Do you think it help to feed elephant in sukhumvit?

[kungnoi]

I know most of foreigner come to thailand also want to see elephant. But Do you think that you feed elephant in sukumvit road is the way to help elephant? I alway anti this show. Once if you have time to think, Please think where elephant should be? Why elephant is here on the hot street, many cars? I know this is a round question never end but If you think about The demand and The supply. YOu will get the answer!! You caused elephant come to city. You didn't help them but you are the one who hurting them, supported those poor people take elephant in the city. Next time please think about this before you try to show your kindness to buy small fruit for elephant on the street. I open to everyone here. Blame me if you think i was wrong!

[Chatty]

I always respect people opinion. It hurts everytimes that I have seen the animals not be where they should be.

Elephants are a big problem in Bangkok, the problem that can't solve perfectly...

I have seen them walk on the hot street in Bangkok some elephant are babiee I never feed them...same as I don't give money to beggars, you can say i'm a mean girl, but I don't it's the right way to help, and I don't wanna support their thought...

Stopping the mahouts take their elephants to Bagkok isn't the good way to solve problem neither.

The reason that mahouts take their elephants to the big city cuz they don't know what in the DRY SEASON, no water, no food... so they bring elephants to here as beggars and amature actors. Some elephants work so hard... some of them are drug addicted... So sad to see something like this.

Elephant is the symbo of Siam, their ancestors protected our country in the war fields so many times but look what we have done to them.

For me... I think goverment should solve mahouts problem first..and deal with problem about dry season, to stop people left their home town and come to the big city.

There are laws to protect the Elephants which be used as vehicle,

I will find out about it...

[Loburt]

I understand how you feel, Kungnoi. It's a dilemma.

But I asked Soraida Salwala of the Friends of the Asian Elephant about this several years back. She is, of course, opposed to bringing elephants into the city. Nonetheless, she said give them food if you want to.

It's no use to say stop feeding them so they will go back to the countryside when they can't survive in the countryside. Most of the mahouts really don't want to be here in the first place.

There are laws against it, but how many laws are enforced in Thailand?

I asked a mahout once if he was afraid of getting arrested. He said no. "If they arrest me, they'll have to take my elephant. What are the police gonna do with an elephant?"

[kungnoi]

comeon Kung, what came first chicken or the egg?

I thought this practice was illegal?

if it isn't it should be, don't you think?

where are the laws? the police?

you can't really blame the people feeding the elephant nor the elephant owners can you, if the practice is allowed to go on contrary to laws that exist.

If indeed they do exist, and if they dont, who then is responsible.

i agree i don't think a busy, hot, polluted street is the place for an Elephant to be at any time.

I didn't blame anyone. Maybe becuase my english isn't good i can't show all what i thought but I think bCool says what i want to say.. Elephant can be in bkk if they have their own place to stay and tourist know.

[kungnoi]

I understand how you feel, Kungnoi. It's a dilemma.

But I asked Soraida Salwala of the Friends of the Asian Elephant about this several years back. She is, of course, opposed to bringing elephants into the city. Nonetheless, she said give them food if you want to.

It's no use to say stop feeding them so they will go back to the countryside when they can't survive in the countryside. Most of the mahouts really don't want to be here in the first place.

There are laws against it, but how many laws are enforced in Thailand?

I asked a mahout once if he was afraid of getting arrested. He said no. "If they arrest me, they'll have to take my elephant. What are the police gonna do with an elephant?"

If police arrest them, send them back to hometown. they will come back here aterward anyway, robert.

I know Soraida. I much respect what she does. If you count me. I am just small piece of thais in thailand. Only one thing i can do is "not supported them" if everyone stop feeding them. They won't come here. As Spirodal said. Its a chicken and egg questions. At least I know that someone understand what i feel.

[Chatty]

Hey guys this is the laws to protect the elephants... anyone can translate to English?

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Mostly about Traffic laws... wahhh

Anyway, my dream.... Thai goverment can solve "dry season" problem, to make people stay in hometown. Find the proper place for the elephants such as some national park. Is it possibly?

[kungnoi]

Hey guys this is the laws to protect the elephants... anyone can translate to English?

