Boycott it!

[zeusbheld]

Too manyg people think they actually know sh*t, when it's only what they've interpreted from the evidence they have.

that said, too many people seem to define "evidence" as "whatever supports my position."

obviously, real-life conspiracies do exist. enron, for example....

but when making a claim that runs counter to the simplest interpretation to the known evidence, wouldn't an epistemologically responsible person accept that they needed to support their claims with concrete and relevant evidence that supports their theory and DOES NOT support the other?

not that evidence of any sort should ever be mixed with TF. my bad. never mind.

[Thomas_K]

just like all the evidence backing the existance of god ? but yet millions and billions believe in it

[luckyphil247]

just like all the evidence backing the existance of god ? but yet millions and billions believe in it

Its called Faith

[zeusbheld]

that said, too many people seem to define "evidence" as "whatever supports my position."

That would be everyone.

believe it or not, it is possible to actually form an opinion based on what you see in front of you, rather than form what you see in front of you based on your opinion (but not on TF, so point taken)

Only if they knew the meaning of "epistemologically".

hopefully if they can operate the sophisticated controls of TF they can take it to the next level of internet skills: dictionary.com. or weakiepedia or something. :roll:

not that evidence of any sort should ever be mixed with TF. my bad. never mind.

My point exactly.

I'm glad we finally agree on something.

there goes the universe.

[zeusbheld]

just like all the evidence backing the existance of god ? but yet millions and billions believe in it

right then. i forgot that if lots of people believe it, that makes it true. i will never tell santa claus he doesn't exist again.

[zeusbheld]

Kudos.

kudos? you mean them big lizards in indonesia?

[Thomas_K]

Its sorta like the undisputalbe evidence that JFK was killed by a magic bullet......cause thats the official *theory* of what happened ?

Just like the evidence of WMD in Iraq before the invasion

If magic bullets and disappearing nukes are any indication of how your government works then im sure the official story of 9/11 has to be true

[CiaranM]

just like all the evidence backing the existance of god ? but yet millions and billions believe in it

Its called Faith

some might suggest stupidity as a better term .... i did say "some" !!!!

[beej]

Its sorta like the undisputalbe evidence that JFK was killed by a magic bullet......cause thats the official *theory* of what happened ?

Just like the evidence of WMD in Iraq before the invasion

If magic bullets and disappearing nukes are any indication of how your government works then im sure the official story of 9/11 has to be true

There is a reason why your a looser with a crap job and not a high ranking government official, but I just can't put my thumb on it!

[zeusbheld]

If magic bullets and disappearing nukes are any indication of how your government works then im sure the official story of 9/11 has to be true

personally i'd rather believe people who do the real work, such as structural engineers, detectives, ballistics experts, etc.

all beliefs are provisional, and should be replaced if new evidence does not support them. EVIDENCE though.

"governments cannot be trusted" does NOT prove "the moon landing was faked" or "no planes were flown into the wtc on 9/11". interesting "logic" :shock:

[zeusbheld]

So, a guy who believes motion detectors over a doorway are proof of ghosts thinks the moon landing was faked, while my Dad, a Professor of atmospheric physics, says they weren't and has a reasonable rational explanation for every bit of "evidence" that says they were. Hmmm, who should I back in this argument of idiocy against logic?.

well clearly the US government cannot be trusted, therefore, logically, you should back idiocy, if i understand what thomas_k is saying correctly.

[zeusbheld]

that said, too many people seem to define "evidence" as "whatever supports my position."

That would be everyone.

believe it or not, it is possible to actually form an opinion based on what you see in front of you, rather than form what you see in front of you based on your opinion (but not on TF, so point taken)

And also to see in front of you something based on your opinion of something which may or may not be in front of you.

do explain what you just said :shock:

I'm glad we finally agree on something.

there goes the universe.

The writing was already on the wall. Too much procrastination as it is. If it's gonna bloody blow then get the hell on with it.

that's the problem with geological time. damn you carl sagan and your billions and billions!

[Thomas_K]

If magic bullets and disappearing nukes are any indication of how your government works then im sure the official story of 9/11 has to be true

personally i'd rather believe people who do the real work, such as structural engineers, detectives, ballistics experts, etc.

all beliefs are provisional, and should be replaced if new evidence does not support them. EVIDENCE though.

