imback Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 What do you think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin_2 Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 How do you think ? Basically...It's very comparable to the game of poker, which most would consider a gambling game. You weigh odds, look at risk over reward, and basically just study stats to try and make the best decision possible each and every time...then sit back and hope the numbers work themselves out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Anything with risk is a gamble. Oh, and its all going to crash again, don't get caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imback Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Anything with risk is a gamble. So If we buy mutual fund, is that call gamble ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Anything with risk is a gamble. So If we buy mutual fund, is that call gamble ? Yep, because it might be miss managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imback Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Anything with risk is a gamble. So If we buy mutual fund, is that call gamble ? Yep, because it might be miss managed. How different of Investment and gamble ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlic Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 much less of a gamble once you gain experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English_George Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 much less of a gamble once you gain experience... ....just like two of the more popular pursuits on TF. ...finding a partner and cross-dressing ...as many will confirm ..79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Anything with risk is a gamble. So If we buy mutual fund, is that call gamble ? Yep, because it might be miss managed. How different of Investment and gamble ? An investment in anything thats not fixed or guaranteed is a gamble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlic Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 much less of a gamble once you gain experience... ....just like two of the more popular pursuits on TF. ...finding a partner and cross-dressing ...as many will confirm ..79 a cross-dressing partner the same size would be great...big savings on the clothing bill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imback Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Anything with risk is a gamble. So If we buy mutual fund, is that call gamble ? Yep, because it might be miss managed. How different of Investment and gamble ? An investment in anything thats not fixed or guaranteed is a gamble? Actually, investment is nearby gamble BUT both of them are different...gamble depends on your lucky, no need to consider about fundamental, technical...investment based on information for decision making...investment would be gamble if do it without knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English_George Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 a cross-dressing partner the same size ...Size? ....That's the last thing you would be thinking on your first time out in high heels .....How do you know so much? ...I know you are a man...and you have a picture of a woman...and you are commenting on a topic made by another man wearing a wedding dress (photoshopically).....which makes it worse ..Have I stumbled into the wrong place? ...I feel like a straight tourist walking into a gay massage parlor and asking for an ice cream ..79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imback Posted October 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Anything with risk is a gamble. So If we buy mutual fund, is that call gamble ? Yep, because it might be miss managed. How different of Investment and gamble ? An investment in anything thats not fixed or guaranteed is a gamble? Actually, investment is nearby gamble BUT both of them are different...gamble depends on your lucky, no need to consider about fundamental, technical...investment based on information for decision making...investment would be gamble if do it without knowledge. fark offffff...I forgot to type " just my opinion " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlic Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 a cross-dressing partner the same size ...Size? ....That's the last thing you would be thinking on your first time out in high heels .....How do you know so much? ...I know you are a man...and you have a picture of a woman...and you are commenting on a topic made by another man wearing a wedding dress (photoshopically).....which makes it worse ..Have I stumbled into the wrong place? ...I feel like a straight tourist walking into a gay massage parlor and asking for an ice cream ..79 >>>..Have I stumbled into the wrong place?<<< no...you're on tf...where anything can happen...(and probably does) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin_2 Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Anything with risk is a gamble. So If we buy mutual fund, is that call gamble ? Yep, because it might be miss managed. How different of Investment and gamble ? An investment in anything thats not fixed or guaranteed is a gamble? Actually, investment is nearby gamble BUT both of them are different...gamble depends on your lucky, no need to consider about fundamental, technical...investment based on information for decision making...investment would be gamble if do it without knowledge. I see what you mean, but I highly disagree. In poker you use the same fundamentals as you do with day trading. Important factors are: Understanding odds Bankroll management Emotional discipline Capital preservation In both systems you are given a heap of information from which you have to sort through and execute the best plan. If I'm only a 20% chance to win and someone gives me 6 to 1 odds on a bet, I'll take that gamble 10,000 times and come out ahead. That goes for both poker and day trading. But if you're talking about dice games and/or black jack then your point is a bit more valid since the player has much less info to work with and those are losing games (games against the odds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin_2 Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Some informative, though basic excerpts from the market stock watch blog on some similarities between poker and trading: http://marketstockwatch.blogspot.com/2005/07/poker-and-stock-market.html Here is where it gets interesting; if I have a decent hand, I can decide to call the larger blind and see the next three cards on the flop, which is still a low risk investment. If the flop doesn?t provide me with the cards I need, I can immediately cut my losses short by folding and wait for the next game. The same is true in investing; I can cut a loss short and wait for the next opportunity without risking the farm if I realize an immediate loss. If the cards are good and my probabilities of winning the hand are high, I can call the bet or raise the bet. A fourth and fifth card (the turn and the river) are placed on the table after the flop and betting continues with each round. Again, I can decide if I would like to call, raise or cut my losses short. The connection I am trying to make with investing in the stock market and playing poker relates directly to cutting losses short (capital preservation and money management) and my odds of winning the game (in the stock market this could be called expectancy). .... All investors and poker players bring emotions to the table, some people control them better while other people employ better systems and understand the odds on a higher level. The bottom line is to understand the situation around you and to use a sound system to raise your odds. Never bet a hand that represents a low chance of winning and never ride a loss that could multiply overnight. Cut losses short and get out of the game and wait for the next opportunity because they are always around the corner. **But never gamble in Thailand...it's quite illegal!** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbkbkk Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 How do you think ? Basically...It's very comparable to the game of poker, which most would consider a gambling game. You weigh odds, look at risk over reward, and basically just study stats to try and make the best decision possible each and every time...then sit back and hope the numbers work themselves out. two words. BAD BEAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie36 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 How different of Investment and gamble ? Peter Lynch, one of the top 20 most successful investors over the past 30 years says this: Often, there is no correlation between the success of a company's operations and the success of its stock over a few months or even a few years. In the long term, there is a 100 percent correlation between the success of the company and the success of its stock. This disparity is the key to making money; it pays to be patient, and to own successful companies So to me, if you are day trading, you are gambling because it is virtually impossible to predict short term gains. (The average brokerage account in the US closes with a loss of US$13,000.) If, however, you buy a company below book and on a PE of 4x, then you will be incredibly unlucky to lose money (unless you have misjudged the fundamentals) and you are patient to see your returns. That, to me, is the difference between gambling and investment. And while day traders claim great returns (sometimes), bear in mind that virtually everyone of the top investors over the last 30 years, has been long term value investors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin_2 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 How do you think ? Basically...It's very comparable to the game of poker, which most would consider a gambling game. You weigh odds, look at risk over reward, and basically just study stats to try and make the best decision possible each and every time...then sit back and hope the numbers work themselves out. two words. BAD BEAT I've handed out a few of those recently. Twice in one day actually...I was a 4% dog and hit my two outer on the river. *fist pump* I much prefer being on this side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie36 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 An investment in anything thats not fixed or guaranteed is a gamble? To me if a return is fixed or guaranteed it is effectively a deposit.In fact I do not even consider putting money on deposit at 2% at the bank an investment. Investment is all to do with calculated risk and return. Obviously the return must be expected to be substantially larger than a risk free asset (bank deposit), so you attach a significant risk premium - say 6-20% per annum over deposit rates. I do not regard investing in say a business as speculation (in general) (maybe a restaurant in Bangkok.) Admittedly there has to be a degree of 'speculation' because returns are not guaranteed. My point being say you buy a stock on a P/E of 4x - equivalent to an earnings yield of 25%. The lack of guarantee assuming it is doing something vaguely sensible makes it a better 'investment' than a guaranteed return of 2%. Then have 5 of those stocks to spread risk and the 'investment' argument is compelling. Ultimately, as far as I can see, pure speculation is simply the 'hope' of making a profit. Day trading for instance or a casino. Anyway I dont like the idea of putting your money on deposit at 2% and calling it an 'investment'. Prudent, silly maybe.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Anyway I dont like the idea of putting your money on deposit at 2% and calling it an 'investment'. Prudent, silly maybe.... How about at 6% 'back in the day'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie36 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Anyway I dont like the idea of putting your money on deposit at 2% and calling it an 'investment'. Prudent, silly maybe.... How about at 6% 'back in the day'? Actually that is a tricky one. 1. To me if you say bought a stock that you expected to double in a year, a 6% rise on the day you bought it is meaningless because you wouldnt sell. It would be an investment 2. The day trader who makes 6% in a day is simply a speculator. And will probably lose it tomorrow. If he makes 6% everyday he is God and definitely one of your best friends. 3. If you say had a painting that you intended to sell for double that would be an investment and making 6% on it in the first day - well its up to you whether you sell it. You might be able to flip it and get another the next day. 4. Of course if you are lending money to someone at 6% a day that is very highly speculative. Afterall the dollar he borrowed he will have to repay about 1 billion times after a year. Chances are you wont even see the guy again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie36 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Anything with risk is a gamble. So If we buy mutual fund, is that call gamble ? Yep, because it might be miss managed. It is possible it might get mismanaged although sometimes it might be hard to tell. From my inbox today. Some quotes from a recent one... "Suppose the mind consciousness is observing an elephant walking. During the time of observation, the object of mind consciousness may not be the elephant in and of itself. It may only be a mental construction of the elephant based on previous images of elephants that have been imprinted in store consciousness. EDIT: It goes on like this so you can stop there if you like. "Inquiry means not using the mental creation, but allowing yourself to get in touch, and to try to see how things truly are. We practice not to be influenced by the name, because when we are caught in the name we can't see reality." A novice monk approaches his teacher and asks, "Is this a bull market or a bear market?" The teacher replies, "If it is a warm day, and I say that it is winter, will you still wear your heaviest coat?" Edit: Do monks really do that? "This is, because that is. This is not, because that is not." Edit: I this point I would like to make it clear that I do not pay for this newsletter. "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" BTW there is interpretation of these sayings. Our immediate impulse is to think, of course it makes a sound. But look more carefully. If a tree falls, it certainly will make the air move, but what is sound? "If a share of stock is sold in a forest, and nobody is around to buy it, does it still generate a fill?" This Zen stuff is tricky - I mean if there was noone to buy it, how did he sell? A novice monk approaches his teacher and asks "What is the price movement of one share being bought?" The teacher holds out a cypress leaf in his palm and asks, "Did I catch the leaf as it fell from the tree, or did I raise it from the ground?" Whatever those two are on, I want some. Conclusion "If you touch one thing with deep awareness, you touch everything." Now apparently this led to a moment of enlightenment for this fund manager... One of the most useful ways of interpreting price and volume behavior is this: if something makes a given trader want to buy, the price must move in a way that either removes that impulse or induces another trader to sell. There is no other option. Translated this means for every buyer there must be a seller... We can talk about differences in eagerness or in pressure as moving stock prices. But we cannot talk about money going in or money going out. We cannot talk about supply being greater than demand or vice versa. In equilibrium, the two must be equal. Translated this means for every buyer there must be a seller. Probably gets US$50m for that. Anyway I think he will be right about the market over the next 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJTX Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 What do you think ? Day trading is more speculation than investing. A day trader buys and sells the same stock the same day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin_2 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 They also both teach to let go of something that WAS good. All your research can tell you that stock "A" is low and its a great buy, but if you learn that its going to tank, you have to cut your losses! If you get dealt two red Aces and the flop comes 789 of spades with 3 other people pushing all their money in, you have to cut your losses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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