Children...

[zeusbheld]

Obviously, the man is not an idiot. But, to affirm that he is "very intelligent" based only on his contribution to the forums might be a bit much.

what i find interesting is that all of this discussion of whether ZBH is/isn't retarded was initiated by ZBH painting *himself* as an idiot or a**hole, by obvious logical extension. jumpin jesus i hear my plans being dashed, i may not even medal in the special olympics.

The same could be said of Whiskers who could a very smart guy, but might not have Z's elocution skills.

or who might have just missed the point by not really reading what he hastily responded to, as often happens in internet forums.

[kennyke]

) People that don?t want children are usually self-centered, selfish or gay.

people who make sweeping generalizations are usually retarded or assholes :wink:

The 2 words in Kenny's quote, "are usually", tell me this is not a sweeping generalization. There is a retarded a**hole in this forum . . . but it's certainly not Kenny . . . who is an excellent father BTW . .

In fairness to ZBH though , I'm sure he wasn't implying anything towards kennyke . The fact that he originally left kennyke's name beside the initial "sweeping generalization" , might've been misunderstood by others though .

Phil, you're a good guy and I consider you a friend. You've got to realize that many good and respected TF members are getting bullied whenever they decide to comment in the forums. I for one refuse to be bullied . . . especially by "retarded assholes" who believe the forums are here just for them.

The forum is titled "Children" not "retards and assholes". Kenny has proven time and again to be a wonderful dad and anyone who pays any attention at all to the people on this site know this and where he's coming from.

hmm whiskers , why you care about it mate , dont worry about it i dont care either what people try to do or say about me , as long as i know what im doing its fine by me

[zeusbheld]

In general people tend to be far more blunt or downright rude and inconsiderate online than in real life. It is quite rare to see people admit they are wrong, even if proven so beyond any shread of doubt. To see someone apologize comes close to a miracle.

This kind of behavior would not fly in real life, though some may do so regardless.

generally so-called "real life" isn't any more real than net fora. it's all about glad-handing on the surface while back-stabbing underneath. generally i've found the nicest people to be the most two faced, but there's another sweeping generalization for you. but hey, this whole subtopic started with my indirectly declaring myself an idiot or a**hole.

[Wagner]

this whole subtopic started with my indirectly declaring myself an idiot or a**hole.

Well, let's clarify that then and get rid of the speculation.

Are you

A. Retarded a**hole

B. Idiot

C. Any combination of above

D. (fill in the space here)

Please explain your selection to us. Thank you.

[zeusbheld]

this whole subtopic started with my indirectly declaring myself an idiot or a**hole.

Well, let's clarify that then and get rid of the speculation.

Are you

A. Retarded a**hole

B. Idiot

C. Any combination of above

D. (fill in the space here)

Please explain your selection to us. Thank you.

the careful observer will note that i said *or* and i think the careful observer will also be able to figure out where i'd put myself, but the careful observer will also notice that i'd left it up to the reader to decide for themselves.

i know how adamantly readers try to avoid responsibility for reading, especially on TF, but that's as far as i'm gonna clarify.

[CocoaBrotha]

So now kids are supposed to bring parents constant joy? That is not the reason I had children. I had children because I wanted to raise smart, well-adjusted human beings who would do something good on this earth.

My children have made me a better human being. I've improved on my life skills because having a child forces you to become responsible even when you don't want to be. I have a connection to the younger generation that I never would have had had I remained childless.

I do feel sorry for those who decide not to have children because of the 'mess' or the fact that some might have to think about someone besides themselves once in awhile. They've missed the boat completely on what parenthood is all about.

I feel that I am living the full cycle of the human being. What we were meant to do. And if that is not a purpose, i don't know what is.

[kennyke]

So now kids are supposed to bring parents constant joy? That is not the reason I had children. I had children because I wanted to raise smart, well-adjusted human beings who would do something good on this earth.

My children have made me a better human being. I've improved on my life skills because having a child forces you to become responsible even when you don't want to be. I have a connection to the younger generation that I never would have had had I remained childless.

I do feel sorry for those who decide not to have children because of the 'mess' or the fact that some might have to think about someone besides themselves once in awhile. They've missed the boat completely on what parenthood is all about.

