CocoaBrotha Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 I just finished watching a documentary on ESPN Sportcenter today and yesterday about racism in Soccer. That was nuts! It's unbelievable that people are allowed to act like that during a match! And also others in the stadium let them do it! I'm trying to find a link to the story, but they had clips of people throwing bananas onto the field to taunt the black players. They would hold up Nazi banners and chant references about them working for "bananas and peanuts". Once segment on the coach of the French National team making racist remarks about Thierry Henry (but caught on film), basically calling him a "black piece of ****". They even had a clip of Paolo Di Canio giving the Nazi Salute while ON the field!. Man, somehwere along the line tis has gotta end. Now, granted I don't watch that much soccer, but there's no place for racism ANYWHERE. Depressing and downright f**ked up. :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 hi derwin, i don't believe football (soccer for u americans) has any more of a problem with racism than society in general. the incidents u r talking about occured in spain and italy and there racism appears to be tolerated. the fines handed out for what had happened were pathetic and would act as absolutely no deterrent to prevent the same thing happening again. the crazy thing about the monkey chants and banana stuff is that the fans indulging in this **** will cheer on their own black players, guess it shows the intelligence of the pricks involved.i guess these guys would behave the same way in the street, in a restaurant and more especially on a night out after a belly full of beer. ignorance breeds hatred and bigotry and unfortunately there are a lot of ignorant ppl in the world and not just at football matches. what is juts as worrying is the spread of right wing extremists and neo-nazi groups throughout europe who r aligning themselves with various football clubs to enable organised mob fights among themselves and voilent attacks on minority groupings. it's a concern for the authorities before the world cup, but lets hope they can keep the thugs and racists away !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 i have seen programs on espn over here (programmes for you brits) and most of the incidents in question have occurred in spain. there does appear to be a greater tolerance of overt racism in spain. i've been following soccer football since 1994 and overall my impression is there are far more incidents of overt racism in european sports than in american sports. i vaguely remember a couple of incidents in the 90s in the premiership, and it's definitely not limited to spain. i think one involved ince when he was at man u, but i'm too lazy to confirm this. the kind documented in that programme (program for you americans), wherein club officials, players, coaching staff, and 'regular' fans express these views, is relatively rare in my opinion. but still far too prevalent, and shocking to see for an american who is used to seeing racism in sports expressed in subtle ways, like sports pundit's mild surprise that a black quarterback (the 'brain' of the offense on the field in american football, for you brits) coach or GM can be brilliantly successful. most of the incidents i remember were instigated by hooligans who use football as an excuse for violence, racism etc. basically just gangs. we don't have that problem in american sports generally--although gang bangers love sports jerseys, their organization isn't built around a professional sports team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 i've been following soccer football since 1994 and overall my impression is there are far more incidents of overt racism in european sports than in american sports. i vaguely remember a couple of incidents in the 90s in the premiership, and it's definitely not limited to spain. i think one involved ince when he was at man u, but i'm too lazy to confirm this. the kind documented in that programme (program for you americans), wherein club officials, players, coaching staff, and 'regular' fans express these views, is relatively rare in my opinion. but still far too prevalent, and shocking to see for an american who is used to seeing racism in sports expressed in subtle ways, like sports pundit's mild surprise that a black quarterback (the 'brain' of the offense on the field in american football, for you brits) coach or GM can be brilliantly successful. i would guess the reason there is more overt racism in euopean sports in general than american sports is that american sport (from a euopean perspective) has been dominated by black or minority athletes for years and now r widely accepted in the sports. it's f**king stupid to abuse black players when ur own stars tend to be black ... well it's just dumb to abuse black players in general, but hope u get my drift. mind u this reasoning doesn't seem to always apply to football fans in europe !! hopefully with more and more black and minority athletes coming to the fore attitudes and behaviour will imrove ... HOPEFULLY !!! in fairness to the british (something i'm not usually inclined towards) they have made impressive improvements in racism in sport and football in particular. this is probably a reflection of an improvement in attitudes in society as a whole, although there are still unsavoury incidents from time to time. hopefullly as ppl become more tolerant and understanding racism and bigotry will disappear completely, but unfortunately i don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 i would guess the reason there is more overt racism in euopean sports in general than american sports is that american sport (from a euopean perspective) has been dominated by black or minority athletes for years and now r widely accepted in the sports. yeah we already