Stramash Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 How bout doing this...How bout flipping the script and answering this question....Can i prove there is No God???? What factual proof do i have in saying there is no God????? I'm not talking about evolution or creationism, i'm talking about true tangible evidence....Does anyone have any true tangible evidence to prove there is No God???? yada yada yada... to return to what YOU said in your original post, and I quote, 'both sides actually do have factual evidence for their beliefs'... Ok, what factual evidence is there for the existence of God?? Because it seems to me that after 2 millenia of lies, corruption, oppression, torture, war, killings, persecution, hate, bigotry and deceit, the onus is on the f**king so called belivers to prove that there is some sort of worthwhile reason for it all... :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 How bout doing this...How bout flipping the script and answering this question....Can i prove there is No God???? What factual proof do i have in saying there is no God????? I'm not talking about evolution or creationism, i'm talking about true tangible evidence....Does anyone have any true tangible evidence to prove there is No God???? can u prove there is no big flying f**king teapot ?? it's about as likely as ur god !! I can prove there IS a big flying f**king teapot cos I have been in the f**ker!! :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang_subson Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I knew Russell's teapot and the FSM would come up. These are patently ridiculous arguments. It's insane to believe in a god modeled after spaghetti and meatballs. Sane people worship the invisible pink unicorn ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_pink_unicorn). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I knew Russell's teapot and the FSM would come up. These are patently ridiculous arguments. It's insane to believe in a god modeled after spaghetti and meatballs.Sane people worship the invisible pink unicorn ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_pink_unicorn). who the f*ck is Russell?? :? Oh, that Russell... Wasn't Bertand's teapot I was referring to...that is merely an analogy. My teapot IS real and ferries the PHPs between the Planet Gong and here... :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPrince77 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Well here are some proof i've found, if you are truly interested.... now what proof do you have as to No existance???? I'm truly interested http://everystudent.com/wires/Godreal.html?gclid=CJOq5LzOp5kCFQudnAodtC_cpQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Well here are some proof i've found, if you are truly interested.... now what proof do you have as to No existance???? I'm truly interested http://everystudent.com/wires/Godreal.html?gclid=CJOq5LzOp5kCFQudnAodtC_cpQ dear daftprince, Get a dictionary... look up the word proof look up the word supposition revise your last post (alternatively, there are many organisations who now offer deprogramming for brainwashed people) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I knew Russell's teapot and the FSM would come up. These are patently ridiculous arguments. It's insane to believe in a god modeled after spaghetti and meatballs.Sane people worship the invisible pink unicorn ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_pink_unicorn). tsskkkk ... don't be stupid. next thing u'll be telling us virgins will be giving birth to the son of god !!! honestly some ppl !!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Well here are some proof i've found, if you are truly interested.... now what proof do you have as to No existance???? I'm truly interested http://everystudent.com/wires/Godreal.html?gclid=CJOq5LzOp5kCFQudnAodtC_cpQ 1) If the evil in the world is intended by god he is not good. If it violates his intentions he is not almighty. God can't be both almighty and good. There are many objections to this, but none that holds since god is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil. Besides, if only god can create he must have created evil. If somebody else (the devil) created evil, how can one know that god, and not Satan created the universe...(David Hume) 2) Another way to disprove the almighty god is that omnipotence leads to paradoxes. Can god make a rock that is too heavy for him to carry? Can god build a wall that even he can't tear down? Also, if god knows everything, he knows what he will do in the "future" (in any dimension, not necessary the time dimension). He must have known that from the very start of his own existence. Thus god's actions are predestined. God is tied by faith, he has no free will. If god has no free will god is not omnipotent. Another way to put it is that to be able to make plans and decisions one must act over time. If god stands above time he can not do that and has no free will. Indeed, if god stands above all dimensions god is dimensionless - a singularity, nothing, void! Besides there can exist no free wills at all if god is almighty. If you had a free will, god wouldn't know what you would do tomorrow and wouldn't be omnipotent. 