"governments cannot be trusted" does NOT prove "the moon landing was faked" or "no planes were flown into the wtc on 9/11". interesting "logic" :shock:

i never said anything about the moon landing

never said no planes were flown into the WTC

you should look at what i say before you make statements like that dumbass

beej....... go play with your little nubs ok pal you are as useful as the **** i took this morning .... i dont work a crap job sunshine i own a business ..... gets your head on straight..... and no its not an ebay account that ive sold 10 things from ....its a real deal thai business (wow go figure ) complete with work permit and income tax cards....how about you since were on the topic whats your job here in thailand ?

Just curious but since JFK was shot hasnt the US govt come out and said that *probably* there was a conspiracy to kill JFK.....

good luck living in a dream world folks .....next your gonna tell me NYC port authority had never said anything about WTC basically being comparable to a condemned building and an esbastos pit before the attacks ..... or that NYC port authority refused to allow WTC to be demolished .... adding that the cost to dismantle it floor by floor would be well over 15 bn dollars

For once if the truth could be told what a wonderful world this would be

[zeusbheld]

that's the problem with geological time. damn you carl sagan and your billions and billions!

He's not the only one.

According to that Einstein bloke it might already have happened. Somewhere. Not here obviously. But like, somewhere else.

i think that isn't quite what einstein was on about, but i'm sure someone somewhere said it... spacetime is tricky stuff.

[zeusbheld]

If magic bullets and disappearing nukes are any indication of how your government works then im sure the official story of 9/11 has to be true

personally i'd rather believe people who do the real work, such as structural engineers, detectives, ballistics experts, etc.

all beliefs are provisional, and should be replaced if new evidence does not support them. EVIDENCE though.

"governments cannot be trusted" does NOT prove "the moon landing was faked" or "no planes were flown into the wtc on 9/11". interesting "logic" :shock:

i never said anything about the moon landing

goodghost did.

for future reference, if you need it:

*****cut and paste ******

it's about me, isn't it.

*****cut and paste ******

never said no planes were flown into the WTC

you cited 9/11 review. at various times they've linked to conspiracy theorists who a) said the wtc was hit by misslies or the planes were empty target drones (from close range, btw, you can see the people in the windows of the plane, there were eyewitnesses in battery park city, some of whom i know personally).

and you're calling me dumbass, special ed? check y'self before you wreck y'self. and check your sources before you claim 'em as authoritative; you might find they have a chequered past...

you should look at what i say before you make statements like that dumbass

you should learn to read and write before you run around calling *other* people dumbass. are you going all thin-skinned and tense again, little boy? so you're a genius, apparently, and i can't keep up with you? you wont mind if i prove your "literary merit" by posting one of your poems then, right? :roll:

beej....... go play with your little nubs ok pal you are as useful as the sh*t i took this morning .... i dont work a crap job sunshine i own a business ..... gets your head on straight..... and no its not an ebay account that ive sold 10 things from ....its a real deal thai business (wow go figure ) complete with work permit and income tax cards....how about you since were on the topic whats your job here in thailand ?

right you sell purses. fyi i know what beej does for a living, i'd take his job over yours in a heartbeat. please don't take this the wrong way though i might need a new purse some day :roll:

Just curious but since JFK was shot hasnt the US govt come out and said that *probably* there was a conspiracy to kill JFK.....

haven't followed it, only noted how the sad logic of the conspiracy theorists doesn't support what they said, even if it happened to be true. i find the whole jfk conspiracy thing rather tedious.

good luck living in a dream world folks .....next your gonna tell me NYC port authority had never said anything about WTC basically being comparable to a condemned building and an esbastos pit before the attacks ..... or that NYC port authority refused to allow WTC to be demolished .... adding that the cost to dismantle it floor by floor would be well over 15 bn dollars

which obviously proves it was demolished, right? you have a very loose grip on cause and effect. but then, what would i know, i'm just a dumbass who dropped out of engineering school and ended up with useless art degrees:roll:

For once if the truth could be told what a wonderful world this would be

great idea! how about you start telling some, just for an interesting change of pace...

[zeusbheld]

that's the problem with geological time. damn you carl sagan and your billions and billions!

He's not the only one.

According to that Einstein bloke it might already have happened. Somewhere. Not here obviously. But like, somewhere else.

i think that isn't quite what einstein was on about, but i'm sure someone somewhere said it... spacetime is tricky stuff.

Mr Spock in "I, Mudd": "Nowhere am I so desperately needed as among a shipload of illogical humans."

amen, brother. amen.

[Loburt]

Just curious but since JFK was shot hasnt the US govt come out and said that *probably* there was a conspiracy to kill JFK.....

Yes, a congressional committee in the late 1970s did conclude that there may have been a conspiracy to kill JFK.