I feel that I am living the full cycle of the human being. What we were meant to do. And if that is not a purpose, i don't know what is.

cocoabrother , why feel sorry for the people who dont like to have children or dont want to have children , its a better option then have children and pu them away and let their parents or gradparent raise them , then they be better off without children

[KingSpartan78]

kenny I agree with you people who are not fit to be a dad shouldnt be my ex has a new kid and as soon as the dad knew she was pregnant he did a runner can't blame him for leaving her but that kid is innocent.

But i think you missed cocoa's point that kids enrich the life having a chiold is more of a fullfilling experience then a giving experience in my book too. What i have gained from being a dad is priceless. I even enjou being around other kids too. my kids new brother thinks im his dad and I wish I was too.

so in a few words your both right hehe

[kennyke]

kenny I agree with you people who are not fit to be a dad shouldnt be my ex has a new kid and as soon as the dad knew she was pregnant he did a runner can't blame him for leaving her but that kid is innocent.

But i think you missed cocoa's point that kids enrich the life having a chiold is more of a fullfilling experience then a giving experience in my book too. What i have gained from being a dad is priceless. I even enjou being around other kids too. my kids new brother thinks im his dad and I wish I was too.

so in a few words your both right hehe

i didnt miss that point at all i agree that it makes you a different and more easygoing person towards other kids also , but feeling sorry for people who not have kids because they not want there i dont see the point for feeling sorry for them thats all

[zeusbheld]

I feel that I am living the full cycle of the human being. What we were meant to do. And if that is not a purpose, i don't know what is.

interesting point.

genetically speaking, our one and only purpose is to have kids.

now, it's entirely possible to have other purposes but the purpose of our genes is the only purpose for the human species as a whole that's supported by empirical evidence.

[KingSpartan78]

kenny and its because we are kind and when we have a joy we would like others to share in that too, well at least thats how i feel.

It takes the bigger man to offer sympathy and understanding to people who dissagree with you then it does to only offer it to those you have a certain amount of empathy with.

[kennyke]

kenny and its because we are kind and when we have a joy we would like others to share in that too, well at least thats how i feel.

It takes the bigger man to offer sympathy and understanding to people who dissagree with you then it does to only offer it to those you have a certain amount of empathy with.

thats true and its fun as they always keep us busy also , when they are baby or when they go to school

[KingSpartan78]

yes its a very fullfilling past time indeed

[Wagner]

I do feel sorry for those who decide not to have children because of the 'mess' or the fact that some might have to think about someone besides themselves once in awhile. They've missed the boat completely on what parenthood is all about.

I feel that I am living the full cycle of the human being. What we were meant to do. And if that is not a purpose, i don't know what is.

Why do you say people who don't have kids don't think about others ? There are people beyond children to be considered. A relationship without kids is not somehow less or let alone irresponsible.

It does not take children to be unselfish. That is a very narrow-minded way to look at selfishness. I've been around and with kids pretty much all my life and I do understand what it's all about. I applaud and agree with your reasons for having kids but I don't accept your conclusion of not having kids equaling being selfish.

As ZBH said, genetically speaking we are to reproduce and that's it. However, unlike any other animals, we are capable of higher understanding and thinking, thus able to choose beyond what simple genetics tell us.

I respect everyone who has chosen to raise children, and even more those who didn't choose to but nevertheless do so with flying colors. I do not respect people who simply choose to have kids but don't bother raising them.

I just don't accept being told I'm selfish, letalone gay, immature, coward or emotionally dysfunctional because I have chosen not to.

Live and let live, folks. Have respect for people's right to choose how to live their lives, instead of looking down on those who make choices different from yours.

[zeusbheld]

I do feel sorry for those who decide not to have children because of the 'mess' or the fact that some might have to think about someone besides themselves once in awhile. They've missed the boat completely on what parenthood is all about.

I feel that I am living the full cycle of the human being. What we were meant to do. And if that is not a purpose, i don't know what is.

