Making The Grade in Thailand

[admin]

Want a bachelor's degree? One can be had for between 37,000 to 90,000 baht, depending on the institution. There's a service that will hack into a university's computer, insert your name on a degree and voila, you can even join the graduation ceremony.

Want a 3.5 GPA? No problem. A hacker can arrange it. Want to be on the honour roll? Just pay a little more.

In fact, your kids can even obtain a primary school certificate; that's only 5,000 to 8,000 baht.

Too dumb to do an MBA thesis? No problem. For anywhere between 120,000 and 280,000 baht, someone will write one for you.

I thought it was an advertisement but it turned out to be an OpEd piece by that troublemaker Voranai Vanijaka

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/214089/bought-grades-sold-souls-an-all-access-pass-through-the-halls-of-higher-learning/

[admin]

This isn't exactly a new concept either.

This has been around since teh 1940's or 1950's

[CiaranM]

This isn't exactly a new concept either.

This has been around since teh 1940's or 1950's

and the general concept/idea has probably been around for centuries .... but what percentage of the population in a 3rd world or developing country will ever reach the top 2 levels of the pyramid !!!

[LakeGeneve]

I can easily get the same info. by sitting in a pup anywhere,

NO to animal cruelty... :twisted:

Must be a big pup!

[pandorea]

I can easily get the same info. by sitting in a pup anywhere,

NO to animal cruelty... :twisted:

Must be a big pup!

I'm glad that at least 2 read my post. (yes, it's a big pup!!) :x

[SoBeIt]

This isn't exactly a new concept either.

This has been around since teh 1940's or 1950's

Yeah, that's right.. Maslow's Hierarachy of Needs.

Totally forgot about that, well so that's explain alot why Thai society is like it is.

When whoring oneself is something we shouldnt be ashame of.

And bribe is everywhere.. money can buy almost everything.

Sad but true.

[admin]

Nicky, I think you bring up a lot of very interesting points and questions.

But going back to your farang barstool philosophers, the thing that I do like about reading Voranai is that unlike most drunken bar patrons, Voranai actually seems to know what he's talking about. Since he's Thai he understands the cultural aspects which is often missing or overly simplistic in the musings of barstool philosophers.

But I bag to the differ.

Most Farang have been discussing about Thailand more or less the same problems as he wrote. The different is he is Thai and he says it out loud (or it’s his job he gets pay to write? Correct me if I’m wrong). It’s very common that we tend to give credit to anyone who speaks about his/her own country’s problems. We enjoy listening to negative than positive things. Voranai did a good job on provoking people. I hope Bangkok post pays him good money.

I agree on a certain level but I don't think he is liked because he writes negative things about Thailand. It's that he's one of the only people who will openly discuss negative things about Thailand in English.

This is one of the issues I think farangs and Thai disconnect on. We're used to openly discussing our own problems. Ask any farang on here to slag off their own country and you'll get pages of ranting and raving about their homes. But Thai people have a hard time admitting anything negative about their country.

It's not that he's talking negative about Thailand. It's that he's one of the only people who actually acknowledges what everyone already knows but few Thais will ever discuss with us farangs (or even amongst themselves sometimes).

It's easy for someone to say that the educational system in Thailand isn't very good or that corruption is impacting Thailand's competitiveness internationally. That's what you can get from your typical bar patron. I don't quote his articles here for pointing out the obvious. I quote them because Voranai tends to dig a little deeper than the surface issue and recognize it as a symptom of other problems. .

I don’t disagree with him on his “bough grades…” article but he should also mention that it’s also important in Thailand which university or which kind of education you got, not just any kind of paper will guarantee you a good job/career or being accept. Most companies or business owners in Thailand are not that stupid.

Thai people who went to decent schools/universities tend to stick together. We know who is who, if I may say. So a consequence is, if anyone bough a degree, and if we know we do tell and you know Thai people gossips A LOT!..and here the losing face thing in Thailand can be useful.

I don’t know how deep he dig , but I think he just says what most farang like to hear. If I want to be recognize positively by most farang in Thailand, I will do the same.

But the article really wasn't about purchased grades. When you get to the heart of what he was actually talking about what he was discussing was a fundamental lack of ethics being taught to children. He's saying that here is a problem, purchasing degrees, but when you look at why the problem exists it's because the entire system doesn't care about how you get what you have as long as you have it. That's why he brought up the points about the wide acceptance of corruption. That's also the point he was trying to make about the furor over some hi-so girl killing a bunch of people in a mini-bus.