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Mostly about Traffic laws... wahhh

Anyway, my dream.... Thai goverment can solve "dry season" problem, to make people stay in hometown. Find the proper place for the elephants such as some national park. Is it possibly?

There are law ka P'bCool but never success. Maybe should set more raw against to people who buy food for elephant also. or I dont' know but in deep i still beleive that If no demand, no supply anyway.

The example is in phuket these day. Most of foreigner come here to enjoy the beach. They like place that they can drink , dance , enjoy looking at people. Many disco tec here in phuket is close down. Not many left at the moment. becuause Supply not match with Demand. but this take many years. I realized since i get here to be the business transfer. Before that i uses to think like thai people think. good to go dance in disco tec but Here is tourist island. I have to change the way i think to suit on my job. and I found out many thing interesting here.

[CiaranM]

I know most of foreigner come to thailand also want to see elephant. But Do you think that you feed elephant in sukumvit road is the way to help elephant? I alway anti this show. Once if you have time to think, Please think where elephant should be? Why elephant is here on the hot street, many cars? I know this is a round question never end but If you think about The demand and The supply. YOu will get the answer!! You caused elephant come to city.

You didn't help them but you are the one who hurting them, supported those poor people take elephant in the city. Next time please think about this before you try to show your kindness to buy small fruit for elephant on the street. I open to everyone here. Blame me if you think i was wrong!

BULLSHITTTTTTTTTT !!!

who brings the elephants to the cities ? Thais !!

who brings them round the city selling food for money ? Thais !!

i would say MOST farangs DO NOT want to see elephants in the city and only buy food because they feel sorry for the elephants !!

elephants in the city is a Thai problem and can ONLY be solved by Thais !!

for what might be done with the elephants !!

http://www.elephant.se/location2.php?location_id=43

[Stramash]

Have to say big no no to this. When I first moved to Samui, there used to be some young Thai guys went around all the bars in Green Mango area. Rather than elephant, one had a sea eagle (I think), one a monkey and one a huge snake. Thought this especially cruel as hundreds of noisy drunken farang crowding round them and holding for photos. Should be illegal.

Connected to this debate though I would like to ask what people think of the elephant camps??

I was told when in Chiang Mai that some camps are really bad and some are good. I did visit one where the eleaphants were not made to do any tricks (playing football etc) but instead gave working displays (moving logs, trees etc) as well as trek up to village in hills. I preferred this to the idea of the heffalumps doing tricks as it was more natural for them, but what do other TF'ers think?? :twisted:

[Chatty]

I know most of foreigner come to thailand also want to see elephant. But Do you think that you feed elephant in sukumvit road is the way to help elephant? I alway anti this show. Once if you have time to think, Please think where elephant should be? Why elephant is here on the hot street, many cars? I know this is a round question never end but If you think about The demand and The supply. YOu will get the answer!! You caused elephant come to city.

You didn't help them but you are the one who hurting them, supported those poor people take elephant in the city. Next time please think about this before you try to show your kindness to buy small fruit for elephant on the street. I open to everyone here. Blame me if you think i was wrong!

BULLSHITTTTTTTTTT !!!

who brings the elephants to the cities ? Thais !!

who brings them round the city selling food for money ? Thais !!

i would say MOST farangs DO NOT want to see elephants in the city and only buy food because they feel sorry for the elephants !!

elephants in the city is a Thai problem and can ONLY be solved by Thais !!

for what might be done with the elephants !!

http://www.elephant.se/location2.php?location_id=43

I think I know what Kungnoi idea.... Hope i'm right.

Have you ever heard about B.F. Skinner "Reinforcement Theory" If not, you can read it from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement this is just short one.... I study his thoery, a lot more

Anyway, from what I read Kungnoi posted... I think what she wants people do called negative reinforcement which is "Taking away" what the mohouts want which is MONEY.

So when they can't make money, they would change their behavior such as change the method.. they might bring their elephants to do something else better then being beggars in the big cities.

[BangkokBilly]

I often have an evening meal at the restaurant on Sukhumvit Soi errrr... 14? Saa Tay.

They ALWAYS bring the elephants there and many of the tourists jump up to take photos. Most think it is fun.

