If you have not heard there has been a contraversy throughout the world over the actions of one American.  What else is new, Americans do things everyday that is contraversial, but in this case this action is not only contraversial, but also dangerous.  I am talking about the idiot in Florida and his congregation of 50 idiot followers who think it is a good idea to thumb their nose at a billion plus muslims around the world.  As the commanding general of US forces in Afghanistan recently said that this act will in fact make life more dangerous for American troops in Afghanistan and American Expats around the world.  When I first heard about this, then my first reaction was for someone to shoot this idiot please.  That is my reaction as an officer from the Army who simply wants to protect his troops and win a very difficult war.  I viewed this person as nothing more than an enemy, an enemy to the cause for which I have spent two years of my life fighting for. 

Then after a while I began to realize that as an American, I have a certain set of values and one of those is freedom of speech and freedom of expression.  I realized that all those years in Iraq I spent fighting for the freedom of the Iraqi people, so that they could have the same rights that I possess.  These rights where the cause, so I began to change my ideas.  I think that as an American, we all know that this guy should not burn the quran as he is telling the world he is going to do, but he has a right to do it.  I for one can't pick and choose what American gets those rights and when they get them, even if it is for the good of the country.  These are rights that this person has, that being said, it would be nice if the rest of the people around him, who disagree with him also protests in support of muslims around the world.  If he has a right to his freedom of expression then I have a right to mine.  That is why I think it would be a good idea on the same day that he wants to burn the quran, the rest of us should practice a better form of diplomacy and become friends with a muslim.  It does not matter where you are from, or what flag you salute to, this is something that we should all practice and not just on this day, but everyday.  Perhaps, we can create a new brand of diplomacy, that can lead to lasting peace around the world.  So on September 11, the day the towers fell and all Americans love to hate the muslim world, I am asking my American brotheren not to hate, but to become friends with a muslim.

with rights come responsibilities .... just because u have the right to burn the quran/bible/torah doesn't mean u should excerise that right !!! also his reasons for doing us r dumb as **** .... bit like himself !!!

i mean burning the quran isn't really going to make miltant/extreme muslims any less miltant/extreme, but it should as hell is going to piss off a lot of more tolerant/moderate muslims ... which i suspect is his true intention.

although i don't believe jesus was the son of god, he seemed to be a good, decent human being .... i just wonder what he would make of some of the actions being carried out in "his" name !!!

I agree with you 100% and I also believe that jesus would not approve of this.

I'm not so sure if this guy has the right to burn the quran. I don't know exactly about US laws but in Europe, vilification of religious beliefs is punishable by law. And what more would be a vilification than publicly burning the holiest book of a religion? Apart of the fact that these guys have a complete lack of respect, tact, tolerance, diplomacy and other virtues in this regard that we would expect people of the 21st century would have.

It's really sad to know that a bunch of 50 extremists are able to provoke a worldwide outcry.

its just WRONG ( burn th book i mean )

As an American he does have the right to free speach, and expression of religious beliefs. He also has to take responsibility for his actions.

Just as those Muslims in NYC have an American right to build their community center, he has his same rights, but both have to take responsibility for their actions. If someone dies because of either of their actions, then they, as the instigators of those deaths, have to take responsibility for the actions they perpetrated.

I seriously doubt that building the community center in NYC will lead to any deaths, unless they are related to job accidents in the actual construction, but his action will, and has been promised, to lead to deaths because of what he does in his burning of the Koran he has, and those sent to him.

NGO's in Afganistan have been warned that if he carries out his actions there will be death as a direct result of his burning, and this has happened in the past when the Koran has been desicrated, so it's not an idle threat. Now the question is, should he be arrested, and convicted for conspiracy to incite murder if anyone is killed because of his actions?

It is still not known how the fire department in his town will handle it. He was refused a permit to burn when he applied for one.

kaunitz: Fortunately in america we have seperation of church and state, which by definition would preclude us from the same law that you mentioned in Europe. We also have freedom of speech, but there are a few limitations if your speech causes harm to others then you are responsible for that harm. In other words you can't yell fire in a crowded theater unless there is literally a fire. In this case, I doubt that anyone will be able to conclusively say that his actions led to anyone being injured due to the fact that the military was already fighting with extremist anyway, but I think that common sense wil lead a reasonable person to believe that the enemy is going to use this as a rallying cry to rally the troops against us.

This should have never made it in the media to begin with. This was some pretty petty reporting for the sake of selling newspapers. There are a lot of crazy people out there are we going to report everything they say for news. This guy is crazy and he should not even have a voice, the media should have never reported anything he said.

Jared: Well, also in Europe, church and state are separated (at least officially, although the church in several countries, e.g. Greece, Poland, Spain is still very influential). I think it is more the difference in approaching the word freedom. As I see it from our discussion (please correct me if I am wrong), the law in the US gives you the freedom of your expression as long as it does not incite any other unlawful action whereas in Europe already actions that might lead to such consequences are forbidden, also to protect people's or groups' immaterial values. Would that be a correct summary in a nutshell?

Yep, this is the big "problem" with the media all over the free world: The right of information is held up highly (and this is a good move) but there are some things that better would be left unreported. Thing now is for a media guy: Even if I know that this could lead to troubles, if I don't publish it, another one will do and everybody will ask me why I didn't. So I will have it on the newsflash, too......