3) Let's say that everything must be created, and that was done by an omnipotent god. A god which stands above time, space, moral and existence, which is self containing and in it self has it's own cause. This entity can surely be replaced by the known world. The world stands above time, space, moral, existence, is self containing and in it has it's own meaning. Most theists agree that god has a nature. Then we must raise the question, who created god's nature? If we just accept that god has a nature and exists without a cause, why not say that the known world just is and that the laws of physics are what they are, without a cause? God is not really an explanation, only a non-explanation. It is impossible to gain information from non-information so God as an explanation is a dead end. When we have said that the reason for something is that 'god did it that way' there is no way to understand it any further. We just shrug our shoulders and accept things as they are. To explain the unknown by god is only to explain how it happened, not why. If we are to investigate the world and build our views of life from the world, we cannot assume a god. Because adding god as an explanation leaves as many, if not more questions than it explains, god has to be removed with Occam's razor if we are serious in investigating the world. :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 p.s Odin f**king rules, ok? :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condotown Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Why are some people so damn sure about the afterlife when they haven't even got their present life figured out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Why are some people so damn sure about the afterlife when they haven't even got their present life figured out? i'ts probably a survival advantage, in evolutionary terms. who is more likely to take on the wooly mammoth, so that the whole tribe can survive? the smart guy or the guy who believes God's got his back? and if the guy is the one in ten (hypothetically speaking) who kills the mammoth without getting gored, who are the chicks gonna dig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbroker Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I knew Russell's teapot and the FSM would come up. These are patently ridiculous arguments. It's insane to believe in a god modeled after spaghetti and meatballs.Sane people worship the invisible pink unicorn ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_pink_unicorn). tsskkkk ... don't be stupid. next thing u'll be telling us virgins will be giving birth to the son of god !!! honestly some ppl !!!!!!!!!!!!! You're just full of anecdotes and idiocies, aren't you? If there were a way to get a live report from hell, I'd like to give it to you so others may learn what not to do in the heretofore. But even then there will always be the geniuses (sound familiar, Tullamore?) who think they know better. Why are some people so damn sure about the afterlife when they haven't even got their present life figured out? In a word: faith. It's interesting how "faith" or "belief" works. How it has the capacity to motivate others. How when there is no "proof" or historical precedent to suggest something exists, someone's faith is ridiculed by, shall we say, the less enlightened. We don't see it, so it must not be there, they say. And they say it so smugly too. Its also interesting when things get VERY bad, how faith may be the only thing left keeping someone from the suicide solution. Faith drives human progress. The industrial revolution and the enormous changes we've experienced due to technological change transpired because of several individuals' faith to create it and motivate others to participate. This little economic debacle we're experiencing now is also going to inspire others to change the way we do things (as others less faithful will continue to point fingers) because of FAITH things will improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 How bout doing this...How bout flipping the script and answering this question....Can i prove there is No God???? What factual proof do i have in saying there is no God????? I'm not talking about evolution or creationism, i'm talking about true tangible evidence....Does anyone have any true tangible evidence to prove there is No God???? can u prove there is no big flying f**king teapot ?? it's about as likely as ur god !! No i can't prove it...Just like you cannot either....Everything is built on faith except that it isn't. the question of the existence of a God cannot be disproven, and cannot be proven unless and until he/she/it does something that actually leaves evidence. some *things*--things such as the existence of God, are matters of 'faith' because there is no evidence either way. but if you say that the acceleration of gravity cannot be disproven you are either ignorant or dishonest. in fact, every activity that falls under the umbrella of "science" deals fundamentally and ONLy with things that CAN, IN PRINCIPLE, BE DISPROVEN. things that are can never be disproven are fundamentally beyond the reach of science. if not, not. for matters that fall under the umbrella of science, i'll trust science. if not, you go ahead and stand in front of a speeding bus and see if your faith saves you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Well here are some proof i've found, if you are truly interested.... now what proof do you have as to No existance???? I'm truly interested http://everystudent.com/wires/Godreal.html?gclid=CJOq5LzOp5kCFQudnAodtC_cpQ firstly, if you had even the faintest whiff of how reason works, you would know that one in