is there a God?

[eagle]

Scartfug.

Lets keep it simple.

This is a shagging site. Guys only 'debate' with you to score points in the shagging game. You are a pretty easy target and you are fair game. We will poke fun at you and play with you because we can and we will destroy your absurd faith theories until the cows come home simply to impress the girls.

You have faith in your own beliefs, however illogical or absurd. Go for it. But dont be surprised if we expose you as an emotional delinquent. When I first saw your comments I thought you were taking the piss. Now I realise that you are serious.

While you think you are doing God's work bear in mind that you are really aiding and abating the devil.

I agree its ****ed to debate at this point but impress the girls, I doubt it. They roll there eyes and sigh and hope for a thread of more interest to them. thats my impression .

[scutfargus]

I can see your viewpoint - you want to return to a source text because you feel that centuries of interpretation may be subjective (and no doubt because you believe the OT and NT are all 'God's words'). However, I personally would lean more towards Augustine's view, which is that on reading the bible, one is left with a strong sense of dissatisfaction. There isn't much philosophical detail in the texts, they are sometimes not particularly coherent, and above all there is loads of stuff that is need of interpretation and expansion.

I am not an expert on Augustine's views. The little I know is, his views of Scripture tended to be fairly accurate, although he was certainly influenced by the thinking of his day. I am completely unfamiliar with the viewpoint you posted here, but would be interested to read it, if you know a website which deals with this.

Take the song of songs for example - how are we to take that amazing passage which is so full of metaphor and imagery? This is a question that has challenged people for centuries and that has allowed a plethora of thought (based around the notion of allegory and symbolism) that has acted as a platform for incredibly sophisticated paths of spiritual development.

The Song of Songs is a tough one. My understanding of it (and I haven't studied it in depth for a decade or so) is that this is Solomon, the great and wise Solomon, who also had 1000 wives and mistresses; and here he is, in love with another woman. The women he had were just not enough. However, the woman he loves has enough personal integrity not to be swayed by his power or position, and she loves her shepherd lover (who is not Solomon; Solomon was a lot of things, but I think he owned livestock, but had nothing to do with taking care of it).

And of course, there is the metaphor that this is the relationship between Israel (the woman) and God (the shepherd lover). This particular metaphor is found throughout the Old Testament, especially in the book of Hosea (if memory serves) where his wife continually cheats on him (as Israel did to God).

[robbie36]

I am not an expert....

The little I know....

I am completely unfamiliar...

My understanding...

Seems you are having a lot of doubts (all in one post). That is ok. We will help you. You just need to open your mind a little.. to REALITY... then you will be able to caste off your doubts...

[scutfargus]

1) Fundamentalism tends to take the bible literally (and your words about narrative/hagiography being simply a form of 'lies' suggests this very approach - it can't value the role of metaphor in religious practice) and devalues the role of interpretation and limits the importance of independent thought.

I've led a fairly sheltered life when it comes to the churches I have gone to. The fundamentalism which you speak of is something I actually have very little personal experience with. And some of the very public people who are associated with fundamentalism (Faldwell is the only name which comes to mind--and I think I misspelled it) do as little for me as they do for those on this site who reject Jesus as their Savior. I can't watch him, or 99% of the other crap I see on tv which is related to fundamentalism. The only public person I can think of today that I have a great deal of respect for is Billy Graham.

When it comes to taking Scripture literally, obviously I generally take it literal. However, it is pretty clear at times that some things cannot be taken at face value. Obviously, Jesus did not expect us to pluck our eyes out, or we'd all be blind. So, we have to recognize that this is a figure of speech and interpret it from that view. One of the best books I have seen on this is Bullinger's "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible." It's a 1000 pages or so on this topic.

Furthermore, even though I clearly believe that the Bible is the Word of God, it is also the word of man. That cannot be denied. So, as in all literature, we should expect figures of speech in Scripture. Even God when speaking directly in the Bible uses anthropathisms (e.g., anger, hatred).

2) It ignores centuries of traditions of philosophy and interpretation which, to me, often express the most stunning achievements in Christian thought.

I absolutely agree on the importance of the function of great theologians in the past. Even though I don't care a lot for the Catholic church, I certainly respect Jerome; just as I respect Calvin and Wesley and Martin Luther. As for theologians today, there aren't many I subscribe to, apart from Thieme or Chafer (one of the greatest theologians of our time). And I have a lot of respect for Geisler (I am sure these are names no one knows here).

