[ B R I B E S ]

[PeeMarc]

Do you pay them?

What do think or feel about them?

How much money is considered a bribe and not just a 'tip'.

[i_love_som_tam]

bribe who? the police? the phone company? other gov't officials?

my ex gf use to toss out bribes to the police all the time. she would get pulled over in all the areas where people do things wrong, like no u-turn allowed, and get flagged down. she flip her drivers license to them along with 300 baht.

she explained the police get 50% of the fines so why not give them their money up front. nothing on her record. no hassles of having to go to the police station, paying 600 baht and then returning to the cop checkpoint to show the receipt and get her license back.

being a cop for nearly 30 years, this went against my grain. many bars here pay the cops to stay open late, have sex shows, etc. we abide by the law.l we do not want them to get their foot in the door with us.

my neighbor had to pay a 20,000 baht bribe to the guy at TOT to get a phone line in his house. they met at the Tesco Lotus parking lot in Phuket town, exchanged the 20,000 baht and by the time he got home, they were stringing his phone line. he needed it for business so his company reimbursed him for the bribe.

i've been trying to get a phone line in the bar for nearly a year. a 4 to 12 month waiting list. we will not pay 20,000 baht for a phone line.

i guess it depends on what your needs are and what you want to pay.

[hbkbkk]

actually in my business, we ae not worry about paying bribe. we are more worry about people that doesn't take bribe.

[PeeMarc]

actually in my business, we ae not worry about paying bribe. we are more worry about people that doesn't take bribe.

Does that concern you at all?

[Geri]

Do you pay them?

What do think or feel about them?

How much money is considered a bribe and not just a 'tip'.

I once was asked to pull over by a traffic police officer - ... asked him what my offense was and he kept giving me different reasons - Persuaded him not to give me a ticket but if he must then I can't do anything about it....Then he was the one who told me to just pay him 500 pesos. - I told him, I don't have that money so just issue me a ticket. (with matching teary sad eyes)... He eventually let me go. - Didn't pay anything and didn't get a ticket. =) - I was pretty sure I didn't commit any reckless driving - and I guess he realized he won't be able to extract any amount from me.

I feel bad if I have to give a bribe... I just think it's not the right thing to do.

[tonyP]

Do you pay them?

What do think or feel about them?

How much money is considered a bribe and not just a 'tip'.

I once was asked to pull over by a traffic police officer - ... asked him what my offense was and he kept giving me different reasons - Persuaded him not to give me a ticket but if he must then I can't do anything about it....Then he was the one who told me to just pay him 500 pesos. - I told him, I don't have that money so just issue me a ticket. (with matching teary sad eyes)... He eventually let me go. - Didn't pay anything and didn't get a ticket. =) - I was pretty sure I didn't commit any reckless driving - and I guess he realized he won't be able to extract any amount from me.

I feel bad if I have to give a bribe... I just think it's not the right thing to do.

It keeps you out of jail, just like paying a fine does.

A friend of mine was recently caught distributing substances... morales aside this as a good friend of mine. The price tag for his release was substantial. 3.2 million BHT. Now, the questions is - should we be thankfull for the opportunity to "buy" a good friend out of the situation and raise the funds to pay the bribe or should we believe in traditional justice and leave him to his own devices???

BRIBES - a good thing or a scar on society?

[PeeMarc]

Do you pay them?

What do think or feel about them?

How much money is considered a bribe and not just a 'tip'.

I once was asked to pull over by a traffic police officer - ... asked him what my offense was and he kept giving me different reasons - Persuaded him not to give me a ticket but if he must then I can't do anything about it....Then he was the one who told me to just pay him 500 pesos. - I told him, I don't have that money so just issue me a ticket. (with matching teary sad eyes)... He eventually let me go. - Didn't pay anything and didn't get a ticket. =) - I was pretty sure I didn't commit any reckless driving - and I guess he realized he won't be able to extract any amount from me.

I feel bad if I have to give a bribe... I just think it's not the right thing to do.

It keeps you out of jail, just like paying a fine does.

A friend of mine was recently caught distributing substances... morales aside this as a good friend of mine. The price tag for his release was substantial. 3.2 million BHT. Now, the questions is - should we be thankfull for the opportunity to "buy" a good friend out of the situation and raise the funds to pay the bribe or should we believe in traditional justice and leave him to his own devices???

BRIBES - a good thing or a scar on society?

That is a moral dilemma which will find no answer completely satisfactory to every party.

