LakeGeneve Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 If you want honest advice then I would say you are taking a big risk to be going to Thailand right now. The situation is very very dangerous. At any moment it could all turn very very ugly and I am talking third world -nasty and dangerous. It is not at all so unlikely now. It is actually the way things are heading and so you would be flying into a virtual war zone or civil war within weeks or months. All those things you love about Thailand will no longer be the case [to the same degree anyway] and the reasons for you going there may not be valid anymore before too long. Just wait until after xmass and consider going in mid or late Jan. Just very risky now I think? I stand by this comment fully and refer you to the countless articles and reports worldwide concerning the situation in Thailand- plus maybe make a few phone calls to some people in Thailand! Thanks mate. Just don't forget to let those of us in Thailand know when that nasty, dangerous civil war is about to hit in the next few weeks!!! :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 other countries' Civil Aviation Authorities have nothing to do with the airport being allowed to open. As someone rightly posted it is to do with the landing in those countries. So a FAA official will give green light for flights to US, CAA for flights to UK etc. General go ahead will be given by IATA jointly with the Thai Civil Aviation Authority. IATA is the only external agency that can veto the airport opening for international traffic. The civil authority can give go ahead for domestic flights on its own. As it seems obvious that things like ATC are working fine (given the cargo flights which left today) what may be seen is a gradual reopening. I would be prepared to bet that there are some flights leaving on Friday (would also bet they will be Thai carrier flights only) The big question of course is how much, if any, damage has been done to internal systems for things like security, check in etc. Given that the protesters seem to have not set out to damage anything (other than through the wear and tear of occupying the space) or to empty any of the shops, this could mean that damage is minimal or non existent. Thus, with IATA's go ahead, they could certainly start small and increase. I would hope that a precondition from IATA is increased security around the airport to ensure there is no reoccurence, though given the ineptitude shown first time around, would be interested to see what assurances could be given. Perhasp ones direct from PAD leadership saying they will be good little girls and boys from now on?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeGeneve Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 It's pretty scary out there...I haven't left my house in days! I know what you mean! All those bloody Xmas decorations have gone up along with the santa paraphernalia and jiggle bells tunes! The tree at Central World is much bigger and you can't even escape the Xmas virus in the suburban centres. Seems to get worse every year. Soon we will get used to seeing thai kids on santas lap..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 It's pretty scary out there...I haven't left my house in days! I know what you mean! All those bloody Xmas decorations have gone up along with the santa paraphernalia and jiggle bells tunes! The tree at Central World is much bigger and you can't even escape the Xmas virus in the suburban centres. Seems to get worse every year. Soon we will get used to seeing thai kids on santas lap..... Interesting thought; will Santa dress in neutral colours this year to prevent attacks from disgruntled PAD supporters who know they've been very naughty and are therefore receiving sweet hee haw for Xmas?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeGeneve Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 It's pretty scary out there...I haven't left my house in days! I know what you mean! All those bloody Xmas decorations have gone up along with the santa paraphernalia and jiggle bells tunes! The tree at Central World is much bigger and you can't even escape the Xmas virus in the suburban centres. Seems to get worse every year. Soon we will get used to seeing thai kids on santas lap..... Interesting thought; will Santa dress in neutral colours this year to prevent attacks from disgruntled PAD supporters who know they've been very naughty and are therefore receiving sweet hee haw for Xmas?? Well I can tell you that I went to have a look at the DAAD/Truth Today rally at City Hall tonight for an hour (I'll post pics tomorrow) and was requested about 8 times to buy a santa hat with flashing lights for 50 baht. I did decline of course, being neither a santa supporter nor bald! (I couldn't count how many times I was offered a red pok-pok clapper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 It's pretty scary out there...I haven't left my house in days! I know what you mean! All those bloody Xmas decorations have gone up along with the santa paraphernalia and jiggle bells tunes! The tree at Central World is much bigger and you can't even escape the Xmas virus in the suburban centres. Seems to get worse every year. Soon we will get used to seeing thai kids on santas lap..... Interesting thought; will Santa dress in neutral colours this year to prevent attacks from disgruntled PAD supporters who know they've been very naughty and are therefore receiving sweet hee haw for Xmas?? Well I can tell you that I went to have a look at the DAAD/Truth Today rally at City Hall tonight for an hour (I'll post pics tomorrow) and was requested about 8 times to buy a santa hat with flashing lights for 50 baht. I did decline of course, being neither a santa supporter nor bald! (I couldn't count how many times I was offered a red pok-pok clapper). 50 baht per hat you say??? :idea: Well I can sell those at 3 or 4 GBP a pop over here, so if you can get 10,000 at wholesale price of say 15 baht, ship them over by next Monday, then its split the profits time!