3) It is an individualistic approach which devalues the importance of community and tradition (such individualism in the protestant approach has often, ironically, led to greater secularism in societies such as Britian and has also greatly influenced ideologies such as capitalism).

Sometime elaborate on this, so I can get a better handle on what you are saying.

4) By concentrating on the value of a single TEXT so greatly, there is often a devaluation of important religious practices based around ritual (though all forms of Protestantism do have ritual, even though they tend to deny it).

The problem with many cults is that they emphasize a handful of texts. The Bible is not a 2 page pamphlet.

When it comes to ritual, it has to have some meaning. Ritual for ritual's sake, to me, is meaningless.

5) Fundamentalism often breeds dogmatism. And a lack of tolerance.

As you can probably pick up from stuff I have said, I have no problem with dogmatism. However, early in US history, it became apparent that intolerance toward other protestant groups was not going to work out. What I have seen today, too often, is tolerance toward everything except fundamentalist Christianity. In any case, most believers with even a modicum of intelligence realize that, intolerance to Islam (or whatever) today in the US, will result in intolerance to Christianity tomorrow.

What I see confused a lot, especially in this thread, is dogmatism and intolerance. They are not equivalent. A person can be dogmatic in what he believes and yet tolerant. You can make the issue clear to an unbeliever, but you cannot legislate or force anyone to become a Christian. Just because I believe that Jesus is the only Savior, and I am dogmatic about that; this does not mean that I would remove all other religions if I was in charge. There is nothing in the New Testament which would encourage this sort of approach. Freewill is key; without freewill, a person cannot be saved.

Finally, I admit that I am rather suspicious of the charismatic movement (which is often connected with fundamentalism). My main problem with it is that there is a huge focus on emotion over thought - what primarily matters when you go to church is being filled with the holy spirit and not thinking deeply about the important and difficult issues that christianity raises about life. In Britain, charismatic churches are often full of very young people who go to get a 'buzz' from feeling high on God and from the sense of security that being part of a club brings - but very often a sense of disillusionment sets in when fundamental issues about religion and life are not being discussed in a particularly profound manner by the preachers in the church (who usually resort to very extreme and manipulative lectures on the importance of 'us christians' against 'those unbelievers' and on how wonderful it is that 'us lot' are not going to hell.) I realise that this is my subjective view, but there it is.

Believe it or not, we are totally in synch when it comes to the charismatic movment. I've been surrounded by charismatics from almost the day I was saved, and at best, they don't seem to have a clue; and at worst, they can be outright scary.

[babyoiy]

FOR BUDD POEPLE.. THIER GOD IS BUDD WHOM CANT MOVE AND CANT DO ANY THING.. SO HOW COME HE MADE EVERYTHING.. BUDD HIMSELF MADE BY MAN.. .

AND MANY GODS... BUT REAL POWER IS THERE WHOM CONTROLING ALL

I dont like bold font either... And Buddhist believe in No God... We have no God, not even mention about word God. We dont believe in any miracle - unbelievable thing from what Buddha say.. I never see or read any sentence saying The Buddha made anything... He was a guy and just found out the way to live good life together and avoid from making any sin and if everone can do like the Buddha teach... it will be excellent. And any sentence always based on reason.

We just cant find the exactly answer who made this world and ppl...its still due to find out. I think it called "hyphothesis" Whatever.. I dont know if the Buddha is really exist but as I said.. I listen to everything that reasonable.. And the way he teach its acceptable to me.

Buddhism never say anything against another religion. I dont say I dont believes in God even Im a buddhist. But I was saying I think we got only one God above... I respect all religion. But im not sure whats the point u saying that?

[babyoiy]

Plz can anyone tell me in short whats scutfargus saying..

Due to lack of English skill.. I can never read and understand all of his posts.

So plz anyone make it in short and let me know...

why its go like 24 pages now and Im lost in translation...

Thank,

BabyOiy

[eagle]

Plz can anyone tell me in short whats scutfargus saying..

Due to lack of English skill.. I can never read and understand all of his posts.

So plz anyone make it in short and let me know...

why its go like 24 pages now and Im lost in translation...

