Sylver Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 "So you consider that people working illegally are criminals, their crime being to be there and working. A crime is something that damages considerably society or individuals. Expats working are not criminals." <<< this is funny>>> how else to say this in non legal language and in English....people working illegally are criminals ... So,YES!!! ....an Expat...who is working illegally is technically a criminal ! This is exactly what is meant by "justice is blind". A finance shark making money on the stock markets without ever doing a day of actual work, without producing anything for the society, is "legal" and a guy working and producing valuable products for the society is a "criminal". Don't you see there is something wrong here? People working are contributing to the society. Thanks to them, more goods/services are produced and made available. The society is better for it. You call it a crime because it violates a law written by some xenophobic schmuck some years ago. Be my guest. The funny part of it is that Thailand welcomes with open arms people who are not working, but frown on average people who will work. and a few million baht, is that really so much to start a legal business..you cant even get a good used Benz in Bkk for that...and if you are in your mid 30's up to late 40's and dont have that saved up from your life savings...you better get your ass out of Thailand and get your ass to work.. cuz u cant afford to be here either!!! Since you want to make it personal, let's talke my case: I am 30, and my main goal in life is not the accumulation of money, although I have nothing against it. Well done for you if you have that kind of money, but you may not have realized the vast majority of people living in first world countries (not to mention poorer countries) do not have that kind of money saved up. They don't have a few million baths saved up. Are they "bad people" who should get their asses to work? I make enough to ensure myself an adequate living and that adequate living is a fair bit higher than 10 times what an average Thai earns. I get my income from abroad and spend it iin Thailand. I also spent 8 months of my time volunteering on the ground after the Tsunami, helping Thai folks get back on their feet. Yes, I could sign up with an existing company and probably earn more, with proper visa and work permit. This would however mean I would no longer be my own boss and my lifestyle would be quite different, a change I am not willing to make. Other than being there, I commit no crime. According to the letter of the law, there is no arguying, you are completely right. But let's just speak in practical terms: Would the Thai society be better if I left? Would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfg_johnny Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 zeusbheld wrote: "as an american with an american tax accountant, my understanding is that if you don't live in the USA you don't pay personal income tax, just social security." you are partially correct ...we are allowed the first $90,000USD in earned income in personal income taxes, as tax free income. Deductions, invrestments, and other stuff can bump it up to $250,000USD a year... but since my company is based out of Washington and Las Vegas, Nevada there are no corporate income taxes in those states either...so double bonus... thank you GWB...for feeling my pain! and for those "Dropouts"...what are u living on??? Care to invest instead of being a drop out...Lets start a Thai Hedge Fund...and buy your visa's... and Buffalo's rarely get sick... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfg_johnny Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Sylver.. if you want to come to Thailand and be a volunteer to help out on a missionary, tsunami relief reconstruction or any other volunteer program that is benificial to the Thai Society... that is great... Give me a call and we will happily put u in touch with those that allow you to get the proper permits and visas to stay for up to 2 years without having to do a visa run... Its just a matter of going through the proper channels... and if you read carefully i said those in their mid 30 and up who do not have a few million baht in life savings...you being only 30, are not...so it does not pertain to you...You still have a few more years of partying and going crazy BUT... you better start thinking about it if you ever want to retire...(read: Grasshopper and the Ant, some day...) hmm, monkhood sounds better than working...But, there is no drinking, and no sex...but we dont have to work... thanks, did it for my mom once... and I think I will pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsnow Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 The guys/gals works. Great. I would never be upset over immigrants working in my country. I would only be upset over immigrants living in my country and NOT working. Here Sylver might be quite alone...Definetly, work is good, and freeloaders are bad. But no offense, ok. I just like to point out reason that I myself don't like people working without paying taxes. Most countries want to root out so called grey economy: putting both immigrants and locals into taxation systems. Most countries, and most people want that businesses and people pay taxes for their work and revenues. 1) This enables governments to use those funds to keep systems running and 2) also puts companies and people on the same lines, so that those who do not pay taxes dont get unequal competitive advantages (the basic envy working here ). Sure, everybody pays VAT but that is not enough if one considers these points of views. Oh, maybe a curiosity, I talked this Sunday also to a social worker who works for refugees and so on. He told that what many do is this: they work and pay no taxes normally or enjoy social welfare programs and do not use the money themselves: they eat rice or noodles or whatnot and send every penny possible back home. This is great show of self-denial and unselfishness. BUT this means: this kind of activities also deprive governments even from getting those VAT euros or whatever currencies you as an example mentioned...