I think that would be correct, but when you are talking about libel and defamation it is not a criminal act and you must also show malice if the person you are defaming is either a person in the public eye or a product or asset. If you can meet both of these standards, then you can gain compensation for losses due to the slanderous speech.

I would probably agree with most that their needs to be some limitations of freedom of speech, but that is also a slippery slope that you can really abuse. In addition, who has the right to decide what is allowable speech and what is not. In America, we believe in the Tyranny of the Majority, which is the basis for our persuit of minority rights. In addition, a majority of the people have an intense distrust of government, which comes from our founding through our short history. This is another fundemental difference between the US and Europe. We were founded by outcast from european society that left europe to escape persecution from the government, which in part is where all this comes from. I would say, that although we have a common ancenstral pool, the ideals associated with government between the US and europeans are very different, but our since of right and wrong are not as different as you think.

ban all these religions, when well ppl open their eyes, religions are made to suppress ppl. the church is one of the biggest organized crime networks in the world.

Wicked: They tried it in the Soviet Union and in Albania - didn't work either! Especially in the countries of the former USSR, there are now not only official religions but obscure sects getting stronger and stronger.

only to re-emphasize the obvious:

yes in the US they have the right to do this...no, if and or buts...

strangely the local Fire department may limit this demonstration because the city of Gainesville did not issue them a "burning permit and the INK is judged to be a hazardous material (hhahhaha....tree-hugger to the rescue); therefore apparently the Fire Dept. will be nearby to put of the literal fire --one can only hope.

this group (it is lead by one idiot) are simply fools;

cannot post a 10 minute long NBC interview ...but these guys have no clue.

However --- they are getting their 15 minutes of fame and attention

maybe that is what it is all about ( without the "what would Jesus or Mohamed say" questions)

yes with global communications as they are---- any squeak from a mouse can make it to your headlines too!

so rational (????) peoples must take these "small" actions with a grain of salt.....

I realize people around the world do not understand the extent or details of freedom-- laws--- religion leadership--- and governmental controls as they truly are ( not many American do either) LOL .

------ look at Kaunitz discussion above (& I know Kaunitz is an educated and thoughtful guy)

---- I don't understand Thai property Laws

------ I explained to a Thai this weekend that YES in 99% percent of the cases anyone in our country can open a business of any kind, including foreign nationals...there are not laws precluding that right.

MY point is that any reasonable Muslim should see this as an isolated NUT-Job

Unfortunately ------ many will not

.....NOR will many of their religious leaders look at the Danish Cartoon reaction

And that is my complaint toward Islam;

sorry you're hyper-sensitive and you over-react and your own actions are at least every bit as intolerant.

these guys are an abomination pure and simple I hope it doesn't take place

It has been condemned I hope Islam can recognise the difference

(in a more social sense) I wonder if English Bob and Dr. Lowlife will be attending .......hahahhaha

we have the right to do many things, but sometimes we just shouldnt do it!!!!!!

FYI as I reference above---> here the full interview if anyone is interested

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#39063421

(hope the 30 commercial did not come through)

---if this wasn't such a serious issue it might be a sit-com on TV

I find it sad that the press give this ***** the time of day... and leave a large chunk of the blame at their feet.

the guy has 50 followers and preaches in a shed!!!

He is an ass bu tthe media is a bigger ass!

Mind you; did see one headline that was right out of Monty Python;

TERRY JONES DENOUNCED BY PALIN

: )

Well, it looks like this is just a blackmail stunt to get that Imam to move the moscue that is going to be built close to ground zero. Before, I know that most americans was against the proposed mosque building, my guess is now they will support it. I hope that Americans do not move the opposite way of what i think and make this guy a national hero.

Actually Jared.... Most Americans hardly notice the NYC Masque issue outside of the NYC area and at that most people think it is only insensitive, hardly anything that will elevate this nut-job into hero status

...hell the guy hadn't even mentioned the Masque location until late this afternoon

-- and the Iman has said that its location was never a bargaining point... the guy is shooting from the hip... every interview of this guy reveals he is lame...

this will not affect anything getting built in NYC ... just added to the circus

Thank you for correcting my news. I am glad that this will not change anything, it would be hard to believe that this nut job could hold the country and the principles, almost all Americans hold dear, hostage. I agree this is a circus spawned by an under educated git and he has changed his story as the wind changes. As far as most Americans hardly noticing the NYC Mosque, I would disagree with you on that. Where I am from down south in Fox News country it is big news, but I agree that most people think it is simply insensitive and nothing more. Believe it or not, most southerners at least in east Tennessee are fairly Tolerant of foreign ideas, so long as you don't try to burn down their church they will accept you. Still that being said, they do think it is insensitive stunt performed by the Muslims to build this mosque close to ground zero. They are not ready to go to war over it, but if there is a way to stop it, they will be supportive of that.

Listen folks, I think there was some points made here that are valid. First this event goes to show that any faith has their fair share of nuts. There is a lesson to be learned here too, the moderates are not the problem it is the radicals, so kids lesson for the day, to much of anything is never good, that includes TF. That being said all you TFers get a life, it is finally friday, so go out and have a good time.

Final thing tomorrow is September 11, so go out and try to make friends with a muslim. Just because this situation is calmed down for the moment, does not mean that we cannot make this world a more peaceful place through friendship.