Why do you say people who don't have kids don't think about others ? There are people beyond children to be considered. A relationship without kids is not somehow less or let alone irresponsible.

correct me if i'm wrong but i believe Mother Theresa didn't have kids. now, some might suggest that Mother Theresa was a flawed human being, and there may be evidence to back that up. However, i do believe that there is plenty of evidence that she did indeed care about others.

i do think, (not to put words in his mouth but i will anyway) that CB was saying that lifestyle-wise, it's possible to be self-absorbed (regardless of whether you have devoted your life to helping others)... but it ain't possible when you have kids. CB also implied that he was not talking about everyone who chooses not to have kids, just the ones who decide not to because of the "mess" or inconvenience. that was my reading of it anyway.

i suspect that sort of statement is a bit of a hot-button for you based on the rest of your post, and particularly that bit quoted just below. i think CB's post was more nuanced than that.

I just don't accept being told I'm selfish, letalone gay, immature, coward or emotionally dysfunctional because I have chosen not to.

yes everyone knows that gayness has nothing to do with whether or not one chooses to have children, and everything to do with whether one supports Manchester United (and/or collects strappy Jimmy Choo high heels).

[KingSpartan78]

yes everyone knows that gayness has nothing to do with whether or not one chooses to have children, and everything to do with whether one supports Manchester United (and/or collects strappy Jimmy Choo high heels).

That was pretty much copy and pasted from collins concise dictionary right?

[luckyphil247]

can you f*cking get it yet, or are you as stupid as you're pretending to be? and whiskers, i may have the a**hole part nailed down but you sure has sh*t have made a serious run my retard crown with this one. keep up the work, you'll lock down the gold medal.

Quote from "how to win friends and influence people" ???

You could've just left it at .....

did you f*cking read Kenny's post????? apparently not.

it should be f*cking obvious to anyone with a brain--which apparently rules out most of TF---that Kenny was REBUTTING the sweeping generalization in question, NOT MAKING IT. SO IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT KENNY THAT IS SAYING PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT CHILDREN ARE SELF CENTERED OR GAY ETC..

Yes , it would be obvious ASSUMING they read kennyke's post .

But to those who JUST read the following.....

) People that don?t want children are usually self-centered, selfish or gay.

people who make sweeping generalizations are usually retarded or assholes :wink:

well , they could easily get the wrong idea and think that you were having a go at Kenny ( even though your wink at the end may suggest otherwise ) . I suspect Whiskers was one of them and reacted accordingly.

Not everybody reads a thread from the start , some people just jump on . That doesn't make anyone stupid , but if so ; I'm sure most of us are stupid sometimes .

You've never clicked on a thread and responded to a post without reading previous pages ???

[CocoaBrotha]

This article certainly sparked heated debate. Wow.

I think that there is one thing that today's global society lacks: RESPECT. Honestly, this ain't a black and white topic. People have different reasons/motives for having/adopting children or remaining childfree. In my ealier post I mentioned that I felt sorry for people who decide to not have children because of either being selfish/self centered?, I didn't think with a clear head. It is none of my business to judge nor anyone.

In hindsight? Honestly?, are those that disagree truly harming you? No. People come in all forms, some wonderful, some so-so, and others are just plain old horrible.

Everybody exists for a reason, some people opt to have a child or adopt and subsequently raise children, others choose to not become parents. What it comes down to is: It is EACH individuals VERY PERSONAL decision. To each their own and hopefully everybody is content with their decision if not that is a shame but people made the decision and live with it. And by living with it I mean: Do the absolute best you are capable of in your given situation, no matter what it may be.

[zeusbheld]

yes everyone knows that gayness has nothing to do with whether or not one chooses to have children, and everything to do with whether one supports Manchester United (and/or collects strappy Jimmy Choo high heels).

That was pretty much copy and pasted from collins concise dictionary right?

the Oxford English Dictionary. it's even in the concise edition.

[zeusbheld]

This article certainly sparked heated debate. Wow.

I think that there is one thing that today's global society lacks: RESPECT.

DISAGREE (but not without shades of grey). keep in mind that this is a general purpose rant and definitely not directed at your post specifically, but:

[rant] today's global society consists of everyone jacking each other off to the tune of "everyone has an opinion, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs."

it's one big circle jerk. and what is a circle jerk made of? WANKERS.

THERE IS TOO MUCH RESPECT AND NOT ENOUGH THINKING.

i swear most of the 'people' littering this planet make the average lemming look like a free thinker.