(My concern is more on the grey economy and all kinds of negative side effects of working under the radar (to work safety and health and so on)...not the fact they don't buy new sneakers or whatnot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 and for those "Dropouts"...what are u living on??? Care to invest instead of being a drop out...Lets start a Thai Hedge Fund...and buy your visa's... i'm living on income tax refunds. i'm one of those taking a year off to write a book... and Buffalo's rarely get sick... ;-) DO NOT repeat that; it will do FAR MORE DAMAGE to the thai economy than ANY visa-rule change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 if i have missed a post with this info im sorry , just alot to take in. im coming to bkk in november on a multi entry non immigrant b visa , and doing my t.e.s.o.l ,then applying for jobs . is this visa going to be affected because stickman seems to think it might? also can you work straight away without a work permit but have initially applied for one through your place of work and is pending? my appologies to anyone who has heard these questions before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankenburner2 Posted September 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 from my "triple entry tourist visa" guy Jim in penang: "Sorry from today only single entry visa,no double or triple entry visa.They decided to start from today.Please tell your friends about it.Thank you--Jim" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankenburner2 Posted September 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 just confirmed same from another source that works out of the UK.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Just posted on thaivisa.com from Sunbelt Asia News from the new regulation: This is coming from the Chief of Immigration. 1.Retirement Visa extension. If you have a foreign married spouse who is a dependent they will be able to get this dependent visa now. ( change of what has been happing the last couple weeks) 2.Retirement visa extension: If you have children under 20. They will no longer be able to get a dependent visa based on you having an extension of stay on retirement. They want these kids to get it based on education so they go to school. 3..Investment Visa extension: Will no longer be available after Oct 1st for new applicants on 3 million Baht. 4. Investment visa extension. For existing extension of stay holders of 3 million Baht, we are now being told this will now be grandfathered in and they will be able to get the extension forever as long as they renew. (Yes I know reversal from several hours ago but the government is aware that people bought condos before on this scheme and now will allow it.) 5.Now the news for frequent visitors: We have checked this upwards and backwards all day and it has been confirmed by a copy of the new regulation we have. If you have a visa on arrival more than three times in six months, you cannot come into Thailand without a visa from an Embassy/Consulate. When you enter Thailand, even if you are here just 1 hour, this counts as 30 days. If you come back 6 weeks later for 2 days, this again is 30 days. If you arrive a month later for 4 days, still counts as 30 days. When you leave, you cannot enter Thailand for 3.5 months without coming back with a visa. The reason is to force people who are supposed to have work permits to do so and pay tax. Another example; you arrive for a week, this counts as 30 days, One month later 3 days and its 30 days, two months later and its for a two week period, still another 30 days. You can reenter Thailand in 6 weeks without having a visa. 6.On extension of stay based support of a Thai national (Marriage visa), before if you applied for this extension of stay, you would get a 30 day consideration stamp. Once you return in 30 days you would get the one year extension. Now it will be the same as an extension of stay based on business with the norm of three 30 day consideration stamps. Immigration will go out and check to see if it?s a real marriage or a sham before issuing the one year. 7.On an extension of stay based on being a Monk. No dependents will be allowed to get an extension of stay based on being a dependent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfarang Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 I know a couple of farangs who work for my company, who have only tourist visas and they make about 60-70k a month, has comfortable life and don't have to pay tax. I mean it doens't mean much to me whether who pays tax and who doesn't but then isn't it a form of taking advantage from this country and from the people who have to go through all the process to stay here legally? don't you seriously think that if YOUR COMPANY was willing to pay the capital requirement ( 2 Million baht per head) and offer these couple farangs the required by law work permits , they would gladly do all they can to fill the paperwork in no time and get legal? your company is the criminal here . IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankenburner2 Posted September 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 thanks to chris ghent for this very informative thai visa forum link....lots of good FAQ's... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=82975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 thankyou loburt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anenglishman Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 The info from Sunbelt is very confusing...meaning thay have not figured out how to make more money yet. But they will.....trust me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldMember Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 5.Now the news for frequent visitors: We have checked this upwards and backwards all day and it has been confirmed by a copy of the new regulation we have. If you have a visa on arrival more than three times in six months, you cannot come into Thailand without a visa from an Embassy/Consulate. When you enter Thailand, even if you are here just 1 hour, this counts as 30 days. If you come back 6 weeks later for 2 days, this again is 30 days. If you arrive a month later for 4 days, still counts as 30 days. When you leave, you cannot enter Thailand for 3.5 months without coming back with a visa. The reason is to force people who are supposed to have work permits to do so and pay tax. Another example; you arrive for a week, this counts as 30 days, One month later 3 days and its 30 days, two months later and its for a two week period, still another 30 days. You can reenter Thailand in 6 weeks without having a visa. Hmm fairly dumb & regressive stuff.I think the Thai authorities fail to consider that South East Asia is awash with extremely decent hedonistic hotels/resorts for frequent travellers to lounge around , sip cold beers without the hassle of getting a visa.Mai pen rai eh :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petertje72 Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Who wants to marry me?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldMember Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 5.Now the news for frequent visitors: We have checked this upwards and backwards all day and it has been confirmed by a copy of the new regulation we have. If you have a visa on arrival more than three times in six months, you cannot come into Thailand without a visa from an Embassy/Consulate. When you enter Thailand, even if you are here just 1 hour, this counts as 30 days. If you come back 6 weeks later for 2 days, this again is 30 days. If you arrive a month later for 4 days, still counts as 30 days. When you leave, you cannot enter Thailand for 3.5 months without coming back with a visa. The reason is to force people who are supposed to have work permits to do so and pay tax. Another example; you arrive for a week, this counts as 30 days, One month later 3 days and its 30 days, two months later and its for a two week period, still another 30 days. You can reenter Thailand in 6 weeks without having a visa. Hmm fairly dumb & regressive stuff.I think the Thai authorities fail to consider that South East Asia is awash with extremely decent hedonistic hotels/resorts for frequent travellers to lounge around , sip cold beers without the hassle of getting a visa.Mai pen rai eh :wink: PLus cant imagine Thai airways are going to be too chuffed about this scheme either.Non resident Royal Orchid frequent flyers( the bread butter of the airline) en route to destinations the other side of Thailand wont be able to stopover so much and may end up flying with someone else within * alliance (like SQ ) or just go non stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylver Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Sylver.. if you want to come to Thailand and be a volunteer to help out on a missionary, tsunami relief reconstruction or any other volunteer program that is benificial to the Thai Society... that is great...Give me a call and we will happily put u in touch with those that allow you to get the proper permits and visas to stay for up to 2 years without having to do a visa run... Its just a matter of going through the proper channels... Thanks, I appreciate your offer. The thing is, I volunteered when I felt there was an urgent need, and at that time it was important enough for me to drop whatever else I was doing. However I don't want to become a full time volunteer. People can count on me when times get rough. If I can help, I will, but I want to live my own life too. I pointed this out to show that beyond the "illegal work = criminal", I happened to be contributing a fair bit to Thai society on several levels. However, I would be nevertheless interested to know more about other volunteers/organizations. If you have some data please PM me. and if you read carefully i said those in their mid 30 and up who do not have a few million baht in life savings...you being only 30, are not...so it does not pertain to you...You still have a few more years of partying and going crazy BUT... you better start thinking about it if you ever want to retire...(read: Grasshopper and the Ant, some day...)... Fair point. I knew you meant this for people a little older than I am, but your post seemed to call me on it. Thanks for your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 FYI i believe it was sylver who claimed that the 40k-50k per month rentals and higher end condo market wouldn't be affected. actually it most likely will--i've talked to a few early retirees, who live by money generated by shuffling their portfolio. many will leave permanently when their lease expires if the new policy is implemented as described. considering how soft the real estate market in bkk is already, and bkk developers' tendency to build too many luxury condos, it is fair to expect even the higher-end market to be hit hard. whether they'll lower rents or let 'em sit empty is anyone's guess. one bit of good news, on the situation in general, though. seems they won't start counting entry stamps until october 1 rather than looking at the last six months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankenburner2 Posted September 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 FYI i believe it was sylver who claimed that the 40k-50k per month rentals and higher end condo market wouldn't be affected. actually it most likely will--i've talked to a few early retirees, who live by money generated