did our real ugly ****, and got our jackie robinsons etc. out of the way by the 50s. there are still problems from time to time--hockey, for example, where donald brashear has encountered some problems if i recall (dont remember the specifics, too lazy to look it up). it's f**king stupid to abuse black players when ur own stars tend to be black ... doesn't stop people in italy and spain though does it. go figure. in fairness to the british (something i'm not usually inclined towards) they have made impressive improvements in racism in sport and football in particular. agree. i think i saw the same sportscenter that derwin mentioned, and they implied (correctly, IMO) that the governing bodies of sport have to do something about it. if you throw a banana peel and your club forfeits the match and you're banned from the stadium for life, that might be a start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 agree. i think i saw the same sportscenter that derwin mentioned, and they implied (correctly, IMO) that the governing bodies of sport have to do something about it. if you throw a banana peel and your club forfeits the match and you're banned from the stadium for life, that might be a start... agreed. losing points or having to play all ur games away from home is the only serious way to tackle this problem. the fines handed out in spain and italy to the football clubs, managers and players (who r all worth millions) were pathetic and probably didn't even equate to a days pay !! no f**king deterrent there !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 agree. i think i saw the same sportscenter that derwin mentioned, and they implied (correctly, IMO) that the governing bodies of sport have to do something about it. if you throw a banana peel and your club forfeits the match and you're banned from the stadium for life, that might be a start... agreed. losing points or having to play all ur games away from home is the only serious way to tackle this problem. the fines handed out in spain and italy to the football clubs, managers and players (who r all worth millions) were pathetic and probably didn't even equate to a days pay !! no f**king deterrent there !! yeah--and even if they dock 'em six months' pay it doesnt deter the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoaBrotha Posted June 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 There were times when it was the norm at soccer matches. Nowadays, the chances are that if your average fan witnessed racist abuse at a football match, they would be appauled enough to report it. Leading to the perpetrators being banned for life. A generation ago, racist insults were commonplace and went unpunished. FIFA have already introduced a new set of guidelines dealing with the issue to establish a false viewpoint of a tournament such as the world cup. Are the rightwingers over there so deluded as to think that The USA couldn't play Iran without it resulting in airstrikes? I as well as others have seen footage of football fans kicking the **** out of each other and are made to belive that football fans are a bunch of neanderthals. Racist football fans don't stop being racist when they aren't following football, they are racist in everyday life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 i would guess the reason there is more overt racism in euopean sports in general than american sports is that american sport (from a euopean perspective) has been dominated by black or minority athletes for years and now r widely accepted in the sports. yeah we already did our real ugly sh*t, and got our jackie robinsons etc. out of the way by the 50s. Took longer than that. It wasn't until the early to mid 70s that black and latin baseball players could live and eat with their white teammates during spring training in Florida. It was separate and definitely unequal. In the 60s some teams constructed their own housing or rented entire hotels so black and latin players could stay with the team. It wasn't until the '70s that the Pirates fielded the first team that had a majority of minority players. Prior to then there were unwritten quotas. A book about that Pirates team has just been published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 i would guess the reason there is more overt racism in euopean sports in general than american sports is that american sport (from a euopean perspective) has been dominated by black or minority athletes for years and now r widely accepted in the sports. yeah we already did our real ugly sh*t, and got our jackie robinsons etc. out of the way by the 50s. Took longer than that. It wasn't until the early to mid 70s that black and latin baseball players could live and eat with their white teammates during spring training in Florida. It was separate and definitely unequal. In the 60s some teams constructed their own housing or rented entire hotels so black and latin players could stay with the team. It wasn't until the '70s that the Pirates fielded the first team that had a majority of minority players. Prior to then there were unwritten quotas. A book about that Pirates team has just been published. excellent point. sloppy on my part. european football IMO still hasn't made it to the 80s yet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 excellent point. sloppy on my part. european football IMO still hasn't made it to the 80s yet though. european football has certainly made it to the 80's, attitudes and values in parts of european society may not have reached the 80's. never having been to the US would be interested on some comments as to how racist society in the US is in comparison with europe !! although i guess that is getting slightly off topic !