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 I know nothing on the subject but here is a few tid bits of info in this extract from the Nation. Interestingly, it claims that there were several flights tonight (moving empty planes I guess?); empty planes have been moving for a couple of days; they might be charter planes or cargo planes though. cargo may start *very* soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 It's pretty scary out there...I haven't left my house in days! i know, right? i mean, has the supply of imported foods like totally been screwed or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 other countries' Civil Aviation Authorities have nothing to do with the airport being allowed to open. As someone rightly posted it is to do with the landing in those countries. So a FAA official will give green light for flights to US, CAA for flights to UK etc. if i understand it correctly many non-US airlines suck up to the FAA if they have connecting flights to the US, etc; given that the FAA has the power to 86 them from the entire united states. Thus, with IATA's go ahead, they could certainly start small and increase. I would hope that a precondition from IATA is increased security around the airport to ensure there is no reoccurence, though given the ineptitude shown first time around, would be interested to see what assurances could be given. Perhasp ones direct from PAD leadership saying they will be good little girls and boys from now on?? i'd expect regional airlines, like dare asia, to start first. i wouldn't be surprised if cargo has started already (the tower etc has to be operational or the 90 or so empty planes would not have been able to leave). as for PAD making assurances, do you think given the utterly contradictory statements they've been making, that would be anything but meaningless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJTX Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 if i understand it correctly many non-US airlines suck up to the FAA if they have connecting flights to the US, etc; given that the FAA has the power to 86 them from the entire united states. Have you ever flown from Delhi to Chicago :shock: First you go through Indian security, then you go through additional airline security. Airline security hand checks all of your carry-on luggage, they hand search you, they make you turn your laptop on. Why? The US doesn't trust Indian airport security. :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 if i understand it correctly many non-US airlines suck up to the FAA if they have connecting flights to the US, etc; given that the FAA has the power to 86 them from the entire united states. Have you ever flown from Delhi to Chicago :shock: First you go through Indian security, then you go through additional airline security. Airline security hand checks all of your carry-on luggage, they hand search you, they make you turn your laptop on. Why? The US doesn't trust Indian airport security. :shock: similar in Bombay (well before recent events). in case you ever wondered why you have to go through security again when you change planes, well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Oh Zeus...I thought you would have detected the absolute toungue in cheekness of my 'pad assurances' statement!!! And yes, what you say basically parallels what I mentioned. FAA have the power to blacklist any airline flying into US territory, or indeed any flights from a particular airport. Rembering of course it's not just about landing at US airport, but what could happen if plane taken over mid flight. Definitely think it will be mainly Asian flights to start, with perhaps European and US flights sometime between start of next week and 15th December. There were cargo flights today (not just empty ones) which indicate no damage had been done to ATC or any other essential control systems. The next 24 - 48 hours will determine what, if any, damage has been done to ground based systems like security and check in systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 if i understand it correctly many non-US airlines suck up to the FAA if they have connecting flights to the US, etc; given that the FAA has the power to 86 them from the entire united states. Have you ever flown from Delhi to Chicago :shock: First you go through Indian security, then you go through additional airline security. Airline security hand checks all of your carry-on luggage, they hand search you, they make you turn your laptop on. Why? The US doesn't trust Indian airport security. :shock: Given the instability of that region and the possibility of terrorists entering via that route, it is hardly surprising there is a system of double checks. Could not see similar happening for Thailand to US, as SE Asia not a known conduit for extremist entry to US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJTX Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 There were cargo flights today (not just empty ones) which indicate no damage had been done to ATC or any other essential control systems. Other than the passengers, what's the difference in allowing one (freight) versus the other (passenger) type of flights? A plane is a plane... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 There were cargo flights today (not just empty ones) which indicate no damage had been done to ATC or any other essential control systems. Other than the passengers, what's the difference in allowing one (freight) versus the other (passenger) type of flights? A plane is a plane... The cargo flights will only have been local (well Asia local) The difference is; a lot of crates don't have to get a taxi to the airport, check in their luggage, get a boarding pass, go through customs and security, make a mad last dash to Duty Free for 200 fags and 2 liters of vodka, go to the toilet, have something to eat, phone Auntie Mildred to say the plane is delayed...you get the idea?