For me, I would not condone either selling 'substances' or paying a bribe. Paying the bribe, in fact, would act as actually condoning both things.

This doesn't seem like a morally good thing to me (mateship aside)

If he was not your friend, and you had a completely objective view of that situation, would you agree?

I think bribes are a scare on society, as many other things are.

[tonyP]

Do you pay them?

What do think or feel about them?

How much money is considered a bribe and not just a 'tip'.

I once was asked to pull over by a traffic police officer - ... asked him what my offense was and he kept giving me different reasons - Persuaded him not to give me a ticket but if he must then I can't do anything about it....Then he was the one who told me to just pay him 500 pesos. - I told him, I don't have that money so just issue me a ticket. (with matching teary sad eyes)... He eventually let me go. - Didn't pay anything and didn't get a ticket. =) - I was pretty sure I didn't commit any reckless driving - and I guess he realized he won't be able to extract any amount from me.

I feel bad if I have to give a bribe... I just think it's not the right thing to do.

It keeps you out of jail, just like paying a fine does.

A friend of mine was recently caught distributing substances... morales aside this as a good friend of mine. The price tag for his release was substantial. 3.2 million BHT. Now, the questions is - should we be thankfull for the opportunity to "buy" a good friend out of the situation and raise the funds to pay the bribe or should we believe in traditional justice and leave him to his own devices???

BRIBES - a good thing or a scar on society?

That is a moral dilemma which will find no answer completely satisfactory to every party.

For me, I would not condone either selling 'substances' or paying a bribe. Paying the bribe, in fact, would act as actually condoning both things.

This doesn't seem like a morally good thing to me (mateship aside)

If he was not your friend, and you had a completely objective view of that situation, would you agree?

I think bribes are a scare on society, as many other things are.

Point taken... However, as a moral person, which you must be to disagree with both substance abuse and bribary, is it not morally wrong to watch a friend (regardless of his or her bad life decisions) rot away in a thai prison when this could have been avoided for an expense of something as material as cash flow?

[PeeMarc]

Do you pay them?

What do think or feel about them?

How much money is considered a bribe and not just a 'tip'.

I once was asked to pull over by a traffic police officer - ... asked him what my offense was and he kept giving me different reasons - Persuaded him not to give me a ticket but if he must then I can't do anything about it....Then he was the one who told me to just pay him 500 pesos. - I told him, I don't have that money so just issue me a ticket. (with matching teary sad eyes)... He eventually let me go. - Didn't pay anything and didn't get a ticket. =) - I was pretty sure I didn't commit any reckless driving - and I guess he realized he won't be able to extract any amount from me.

I feel bad if I have to give a bribe... I just think it's not the right thing to do.

It keeps you out of jail, just like paying a fine does.

A friend of mine was recently caught distributing substances... morales aside this as a good friend of mine. The price tag for his release was substantial. 3.2 million BHT. Now, the questions is - should we be thankfull for the opportunity to "buy" a good friend out of the situation and raise the funds to pay the bribe or should we believe in traditional justice and leave him to his own devices???

BRIBES - a good thing or a scar on society?

That is a moral dilemma which will find no answer completely satisfactory to every party.

For me, I would not condone either selling 'substances' or paying a bribe. Paying the bribe, in fact, would act as actually condoning both things.

This doesn't seem like a morally good thing to me (mateship aside)

If he was not your friend, and you had a completely objective view of that situation, would you agree?

I think bribes are a scare on society, as many other things are.

Point taken... However, as a moral person, which you must be to disagree with both substance abuse and bribary, is it not morally wrong to watch a friend (regardless of his or her bad life decisions) rot away in a thai prison when this could have been avoided for an expense of something as material as cash flow?

Ok. perhaps i should have put a small disclaimer on my last post :wink:

"A principle is not really a principle unless it costs you something."

Paying the bribe, or not paying the bribe - either way there is a principle involved. Something or someone is going to bear the cost. Cash? Life? Society?

A moral dilemma worth avoiding wherever humanly possible.

But hey, like most of us here, I've had to pay a bribe in the past. So I'm certainly not sitting on some moral mountain about this

[tonyP]

Do you pay them?

What do think or feel about them?

How much money is considered a bribe and not just a 'tip'.

I once was asked to pull over by a traffic police officer - ... asked him what my offense was and he kept giving me different reasons - Persuaded him not to give me a ticket but if he must then I can't do anything about it....Then he was the one who told me to just pay him 500 pesos. - I told him, I don't have that money so just issue me a ticket. (with matching teary sad eyes)... He eventually let me go. - Didn't pay anything and didn't get a ticket. =) - I was pretty sure I didn't commit any reckless driving - and I guess he realized he won't be able to extract any amount from me.