I think they don't think behind the surface appearances. Like how does an elephant cross the Asoke intersection (it's bad enough for normal humans, let alone an elephant with a red light on its bum.)

Some don't think. Some don't care even if they did think.

I get annoyed with it myself, but keep quiet. I've seen the mahouts get pretty aggresive with some people.

[Loburt]

Anyway, from what I read Kungnoi posted... I think what she wants people do called negative reinforcement which is "Taking away" what the mohouts want which is MONEY.

So when they can't make money, they would change their behavior such as change the method.. they might bring their elephants to do something else better then being beggars in the big cities.

I think you are so wrong about this, bcool. And frankly, I'd really like you to think about what you're saying, because it's typical of how middle-class city Thais look at their cousins from the countryside. And it's a big reason why this country is so divided. I've heard this same thing from other office workers and even police guarding protesters from the Assembly of the Poor:

ALL THEY WANT IS MONEY!

Do you really think these mahouts are making a lot of money selling sugar cane to tourists to feed their elephants? Have you seen where they sleep?

The mahouts are here in Bangkok because they can't make enough upcountry to feed their elephants. And if they can't feed their elephants, the elephants will die.

There is very little forest left in Thailand where elephants can roam and eat enough to survive. And elephants need to eat a tremendous amount of vegetation very day just to survive.

There used to be 100,000 wild elephants in Thailand in 1900. Now there are less than 4,000.

There are so few because there are no more forests. And what happened to the forests?

A lot of them were cut down so the timber could be sold. Who did it? Wealthy businessmen, often from Bangkok. The man living across the street from me with the beautiful house and tens of millions of dollars in the bank made it all from logging!

They didn't care about the elephants, or the environment, or the people who need the forest to survive.

So your cousins from the country could easily say about you here in Bangkok:

ALL THEY WANT IS MONEY.

So what other jobs are you suggesting the mahouts take their elephants to do? Perform in the circus? Or work in the illegal logging trade where they are force fed amphetamines and work until they die of exhaustion?

You blame the people from the countryside, but you don't have any solution for them as to how they should survive when they go back home.

You say "take away their money." But what is your solution for them?

Think about what you're saying when you blame these people and call them greedy.

Is it consistent with what the person you revere most in this country teaches you?

And as for you, Kungnoi, if you think falangs are mostly to blame for the problems of Thai elephants and their mahouts, you really need to pull your head out of your ass.

Falangs didn't cut down your forests and create this mess. Thais did.

Wake up!

[kungnoi]

I know most of foreigner come to thailand also want to see elephant. But Do you think that you feed elephant in sukumvit road is the way to help elephant? I alway anti this show. Once if you have time to think, Please think where elephant should be? Why elephant is here on the hot street, many cars? I know this is a round question never end but If you think about The demand and The supply. YOu will get the answer!! You caused elephant come to city.

You didn't help them but you are the one who hurting them, supported those poor people take elephant in the city. Next time please think about this before you try to show your kindness to buy small fruit for elephant on the street. I open to everyone here. Blame me if you think i was wrong!

BULLSHITTTTTTTTTT !!!

who brings the elephants to the cities ? Thais !!

who brings them round the city selling food for money ? Thais !!

i would say MOST farangs DO NOT want to see elephants in the city and only buy food because they feel sorry for the elephants !!

Yeah! I didn't say thais are good and I didnt' say all foreigner are bad either. but Only you buy food becuase you feel sorry..that's the starting of this f**k loop

[kungnoi]

I know most of foreigner come to thailand also want to see elephant. But Do you think that you feed elephant in sukumvit road is the way to help elephant? I alway anti this show. Once if you have time to think, Please think where elephant should be? Why elephant is here on the hot street, many cars? I know this is a round question never end but If you think about The demand and The supply. YOu will get the answer!! You caused elephant come to city. You didn't help them but you are the one who hurting them, supported those poor people take elephant in the city. Next time please think about this before you try to show your kindness to buy small fruit for elephant on the street. I open to everyone here. Blame me if you think i was wrong!

I don't believe most foreigner what to see elephant on the street, Nong Kung. either they want to see any kind of animal show, really. It's animal abuse.

