zeusbheld Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 CHIANG MAI, Thailand (AP) -- A Swiss man accused of insulting this nation's monarchy by spray-painting over several portraits of the revered king pleaded guilty Monday and faces a maximum 75-year prison sentence.Oliver Rudolf Jufer, 57, was caught by surveillance cameras on December 5 spray-painting black paint over several portraits of King Bhumibol Adulyadej in the northern city of Chiang Mai, police said. His lawyer said he was intoxicated during the act. The vandalism coincided with Bhumibol's 79th birthday, which was celebrated across Thailand with fireworks and prayers. The king is the world's longest-serving monarch. Jufer made no comment as he entered the courthouse with his legs chained, dressed in an orange prison uniform. Judge Chaikrit Devaplin said Jufer pleaded guilty, reversing an initial statement of non-guilt that he had made to police, and a sentence was expected to be issued March 29. The trial was closed to the public, and prosecutors declined to discuss details of the case because of sensitivities in Thailand about portraying the beloved king in a negative light. "Revealing the details of this case does not benefit anybody because it involves the king and the monarchy," said prosecutor Bhanu Kwanyuen, adding only that Jufer is accused of defacing five posters and faces a penalty of between three and 15 years in prison for each one. "In every Thai constitution, the king is revered and worshipped, and he cannot be insulted," Bhanu said. "Thai people cannot accept this act of insulting the king." Jufer has lived in Thailand for more than 10 years, and lives in Chiang Mai, said his court-appointed lawyer, Komkhit Kunyodying. The military launched a separate investigation into the incident, saying Jufer's act raised suspicion that he was hired by someone opposed to the September 19 coup that ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Chiang Mai, about 350 miles north of Bangkok, is Thaksin's hometown and a key base of support for the former prime minister. Millions of portraits of the king were erected late last year to honor his birthday. Across the kingdom, people also wore yellow shirts, a sign of devotion to the king. i'm not buying it as a screenplay. i can't find anyone to root for, or even care about, although maybe coen bros could do something with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_love_som_tam Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 i'm not buying it as a screenplay. i can't find anyone to root for, or even care about, although maybe coen bros could do something with it. Sounds more like Roger Corman material. :roll: i think joel and ethan can put the appropriate comedic spin on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 i'm not buying it as a screenplay. i can't find anyone to root for, or even care about, although maybe coen bros could do something with it. Sounds more like Roger Corman material. :roll: too dry. he goes for easy-kill high-concept stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Whatever your personal views are about the Big Man you should keep quiet,you know the law of the land and what could happen. I saw on BBC World today the guy has lived here for 10 years, he should know better...... NO SYMPATHY......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackyB Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Right he lived here for 10 years and I heard he was upset that the bars were closed for the holiday so that is why he spray painted the pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsnow Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Man, you start to sound like ppl on Thavisa who were instantly saying that those two russian women who were shot to death probably just deserved what they were getting, after all they just were probably hookers. Right....Man.... :?:?:?:?:?:?:? (I don't see Coen brothers making the film, but I think Tarantino could give it a bloody spin, maybe combine it with the Pattaya two Russian females shot to death incident?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackyB Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 I don't think its the best idea to turn this thing into a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_mai_dee Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 potentially 75 years for spray painting a few pictures is a joke not unlike a law suit for 4000 year's salary for reporting the (at the time allegedly non-existent) cracks at Suvarnabhumi airport of course, we must get this into perspective....presiding over the extra-judicial killings of some 2000 alleged 'drug dealers' is quite ok...for that, you just get to lose your job and have your diplomatic passport temporarily revoked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsnow Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 potentially 75 years for spray painting a few pictures is a joke Btw, noticed yesterday some differences in the reporting, The Nation ran story by French press, they had 15 yrs maximum. But every other link is talking about 5x15yrs max. So I guess the odds are The Nations story is not right. (But well, they have different story today from French press, with the similar 75 yrs up again...) What, are u saying that also Thai legal system has funny possibilities? No way man! Can't be! I think that compensation claim was just ok, poor journalists should pay for making truthful exposes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HangoutBkkcool Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 My bet is, he does get sentenced and then is given a Royal pardon and kick out of Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsnow Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Excellent report from BBC News, if only had this link available when putting the poll: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6442331.stm "His best hope now is that the judge shows leniency, or that some kind of diplomatic, face-saving deal can be done that lets him leave the country. Otherwise, his lawyer said, the minimum sentence the judge can pass is seven and a half years in jail. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldMember Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Excellent report from BBC News, if only had this link available when putting the poll:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6442331.stm "His best hope now is that the judge shows leniency, or that some kind of diplomatic, face-saving deal can be done that lets him leave the country. Otherwise, his lawyer said, the minimum sentence the judge can pass is seven and a half years in jail. " Yes very interesting, particuarly regarding the popularity of the Thai heir apparent.You can draw vague similarities with the UK's Queenie and son and future heir -Prince Charlie boy.One popular but the other ...not quite so endeared in the hearts of the great unwashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekka Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Well if they are willing to show him some leniency for his CrimeWhich I don't think they should. But lets say Hypothetically they consider & take into account his excuses for doing so. His Drunkeness & his Stupidity. So that is two counts that can let him off with. That is two thirds. 1/3 of blame remains. He can get a sentence up to 75 years. Applying the proportion of blame in regarding his sentence. 1/3 of 75 =25. I think that would be reasonable outcome. If a Thai National was guilty of the same ofence he wouldn't be shown any leniency. I'm sure they would not show them any mercy at all. My opinion is that he should get at least 25 years. I do no feel sorry for him at all. Using an excuse for part of his actions I don't think that is valid. Out of drunkeness the truth reveals itself. His crime was insulting The King of Thailand, who is the longest serving Monarch of all time.Their would be no worse crime you could commit in Thailand. I don't think. He has shown no respect for the Monarch of this land & has no respect for the Laws of this land. He deserves to punished for his crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolbreez Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I doubt he will learn from any punishment he gets, but I would like to see him go to jail for the mazimum, and then let His Majesty The King decide when to pardon him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackyB Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I would say he would learn from spending some time in prison and especially when every thai guy in there is kicking his ass for what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekka Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I have been previewing the other comments Tf members are posting. They all have some variations of opinions, which is natural. Some are going on blow for blow. I have had that experience .It's not worth. It is just a waste of breath to me. The issue is the crime he commited, The other is the obediency of following the Law of Thailand. Full stop. All countries have Laws they vary as well. East is East & West Is West It might be seen that some of the Eastern Country Laws are Babaric to Western Society. The trouble is with the Wests Ideals, they are way to soft.Their is more tolerence for the Perpertrator than the Victim. Do you think that is how it should be ? Do you think it is a just Law? I do not. But to the Eastern Society their Laws are Justifiable. To cut the rate of crime. In Singapore their are huge posrters every where If you are caught Trafficing in drugs you face the penalty of Death. Does Western Society also say that is a barbaric Law.Singapore does care about what the West thinks of their Law. Why should They. You know what I class as barbaric. The trafficing of Drugs & the Drug Dealer.Hey if that is your scene you are welcome to it your choice. But when it is enticing young Children - School kids teenagers & adults to a lesser extent. How many lives are they destroying. Not only the individuals but also their respective Families. Every body is affected by Drugs.A money making concern with humans being a disposable commodity. So you think that's okay,humanitarium & decency wise? Too many do gooders in the western society, we have to be Politically correct. It's complete BULLDUST! The Laws of the Land are fair so long as they are applied equally. You could not be fairer than that. Also the point in question. Why Visit a foreign land if you are not prepared to Respect the people & Laws of the Land. You are a guest in any Country you visit. So don't you think you owe them RESPECT. If you are not prepared to make adjustments in a Foreign Land , then their is simple solution. Stay in your own Backyard. A lot of people travel to foreign Countries. What do most of them do. They hang around with their own Nationalities.How stupid is that? If you don't want to mix with the people of that Land you are insulting them as well as being a Ignoramus(.Ignorant person) How do you expect to learn about them if you don't mix with them. To have understanding of any person or Culture you have to learn about it. So easy an exercise, But many do not & do not want to make an effort. They say you should never **** inyour own back yard. Why then