Thank,

BabyOiy

He says he knows it all because the bible tells him so and the rest of us are full of BS. Thats it in a nutshell In the west we call it Christianity :roll:

God is real we will go to hello if he doesn't talk us into his way of thinking

[scutfargus]

There are two places where Satan attacks (whether you believe in Satan or not, you must realize that this world is filled with violence and evil): Satan does everything he can to keep anyone from understand the gospel (he is known as the father of lies, so lying is his most often used approach). Along these lines, I think he could be called the father of revisionist history, as people seem to make up history now. The second attack of Satan is on the believer himself. Satan does everything in his power to keep believers from maturing and advancing. That's why people can go to church for years and still show no spiritual advancement.

here we go again..

please don't blame everything on satan. i don't advocate him but not every bad things happen because of him.

paul has a 'thorn' in his flesh and that's God, not satan, who let that happen for a purpose.

don't attribute all good things to god and all bad things to satan. it doesn't always work that way. whether or not u're a fundamentalist, the way u look at the bible just doesn't work. and yes, i'm being judgmental here. i just don't like the way u try to answer questions. u got on other ppl's nerves for one reason and got on mine for different reasons.

Why do you think we disagree about Satan? Besides, most of us manufacture our own misery.

[scutfargus]

FOR BUDD POEPLE.. THIER GOD IS BUDD WHOM CANT MOVE AND CANT DO ANY THING.. SO HOW COME HE MADE EVERYTHING.. BUDD HIMSELF MADE BY MAN.. .

AND MANY GODS... BUT REAL POWER IS THERE WHOM CONTROLING ALL

I dont like bold font either... And Buddhist believe in No God... We have no God, not even mention about word God. We dont believe in any miracle - unbelievable thing from what Buddha say.. I never see or read any sentence saying The Buddha made anything... He was a guy and just found out the way to live good life together and avoid from making any sin and if everone can do like the Buddha teach... it will be excellent. And any sentence always based on reason.

We just cant find the exactly answer who made this world and ppl...its still due to find out. I think it called "hyphothesis" Whatever.. I dont know if the Buddha is really exist but as I said.. I listen to everything that reasonable.. And the way he teach its acceptable to me.

Buddhism never say anything against another religion. I dont say I dont believes in God even Im a buddhist. But I was saying I think we got only one God above... I respect all religion. But im not sure whats the point u saying that?

Why would you doubt that Buddha existed? I don't think anyone doubts that he was a religious teacher. If memory serves, he taught all over Asia for 50-60 years? I am more asking than stating. It seems like he covered more ground on his own than any other religious teacher that I am aware of.

[WiCKeDBiRD]

And then we wonder how people can be so stupid as to take a big plane and plough it into the WTC simply on the basis that they will be rewarded by 72 virgins in the next life?

Yeah you'd have to be really stupid to do it just for 72. I'd hold out for at least 80.

Find more sensible remarks here.

--Ling

This I dont understand....

Imagine... dealing with 72-80 wowen at the same time... Heaven /or Here on Earth...

I dont see that....

Being with loads of women would lead them to something that is closed to a word -happiness- at all.

< How do they surely know that the 72-80 virgins were sweet, pretty and sexy ??? ... Or they had seen the pics of those cuties before... and then they did make a pact with their God by signing a kind of paper before they committed themself for the assignment??? >

Me wonders..... really

-WB-

[cs3602001]

There are two places where Satan attacks (whether you believe in Satan or not, you must realize that this world is filled with violence and evil): Satan does everything he can to keep anyone from understand the gospel (he is known as the father of lies, so lying is his most often used approach). Along these lines, I think he could be called the father of revisionist history, as people seem to make up history now. The second attack of Satan is on the believer himself. Satan does everything in his power to keep believers from maturing and advancing. That's why people can go to church for years and still show no spiritual advancement.

here we go again..

please don't blame everything on satan. i don't advocate him but not every bad things happen because of him.

paul has a 'thorn' in his flesh and that's God, not satan, who let that happen for a purpose.

don't attribute all good things to god and all bad things to satan. it doesn't always work that way. whether or not u're a fundamentalist, the way u look at the bible just doesn't work. and yes, i'm being judgmental here. i just don't like the way u try to answer questions. u got on other ppl's nerves for one reason and got on mine for different reasons.