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJTX Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 There were cargo flights today (not just empty ones) which indicate no damage had been done to ATC or any other essential control systems. Other than the passengers, what's the difference in allowing one (freight) versus the other (passenger) type of flights? A plane is a plane... The cargo flights will only have been local (well Asia local) The difference is; a lot of crates don't have to get a taxi to the airport, check in their luggage, get a boarding pass, go through customs and security, make a mad last dash to Duty Free for 200 fags and 2 liters of vodka, go to the toilet, have something to eat, phone Auntie Mildred to say the plane is delayed...you get the idea?? Or in short - takes a long time to count all of the bottles at the King Powers stores. On second thought, maybe it won't take long at all :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 There were cargo flights today (not just empty ones) which indicate no damage had been done to ATC or any other essential control systems. Other than the passengers, what's the difference in allowing one (freight) versus the other (passenger) type of flights? A plane is a plane... The cargo flights will only have been local (well Asia local) The difference is; a lot of crates don't have to get a taxi to the airport, check in their luggage, get a boarding pass, go through customs and security, make a mad last dash to Duty Free for 200 fags and 2 liters of vodka, go to the toilet, have something to eat, phone Auntie Mildred to say the plane is delayed...you get the idea?? Or in short - takes a long time to count all of the bottles at the King Powers stores. On second thought, maybe it won't take long at all :shock: apparently none of the stores have been touched; BBC guy was in there live this afternoon. No, just a lot more complicated to get load of passengers processed than some crates. All the check in systems need to be checked and rebooted, security etc etc. Thats why I think there will be partial opening for some carriers by weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 There were cargo flights today (not just empty ones) which indicate no damage had been done to ATC or any other essential control systems. Other than the passengers, what's the difference in allowing one (freight) versus the other (passenger) type of flights? A plane is a plane... terrorism is based on that root word, terror. while a cargo plane might make a good bomb, they're not too easy to hijack, and blowing one up in mid air is not going to frighten a lot of people beyond cargo plane pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJTX Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 There were cargo flights today (not just empty ones) which indicate no damage had been done to ATC or any other essential control systems. Other than the passengers, what's the difference in allowing one (freight) versus the other (passenger) type of flights? A plane is a plane... terrorism is based on that root word, terror. while a cargo plane might make a good bomb, they're not too easy to hijack, and blowing one up in mid air is not going to frighten a lot of people beyond cargo plane pilots. Your premise seems to be that the only people terrorised are passengers, and that using a plane as a bomb is secondary. While no doubt people on a hijacked plane are in a terror situation, is a cargo plane used as a bomb any less? And, if security at the airport is questionalbe, why would a cargo plane not be easy to hijack. If security is an issue, it should be an issue for everytrhing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 There were cargo flights today (not just empty ones) which indicate no damage had been done to ATC or any other essential control systems. Other than the passengers, what's the difference in allowing one (freight) versus the other (passenger) type of flights? A plane is a plane... terrorism is based on that root word, terror. while a cargo plane might make a good bomb, they're not too easy to hijack, and blowing one up in mid air is not going to frighten a lot of people beyond cargo plane pilots. Your premise seems to be that the only people terrorised are passengers, and that using a plane as a bomb is secondary. While no doubt people on a hijacked plane are in a terror situation, is a cargo plane used as a bomb any less? And, if security at the airport is questionalbe, why would a cargo plane not be easy to hijack. If security is an issue, it should be an issue for everytrhing. a cargo plane used as a bomb is unlikely to explode near anyone except airport personnel. a bomb on a subway train would be far more effective. the point of terrorism (and this premise is based on the words of terrorists) is primarily to inspire fear. seeing images of gunman in the Taj is jarring to me; the idea that the Lao handbag i sent my mum for christmas may explode on a runway is only terrifying to airline or airport personnel and those with an inordinate fondness for air cargo. a cargo plane wouldn't be easy to hijack because you can't pretend to be a passenger, and the hijacker would have to be MUCH better trained than the 9/11 hijackers in order to be able to take off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbroker Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 If you want honest advice then I would say you are taking a big risk to be going to Thailand right now. The situation is very very dangerous. At any moment it could all turn very very ugly and I am talking third world -nasty and dangerous. It is not at all so unlikely now. It is actually the way things are heading and so you would be flying into a virtual war zone or civil war within weeks or months. All those things you love about Thailand will no longer be the case [to the same degree anyway] and the reasons for you going there may not be valid anymore before too long. Just wait until after xmass and consider going in mid or late Jan. Just very risky now I think? I stand by this comment fully and refer you to the countless articles and reports worldwide concerning the situation in Thailand- plus maybe make a few phone calls to some people in Thailand! Thanks mate. Just don't forget to let those of us in Thailand know when that nasty, dangerous civil war is about to hit in the next few weeks!!! :roll: Maybe you're right. After all, the PM resigned and PAD says it got what it wanted and has agreed to leave the airport. Planes should be flying in and out within a few short days. Same same as before like nothing happened. On the other hand.... Something did happen; didn't it, "Mate?" Correct me if wrong but didn't I read 7 people died and a couple dozen or more were injured seriously enough to warrant hospital time due to several detonated bombs during this "siege?" Or don't those 7 dead and dozens injured matter? Couldn't those numbers have inflated more drastically under more dire/intense circumstances? Thank heaven they didn't; but you're suggesting this is not a possibility? Now I know I'm sitting here 8000 miles from the action, but why don't you do yourselves a favor and try to think out your Thai boxes for a moment? 