World Recession

[eagle]

where is this money coming from

Hope it's not Monopoly money!!!

they are printing up more as we speak :shock:

[Administrator]

where is this money coming from

Hope it's not Monopoly money!!!

they are printing up more as we speak :shock:

Invest in cotton!

[beej]

SEC just banned shortselling! WTF!

argh...

So they should, this market needs to stop spotty coke heads from ******* a market for their gains on borrowed stock.

Then again if it wasn't for them this week would never have been as much fun as it has for trading.

[Administrator]

I just checked the S.C. exchange, and short times are still hovering around 1,500.

Regardless, it's still time to pull out.

[eagle]

Don't worry aboutit John McCain says he will fix Wall Street. He has "taken on tougher guys than this before " :roll:

[beej]

I just checked the S.C. exchange, and short times are still hovering around 1,500.

Including the barfine?

Bar fines are up 100 points today, and the DOW is just about to open so hold on, you could be paying double Bar fines tonight.

[Ngairo]

I just checked the S.C. exchange, and short times are still hovering around 1,500.

Including the barfine?

Bar fines are up 100 points today, and the DOW is just about to open so hold on, you could be paying double Bar fines tonight.

There's always great financial opportunities in a recession.....know of any bar jobs going?

[WHISKERS]

Pa-anic on the streets of Lon-don

Pa-nic on the streets of Birmingham

Smiths, bad. Recession, good.

Just ask the starving 60% of the world's population how a worldwide recession would change their lives.

"OH MY GOD WE'LL ALL STARVE TO DEATH!!!"

How true . . . those living in poverty all of their lives don't even know the difference. How can they panic when they know nothing will ever change for them?

[Cosmo]

Still believing in the Pilbara?

Can't last forever van!!!

Dave, I do like the Pilbara too...just not at the prices back then.

Any way, I got some real bargains a couple of days ago... :roll:

[beej]

Still believing in the Pilbara?

Can't last forever van!!!

Dave, I do like the Pilbara too...just not at the prices back then.

Any way, I got some real bargains a couple of days ago... :roll:

Whacha get do tell.

[Cosmo]

Still believing in the Pilbara?

Can't last forever van!!!

Dave, I do like the Pilbara too...just not at the prices back then.

Any way, I got some real bargains a couple of days ago... :roll:

Whacha get do tell.

Understand this is just my own and not in any ways suggesting anyone should follow or do the same (one should always check with their investment advisor);

Any way, for myself, I bought banks and mining shares last week...IMHO, USD should fall again.

I also bought a call option.

At the same time, I am mindful of a fast pull back given rises in recent days...so I could be taking my money today... :roll: :roll:

[beej]

Still believing in the Pilbara?

Can't last forever van!!!

Dave, I do like the Pilbara too...just not at the prices back then.

Any way, I got some real bargains a couple of days ago... :roll:

Whacha get do tell.

Understand this is just my own and not in any ways suggesting anyone should follow or do the same (one should always check with their investment advisor);

Any way, for myself, I bought banks and mining shares last week...IMHO, USD should fall again.

I also bought a call option.

At the same time, I am mindful of a fast pull back given rises in recent days...so I could be taking my money today... :roll: :roll:

Good call, I did UK Banks last week, stupidly put all of my paper money into HBOS/Lloyds for an unknown reason, and that shockingly paid off very fast. I got out on Friday!

Also a few small mining/energy companies for 6 month investments, with the profits from last week.

[beej]

Mr Paulson has asked for congressional approval to raise the amount the government can borrow to $11.3 trillion (from $10.6 trillion) to cover that cost.

Great quick fix...... I'll just Borrow over half a Trillion dollars to pay off the bed debt.

*Cough* Computer says nooooooooo

[Bruce551]

Experts See a Need for Punitive Action in Bailout

ToD\day, NY Times

It absolutely has to be punitive,? Mr. Baker said. ?If they sell us the junk, then we own the company. This isn?t a way to make these companies and their executives rich. This should be about keeping them in business so the financial system doesn?t collapse.?

Other questions center on how to value what the Treasury aims to purchase ? an issue that goes to the heart of the crisis itself.

The financial system got to its dangerous perch by betting extravagantly on real estate. When housing prices began plummeting and borrowers stopped making payments, financial institutions found themselves with huge inventories of bad loans. Not simple loans, but complex investments created by pooling millions of mortgages together and then slicing them into pieces. These were the investments that Wall Street bought, sold and borrowed against in cooking up the money it poured into housing.

The trouble is that these investments are so intertwined and complex that no one seems able to figure out what they are worth. So no one has been willing to buy them. This is why banks have been in lockdown mode: with mystery enshrouding both the value of their assets and their future losses, banks have held tight to their remaining dollars, depriving the economy of capital.

Now, the Treasury aims to clear the fog by buying up these investments. But their value is as mysterious as ever.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/23skeptics.html?hp

[Cosmo]

In the coming days, we will all know whether the whole world will go into a mild or deep recession.

Fingers crossed that the last few days of threatre by Congressmen, Congresswomen and Senators, were mere political posturing before their election, and not a representation of their convictions.... :roll:

[beej]

Bring it on, cheap property, woo hooo.

[Cosmo]

News of a deal has been struck.....

[beej]

News of a deal has been struck.....

Really?

I kind of hope so, but what kind of deal is it?

[beej]

Just out of interest, are yanks concerned that the bailout plan will merely cover the asses of the mis-managing bankers and do nothing to save more mortgage foreclosures on the people who are also struggling and risk losing the roof from above their heads?

Seems like the banks will be able to continue business as usual, but what about the real people?

Will it help safeguard them too?

The little people will always be f**ked over, and the big people will always come out smelling of roses.

[beej]

This quick fix bail out will last a few weeks before it cracks and we all tumble into a deeper recession.

