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Money as debt..

Slurms

By Slurms,
in Politics & Social Issues

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Slurms Newbie

Slurms

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This documentary really introduces the sad state of the world economy and the oncoming implosion in a very simple way...

you should all watch it as an introduction ...it contains little Jargon or spectacular claims , it's very simple , factual and it's not something you want to remain ignorant towards...

[http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

After you can go and look up presidential candidate Ron Paul . He could save us all .

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zeusbheld Newbie

zeusbheld

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Well rather than poopooing, I watched it. (Despite the True Slow-speed biffering times.)

Very interesting.

Of course, for the blind (and ignorant masses who'd rather not believe it), it's just something else to defend against.

It's the privilege of the distant to be able to see the greater picture.

i'll wait for the book.

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zeusbheld Newbie

zeusbheld

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i'll wait for the book.

Interesting thought.

firstly, i *was* joking. i might look at a doc from time to time for information rather than as a film,, but depends on who presents it to me and why.

Don't you think it's strange that we are more likely to accept something if we can see it in print and hold it physically in our hands rather than on some more ephemeral medium such as video?

books and academic journals are more likely to stress the argument rather than an emotional appeal. they target a narrower audience (specialists for example) also they tend to have a lot more information per hour spent. for dense and/or controversial topics, i'd rather get closer to the source. for example for if i'm interested in evolutionary psychology is read some books for an overview, then try to find journal articles, read the abstract, and completely fail to comprehend the math.

Coming from a film-maker (Documentary film-maker?), this is quite a revelation. I would have thought you'd be only too willing to add credence to such a presentation rather than to dismiss it so easily.

i really don't see documentaries as the best medium for dissemination of information. what they're good for: a) polemics and propaganda, B) overview of non-controversial topics, c) slice of life type stuff like "grey gardens" (docs predated reality tv and got a lot weirder) and d) interviews with notables.

that said i've got tentative plans to make an a) and possibly even get buy-in from the chinese government. the subject of the a) will be mental healthcare in china, or the lack thereof. why make this doc? to inform? NO. to persuade.

I.e., you would rather read about it than watch it. Coming from you in particular, it does seem rather strange.

given that i know how they're put together, i dont' think it strange at all. if it's not a through d and the topic's controversial, then edutainment = infomercial. i don't want to watch the infomercials until i already have some familiarity with the literature on the topic. i don't like to start with a polemic.

You've touched on something here. I'll have to give this some thought.

if a subject tends to be controversial, last place i'd want to look first is a doc. they are designed to persuade, not inform. it's inherent in the medium. even the 'informative' ones, such as on discovery channel etc, are designed to press your buttons. no buttons pressed = no viewers. whereas books are cheap to make and can be done through academic presses with low print runs etc. different scale of production, they dont' need lots of viewers.

(BTW sorry for the capitalisation of "documentary". I was affording it a title.)

i don't really notice that sort of thing usually--- just like to needle you now and then coz englsih and grammer is so importent at you.

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zeusbheld Newbie

zeusbheld

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short version: assuming a documentary is factual, documentaries are made to present facts in a persuasive way, not to disseminate information. i'd rather not start with a polemic, if i bother with them at all.

also in my exerience crap filmmaking = crap thinking; i can find the same argument done better elsewhere often enough where i don't feel like i'm missing out if i shut a doc off after only 10 minutes.

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zeusbheld Newbie

zeusbheld

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Though just because I am aware of such, doesn't stop me from accepting that there is truth which may be presented to me within another medium.

didnt' say there wasn't. i'd go so far as to say there are some movies i'd place above most books. one of 'em is even a doc (grey gardens).

The points you make are valid, but almost dismissive (sorry I've used this word a few times tonight), of the fact that they are presented visually.

given that i'm stating why docs are not my first approach to certain kinds of material---in effect, dismissing it for *my* purposes---what's wrong with being 'almost dismissive'?

Ok you have inside information on the subject to which I'm not privy. I wouldn't disagree with the fact that to a certain degree it's edutainment either, but to the literate, so are books. The subject at hand is money. You are already familiar with it, what literature would you like to familiarise yourself with before you consider yourself knowledgeable enough to form an opinion?

i'm not all that familiar with economics but i have a passing familiarity with ron paul. primary sources; his own words on the federal reserve system, etc. then opposition responses of some sort, would be my first choice. i might just end up skipping the doc anyway, if i'd gleaned enough info for my purposes.