19 coups (now effectively 20 and not "bloodless" this time) in what? 70, 80 years? Instead of looking at the effects (coups, unrest, AKA the Thai "Democratic Experiment," etc.) try looking at the cause. This has far less to do with the king, royal family, birthdays, Shinawatra, his brother in law, political parties, the court, the ever changing constitution, the ever morphing laws and more to do with the enormous knowledge gap between economic classes there. Add in a generous supply of ingrained, institutional, systemic corruption and you have the makings of additional unrest at some future point. Like a sealed pot stoked by relentless flames underneath. Maybe not "the next few weeks" but does anyone really think this scenario has seen its conclusion? The yellow shirts are now going to kiss and make up with the red shirts and do a square dance? I hope so; but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJTX Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Suvarnabhumi siege ends By The Nation Published on December 3, 2008 Rush to get airport functional again. PAD leaves, claiming 'final battle' won as Somchai no longer PM People's Alliance for Democracy followers last night started bidding farewell to Suvarnabhumi Airport, bringing an end to their eight-day siege that has caused incalculable damage to the country and the economy. Airport authorities are now rushing to reopen the regional aviation hub, shuttered since it was hijacked on November 25. Serirat Pasutanond, acting president of Airports of Thailand (AOT), said earlier that Suvarnabhumi could be officially reopened to passenger flights on December 15, but after the PAD began to vacate the premises, he said resumption of services would depend on inspections of the extent of damage to systems and facilities. Claiming to have won their "final battle", the government opponents made their exit after the Constitution Court disbanded the People Power Party and two other government coalition partners - automatically dismissing Somchai Wongsawat as prime minister in the process. So PAD is claiming to have won their final battle. Maybe they can explain what taking over the two airports had to do with the court's ruling. :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyoiy Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Cargo is probably can be running before full operation... Im just guessing coz there are many goods/stuff await there to be sent... I think that if anyone had to get somewhere quick then the best bet is to send yourself by cargo! (Pack an oxygen tank and some warm clothes for the journey!) :evil: In case you were serious and couldn't picture why I said so then pls see below.. it sounds funny but make sense. (Thx Iain!) :evil: There were cargo flights today (not just empty ones) which indicate no damage had been done to ATC or any other essential control systems. Other than the passengers, what's the difference in allowing one (freight) versus the other (passenger) type of flights? A plane is a plane... The cargo flights will only have been local (well Asia local) The difference is; a lot of crates don't have to get a taxi to the airport, check in their luggage, get a boarding pass, go through customs and security, make a mad last dash to Duty Free for 200 fags and 2 liters of vodka, go to the toilet, have something to eat, phone Auntie Mildred to say the plane is delayed...you get the idea?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Cargo is probably can be running before full operation... Im just guessing coz there are many goods/stuff await there to be sent... I think that if anyone had to get somewhere quick then the best bet is to send yourself by cargo! (Pack an oxygen tank and some warm clothes for the journey!) :evil: In case you were serious and couldn't picture why I said so then pls see below.. it sounds funny but make sense. (Thx Iain!) :evil: There were cargo flights today (not just empty ones) which indicate no damage had been done to ATC or any other essential control systems. Other than the passengers, what's the difference in allowing one (freight) versus the other (passenger) type of flights? A plane is a plane... The cargo flights will only have been local (well Asia local) The difference is; a lot of crates don't have to get a taxi to the airport, check in their luggage, get a boarding pass, go through customs and security, make a mad last dash to Duty Free for 200 fags and 2 liters of vodka, go to the toilet, have something to eat, phone Auntie Mildred to say the plane is delayed...you get the idea?? :?: :?: :?: why am I getting the scary devil faces???? Although I made the answer humorous, it was to point out the huge difference between being able to start shifting cargo again and shifting passengers!! Sorry baby!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyoiy Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 :?: :?: :?: why am I getting the scary devil faces???? Although I made the answer humorous, it was to point out the huge difference between being able to start shifting cargo again and shifting passengers!! Sorry baby!! Its not for you!! I really mean it when I said thank you to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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