But nowhere in that committee's findings did anyone even remotely suggest that the driver of the car in which JFK was riding was the shooter, or even a shooter.

That idea is simply ridiculous.

Think about it. There were four other occupants of the car aside from JFK. Another secret service agent, Gov. John Connally and his wife, and Jackie Kennedy.

Now, none of these people, two of whom (Connally and his wife) were sitting inches from the driver, ever said the driver was the gunman. Connally was also shot and wounded while in the car. He never ever said the driver did it, and he spoke about the assassination many times.

How could they not see the driver shooting them when they are sitting inches from him, and instead say the shots came from outside the car?

That's just for starters. If you start to examine what physical evidence exists, it easily shows that it is physically impossible for the driver to have shot JFK.

At the sound of the gunshots, however, the driver did slow the vehicle slightly as he turned and looked back to see what the hell was going on.

Some people, however, will believe anything.

[Thomas_K]

zeus.... ok ice cube i have checked myself ....please do post my poem .... as i have stated many times before ... i wrote 1 poem for a friend of mine

its just like all of those eye witnesses on november 22 that say they saw shots coming from other places ......

[Thomas_K]

loburt ....the driver shooter isnt my idea and im not backing it

Simply saying that odds are JFK was not killed by a lone gunman from a 6th story bookstore .....thats just ludicris

Odds are 9/11 didnt happen exactly how we were told either

[zeusbheld]

zeus.... ok ice cube i have checked myself ....please do post my poem .... as i have stated many times before ... i wrote 1 poem for a friend of mine

its just like all of those eye witnesses on november 22 that say they saw shots coming from other places ......

really i don't see the connection between your poems and eye witneses who say they saw the shots coming from other places...

on the other hand i don't see much in the way of a connection between your presmisses and your conclusions. your poetry deserves its own thread; can you write some new material please?

[Loburt]

I'm not with you on 9/11, Thomas.

It has been shown that it is POSSIBLE that a lone gunman from inside the Texas School Book Depository could have killed JFK. It is unlikely, and I tend to think that is not what happened, but it is possible.

[zeusbheld]

loburt ....the driver shooter isnt my idea and im not backing it

riiiight. you missed the part about you not being the only person in this thread didn't you.

Simply saying that odds are JFK was not killed by a lone gunman from a 6th story bookstore ....

it may or may not be true, but according to the few ballistics experts i've mentioned it to, and some military sharpshooters (and a few farmboys), it's plausible.

thats just ludicris

as is your spelling; the rapper is Ludacris. the word, on the other hand, is ludicrous. i'm only pointing this out because you're so eager to call others a dumbass, obviously you must be in the know, so your failings disappoint me bitterly.

Odds are 9/11 didnt happen exactly how we were told either

still eagerly awaiting your getting off your ass and telling us how it DID happen. and especially hopeful that you can cite some sources that aren't ridiculously dodgy websites... actual scientific papers and such (you *have* seen a scientific paper before, havent' you?)

[Loburt]

its just like all of those eye witnesses on november 22 that say they saw shots coming from other places ......

almost nobody said they "saw" shots coming from other places. many said they heard shots coming from the grassy knoll.

they may be absolutely right. or they may have been fooled by the acoustics in Dealey Plaza. i don't really know what the answer is.

but bear in mind that eyewitness testimony has been proven time and again in police investigations and courts of law to be the most unreliable form of witness testimony when compared with forensics and other types of testimonies.

[Thomas_K]

zeus.... ok ice cube i have checked myself ....please do post my poem .... as i have stated many times before ... i wrote 1 poem for a friend of mine

its just like all of those eye witnesses on november 22 that say they saw shots coming from other places ......

really i don't see the connection between your poems and eye witneses who say they saw the shots coming from other places...

on the other hand i don't see much in the way of a connection between your presmisses and your conclusions. your poetry deserves its own thread; can you write some new material please?

zeus ....either post the poem or shut the **** up about it your the one who keeps bringing it up

[zeusbheld]

I'm not with you on 9/11, Thomas.

It has been shown that it is POSSIBLE that a lone gunman from inside the Texas School Book Depository could have killed JFK. It is unlikely, and I tend to think that is not what happened, but it is possible.

that's pretty much what i think: it's plausible but also plausible that there was more than one gunman, just no one has been able to make a conclusive case. bottom line is, WE DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE. and are unlikely to ever know.

also it's entirely plausible that there was a wider conspiracy even if oswald was the lone gunman.

however, the driver thing is pretty ridiculous, right up there with the faked moonshot. but i'll beleive it if anyone can get their ouija board to spell it out for me.