by shuffling their portfolio. many will leave permanently when their lease expires if the new policy is implemented as described. considering how soft the real estate market in bkk is already, and bkk developers' tendency to build too many luxury condos, it is fair to expect even the higher-end market to be hit hard. whether they'll lower rents or let 'em sit empty is anyone's guess. one bit of good news, on the situation in general, though. seems they won't start counting entry stamps until october 1 rather than looking at the last six months. well...yes!..that is very good news! what was the source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocDre Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 The non-B has to be acquired 2 countries away, making S'Pore and HK the nearest you can obtain one. Totally true, on a good note Bangkok/Singapore return flights are under 2000 bht return right now with air asia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmo_V2.0 Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 also can you work straight away without a work permit but have initially applied for one through your place of work and is pending? . Legally no. Practically yes, every teacher does it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petertje72 Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 one bit of good news, on the situation in general, though. seems they won't start counting entry stamps until october 1 rather than looking at the last six months. So this means that if you take a visarun after 1 october they will not look at the existing stamps in the passport and start counting only with the new ones dated after 1 october?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankenburner2 Posted September 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Visa rules and cheap pseudo-nationalism Re: ''New visa policy is a typical overreaction'' (Postbag, Sept 12). Obviously inspired by Thaksin's sweeping critical thinking, the Immigration Bureau has not considered several conditions and points arising from the new policy:1) The full announcement has only appeared on Forbes (www.forbes.com), an overseas business magazine of specialised readership, and not in the local dailies which would give a widespread notice; in effect, such very short notice rather smacks of intentional entrapment, such as in the Karen religious ceremony. It has been reported only on one website. 2) The curtailed announcement by the local newspapers does not give its full implications, which puts the question: to what extent they now toe Thaksin's line. 3) It is great a deterrent to tourists, especially retirees, who plan to come to Thailand for long holidays and cannot rely on their visa validity on their arrival, open as it is to the whims of a xenophobic Immigration Bureau. 4) By extension, the policy, contrary to world and ASEAN trends, and the way it has been announced, does not project an inviting image to foreign investors, as it underlines the uncertainty of the Thai government's continuing caprice and not their increasing fairness and reliability. Direct damage to the Thai people is rather complex to define. Certainly, the micro-economies hinging on the visa runs will be destroyed. The railways already suffer a very sharp drop in farang passengers, very little due to the southern unrest. The greatest impact will be on the jobs for which Thais have no skills, which are many, and related multiplier factors because of the overcomplicated Thai conditions of employment: i.e., it is likely that more than two-thirds of the farang teachers will disappear, leaving schools and language centres undermanned _ all in the name of raising students' education standards, of course. Instead of indulging in cheap pseudo-nationalistic whims, Thaksin should consider first the benefits of the foreigners' contribution and facilitate and regularise their presence here. KRABONG KUVERAKORN a large fat man should break into thaksin's home, sit on him, and read this over and over and over again until he sees the light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 one bit of good news, on the situation in general, though. seems they won't start counting entry stamps until october 1 rather than looking at the last six months. So this means that if you take a visarun after 1 october they will not look at the existing stamps in the passport and start counting only with the new ones dated after 1 october?? it appears that way. there appears to be an ongoing process by the immigration people to hammer TRT's jingoistic retrograde nationalism into a workable policy. the latest is that it appears it is now 90 days per six months on 30 day stamps, implying that (at the discretion of immigration) you can come and go as you please as long as your total stay doesn't exceed 90 days. this is a great relief for short-hop tourists, like s'poreans and hongkongers why fly in a couple weekends a month to AHEM play golf. another bit of somewhat good news is that you won't have to run for your visa run, you should be able to get it extended right here in bangers. do keep in mind, though, that all this is a work in progress. it is a matter of policy not law, so it can change fast. it's quite possible that this is mostly election posturing and may blow over. after all, TRT 'principles' aside, toxin owns a good chunk of khee nok visa run airlines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldMember Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Of course visitors with duo nationality and 2 passports get double the amount of trips :idea: Those with only 1 can get a spare from the Marshall islands.I heard they're a very sympathetic bunch of guys with nothing better to do but laze on the beach,drink beer and dosh out 2nd passports for 50 grand apiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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