It's the same fundamental problem. You can't stop the purchasing of grades until enough people stand together and declare that it's unacceptable. But as long as 76.1% of Thai people think that corruption is okay as long as they're benefitting from it that simply is not going to happen.

That's why he was saying that instead of pointing fingers and saying that you aren't part of the problem, every time you accept corruption without saying something you are helping promote it.

For us farangs it can often be frustrating trying to understand these issues because when we ask, when we probe, we're told "it's the Thai way" or "you can't understand". In some cases our questions generate defensive outbursts of Thai nationalism (often having nothing to do with the topic we're discussing - uh, and why is Thailand never being colonized relevant in this discussion about Bangkok traffic?). So, by virtue of people being unwilling or incapable of discussing various topics with us we not only fail to understand them but we also fill that knowledge vacuum with our own theories which may or may not be correct. .

Now that I agree with you and believe me, not only farangs get frustrate with “Thai’s way” thing some Thais feel the same. (and what’s wrong of being nationalism? I live in one of the most nationalism country, maybe that’s the reason I can’t see anything wrong in it).

There's nothing wrong with patriotism. There's a hell of a lot wrong with nationalism.

Being patriotic means that you stand up for your national anthem, take pride in the accomplishments of your country, and feel a sense of duty to make your country better.

Nationalism is like racism. It's a belief system based in ignorance. It's dangerous because it relies on irrational beliefs and a willingness to completely ignore any facts that don't support it.

For instance, I consider myself patriotic. I volunteered to serve in the US Army and I take great pride in being American. However, I can freely discuss both the good and the bad that my country has done, faults in our culture, and even recognize the superior qualities in other cultures.

Now compare that to . . ahem, someone who recently declared that Thai culture was the best culture in the world, despite not having very many stamps (if any) in her passport. It would be impossible to have a rational, intelligent conversation with a person like that because in their mind there is not even a question of the superiority of their culture over yours. They aren't open to different points of view because those other points of view might conflict with their dogmatic belief in their own superiority.

Or to put it another way, patriotism is, "Well, I disagree with how you view my country and allow me to explain why," and nationalism is "If you don't like it, get the f*ck out."

What I find a little bit conflicting in what you say is that you seem to indicate that he's saying nothing new but then offer that if he wants to solve the problems then he should be writing for a Thai audience. That would imply that what he's saying in English is not what regularly appears in Thai language news and that Thais would, generally, benefit from his insights. .

Sorry I didn’t make it clear enough, pardon my Danish.

There were many decent Thai writers wrote about problems in Thailand in Thai, from Jitt Bhumisak, Nai Pee, Prapatsorn Srivikul, Newarat Phongphiboon, Niwaith Kanthairath and so on. I believe he likes reading. He must have read few books of those writers, or perhaps got some ideas from them.

Many people on the Bangkok Post ask the same sorts of questions. Some have suggested that he run for office and try to change things. Some suggest that he start a political party or some sort. Why doesn't he do any of those things? No idea.

In fact I don’t care much about Voranai. I don’t know him and to me he’s a journalist. He mentioned “I recently finished my first semester of lecturing at a university.” So he must work at a university somewhere, hopefully a decent one.

According to an Abac poll, 76.1% of Thais believe that corruption is OK, as long as the country prospers

That’s a shocking statistic and kind of sad. I hope he says something about that during his lecturing, I hope he tries to tell his students about how wrong the corruption is, not just write about it on Bangkok post (which is more than 70% of the readers are farangs).

Well, that is why some of us like Voranai. He does say this. Often to people uncomfortable with hearing it. He spoke at a reconciliation luncheon (after the red shirt protests) at which the PM was attending and he scrapped his prepared speech and talked to the audience about the fact that the man who served him his meal had to lower himself and present the food like a servant because of the high ranking people he was seated with. He told the audience that as long as people are forced to lower themselves to others here in Thailand that there will never be equality or real reconciliation.

I'm sure that rumpled a few feathers.

[pandorea]

This isn't exactly a new concept either.

This has been around since teh 1940's or 1950's

Here we go again, Maslow thingie. Let's hope PiAnt doesn't see this. Last time he heard PeeMarc and I talked about it (over a year ago or so), PiAnt wasn't happy.

will reply your post later Bill, it's Saturday and I need some drinks

[Stramash]

Maslow may have been around for over 60 years but it is still one of the foundations of social work/social care in the Western world...