Better to start with a polemic than to finish with one.
i'd rather finish with one. i don't talk to a salesman until i know the product and how much it's worth to me.

Ok, I'll just trot out tomorrow down to my local Bangkok bookstore and obtain the latest publications.

well i think you wouldn't have to here, since the subject is debt and given mr paul's agenda involves moving back toward a silver or gold standard, i'd start with paul's own statements, and reserearch from there. i'd get some fundamental knowledge of how the federal reserve system actually works. personally i find mr paul to be somewhat interesting. i don't agree with him on many things (abortion for example; he's pro life i'm for abortion up to the 70th year) but i don't think he's a loony either.
Mate you know you can't just say something has only entertainment value just cos it had .doc after its title.
didn't say that. i said documentaries are an inherently manipulative medium. more so than, say words on a page (or screen). a remote helps, you can go faster or slower--but not enough.
Bloody hell. Don't you use Word to type your stuff? There ain't a book in the world printed within the last few years that hasn't had .doc after its name at some point. the suffix has no relevence to the subject written or to what we are discussing. This statement is just totally unrelated.
interesting tangent... no wait, no it isnt.
Yes TV (you cite Discovery Channel), is there to entertain, titilate and to bring you back again for the next thriling episode, or no viewers. But, once again, it doesn't mean that another medium of presentation other than books has no truth or significance.
of course not. but if you come away from watching the nat geo series on building collapses afraid to go in a reinforced concrete building, the docs didnt do you any favors.

That's Grammor and your impotence is of little import.

are you calling me self-impotent?
(I'd just like to add that the jiggling around of quote boxes has taken twice as much out of me as has replying to you. Git.)

it ain't THAT hard. trust the 'message preview' button. made more of 'em. crybaby :P

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zeusbheld Newbie

zeusbheld

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I'll console myself in the apparent fact that your answers were composed before my questions were posed.

I have no reference to this Mr Paul you refer to (other than that the OP refers to him too.)

I'm an apolitcal outsider remember.

that's what google's for, honey.

oh and a tip: TYPE The quote codes it's faster than cutting and pasting.

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zeusbheld Newbie

zeusbheld

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You guys should take the 47 minutes to watch the whole thing before going off on weird rants against America and the virtues of books vs other media.

Then get your asses back on track and make relevant comments.

Ooops sorry.. I forgot.. this is Thailandfriends.

a) whether or not documentaries are a good way to acquire information *is* relevant, and B) i've stated clearly that i prefer not to watch it, and why. that hardly implies that there's something wrong with it, i've maid some claims about the genre in general.

so basically you're telling me that, with all the documentaries i've seen (and worked on) this is the one that will change my mind about how documentaries work? i doubt it. that said, doesn't mean the information's bad, just that it's not a medium i trust.

all very relevant, in my opinion, but yeah it's still TF.

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condotown Newbie

condotown

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You guys should take the 47 minutes to watch the whole thing before going off on weird rants against America and the virtues of books vs other media.

Then get your asses back on track and make relevant comments.

Ooops sorry.. I forgot.. this is Thailandfriends.

a) whether or not documentaries are a good way to acquire information *is* relevant, and B) i've stated clearly that i prefer not to watch it, and why. that hardly implies that there's something wrong with it, i've maid some claims about the genre in general.

so basically you're telling me that, with all the documentaries i've seen (and worked on) this is the one that will change my mind about how documentaries work? i doubt it. that said, doesn't mean the information's bad, just that it's not a medium i trust.

all very relevant, in my opinion, but yeah it's still TF.

YOU ARE OFF ON A TANGENT..

Why don't you see, my friend, that when you don't have something to say about the actual substance of the forum thread you are not obligated to comment on the style of presentation or analyze or attack some small part of it. The actual content of that documentary is riveting, but you draw attention away from it with your own personal bullshit. You do that way too much and you should stop drawing all attention to yourself as if what you have to say overrides all others' ideas and thoughts.

This is the closest I have gotten to a personal attack but it isn't.. I'm just telling you that if you don't really have something worthwhile or at least interesting to contribute.... STFU.

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zeusbheld Newbie

zeusbheld

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You guys should take the 47 minutes to watch the whole thing before going off on weird rants against America and the virtues of books vs other media.

Then get your asses back on track and make relevant comments.