I used to think that way also..the demand & supply thing. But that isn't always true. The problem can slove if the government pay more attention to the poors. Give them education and decent works in their hometown then they don't need to come to BKK to work. But we have "Samak" as the PM. :roll: .what can I say?

No one want to see elephant on the street ka. I know but my point isn't "the elephant on the street" My point is why they are on the street. Maybe i should go back to english school or discuss it in thai. so, i can explain what i think more.

Demand and Supply can adapt on everything that what i believe and i proved it myself. We can compare the elephant case to Prostitue case as well. Maybe can see move view.

[Loburt]

Yeah! I didn't say thais are good and I didnt' say all foreigner are bad either. but Only you buy food becuase you feel sorry..that's the starting of this f**k loop

No, it's not the start of the f*cking loop, Kungnoi. It's the END of the loop.

The loop began with Thais cutting down all their forests and destroying the elephants' habitat.

It continues with Thai farmers shooting and poisoning hungry elephants that eat their crops because there is no forest left.

The loop goes on with rich Thais running the illegal logging business where they force feed elephants "yaa baa" and work them to death.

It goes on with wealthy Thais who buy up the elephants and pay mahouts to bring them to the city.

It continues with Thais in Bangkok who pay the mahouts to crawl under the elephants belly for good luck!

And on and on....

The falangs are the least of the problem.

You really need to learn more and think about what you're saying.

[kungnoi]

I know most of foreigner come to thailand also want to see elephant. But Do you think that you feed elephant in sukumvit road is the way to help elephant? I alway anti this show. Once if you have time to think, Please think where elephant should be? Why elephant is here on the hot street, many cars? I know this is a round question never end but If you think about The demand and The supply. YOu will get the answer!! You caused elephant come to city.

You didn't help them but you are the one who hurting them, supported those poor people take elephant in the city. Next time please think about this before you try to show your kindness to buy small fruit for elephant on the street. I open to everyone here. Blame me if you think i was wrong!

BULLSHITTTTTTTTTT !!!

who brings the elephants to the cities ? Thais !!

who brings them round the city selling food for money ? Thais !!

i would say MOST farangs DO NOT want to see elephants in the city and only buy food because they feel sorry for the elephants !!

elephants in the city is a Thai problem and can ONLY be solved by Thais !!

for what might be done with the elephants !!

http://www.elephant.se/location2.php?location_id=43

I think I know what Kungnoi idea.... Hope i'm right.

Have you ever heard about B.F. Skinner "Reinforcement Theory" If not, you can read it from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement this is just short one.... I study his thoery, a lot more

Anyway, from what I read Kungnoi posted... I think what she wants people do called negative reinforcement which is "Taking away" what the mohouts want which is MONEY.

So when they can't make money, they would change their behavior such as change the method.. they might bring their elephants to do something else better then being beggars in the big cities.

Right! bCool. thank you. Something Law not work.

[kungnoi]

Anyway, from what I read Kungnoi posted... I think what she wants people do called negative reinforcement which is "Taking away" what the mohouts want which is MONEY.

So when they can't make money, they would change their behavior such as change the method.. they might bring their elephants to do something else better then being beggars in the big cities.

I think you are so wrong about this, bcool. And frankly, I'd really like you to think about what you're saying, because it's typical of how middle-class city Thais look at their cousins from the countryside. And it's a big reason why this country is so divided. I've heard this same thing from other office workers and even police guarding protesters from the Assembly of the Poor:

ALL THEY WANT IS MONEY!

Do you really think these mahouts are making a lot of money selling sugar cane to tourists to feed their elephants? Have you seen where they sleep?

The mahouts are here in Bangkok because they can't make enough upcountry to feed their elephants. And if they can't feed their elephants, the elephants will die.

There is very little forest left in Thailand where elephants can roam and eat enough to survive. And elephants need to eat a tremendous amount of vegetation very day just to survive.

There used to be 100,000 wild elephants in Thailand in 1900. Now there are less than 4,000.

There are so few because there are no more forests. And what happened to the forests?

A lot of them were cut down so the timber could be sold. Who did it? Wealthy businessmen, often from Bangkok. The man living across the street from me with the beautiful house and tens of millions of dollars in the bank made it all from logging!