I feel bad if I have to give a bribe... I just think it's not the right thing to do.

It keeps you out of jail, just like paying a fine does.

A friend of mine was recently caught distributing substances... morales aside this as a good friend of mine. The price tag for his release was substantial. 3.2 million BHT. Now, the questions is - should we be thankfull for the opportunity to "buy" a good friend out of the situation and raise the funds to pay the bribe or should we believe in traditional justice and leave him to his own devices???

BRIBES - a good thing or a scar on society?

That is a moral dilemma which will find no answer completely satisfactory to every party.

For me, I would not condone either selling 'substances' or paying a bribe. Paying the bribe, in fact, would act as actually condoning both things.

This doesn't seem like a morally good thing to me (mateship aside)

If he was not your friend, and you had a completely objective view of that situation, would you agree?

I think bribes are a scare on society, as many other things are.

Point taken... However, as a moral person, which you must be to disagree with both substance abuse and bribary, is it not morally wrong to watch a friend (regardless of his or her bad life decisions) rot away in a thai prison when this could have been avoided for an expense of something as material as cash flow?

Ok. perhaps i should have put a small disclaimer on my last post :wink:

"A principle is not really a principle unless it costs you something."

Paying the bribe, or not paying the bribe - either way there is a principle involved. Something or someone is going to bear the cost. Cash? Life? Society?

A moral dilemma worth avoiding wherever humanly possible.

But hey, like most of us here, I've had to pay a bribe in the past. So I'm certainly not sitting on some moral mountain about this

C'mon, get off the fence, it must be hurting by now :wink:

Would you contribute or not????? :?

[PeeMarc]

To add to my above comment, i dont think the question in your case is whether to pay the bribe or not. The emotional truth for you lies in - does the punishment fit the crime? For example, if your friend's crime had taken place in your own country, would you accept the outcome of his arrest and the courts conviction?

Probably yes.

But, since you now see your friend is going to 'rot' in a Thai prison AND you know that bribary is an option to free him, you see you can bend your morals AND have a bloody good rationale for doing so.

I would probably be very tempted in your situation. But I don't know what i would actually do, because I am not in it.

[tonyP]

To add to my above comment, i dont think the question in your case is whether to pay the bribe or not. The emotional truth for you lies in - does the punishment fit the crime? For example, if your friend's crime had taken place in your own country, would you accept the outcome of his arrest and the courts conviction?

Probably yes.

But, since you now see your friend is going to 'rot' in a Thai prison AND you know that bribary is an option to free him, you see you can bend your morals AND have a bloody good rationale for doing so.

I would probably be very tempted in your situation. But I don't know what i would actually do, because I am not in it.

Do you have commitment issues in all aspects of life or just this one???

Make a decision for f*cks sake! :?

[PeeMarc]

PS... I've been involved with all sorts of 'substances' and at one time spent a lot of my life helping abusers get sorted out. So my opinion of this dilemma is definately skewed. Ive had a lot of experience with all sides to this.

If your friend is freed, from your bribe, you must know the chances are probably very high he will commit again in the future.

I would never believe that 'rotting' in a Thai jail is a fitting or humane punishment for this crime though.

[koolbreez]

The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.

[i_love_som_tam]

A friend of mine was recently caught distributing substances... morales aside this as a good friend of mine. The price tag for his release was substantial. 3.2 million BHT. Now, the questions is - should we be thankfull for the opportunity to "buy" a good friend out of the situation and raise the funds to pay the bribe or should we believe in traditional justice and leave him to his own devices???

BRIBES - a good thing or a scar on society?

it's a good thing Thailand is no longer executing drug dealers. the price tag could have been higher or non existent.

the thing is, when someone comes to a another country and starts slinging dope as a quick way to make money, they get what they deserve. as i mentioned before, i am opposed to bribery of any type. i can look the other way to get out of a traffic ticket but as far as dealing drugs, vehicular homicide (1 million baht), robbery are concerned, the cops are just as guilty for taking the bribes as are the suspects that committed the crimes.

they are condoning illegal acts by accepting bribes.

[PeeMarc]

To add to my above comment, i dont think the question in your case is whether to pay the bribe or not. The emotional truth for you lies in - does the punishment fit the crime? For example, if your friend's crime had taken place in your own country, would you accept the outcome of his arrest and the courts conviction?

