while terraforming is theoretically not impossible according to some scientists, until we figure out what to do and how to do it with earth's own climate i'm skeptical as to whether we could pull it off. that would be a long way off anyway, and once started it would by most accounts take a long, LONG time before mars becomes "Earth 2" or anything like it.

[Thomas_K]

the existance of intelligent life can be basically wiped away within 10 000 years of the species going extinct

relative to the time the universe has been around ....... who really knows what could of lived on mars ......and how many times did it happen

same could be said of our own planet

going there wont answer all the questions about mars but will surely be helpful to understanding it

[zeusbheld]

the existance of intelligent life can be basically wiped away within 10 000 years of the species going extinct

relative to the time the universe has been around ....... who really knows what could of lived on mars ......and how many times did it happen

same could be said of our own planet

well at least for earth we have a pretty good idea, in broad strokes, what sorts of things lived when and roughly how they developed, it isn't random or arbitrary. there's quite a bit of evidence.

if by existence of intelligent life, you mean all evidence can be wiped out within 10,,000 years, that's not impossible but not very likely. especially if the aforementioned life built things and made tools, although it's entirely possible that intelligent life that didn't build anything has existed (or exists).

[R.Win]

Scientists are still trying to figure out if there was ever life on Mars, but if there was at one point, it's very unlikely that it was intelligent life that could create some sort of Face on the surface for us to see... If there ever was life (and there surely could have been since we think there was at one point flowing water on the planet), it was probably something resembling bacterial life.

but if u wana be sure , you must ask David Bowy ...he said there is life on mars ( cant remember the song name ) :roll:

They are not trying to figure out if there was life, they're tryingto figure out how to live there. THERE IS some proof that there was bacterial life on Mars, I thought I heard it on the radio about 10 years ago or so. So I used my googlebox to surf to Wickedpedia to come up with the picture...

But like Zeus said, if it is possible to live there for humans it will take so damn long before it's gonna happen. Guess none of the people on this forum will live to see that.

[Thomas_K]

if today every human left earth the only things remaining after 10 000 years would be the great wall of china ( very little ) and possibly some other large quality stone structures like mt rushmore ( its made of a big old chunk of granite )

everything else would return to the earth that it came from

check out a movie called

life after people .... a history channel special presentation

[zeusbheld]

if today every human left earth the only things remaining after 10 000 years would be the great wall of china ( very little ) and possibly some other large quality stone structures like mt rushmore ( its made of a big old chunk of granite )

everything else would return to the earth that it came from

check out a movie called

life after people .... a history channel special presentation

there quite likely would be fossils and other artifacts, would there not? in other words, it may not *look* like much, just like it isn't obvious that dinosaurs once walked the earth. that was MILLIONS, not thousands, of years ago. we have a LOT of fossil evidence they existed.

do you really think that in ten thousand years, or a few million, that there woudlnt' be enough fossilized H. sapiens crania for whatever comes after to find at least one?

[R.Win]

if today every human left earth the only things remaining after 10 000 years would be the great wall of china ( very little ) and possibly some other large quality stone structures like mt rushmore ( its made of a big old chunk of granite )

everything else would return to the earth that it came from

check out a movie called

life after people .... a history channel special presentation

there quite likely would be fossils and other artifacts, would there not? in other words, it may not *look* like much, just like it isn't obvious that dinosaurs once walked the earth. that was MILLIONS, not thousands, of years ago. we have a LOT of fossil evidence they existed.

do you really think that in ten thousand years, or a few million, that there woudlnt' be enough fossilized H. sapiens crania for whatever comes after to find at least one?

I'd say that checking out that history channel movie would be a waste of time if you want to have a realistic picture of the earth in 10.000 years after we'd be gone.

[Thomas_K]

i was talking about cities infrastructure....things made by man not man himself

should of been more specific

of course they are going to find bones they find bones all the time of all sorts of different kinds of life

win...... id say its a pretty good show to watch as its done by professionals so i assume they have put some thought into it and have backed it up with existing scenarios around the world to illustrate the points they are making

[R.Win]

i was talking about cities infrastructure....things made by man not man himself

should of been more specific

of course they are going to find bones they find bones all the time of all sorts of different kinds of life

win...... id say its a pretty good show to watch as its done by professionals so i assume they have put some thought into it and have backed it up with existing scenarios around the world to illustrate the points they are making

I'm happy to agree with you now

[zeusbheld]

i was talking about cities infrastructure....things made by man not man himself

should of been more specific

of course they are going to find bones they find bones all the time of all sorts of different kinds of life

win...... id say its a pretty good show to watch as its done by professionals so i assume they have put some thought into it and have backed it up with existing scenarios around the world to illustrate the points they are making

yeah, but paleontologists could comprehend the shape and structure of our brains from the inside of even one well-preserved fossilized skull. from the massive frontal lobes, our level of intelligence as a species would be pretty obvious, regardless of whether any cultural artifacts found.

as to the documentary, while i'm sure it's interesting, paleontology is done by professional paleontoloigsts, generally, and archaeology by archaeologists, both of whom are, on average, more reliable sources of information on both subjects than professional filmmakers.

incidentally, if you're interested in human artifacts, the Venus of Willendorf is about 35,000 years old.