They didn't care about the elephants, or the environment, or the people who need the forest to survive.

So your cousins from the country could easily say about you here in Bangkok:

ALL THEY WANT IS MONEY.

So what other jobs are you suggesting the mahouts take their elephants to do? Perform in the circus? Or work in the illegal logging trade where they are force fed amphetamines and work until they die of exhaustion?

You blame the people from the countryside, but you don't have any solution for them as to how they should survive when they go back home.

You say "take away their money." But what is your solution for them?

Think about what you're saying when you blame these people and call them greedy.

Is it consistent with what the person you revere most in this country teaches you?

And as for you, Kungnoi, if you think falangs are mostly to blame for the problems of Thai elephants and their mahouts, you really need to pull your head out of your ass.

Falangs didn't cut down your forests and create this mess. Thais did.

Wake up!

Well if you said like this. Its like you said bar girls in bar has to come to bkk sell sex becuase they have no way to make money in their hometown!!!! damn!! That's only 0.00001% of them.

I would like to say that Not only foreigner is a main reason of this loop. I saw some thais did as well. Lets think about begger all the street. some of them have two legs two arms.!!! Dont' talk to me about the chance!! Helpless.

I will put my head out of my ass if someone here can enlighten me!

[CiaranM]

I know most of foreigner come to thailand also want to see elephant. But Do you think that you feed elephant in sukumvit road is the way to help elephant? I alway anti this show. Once if you have time to think, Please think where elephant should be? Why elephant is here on the hot street, many cars? I know this is a round question never end but If you think about The demand and The supply. YOu will get the answer!! You caused elephant come to city.

You didn't help them but you are the one who hurting them, supported those poor people take elephant in the city. Next time please think about this before you try to show your kindness to buy small fruit for elephant on the street. I open to everyone here. Blame me if you think i was wrong!

BULLSHITTTTTTTTTT !!!

who brings the elephants to the cities ? Thais !!

who brings them round the city selling food for money ? Thais !!

i would say MOST farangs DO NOT want to see elephants in the city and only buy food because they feel sorry for the elephants !!

Yeah! I didn't say thais are good and I didnt' say all foreigner are bad either. but Only you buy food becuase you feel sorry..that's the starting of this f**k loop

more F**KING BULLSHITTTTTT !!

as loburt says it's NOT the start of the f**king loup it's the end of it .... if thais didn't bring the elephants into the cities ppl wouldn't be giving them any f**king money !!! typical BULLSHITTTT .... ah look at those poor elephants but it's not the fault of the thais .... it's all those bad farangs giving money to the mahouts !!

just as an aside .... i used to live on rampkhamhang .... used to eat out at night near town in town .... guess what ...

elephants there ...

ppl giving money ....

no farangs giving money ....

so who's f**king fault is that ????

[kungnoi]

Yeah! I didn't say thais are good and I didnt' say all foreigner are bad either. but Only you buy food becuase you feel sorry..that's the starting of this f**k loop

No, it's not the start of the f*cking loop, Kungnoi. It's the END of the loop.

The loop began with Thais cutting down all their forests and destroying the elephants' habitat.

It continues with Thai farmers shooting and poisoning hungry elephants that eat their crops because there is no forest left.

The loop goes on with rich Thais running the illegal logging business where they force feed elephants "yaa baa" and work them to death.

It goes on with wealthy Thais who buy up the elephants and pay mahouts to bring them to the city.

It continues with Thais in Bangkok who pay the mahouts to crawl under the elephants belly for good luck!

And on and on....

The falangs are the least of the problem.

You really need to learn more and think about what you're saying.

lol now my post become "egg and chicken" lol

[Loburt]

I will put my head out of my ass if someone here can enlighten me!

No you won't Kungnoi, because it's been explained to you already and you don't listen.

You have none of the compassion your country's highest authority urges you to have.

You won't pull your head out of your ass because then you would see how bigoted and hateful and prejudiced you really are - against your own countrymen.

You have no answers for these people or the elephants.

You just don't want to have to see them begging because it bothers you. But it doesn't bother you enough to do anything to help these people and their animals.