[beej]

Just out of interest, are yanks concerned that the bailout plan will merely cover the asses of the mis-managing bankers and do nothing to save more mortgage foreclosures on the people who are also struggling and risk losing the roof from above their heads?

Seems like the banks will be able to continue business as usual, but what about the real people?

Will it help safeguard them too?

The little people will always be f**ked over, and the big people will always come out smelling of roses.

Thats' the problem as far as I cansee. The companies bailed out will be able to continue trading as per, and the people who really need the help, will be in exactly the same situation.

This money should be used to help everyone in need, not just those who are responsible for creating the mess in the first place. CEOs on 500,000 a year who lose their jobs won't be hand to mouth suddenly. But there are people who are right now, and who won't benefit from this.

$700 billion it won't be, rescue package this won't be, farce is what it is.

[Cosmo]

The deal is now off again..... :cry: :roll:

A classic case of politician dithering whilst the economy falls over.

[Bruce551]

Paulson's proposal is unacceptable

PAUL KRUGMAN

26 Sept 08

Some sceptics are calling Henry Paulson's $700 billion rescue plan for the US financial system "cash for trash". Others are calling the proposed legislation the Authorisation for Use of Financial Force, after the Authorisation for Use of Military Force, the infamous bill that gave the Bush administration the green light to invade Iraq.

There's justice in the gibes. Everyone agrees that something major must be done. But Paulson is demanding extraordinary power for himself - and for his successor - to deploy taxpayers' money on behalf of a plan that, as far as I can see, doesn't make sense.

Some are saying that we should simply trust Paulson, because he's a smart guy who knows what he's doing. But that's only half true: he is a smart guy, but what, exactly, in the experience of the past year and a half - a period during which Paulson repeatedly declared the financial crisis "contained" and then offered a series of unsuccessful fixes - justifies the belief that he knows what he's doing? He's making it up as he goes along. So let's try to think this through for ourselves. I have a four-step view of the financial crisis:

1. The bursting of the housing bubble has led to a surge in defaults and foreclosures, which in turn has led to a plunge in the prices of mortgage-backed securities - assets whose value ultimately comes from mortgage payments.

2. These financial losses have left many financial institutions with too little capital - too few assets compared with their debt. This problem is especially severe because everyone took on so much debt during the bubble years.

3. Because financial institutions have too little capital relative to their debt, they haven't been able or willing to provide the credit the economy needs.

4. Financial institutions have been trying to pay down their debt by selling assets, including those mortgage-backed securities, but this drives asset prices down and makes their financial position even worse. This vicious circle is what some call the "paradox of de-leveraging".

The Paulson plan calls for the federal government to buy up $700 billion worth of troubled assets, mainly mortgage-backed securities. How does this resolve the crisis? Well, it might - might - break the vicious circle of de-leveraging, step 4 in my capsule description. Even that isn't clear: the prices of many assets, not just those the Treasury proposes to buy, are under pressure. And even if the vicious circle is limited, the financial system will still be crippled by inadequate capital.

Or rather, it will be crippled by inadequate capital unless the federal government hugely overpays for the assets it buys, giving financial firms - and their stockholders and executives - a giant windfall at the taxpayers' expense.

Did I mention that I'm not happy with this plan?

The logic of the crisis seems to call for an intervention, not at step 4, but at step 2: the financial system needs more capital. And if the government is going to provide capital to financial firms, it should get what people who provide capital are entitled to - a share in ownership, so that all the gains if the rescue plan works don't go to the people who made the mess in the first place.

That's what happened in the savings and loan crisis: the feds took over ownership of the bad banks, not just their bad assets. It's also what happened with Fannie and Freddie. (And by the way, that rescue has done what it was supposed to. Mortgage interest rates have come down sharply since the federal takeover.)

But Paulson insists that he wants a "clean" plan. "Clean," in this context, means a taxpayer-financed bailout with no strings attached - no quid pro quo on the part of those being bailed out. Why is that a good thing? Add to this the fact that Paulson is also demanding dictatorial authority, plus immunity from review "by any court of law or any administrative agency" - and this adds up to an unacceptable proposal.

I'm aware that Congress is under enormous pressure to agree to the Paulson plan, with at most a few modifications that make it slightly less bad.

Basically, after having spent a year and a half telling everyone that things were under control, the Bush administration says that the sky is falling, and that to save the world we have to do exactly what it says now, now, now.

But I'd urge Congress to pause for a minute, take a deep breath, and try to seriously rework the structure of the plan, making it a plan that addresses the real problem. Don't let yourself be railroaded - if this plan goes through in anything like its current form, we'll all be very sorry in the not-too-distant future.

Paul Krugman is a New York Times columnist.

***Paulson deal sucks and the taxpayer is getting the screw. The Gov. should buy stock in the "troubled" finance companies and get a seat on the Board of Directors.

Also, courts should be given the authority to make "workouts" on mortgage foreclosures so the little guy can stay in his house.

[beej]

Mughahhaa

Talks to agree a huge $700bn (£380bn) bail-out of the US financial industry have ended in a "shouting match".

Bloody yanks, its all they can do, from the top to the bottom....

[condotown]

So amazing that the US government still provides its common citizens the best overall possible educational opportunities on the planet, yet treats them like morons.

I divested myself of most of my remaining securities last night and now I'm sitting back to watch it play out. But this isn't about me or how I'm positioned to ride it out.. It is about how the overwhelming greed and corruption of the US politicians and their puppet masters have just turned every child, teenager, university student and common working man into total cynics about any move that any politician will make in the future in the name of his/her constituents.

No matter what the outcome, it is a bleak future indeed for those who were once happily ass raped (with rising prices, huge mortgages, college loans etc.) by the powers that be without having their noses rubbed in it.