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Well,well,well,Listen to you, I seen many many of your comments left all over tf. and you, my old mucker are THE most racist member here I can think of, Talk about 'the pot calling the kettle black', in case you don't know racism dosn't mean only white on black, at every twist 'n' turn you let loose with the most blatant racism towards the English, English as a race, If you hate the English so what, do we all have to keep hearing about it, I for one don't give a sh*t, but your life seems to be pre-ocupied by it, how sad is that, get over it or live with it, and as a matter of fact Ireland IS the most intolerant country in all of europe towards foreigniers, Now you can reply in the most viscous personal attack you like, I don't care it will just prove my point, And another point generally on tf. many members shout a lot about conflicts ect. going on around the world, and how bad and wrong it is, ie. Iraq, but judging by the overall nastyness towards members by members of another country often seen, I'm surprised there isn't more wars in the world, well i'd be interested to see ANY racist comments i have made on TF. i may poke fun at the english, but so do many other ppl and americans, germans and sheep shaggers ... sorry i mean aussies all get just as much abuse on TF as the english do !! i'd be interested to see what statistics u can produce to show that ireland IS the most intolerant country in ALL of europe towards foreigners !! or is this just something u pulled out of ur ass ?? while ireland may have some problems it doesn't have any where near the number of racist attacks as many other european countries (including england). ppl in glass houses maybe shouldn't start chucking bricks around !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankenburner2 Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 hi derwin, i don't believe football (soccer for u americans) has any more of a problem with racism than society in general. the incidents u r talking about occured in spain and italy and there racism appears to be tolerated. the fines handed out for what had happened were pathetic and would act as absolutely no deterrent to prevent the same thing happening again. the crazy thing about the monkey chants and banana stuff is that the fans indulging in this sh*t will cheer on their own black players, guess it shows the intelligence of the pricks involved.i guess these guys would behave the same way in the street, in a restaurant and more especially on a night out after a belly full of beer. ignorance breeds hatred and bigotry and unfortunately there are a lot of ignorant ppl in the world and not just at football matches.what is juts as worrying is the spread of right wing extremists and neo-nazi groups throughout europe who r aligning themselves with various football clubs to enable organised mob fights among themselves and voilent attacks on minority groupings. it's a concern for the authorities before the world cup, but lets hope they can keep the thugs and racists away !! Well,well,well, Listen to you, I seen many many of your comments left all over tf. and you, my old mucker are THE most racist member here I can think of, Talk about 'the pot calling the kettle black', in case you don't know racism dosn't mean only white on black, at every twist 'n' turn you let loose with the most blatant racism towards the English, English as a race, If you hate the English so what, do we all have to keep hearing about it, I for one don't give a sh*t, but your life seems to be pre-ocupied by it, how sad is that, get over it or live with it, and as a matter of fact Ireland IS the most intolerant country in all of europe towards foreigniers, Now you can reply in the most viscous personal attack you like, I don't care it will just prove my point, And another point generally on tf. many members shout a lot about conflicts ect. going on around the world, and how bad and wrong it is, ie. Iraq, but judging by the overall nastyness towards members by members of another country often seen, I'm surprised there isn't more wars in the world, Last time I checked, the Englsih weren't a "race,".......the Irish have always picked on the English, the English have always picked on the Irish...it's a national past-time in both countries....much like canada and the US...without the soldiers and IRA of course....you can ciaran a boob, a jerk, obnoxious, crass, insulting, low-brow, bald, and even a "scumbag".....but he ain't racist! (you can thank me later ciaran!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankenburner2 Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 sheep shaggers ... sorry i mean aussies That would be the New Zealanders who have affectionate and intimate relations with their sheep, not the aussies. Please if your going to exercise your statistically unproven Irish intolerance on other peoples, try and get the facts straight. :roll: aussies and sheep - new zealanders and sheep......same - same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 you can ciaran a boob, a jerk, obnoxious, crass, insulting, low-brow, bald, and even a "scumbag".....but he ain't racist! (you can thank me later ciaran!) i'm a boob, jerk, obnoxious, crass etc etc ... gee thanks bruce it's a long time since anybody's had so many nice things to say about me .... unfortunately i'm usually called a lot worse !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankenburner2 Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 you can ciaran a boob, a jerk, obnoxious, crass, insulting, low-brow, bald, and even a "scumbag".....but he ain't racist! (you can thank me later ciaran!) i'm a boob, jerk, obnoxious, crass etc etc ... gee thanks bruce it's a long time since anybody's had so many nice things to say about me .... unfortunately i'm usually called a lot worse !! your welcome. It's just one of the many fine services I provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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