Why do you think we disagree about Satan? Besides, most of us manufacture our own misery.

I find this all rather confusing. On one hand it is being said that God leaves man to their own will, to make their own mistakes and on the other it is said that Satan and God are in some kind of ongoing battle.

The bottom line seems to be (to me) that lack of sexual activity has caused S to become someone fanatical regarding the bible. Failing to ejaculate for prolonged periods of time has caused a toxic build up in the sack, which in-turn appears to have released a type of poison into his bloodstream. This poison acts as a mild hallucinigenic, creating delusions that appear oh so real.

I suggest a "clean out" of sorts is initiated as soon as practically possible to end this nonsense.

[cs3602001]

lack of sexual activity has caused S to become someone fanatical regarding the bible.

u are accusing SATAN again? :twisted:

Of course, who else would I be accusing!!!!!

Satan has messengers too!!! Ones that attack in diverse ways.

One tactic Satan uses is to posses the body of a man and have him believe that he is a TRUE believer in GOD. He then has the man go out, out on the streets, anywhere, the latest place is for him to appear is online.

The "Believer" then PREACHES, what in his head he understands to be fundamental christian teachings, in turn his Preaching drives away any prospective believers and can instantly wipe out faith from existing believers......forcing his ideas onto others, causing them to reject his ramblings as nonsense...

SATAN is a cunning chap.....be careful all.....

[scutfargus]

I find this all rather confusing. On one hand it is being said that God leaves man to their own will, to make their own mistakes and on the other it is said that Satan and God are in some kind of ongoing battle.

It's confusing that we have an enemy and that we cause ourselves problems? What is confusing about that?

[Tinian]

Why would you doubt that Buddha existed? I don't think anyone doubts that he was a religious teacher. If memory serves, he taught all over Asia for 50-60 years? I am more asking than stating. It seems like he covered more ground on his own than any other religious teacher that I am aware of.

The Buddha's historical existence is generally undisputed, though the exact details of his life are disputed (for reasons that are similar to the life of jesus, though it's not quite the same situation). According to tradition, he taught for forty years. He didn't teach throughout Asia, but only in Northern India, mainly in the modern Indian state of Bihar. However, later traditions in non-Indian countries asserted the idea that he magically visited other countries too (this idea probably arose in order to authorise their particular traditions).

[SiamHotel]

nah... there will NOT BE A GOD

[scutfargus]

......forcing his ideas onto others

If you have ever read anything that I have posted, you will see over and over again the only thing that stands between you and eternal life is you. It is your choice all the way. Jesus Christ cannot be forced on you and He will not force Himself on you. The only way you can spend eternity with Him is by making one choice...to believe in Him. There is no one else who can do that for you. Is this clear?

And, these are not my ideas in the sense that I originated them or made them up.

Joh 6:28 Then they said to Him, What shall we do that we might work the works of God?

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent.

It is up to you whether you believe Jesus or not.

[SiamHotel]

... until scutfagus + Tinian [& the likex...] will be around!!

[SiamHotel]

{ xweet }

-- JUDAS

pluz all those inflated &go.... self-appointed

----- > [uxelexx] PRIEXTS

8) :evil:

[SiamHotel]

.... nammothassa .....

[scutfargus]

Why do you think we disagree about Satan? Besides, most of us manufacture our own misery.

u're no fun. u said one thing, i pointed out something contrary, then u said in the nature of what is quoted above.

i gave up.

We both agree there is evil in the world, right? We both agree that Satan exists, am I correct? We both agree that people often manufacture some or most of their own misery? Have I misunderstood your points? We may have some disagreements, but I thought we more or less agreed on those things. If I am wrong, let me know.

yep, and sometimes, I am no fun. sorry about that.

[SiamHotel]

yep, and sometimes, I am no fun. sorry about that.

no... no sxorry man

[SiamHotel]

only.... solutionx ??? :roll: :twisted:

[SiamHotel]

plz *xlowly* REPEAT with me / us:

NO FUN

NO FUN

NO FUN

.....

[SiamHotel]

*really* N0 jing jing??

What a Life!!.... plz GET 1, will ya?!

[DJTX]

plz *xlowly* REPEAT with me / us:

NO FUN

NO FUN

NO FUN

.....

What he said... :wink: