British and French - War Criminals?

[Loburt]

In a related forum on terrorism, member funnyman made the following post:

We all know they - in effect [coz it is very contentious as to wheter they actually started ww2- It was actually started by France and the UK] started ww2

Funnyman says it was actually the British and the French, not Nazi Germany, that started World War II.

What do our British and French members think of that?

[Guest]

I say that funnyman start WW3

[i_love_som_tam]

Evidently not so funnyman is blaming the 1938 Munich Agreement signed by Germany, Italy, France and England for the start of the war. Hitler was allowed to invade Czechoslovakia and take control of the Sudetenland, which was primarily made up of ethnic Germans.

The agreement also called for the end of Hitler's plan to take over lands that were in dispute. Land that Germany lost after the first world war. Hitler's acceptance of the agreement should have been the end of it. Hitler violated the agreement when he invaded the rest of Czechoslovakia in 1939. Hitler further violated the agreement when Germany and Russia invaded Poland later that year. The invasion of Poland caused England and France to declare war on Germany.

These two countries had no choice but to declare war. Germany and Russia had signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, an agreement of non-agression against one another, just one week before the invasion of Poland.

Hitler's greed for domination of Europe caused the violation of this pact in 1942 when Germany invaded Russia.

France and the UK saw the writing on the wall with the invasion of Poland. They had no other choice but to declare war and take up arms against Germany.

Didn't you pay attention in school?

[koratbob]

Many may actually agree with him in some part, There were actually a multitude of reasons.

I think he is simplily easily forgetting a lot of facts. I believe what he is trying to blame everything on the Treaty of Versailles, specificly Article 231, which is commonly called

Guilt cause, where in the GB and France being very intamental in the treaty its self, try to make Germany responsible for and make reparations for WW 1. However, Germany was going through economic colapse, together with its Nationalism issue, and Millitary Militia, (NAZI movement). It was just a mad time for all the world, I feal the war was initivable.

But no way did GB and France start the war.

Thats like saying there was no Hollocost, and six million Jews were never killed

[Cosmo]

Didn't you pay attention in school?

Obviously didn't...he was busy trying to be "Funny".....so he could be Funnyman.

Now, even that is doubtful........Was it the "Funny school" or the "Offensive school" that he attended?

[LingBaah]

Yeah, and the WTC towers caused 9/11.

This maybe old to some of you, but I just saw this prophetic video clip recently...

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/178650/rare_video_of_hitler/

[Guest]

What do our British and French members think of that?

Ali G lives.

[anenglishman]

Funnyman has hardly covered himself in glory with his comments on terrorism. His views on WW2 are popular revisionist but bogus. The Treaty of Versailles certainly created the conditions that led to Hitler coming to power in Germany. Thankfully the allies learned the lesson whe it came to the end of WW2, laying the groundwork for NATO, UN, EU and a strong Germany.

Laying the groundwork for Hitler is not the same as being Hitler. The Nazis started WW2. No amount of revisionism can ignore this very simple fact.

[funnyman]

Evidently not so funnyman is blaming the 1938 Munich Agreement signed by Germany, Italy, France and England for the start of the war. Hitler was allowed to invade Czechoslovakia and take control of the Sudetenland, which was primarily made up of ethnic Germans.

The agreement also called for the end of Hitler's plan to take over lands that were in dispute. Land that Germany lost after the first world war. Hitler's acceptance of the agreement should have been the end of it. Hitler violated the agreement when he invaded the rest of Czechoslovakia in 1939. Hitler further violated the agreement when Germany and Russia invaded Poland later that year. The invasion of Poland caused England and France to declare war on Germany.

These two countries had no choice but to declare war. Germany and Russia had signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, an agreement of non-agression against one another, just one week before the invasion of Poland.

Hitler's greed for domination of Europe caused the violation of this pact in 1942 when Germany invaded Russia.

France and the UK saw the writing on the wall with the invasion of Poland. They had no other choice but to declare war and take up arms against Germany.

Didn't you pay attention in school?

Typical sort of response by the sanctimonious brigade of know it all know verry ittle really category.

In POINT OF FACT FRANCE AND THE UK DECLARED WAR ON GERMANY FOLOWNIG THE INVASION OF POLAND BY GERMANY AND THE SOVIET UNION

SO GERMANY DIDNT DECALRE WAR ON THEM DID THEY? AND FRANCE AND THE UK DID HAVE A CHOICE OH THYE HAD LOTS OF CHOICES ACTUALLY

THEY COULD HAVE IMPOSED ECONOMIC SANCTIONS - SEND THEM A LETTER OF PROTEST OR JUST SAID BAD SHOW BOYS

BUT EH NO

THEY CHOOSE TO DECALRE WAR! BOTH WERE IMPERIAL POWERS WITH COLONIES AND VAST TERRITORIES UNDER THEIR CONTROL so lets not have some **** about defending liberty blah blah

It was all started coz of the Poland thing right? Eh No! Coz when it was all over Poland was less free than it ever was controlled by the Soviets as opposed to the Nazis

They [Frand and the UK] were not so much better than the nazis as to be virginal or saintly. Though the nazis were much worse.

Germany was once again a threat to stabiltiy coz it had upset the powerbalance and its own power was now more than a match for the UK and France- something neither could tolerate so they had to stop the Germans before they became even stronger.

You will note that they did not decalre war on anyone else? Given both where leading colonial powers with vast overseas territories it is the case that there involvment made it a world war.

But as you ignore I actually already cncede that it was "in efffect" Germany that started the war because I allow for the context of it having previous actions like the "peace in our time" lark which lead to Czech....etc.

One could argue that had the French and UK sttod u to Germany then the game would have been up? WW2 would have been avoided and we all would have lived happily ever after [more or less] new ways could have been found to resolve the differences between the various powers in Europe but give the nature of fascism I suspect that germany would have either atttacked Russia/ Soviet Union later anyway or just like the eventual collapse of the Soviet Union itself the Nazi regime would have collapsed in due course anyway.

IF WE REALLY WANNA GET INTO THE WAR CRIMINALS THING THEN MAYBE WE NEED THE USA COZ USING EXACTLY THE SAME STANARDS FOR EVERYONE EQUALLY GUILT WOULD BE ALOT MORE SPREAD AROUND.

The point is not to blame one nation or another but not delude ourseleves int hinking that because we were on the winning side that we were so clean and above reproach. On balance the Allies were a lot more moral and noblr than say their German or Japanese opponents but that does not mean we can see the pain,hurt and suffering OF ALL SIDES.

IT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE TO SIMPLY SAY:

OH LOK THE GERMANS KILLED SIX MILLION JEWS AND...AND THEY STARTED ALL WARS AND ARE JUST BAD....

IT IS ALOT MORE TRCKY THAN THAT but its about time ppl start to admit that it is WAR THAT IS THE ENEMY OF US ALL AND NOT THE PPL WHO FIGHT THEM.

WW2 IS WIDELY SEEN BY MANY HISTORIANS AS MERELY A CONTINUATION OF WW1 WHICH AGAIN BECAUSE THE LOSERS WERE THE GERMANS IT IS/WEAS THEM WHO TOO THE BLAME. A BALME THAT RESULTED IN THE MOST FARCIAL,INSULTING AND STUOID TREATY IMAGINABLE

THE TREATY OF VERSALLE WAS A WAR CRIME AND WITHOUT IT THERE MAY NEVER HAVE BEEN A WW2 THEN AGAIN HAD THE FRENCH AND THE BRITISH LISTEN TO THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT OF THE TIME THINGS COULD HAVE TURNED OUT MUCH BETTER. OF COURSE HIS OWN CONGRESS LET WILSON DOWN BADLY ANYWAY ND THE AMERCIAN ISOLATIONISM THAT FOLOWED SAW THE LEAUGE OF NATIONS RENDERED USELESS

SO MAYBE WE CAN BLAME THE AMERCAN PPL AND THE US CONGRESS FOR WW2

[Japhrodisiac]

Hitler spelled out his plans more or less in Mein Kampf, and later orchestrated the "invasion" of a German bordertown radio station by Germans dressed in Polish uniforms as an excuse to invade Poland, invaded Czecheslovakia etc. The Third Reich was made up of a series of highly deceiptful organisations where officers were literally killing each other to outo one another in terms of atrocities. Read the book "Gestapo" for some light bedtime material on exactly how plans were laid out to decieve all of Europe and gain power through mass killings and invasions. Thanks to France and England(who's forces included Canadians right from the get-go) and later other's, the world intervened.

[Japhrodisiac]

It now says member Funnyman was banned for multiple or Fake profiles. Awww

[Loburt]

Funnyman and Dan Morgan are multiple/fake profiles.

They are banned.

[i_love_som_tam]

Funnyman and Dan Morgan are multiple/fake profiles.

They are banned.

Dan Morgan fake? Say it ain't so :shock:

[zeusbheld]

it's really a damn shame he got banned, i was really looking forward to more posts in history and politics that are as shambling, incoherent, unfocused, simplistic and flat out stupid as the one below. oh well, this is TF, someone will inevitably take up the slack.

well, best of luck to you funlessman. hope they double, halve, change or spike your meds, whatever it takes.

Typical sort of response by the sanctimonious brigade of know it all know verry ittle really category.

In POINT OF FACT FRANCE AND THE UK DECLARED WAR ON GERMANY FOLOWNIG THE INVASION OF POLAND BY GERMANY AND THE SOVIET UNION

SO GERMANY DIDNT DECALRE WAR ON THEM DID THEY? AND FRANCE AND THE UK DID HAVE A CHOICE OH THYE HAD LOTS OF CHOICES ACTUALLY

THEY COULD HAVE IMPOSED ECONOMIC SANCTIONS - SEND THEM A LETTER OF PROTEST OR JUST SAID BAD SHOW BOYS

BUT EH NO

THEY CHOOSE TO DECALRE WAR! BOTH WERE IMPERIAL POWERS WITH COLONIES AND VAST TERRITORIES UNDER THEIR CONTROL so lets not have some sh*t about defending liberty blah blah

It was all started coz of the Poland thing right? Eh No! Coz when it was all over Poland was less free than it ever was controlled by the Soviets as opposed to the Nazis

They [Frand and the UK] were not so much better than the nazis as to be virginal or saintly. Though the nazis were much worse.

Germany was once again a threat to stabiltiy coz it had upset the powerbalance and its own power was now more than a match for the UK and France- something neither could tolerate so they had to stop the Germans before they became even stronger.

You will note that they did not decalre war on anyone else? Given both where leading colonial powers with vast overseas territories it is the case that there involvment made it a world war.

But as you ignore I actually already cncede that it was "in efffect" Germany that started the war because I allow for the context of it having previous actions like the "peace in our time" lark which lead to Czech....etc.

One could argue that had the French and UK sttod u to Germany then the game would have been up? WW2 would have been avoided and we all would have lived happily ever after [more or less] new ways could have been found to resolve the differences between the various powers in Europe but give the nature of fascism I suspect that germany would have either atttacked Russia/ Soviet Union later anyway or just like the eventual collapse of the Soviet Union itself the Nazi regime would have collapsed in due course anyway.

IF WE REALLY WANNA GET INTO THE WAR CRIMINALS THING THEN MAYBE WE NEED THE USA COZ USING EXACTLY THE SAME STANARDS FOR EVERYONE EQUALLY GUILT WOULD BE ALOT MORE SPREAD AROUND.

The point is not to blame one nation or another but not delude ourseleves int hinking that because we were on the winning side that we were so clean and above reproach. On balance the Allies were a lot more moral and noblr than say their German or Japanese opponents but that does not mean we can see the pain,hurt and suffering OF ALL SIDES.

IT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE TO SIMPLY SAY:

OH LOK THE GERMANS KILLED SIX MILLION JEWS AND...AND THEY STARTED ALL WARS AND ARE JUST BAD....

IT IS ALOT MORE TRCKY THAN THAT but its about time ppl start to admit that it is WAR THAT IS THE ENEMY OF US ALL AND NOT THE PPL WHO FIGHT THEM.

WW2 IS WIDELY SEEN BY MANY HISTORIANS AS MERELY A CONTINUATION OF WW1 WHICH AGAIN BECAUSE THE LOSERS WERE THE GERMANS IT IS/WEAS THEM WHO TOO THE BLAME. A BALME THAT RESULTED IN THE MOST FARCIAL,INSULTING AND STUOID TREATY IMAGINABLE

THE TREATY OF VERSALLE WAS A WAR CRIME AND WITHOUT IT THERE MAY NEVER HAVE BEEN A WW2 THEN AGAIN HAD THE FRENCH AND THE BRITISH LISTEN TO THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT OF THE TIME THINGS COULD HAVE TURNED OUT MUCH BETTER. OF COURSE HIS OWN CONGRESS LET WILSON DOWN BADLY ANYWAY ND THE AMERCIAN ISOLATIONISM THAT FOLOWED SAW THE LEAUGE OF NATIONS RENDERED USELESS

SO MAYBE WE CAN BLAME THE AMERCAN PPL AND THE US CONGRESS FOR WW2

[GoldMember]

What do our British and French members think of that?

The resident Anglo-French member who washes more than once a year says sacre bleu.Though it is indeed the harshness of the Treaty of Versailles that is considered the catalyst to what lay ahead.So possibly indirectly there is a valid point but its a fairly weak one ,as already mentioned by others.