[Thomas_K]

i was talking about cities infrastructure....things made by man not man himself

should of been more specific

of course they are going to find bones they find bones all the time of all sorts of different kinds of life

win...... id say its a pretty good show to watch as its done by professionals so i assume they have put some thought into it and have backed it up with existing scenarios around the world to illustrate the points they are making

yeah, but paleontologists could comprehend the shape and structure of our brains from the inside of even one well-preserved fossilized skull. from the massive frontal lobes, our level of intelligence as a species would be pretty obvious, regardless of whether any cultural artifacts found.

as to the documentary, while i'm sure it's interesting, paleontology is done by professional paleontoloigsts, generally, and archaeology by archaeologists, both of whom are, on average, more reliable sources of information on both subjects than professional filmmakers.

incidentally, if you're interested in human artifacts, the Venus of Willendorf is about 35,000 years old.

the professionals were all in the respective feilds you have mentioned

im not talking about who made the film

im talking about who presented the information and what information they presented

[Thomas_K]

10 000 years without mans help and the pyramids would be swallowed underneath the sand

[zeusbheld]

i was talking about cities infrastructure....things made by man not man himself

should of been more specific

of course they are going to find bones they find bones all the time of all sorts of different kinds of life

win...... id say its a pretty good show to watch as its done by professionals so i assume they have put some thought into it and have backed it up with existing scenarios around the world to illustrate the points they are making

yeah, but paleontologists could comprehend the shape and structure of our brains from the inside of even one well-preserved fossilized skull. from the massive frontal lobes, our level of intelligence as a species would be pretty obvious, regardless of whether any cultural artifacts found.

as to the documentary, while i'm sure it's interesting, paleontology is done by professional paleontoloigsts, generally, and archaeology by archaeologists, both of whom are, on average, more reliable sources of information on both subjects than professional filmmakers.

incidentally, if you're interested in human artifacts, the Venus of Willendorf is about 35,000 years old.

the professionals were all in the respective feilds you have mentioned

im not talking about who made the film

im talking about who presented the information and what information they presented

regardless of who talks in them, films are made by filmmakers. documentaries tend to eflect the point of view of the filmmakers and/or money behind the film. you can yeahbut it all you want, and yes it's an opinion, but i studied filmmaking, so it's not like i don't have the faintest clue what i'm talking about.

aside from that, i seriously doubt that any of the scientists interviewed would claim that, ten thousand years past our extiinction, there would be so little evidence left of our ever having existed that hypothetically no one could figure out we existed, nor our relative intelligence.

without seeing the doc i'd guess that their point was that we can be gone without leaving *much* of a trace very quickly, but what you said was not that. it was:

the existance of intelligent life can be basically wiped away within 10 000 years of the species going extinct

relative to the time the universe has been around ....... who really knows what could of lived on mars ......and how many times did it happen

same could be said of our own planet

who really knows what could have lived on earth in particular? we have a pretty damn good idea what HAS lived on earth, and i doubt you'd find scientists in relevant fields who'd say any hypothetical alien paleontologists who landed here ten thousand or even a million years from now couldn't find any trace of us nor gauge our relative intelligence.

and if enough human paleontologists spent enough time on mars, odds are if something had been there, they'd find *some* trace of it.

if you really want to make the case that a million years from now there'd be no trace, back it up with science papers not documentaries. without a trace in television terms is not the same as without a trace in scientific terms.

[Bruce551]

Read "Red, Blue, and Green Mars by Kim Stanly Robbinson

Also, "The Marian Race" by Greg Bear

[Thomas_K]

without seeing the doc i'd guess that their point was that we can be gone without leaving *much* of a trace very quickly, but what you said was not that. it was:

the existance of intelligent life can be basically wiped away within 10 000 years of the species going extinct

without leaving much of a trace and basically wiped away are putting forth the same general idea sorry if that confuses you

at no time did i say all traces of us would be gone

you also neglected to leave out that i said a few things would remain

some stone artifacts would last longer like i sad

[zeusbheld]

without leaving much of a trace and basically wiped away are putting forth the same general idea sorry if that confuses you

at no time did i say all traces of us would be gone

you also neglected to leave out that i said a few things would remain

some stone artifacts would last longer like i sad

which is true, but doesn't support this conclusion:

who really knows what could of lived on mars ......and how many times did it happen

same could be said of our own planet

and therein lies the confusion.

i'd imagine most evolutionary biologists have a good general idea of what could have lived on earth, and given enough time and enough digs could have a pretty damn good idea what could have lived on mars. just coz we don't know yet doesn't necessarily mean we *can't* know.

[Thomas_K]

who really knows what could of lived on mars ......and how many times did it happen

same could be said of our own planet

and therein lies the confusion.

i'd imagine most evolutionary biologists have a good general idea of what could have lived on earth, and given enough time and enough digs could have a pretty damn good idea what could have lived on mars. just coz we don't know yet doesn't necessarily mean we *can't* know.

you can have lots of ideas about what has or has not lived on mars

but to date there is no evidence so until we go and actually find out

everything is just a guess or someones theory based on what we know about life on earth....as we are finding out life can flourish in conditions we never thought possible before

[zeusbheld]

who really knows what could of lived on mars ......and how many times did it happen

same could be said of our own planet

and therein lies the confusion.

i'd imagine most evolutionary biologists have a good general idea of what could have lived on earth, and given enough time and enough digs could have a pretty damn good idea what could have lived on mars. just coz we don't know yet doesn't necessarily mean we *can't* know.

you can have lots of ideas about what has or has not lived on mars

but to date there is no evidence so until we go and actually find out

everything is just a guess or someones theory based on what we know about life on earth....as we are finding out life can flourish in conditions we never thought possible before

have we gotten to the part wherein you explain how "same could be said of our own planet"?

you murdered those quote boxes btw.

[Thomas_K]

not so good at editing the boxes

[Mazzy]

you can have lots of ideas about what has or has not lived on mars

but to date there is no evidence so until we go and actually find out

Well, we actually did send probes, who came back with lots info and I think the question of "was there life on Mars" could be resolved fairly quickly . The next two probes sheduled to explore Mars, NASA Phoenix Mars lander and Mars Science Laboratory should already be able to feed us a lot of additional info on this.

Now, on to the more complex question of when are we gonna get there. According to french Wikipedia (which I agree, is only reliable up to a point), the European Space Agency believe that the first human missions to Mars will be possible around 2030 (A preliminary probe mission is set for 2011 or 2013).

The NASA is less optimistic they are only talking about the possibility of resuming human mission on the moon around 2015, nothing about Mars...

As for Titan, it's an interesting new finding but it's way to far for anything significant to happen there in the near future. (BTW nice to see one girl interested in space exploration on TF, didn't think there would be any )

[Thomas_K]

you can have lots of ideas about what has or has not lived on mars

but to date there is no evidence so until we go and actually find out

Well, we actually did send probes, who came back with lots info and I think the question of "was there life on Mars" could be resolved fairly quickly . The next two probes sheduled to explore Mars, NASA Phoenix Mars lander and Mars Science Laboratory should already be able to feed us a lot of additional info on this.

yet we are still havent answered that question even after the probes have been there ....... maybe the next probes will find something

but odds are being there is your best bet to finding something

[zeusbheld]

(BTW nice to see one girl interested in space exploration on TF, didn't think there would be any )

I love it I used to be crazy about astronomy but then when I enter the med school I have to waste my neurons on Anatomy which is so boring ! well but it's amazing anyway ..... Hehe and I like to make crazy hypotheses about space you know ..... day dreaming !! but my friends always laugh at me anyway they think I'm crazy .. Am I?

ha i had the coolest physics teacher in the world in high school. he got the job done but was a total smartass and as long as we were talking physics we could hijack the class with all sorts of loopy questions like "what about faster-than-light travel?" "wormholes"?" all that sort of stuff, and often had him talking about the bullshit "physics" in sci fi movies.

it's a damn shame the way science is taught in most schools, they squeeze the life out of it. i've met a few actual scientists who are doing significant work, and at that level a scientist NEEDS to not just know the material and do a lot of math but be creative.

damn shame so many schools (and this happens everywhere) see science classes as a way of beating the imagination out of students. good to see that they haven't suceeded with you yet, even if you *are* a ManUre fan.

[PeeMarc]

(BTW nice to see one girl interested in space exploration on TF, didn't think there would be any )

I love it I used to be crazy about astronomy but then when I enter the med school I have to waste my neurons on Anatomy which is so boring ! well but it's amazing anyway ..... Hehe and I like to make crazy hypotheses about space you know ..... day dreaming !! but my friends always laugh at me anyway they think I'm crazy .. Am I?

ha i had the coolest physics teacher in the world in high school. he got the job done but was a total smartass and as long as we were talking physics we could hijack the class with all sorts of loopy questions like "what about faster-than-light travel?" "wormholes"?" all that sort of stuff, and often had him talking about the bullshit "physics" in sci fi movies.

it's a damn shame the way science is taught in most schools, they squeeze the life out of it. i've met a few actual scientists who are doing significant work, and at that level a scientist NEEDS to not just know the material and do a lot of math but be creative.

damn shame so many schools (and this happens everywhere) see science classes as a way of beating the imagination out of students. good to see that they haven't suceeded with you yet, even if you *are* a ManUre fan.

Agree. I remember as a kid loving a show on TV every saturday morning called "Why is it so?".

There was the totally mad Professor Sumner Miller in front of his Uni class, lecturing physics in the most amazing ways.

I learnt how to get a peeled, hard boiled egg into the top of a milk bottle (the old fashioned type), whole, without breaking it. And really neat stuff like that.

"So, I ask you people..... why is it so?" He would say.