Probably yes.

But, since you now see your friend is going to 'rot' in a Thai prison AND you know that bribary is an option to free him, you see you can bend your morals AND have a bloody good rationale for doing so.

I would probably be very tempted in your situation. But I don't know what i would actually do, because I am not in it.

Do you have commitment issues in all aspects of life or just this one???

Make a decision for f*cks sake! :?

I'm giving you my opinions. I am not judge or jury, nor wish to be.If I was in your situation, you can rest assured i would definately make a decision. But I am not, so I can see many angles of this situation. i would have thought these much more helpful to your thought process that just saying yes or no.

And for the record, I DONT agree with bribery.

[tonyP]

To add to my above comment, i dont think the question in your case is whether to pay the bribe or not. The emotional truth for you lies in - does the punishment fit the crime? For example, if your friend's crime had taken place in your own country, would you accept the outcome of his arrest and the courts conviction?

Probably yes.

But, since you now see your friend is going to 'rot' in a Thai prison AND you know that bribary is an option to free him, you see you can bend your morals AND have a bloody good rationale for doing so.

I would probably be very tempted in your situation. But I don't know what i would actually do, because I am not in it.

Do you have commitment issues in all aspects of life or just this one???

Make a decision for f*cks sake! :?

I'm giving you my opinions. I am not judge or jury, nor wish to be.If I was in your situation, you can rest assured i would definately make a decision. But I am not, so I can see many angles of this situation. i would have thought these much more helpful to your thought process that just saying yes or no.

And for the record, I DONT agree with bribery.

Not giving you a hard time... just stirring the pot...

I guess the question is; at what point do you not assist a friend in need? What is of more importance, your morales or your mateships? Sure he made the wrong decision, but, does the crime fit the punishment - a life time for a few grams?

[PeeMarc]

I guess the question is; at what point do you not assist a friend in need? What is of more importance, your morales or your mateships? Sure he made the wrong decision, but, does the crime fit the punishment - a life time for a few grams?

Now this is a rational question. Then, of course you need to decide how much your personal integrity is actually worth? Surely, you have an obligation to yourself, before you have any obligation to anyone else.

I repeat, you need to add into this equation that the chances are very high he will commit again. The other thing I think its worth adding in is that the punishment for his actions weren't any surprise him or anyone else. He did it KNOWING this would happen eventually.

Now what is your integrity worth?

You already know the answer. What you are looking for are some really solid excuses if you do sell your integrity for your mate.

[tonyP]

I guess the question is; at what point do you not assist a friend in need? What is of more importance, your morales or your mateships? Sure he made the wrong decision, but, does the crime fit the punishment - a life time for a few grams?

Now this is a rational question. Then, of course you need to decide how much your personal integrity is actually worth? Surely, you have an obligation to yourself, before you have any obligation to anyone else.

I repeat, you need to add into this equation that the chances are very high he will commit again. The other thing I think its worth adding in is that the punishment for his actions weren't any surprise him or anyone else. He did it KNOWING this would happen eventually.

Now what is your integrity worth?

You already know the answer. What you are looking for are some really solid excuses if you do sell your integrity for your mate.

Well, I had already made a decision as incidentaly the question is a few weeks old. I would have contributed all I could and more to help a mate as I couldn't sleep at night knowing I could have done more.

However, the opportunity passed as soon as it arose. Surprisingly, you can be held in a thai judicial prison for 86 days without charge or explanation...

[PeeMarc]

I have 5 'friends' in jail both in Singapore and in Thailand for 'substances'. One was a high-flying magazine editor. Two had a successful businesses.

One 'friend' has been in 'remand' in Thailand for over 3 years. His case is yet to be heard in court. No defense lawyer in Thailand want to help him. He was cuaght red-handed with so much. And until the court can appoint one for him, he still sits there and hopes.

[Geri]

It keeps you out of jail, just like paying a fine does.

Well, I am sure my driving was fine... I was just a victim during that time - If I had committed something wrong, I should have been given a ticket when I refused to give him a bribe.... but he let me go.... Paying a bribe might keep someone out of jail, but like I said, I don't feel good and won't feel good if I do that.

Yes, had 2 experiences of paying bribes - when I was a lot younger... Didn't know what else to do as everyone said that's the only way to go about it... (Nothing serious, just some documents that needed to be processed)... I did what everyone else did and I didn't feel good about that afterwards... Promised myself never to pay extra or bribe anyone again.