Ooops sorry.. I forgot.. this is Thailandfriends.

a) whether or not documentaries are a good way to acquire information *is* relevant, and B) i've stated clearly that i prefer not to watch it, and why. that hardly implies that there's something wrong with it, i've maid some claims about the genre in general.

so basically you're telling me that, with all the documentaries i've seen (and worked on) this is the one that will change my mind about how documentaries work? i doubt it. that said, doesn't mean the information's bad, just that it's not a medium i trust.

all very relevant, in my opinion, but yeah it's still TF.

YOU ARE OFF ON A TANGENT..

Why don't you see, my friend, that when you don't have something to say about the actual substance of the forum thread you are not obligated to comment on the style of presentation or analyze or attack some small part of it. The actual content of that documentary is riveting, but you draw attention away from it with your own personal bullshit. You do that way to much and you should stop drawing all attention to yourself as if what you have to say overrides all others' ideas and thoughts.

This is the closest I have gotten to a personal attack but it isn't.. I'm just telling you that if you don't really have something worthwhile or at least interesting to contribute.... STFU.

you may say your piece but i am under no obligation to heed your "order" to STFU.

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Slurms Newbie

Slurms

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ha ha ha ha

plonker. read the thread and you will feel really silly. didn't say it was.

Wasn't talking about you .

Just because something is presented in a documentary , that does not mean it's wrong ...and of course...for fucks sakes...that doesn't mean you should take it all at face value .

But documentaries can be a great way of getting a quick context of a subject . Let other people go out there and do the hard work for you by pointing you in the direction of something you might consider worth studying further , then you can fact check and read more until your hearts content .

I do think the topic is interesting enough (and by the way..this is how the ******* banking system works...not some wacko's "theory") ....and you remain ignorant to it at your own peril...

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zeusbheld Newbie

zeusbheld

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ha ha ha ha

plonker. read the thread and you will feel really silly. didn't say it was.

Wasn't talking about you .

my bad.

Just because something is presented in a documentary , that does not mean it's wrong ...and of course...for fucks sakes...that doesn't mean you should take it all at face value .

agree

But documentaries can be a great way of getting a quick context of a subject . Let other people go out there and do the hard work for you by pointing you in the direction of something you might consider worth studying further , then you can fact check and read more until your hearts content .

I do think the topic is interesting enough (and by the way..this is how the f*cking banking system works...not some wacko's "theory") ....and you remain ignorant to it at your own peril...

all fair enough. and yeah it's most likely a useful gloss on the federal reserve banking system from a libertarian perspective.

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zeusbheld Newbie

zeusbheld

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all fair enough. and yeah it's most likely a useful gloss on the federal reserve banking system from a libertarian perspective.

DUDE!!! Watch it!!!

You are way off again!!

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ STFU ..... (or watch it)

my bad, i thought the OP said ron paul was in it. the loud thud was me jumping to conclusions, sorry.

a question to you or anyone: you say it is good info. but how is it as a movie? i mean i know it's a doc so i'm not expecting 'entertainment' per se, but is it a good ride? enjoyable to watch?

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Slurms Newbie

Slurms

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my bad, i thought the OP said ron paul was in it. jumping to conclusions, sorry.

It's nothing to do with Ron Paul . It's a simple documentary that informs you , incase you ever wondered "Where does money come from?" Actually reading your posts you know a bit about the topic Zeus .

It makes a few simple revelations .

-How it came to pass that the only way to get new money into the system is by new debt .

-That the ammount of money in the system is entirely related to the ammount of debt , so that if we paid off all the debt in the world , there would literally be no money

-That the only way to sustain this system is where we keep on making more and more debt so that there can be more money

- The problem is the government borrows money from the federal reserve bank which charges it interest ...and this is where it gets interesting....

Watch for yourself if you are interested...or let those have and are discuss it...

So did anyone look up ron paul ? He's got some speaches out on youtube which make a nice introduction....this is the main problem he wants to tackle.... RON PAUL !!! RON PAUL !! (except again I must agree with Zeus...as I'm not pro life either ...well...not without reason....for example I think abortion needs to be done in a timeframe...like before 3 months , but perhaps I'll leave that for doctors to decide)

a question to you or anyone: you say it is good info. but how is it as a movie? i mean i know it's a doc so i'm not expecting 'entertainment' per se, but is it a good ride? enjoyable to watch?

Nah...quite dull . Dumbed down and not sensationalistic . Bordering on dull if you knew about this topic before , but a nice intro if you didn't .

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