You just want them out of your sight.

[kungnoi]

I know most of foreigner come to thailand also want to see elephant. But Do you think that you feed elephant in sukumvit road is the way to help elephant? I alway anti this show. Once if you have time to think, Please think where elephant should be? Why elephant is here on the hot street, many cars? I know this is a round question never end but If you think about The demand and The supply. YOu will get the answer!! You caused elephant come to city.

You didn't help them but you are the one who hurting them, supported those poor people take elephant in the city. Next time please think about this before you try to show your kindness to buy small fruit for elephant on the street. I open to everyone here. Blame me if you think i was wrong!

BULLSHITTTTTTTTTT !!!

who brings the elephants to the cities ? Thais !!

who brings them round the city selling food for money ? Thais !!

i would say MOST farangs DO NOT want to see elephants in the city and only buy food because they feel sorry for the elephants !!

Yeah! I didn't say thais are good and I didnt' say all foreigner are bad either. but Only you buy food becuase you feel sorry..that's the starting of this f**k loop

more F**KING BULLSHITTTTTT !!

as loburt says it's NOT the start of the f**king loup it's the end of it .... if thais didn't bring the elephants into the cities ppl wouldn't be giving them any f**king money !!! typical BULLSHITTTT .... ah look at those poor elephants but it's not the fault of the thais .... it's all those bad farangs giving money to the mahouts !!

just as an aside .... i used to live on rampkhamhang .... used to eat out at night near town in town .... guess what ...

elephants there ...

ppl giving money ....

no farangs giving money ....

so who's f**king fault is that ????

Ok..I was wrong. I should said everyone every nationality every single person who buy the food for elephant on the street..right?

[Loburt]

WRONG.

Because the people buying the food and feeding them are NOT the source of the problem.

[kungnoi]

I will put my head out of my ass if someone here can enlighten me!

No you won't Kungnoi, because it's been explained to you already and you don't listen.

You have none of the compassion your country's highest authority urges you to have.

You won't pull your head out of your ass because then you would see how bigoted and hateful and prejudiced you really are - against your own countrymen.

You have no answers for these people or the elephants.

You just don't want to have to see them begging because it bothers you. But it doesn't bother you enough to do anything to help these people and their animals.

You just want them out of your sight.

Khun Loburt.

The solution is already there. with our majestic method. If there is no forest for them to stay or no job for them to pull the wood. Let's think what elephant eat? What they have in the country side? In the rice field? Bananas trees etc. enough for elephant if you have elephant only one per family which it should be that way. and If they keep use their country life. I think they will survive like most of them that still stay in country side. I know its hard but Once if you was born in the family that you have this elephant from your grand. You should proud. I didn't say that they come here becuase they think they can be rich. but It just easy way to make money. I know where they stayed. I didn't close my eyes when i walked pass under the bridge or empty space. Maybe i should close my eyes..

I didn't only want to push it out of my sight. It just really hurt me and I can do nothing.

[Loburt]

Elephants don't live on rice. Or just banana trees. They need hundreds of pounds of vegetation each day.

If people followed HM's advice there would still be enough forests for the elephants.

Who didn't follow that advice? The wealthy of Bangkok.

It's not true that there is NOTHING you can do.

You can give me money or volunteer your time with any one of several groups, from the Friends of the Asian Elephant to the World Wildlife Fund or WildAid.

Fixing the problem is hard. Blaming the poor is easy.

[kungnoi]

Elephants don't live on rice. Or just banana trees. They need hundreds of pounds of vegetation each day.

If people followed HM's advice there would still be enough forests for the elephants.

Who didn't follow that advice? The wealthy of Bangkok.

It's not true that there is NOTHING you can do.

You can give me money or volunteer your time with any one of several groups, from the Friends of the Asian Elephant to the World Wildlife Fund or WildAid.

Fixing the problem is hard. Blaming the poor is easy.

I don't give any baht to anyone beside that i still dont' have enough baht for myself. I have plan to be step mother of the baby elephant long time already but I have to be able to do it before i make it.

I thought elephant on the street eat bananas!!!!!!!! or cucumbers??? which very expensive then in villa market!!!