you would disrespect & **** in other peoples back yards. End of Story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekka Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Keebone. Why don't you read my comment in it's entirety & proper context. The issue is not as simple as you make out. It is lot more complicated than that. You are insulting my intelligence. I do not cop any insults that are not warranted.As for being a Criminal & stupid Australian. That is down right degrading not only for me but my fellow countrymen as well as my Country. I don't think you should attack a person verbally, especially when you don't know a thing about them. So Back off!!! I don't real care where you are from & I certainly don't want to know you. The simple reason I only mix with people of inrelligence,you seem to be lacking so horribly in that Department. You are also a nit picketr just posting an excerpt of my journal to suit & validate your point. That's stupidity. You are also very small minded. I don't see you as a man of the World. I don't think you have travelled much at all.Had you done so it would have increased your Knowledge & would have broaden d your horizons. That way you would be able to comprehend The proper issues & what is involved. Not like you put it ,Just a case of spraying an inanimate object. That statemement is simple ,you are just as simple. You are English right. How did I get to know that. You put yourself in by saying you thought we only sent criminals & not our stupid also. That fact alone reveals to me that you are in fact the stupid one. As for the King not being the longest reigning Monarch You are right it was Queen Viictoria Just under 64years. Thailands king has 60 years up to last year. I meant to say he was the longest LIVING Monarch in the world which he is. My error, I will have to accept it. I made it I should wear it . I think you should take the same course. (ATTITUDE) So we will leave it at that. We Aussies tire of Beating you in all the major sports. Only one major sport we can't beat you in is Football. ( We call it Soccer.) But hey we have quite a few Aussie footballers playing inEnglish football clubs. Also our Rugby League Players & coaches. I 'm not sure if we have any Coaches over there at present.Well that does it for me. I don't know if you will ever read my comments.If it happens it happens. I could always send you a PM *Notify you. I don't know if it is worth the trouble.Try to improve yourself ok I do sort of care in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biachung Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 no jail, community service yes, like sweeping the streets , 8 hours a day for 1 month, now thats pretty harsh right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekka Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Keebone that's okay it is only your opinion. Everybody on this site is entitled to voice their own views. We are all different just as well. But I am not blowing my own Trumpet. I know mysef, what & who I am . No else knows me better than I do. The fact is I know I am definitely not an idiot I am not being egotistical or vain I am not that type of person. Just regular guy,friendly & down to earth person, which is typical of most Aussies. That's is why we are liked all a round the world. It's not really worth it to get heated over anything that isn't affecting us. All we are doing is voicing our own opinions as to what that Swiss guy deserves. Opinions only. that won't count at all or have any bearing whatsoever on the outcome of his guilt or sentencing. So why biother getting your knickers in a knot. Life's to short to waste precious time over a non issue. Aussie regards to the Old Dart.Hope the Sun comes out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsnow Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 There has been (naturally, as we are a big community with all kinds of opinions) wide range of opinion what should be appropriate/what he will get. Some of us have been on the "kick out of country, give little sentence" side and some in the very harsh way of giving out the not surprising view of "their country, their rules" or as Dekka most recently put it about respect etc. Lemme tell you another story, to show how we westerners really are just ******* with our Hilton hotel like jails and so on (add sarcasm as I am one of the ppl who are not supporting the camp of "you brake the law, you pay consequenses even when the system seems to be totally warped in some views"). Legal systems differ: In Iran, a 19 yrs daughter, young woman facing death sentence. Teheran. The girl has similar aged Iranian friends. They go out together one night in 2005. She 17 and her local friend 15 yrs old. In a park they are attacked by three men, trying to rape the girls. The girls were with their bfs who fled the scene. She drew a knife somewhere and stabbed two attemping rapists, killing one of them. She was sentenced to death by hanging. If she and her friend had been raped succesfully, the girls would have been given 100 lashes under chastity laws (In Thailand women are in contrast only publicly humilated and told that just an accusation of a crime is prove of guilt when the alleged crime is connected to sexuality). Or even more interesting, if they would have been married, they would be stoned to death for being adulterous. You brake the law, you pay the price. Death from self-defense. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE A LOCAL, as Dekka relates to us ("No mercy on Thais under lese majesty"). Now, this is not some hate speech against muslims, nor this is against lese majesty per se, but another example of case where my and probably many others legal sense and ethical and moral and what not feelings overcome the feeling of upholding the "you brake the law, you pay the price what ever it is and stop whining". Is there any mercy inside some of you? Probably not. Kill the Iranian girl, she should have known better as she was living in that country and knew the laws, sentence the Swiss man to 75 yrs because he should have known the law and what follows from it too. http://www.bodog.tv/ http://www.myspace.com/savenazanin http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2132568.ece Ofcourse this thread can't do a rats ass to Thai legal system as a whole, or Iranian legal system. That is not the point, point is from my part to see what variety of opinions there were out there on this case. This thread won't change, bBut definetly some other public methods can affect the system, maybe even lese majeste laws eventually, as public roar changed the Iranian girls fate eventually. So it is good that not everyone is like Dekka or some others in this thread, because if it was up to them, similarly the Iranian girl would have been killed. "Opinions only. that won't count at all or have any bearing whatsoever on the outcome of his guilt or sentencing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldMember Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Boil him in a cauldron of bubbling fondue-a horrible yet rather savoury death. Or you could say it was an unsavoury savoury death ...unless of course you hate cheese-then it becomes an unsavoury unsavoury death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekka Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I thoght i was being nice to you. Oh well you can please some the people some othe time, but you can't please all of the people all of the Time. As for being long winded it just goes to show you that I have some knowledge which you don't appreciate.That's fine by me. You haven't much to say at all replying in a few sentences. you don't know how to express yourself as you vocabulary is limited.Maybe it is not your fault,you may not have been given the opportunity, if that is the case I forgive you. Knowledge is an asset that can also be used as a tool. I can deduce from Your lack of knowledge, that you are in deed a fool. That even Rhymes , clever, clever. If you post a reply I am not going to answer because this to & fro-ing it's wasting my precious time. Time is money & I am not even getting any small or loose change out you. You wont wind me up .I am not taking the bait. So I think you had better cast of in another direction & go an annoy some other fish. you are beginning to be a Pest. Expel some Gas from your rear & take off. That's a good boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsnow Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 The guy is a total idiot, not least because if he really needed a drink he could of found a bar quietly selling alcohol the same as I did on that night. Yep! Agreed! I'd like to see anyone convicted of a crime deported from the UK if they are not British, even foreigners convicted of crimes such as child rape are not automatically deported upon completion of sentence here. Fact? (Out of topic but I think there was similar documentary/newsprogram here too..of immigrants doing crime and hmm, multiple crimes and now, gosh, I can't get to my mind what was the loophole they used not to get deported...It might have gone like this if my fading memory serves me correct, that here when you get sentenced, you are not immediatly thrown into jail but you are given time to sort your things out, yeah stupid I know, and during this time these guys jump the ship and ofcourse never come forward to the officers..So they continue running around without deportation...Hmm, I wonder if this story was connected to marrying Finnish women too, but as I said...can't remember. But something similar to your grief here too ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsnow Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Boil him in a cauldron of bubbling fondue-a horrible yet rather savoury death.Or you could say it was an unsavoury savoury death ...unless of course you hate cheese-then it becomes an unsavoury unsavoury death. You sound French who likes food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekka Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Hi Sunsnow. I know what you are saying. In relation to those incidents in Teheran it is very sad & unjust. What you descibed is real, no doubt about it. Their are always anomilies in Law but that is too ridiculous for words. Those Laws are definitely barbaric because of the fact that, the Law isn't applied equally.Muslims go by the Koran Law as you know. But in the Middle Eastern Koran Law is not all the same. Differnt regions interpret it in their own way to suit themselves. They are extremist & intoduce extreme harsh Laws. Women are treated as second rate. As far as Muslims men are concerned they are only useful for cooking & Bearing children.More or less treated as cattle. Women are supressed & opressed into a life of misery & subserviient life. If you get a chance peruse Indian law. They also have some harsh & cruel Laws. Thailand Law is completely different. It is applied equally ,everyone is treated the same. Although in some cases the Farang is given preferential treatment. The motivation for that is to not to upset some Western Countries & politically maintain a sense of respect. Also to keep the Diplomacy channel open with the Counties involvde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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