[vbroker]

bribe who? the police? the phone company? other gov't officials?

my ex gf use to toss out bribes to the police all the time. she would get pulled over in all the areas where people do things wrong, like no u-turn allowed, and get flagged down. she flip her drivers license to them along with 300 baht.

she explained the police get 50% of the fines so why not give them their money up front. nothing on her record. no hassles of having to go to the police station, paying 600 baht and then returning to the cop checkpoint to show the receipt and get her license back.

This is the number one reason the country is mired in the third world and why corruption is a "business expense" versus a crime. As long as Thais consider this behavior acceptable; the country will remain mired.

my neighbor had to pay a 20,000 baht bribe to the guy at TOT to get a phone line in his house. they met at the Tesco Lotus parking lot in Phuket town, exchanged the 20,000 baht and by the time he got home, they were stringing his phone line. he needed it for business so his company reimbursed him for the bribe.

i've been trying to get a phone line in the bar for nearly a year. a 4 to 12 month waiting list. we will not pay 20,000 baht for a phone line.

Then there's the country's infrastructure. All those quarter, third and half built high rises marring the BKK skyline are testament here. Yeah, I know other economic issues are partly responsible for this. But so is corruption and "person/issue specific" law enforcement. All of this is tolerable to Thais. So nothing changes.

One thing I never understand is why people don?t take responsibility when they did something wrong. for exp. If there is a sign ?no u-turn? simply enough, you don?t do it. Find the next u-turn and make many u-turns as you prefer!! If you get a fine so pay it. You did crime, stand up and accept the consequences. It shouldn't be that difficult.

Your point is fine until the cop INVENTS the infraction or crime only to extract a bribe. So now HE'S committed a crime. But he doesn't have to worry because there's no accountability. You may be less aware of this phenomenon because you're a citizen and the cops don't target Thais as much. But again it goes back to rampant, incessant and for the most part ACCEPTED corruption. Accepted because it's part of the way of life; the way things are done.

As for those people (polices, politicians, garbage men or whoever) who accepted brides are even worse. Shame on them, that?s all I can say.

That's the most anyone says. The problem is it's a pathetic response. The attitude (and the populace's general education level and standards) has to change. The laws have to be enforced EQUALLY and/or changed to reflect 21st century modernism. Otherwise the country remains backwards in many respects; I acknowledge many want it to remain as it is.

[frankenburner2]

On one hand, brides are a necessary evil in bangkok...kinda like paying your electric bill...

on the other hand, i'm sick and tired of hearing how a cop's salary is insufficient and needs topping up.....**** YOU a**hole...I AGREED TO MY SALARY WHEN I STARTED MY JOB!

[luckyphil247]

On one hand, brides are a necessary evil in bangkok...kinda like paying your electric bill...

on the other hand, i'm sick and tired of hearing how a cop's salary is insufficient and needs topping up.....f*ck YOU a**hole...I AGREED TO MY SALARY WHEN I STARTED MY JOB!

I'd pay big bucks to hear you repeat those words to a Thai cop

[luckyphil247]

But we don?t have to accept or do what we know that?s wrong or because other people do (if we all do that then we are idiots). No need any high moral minded, basically just a common sense. Cop doesn?t go around give people a fine or knock on your car and ask for a bride for no reasons. You did something wrong then they come after you.

In 2006 , I went out with some Farang friends that were also in BKK at the time . I went back to their hotel room and we kept drinking , the 2 guys had crashed after drinking so much but the 2 girls were sober as they had an early morning flight .

I had the idea of sharing a taxi with the girls , I could get dropped off at my hotel on the way to the airport . On the way , there was a road block set up by the police . The officer came towards our taxi and asked me to get out .

He asked where we were heading , and I explained that the girls were going back to Australia and I was going to my hotel room . Then he asked for my passport , and so I explained that I dont usually carry it with me , but that he could follow me back to my hotel to get it .

He said that we couldn't do that , so I had to go back with him to the police station . I really didn't want to go , but he was insisting .

Then came ....." ok you pay some money and you can go " .

I didn't offer to pay any money because I really had no idea how much I was expected to pay . Also I was a little paranoid , thinking he might charge me with bribery ( my 2nd time in Thailand ) .

I politely refused , and told him that I'd go to the poliice station if he still insisted . He asked me if I had a valid visa , and I gave him a wai while I promised that my visa was valid .

He looked at me ..... " ok you can go "

" Khop khun khrap " I replied

All the alcohol I had that night went to waste as I sobered up quick smart . Damn !!!