EVERY time i see someone actually think something through on their own without relying on spoon-fed ideology or assumptions i want to send 'em a thank you note.

fortunately for me i'm not gonna run outta stamps any time soon. [/rant]

To each their own and hopefully everybody is content with their decision

amen.

[eagle]

I might just have one yet. Having kids is personal choice ...or an accident :shock:

[zeusbheld]

can you f*cking get it yet, or are you as stupid as you're pretending to be? and whiskers, i may have the a**hole part nailed down but you sure has sh*t have made a serious run my retard crown with this one. keep up the work, you'll lock down the gold medal.

Quote from "how to win friends and influence people" ???

You could've just left it at .....

did you f*cking read Kenny's post????? apparently not.

whereas having a go at someone over something they didn't actually say is straight out of Dale ******* Carnegie.

OH WAIT, NEVER MIND. i forgot, whiskers is "nice"... hypocrisy is alright if you're nice. it's alright to arbitrarily be a prick if you're a prick only toward people who aren't "nice." and because he's so "nice" i guess i'm supposed smile at his endearing charms and say "that Whiskers. What a character. it's all good because he's SO "NICE.""

as opposed to oh, i don't know, responding IN KIND? even though i didn't actually say anything worse TO him ABOUT him than i also said about myself?

point taken. (in fantasyland, maybe. not on Earth, and not by me even in your fantasyland)

it should be f*cking obvious to anyone with a brain--which apparently rules out most of TF---that Kenny was REBUTTING the sweeping generalization in question, NOT MAKING IT. SO IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT KENNY THAT IS SAYING PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT CHILDREN ARE SELF CENTERED OR GAY ETC..

Yes , it would be obvious ASSUMING they read kennyke's post .

But to those who JUST read the following.....

) People that don?t want children are usually self-centered, selfish or gay.

people who make sweeping generalizations are usually retarded or assholes :wink:

well , they could easily get the wrong idea and think that you were having a go at Kenny ( even though your wink at the end may suggest otherwise ) . I suspect Whiskers was one of them and reacted accordingly.

Not everybody reads a thread from the start , some people just jump on . That doesn't make anyone stupid , but if so ; I'm sure most of us are stupid sometimes .

yet strangely, you don't seem to object to *him* calling *me* a retarded a**hole. yet even more strangely *i* had read and understood Kennyke's post.

shame on me i should know better. dear, old beloved whiskers shouldn't be expected to be responsible for his own actions, because he's "nice". and if he's not "nice" he must have some reason.

well sorry, no thanks, superficiality, inattentiveness, bias and hypocrisy are not qualities i look for in a judge, therefore i don't feel obligated to accept his judgment, sorry.

You've never clicked on a thread and responded to a post without reading previous pages ???

dearest Pollyanna, you just run out and find even one example where i have misinterpreted a post, was made aware of that, and refused to acknowledge my error.

just one.

but no, you won't even bother to look. because "NICE" is more important than "HONEST." therefore, whiskers should be cut some slack.

yeah, right. sadly, i'm not Julie Andrews, so **** that.

it's not the first time and won't be the last that he jumps to conclusions JUST because a post was made by me, and because in his simplistic universe "NICE" is all there is, and he's decided i'm not "NICE". it won't be the last. yet strangely, i don't value "NICE." i value "HONEST" and shall respond accordingly.

have a nice day, and thanks for your efforts. mediation is a thankless job.

[eagle]

Zeus is not Julie Andrews :shock: :shock:

[zeusbheld]

Zeus is not Julie Andrews :shock: :shock:

this in no way reflects on the existence of santa claus or the easter bunny or weapons of mass destruction in iraq or any other fairy tale critter.

[luckyphil247]

Kenny may very well be the nicest man ever, I really have no idea. However for most people he is what he posts here and to that people react. If he wishes to be considered a great dad, then he should strive to reflect that in his posts.

A Classic !!!

Though , I think you hit the sweet spot with the following (replying to WHISKERS).....

Do I know you ? No. For all I know you may be a very nice person but I form my opinion based on what you say and do on TF. As skewed as it may be. That is the nature of a discussion forum. Problems start when people confuse a forum with real life. You don't seem to know the difference anymore.

I'm picturing you saying these exact words into the mirror a-la Robert DeNiro .....

Do I know you ? Do I know you ? Do I know you ? No . For all I know you may be a very nice person .....