principle cannot prove that something doesn't exist. in other words, your question is innately stupid and/or dishonest. secondly, i looked at the essay you cite. it is propaganda. if you are unable to distinguish between FACT and OPINION you are too stupid and/or dishonest to play with the adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 ]Why are some people so damn sure about the afterlife when they haven't even got their present life figured out? In a word: faith. It's interesting how "faith" or "belief" works. How it has the capacity to motivate others. How when there is no "proof" or historical precedent to suggest something exists, someone's faith is ridiculed by, shall we say, the less enlightened. We don't see it, so it must not be there, they say. And they say it so smugly too. Its also interesting when things get VERY bad, how faith may be the only thing left keeping someone from the suicide solution. Faith drives human progress. The industrial revolution and the enormous changes we've experienced due to technological change transpired because of several individuals' faith to create it and motivate others to participate. This little economic debacle we're experiencing now is also going to inspire others to change the way we do things (as others less faithful will continue to point fingers) because of FAITH things will improve. this would be historic, if anyting that was said on TF actually mattered in any way, in that for once you and i agree, at least in the broad strokes. i would add that while it is hypothetical at this point, you've just made the case for how the ability to have faith (in the religious as well as the more mundane sense) provides a rather strong evolutionary advantage, regardless of what's actually out there. thus in principle, even if it can be shown that we are genetically predisposed to having faith, it neither disproves nor disproves what we have faith in. faith is inherently beyond science and 'proof.' it also should butt the **** out of things that are *not* beyond science and 'proof' in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPrince77 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Well here are some proof i've found, if you are truly interested.... now what proof do you have as to No existance???? I'm truly interested http://everystudent.com/wires/Godreal.html?gclid=CJOq5LzOp5kCFQudnAodtC_cpQ firstly, if you had even the faintest whiff of how reason works, you would know that one in principle cannot prove that something doesn't exist. in other words, your question is innately stupid and/or dishonest. secondly, i looked at the essay you cite. it is propaganda. if you are unable to distinguish between FACT and OPINION you are too stupid and/or dishonest to play with the adults. Before you start throwing words like stupid or dishonest, consider what you are saying: 1. In principle one cannot prove that something doesn't exist????~ Firstly, what has me perplexed is how you seem to be the only individual in the world among scholars who feel this way. Secondly, Hundreds of books, articles, and theories, are written by Atheist worldwide, attempting to clearly prove the nonexistance of God with carefully deductive and inductive reasoning. The idea of someone disproving if something exist or not, is similar to someone proving/disproving if 'Atlantis' was ever really existed. It is a fair and clearly sought question that those, theist and atheist, must consider. It is no different than someone asking 'why do i believe what i believe'...to not have a clear and well sought answer is to be living with blind faith glasses. 2.Propaganda????~ Firstly, make sure you understand fully what propaganda is and what it is not....The cite clearly explains how a renowned former Atheist came to a conclusion based on scientific research, how individuals within the scientific community are using math and science to assist in proving the existence of God. It is not meant to "sound the troops", it is not using some type of philosophical wordage, it is not providing half truths or whole lies...The article, by means of the scientific method, shows that scientist are on the verge of proving, the existence of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Well here are some proof i've found, if you are truly interested.... now what proof do you have as to No existance???? I'm truly interested http://everystudent.com/wires/Godreal.html?gclid=CJOq5LzOp5kCFQudnAodtC_cpQ where is ur proof that the flying teapot and spaghetti monster don't exist ?? or the pink f**king unicorn ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I knew Russell's teapot and the FSM would come up. These are patently ridiculous arguments. It's insane to believe in a god modeled after spaghetti and meatballs.Sane people worship the invisible pink unicorn ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_pink_unicorn). tsskkkk ... don't be stupid. next thing u'll be telling us virgins will be giving birth to the son of god !!! honestly some ppl !!!!!!!!!!!!! You're just full of anecdotes and idiocies, aren't you? If there were a way to get a live report from hell, I'd like to give it to you so others may learn what not to do in the heretofore. But even then there will always be the geniuses (sound familiar, Tullamore?) who think they know better. u do that .... but if u don't mind i won't hold my breath waiting for ur report !!! Why are some people so damn sure about the afterlife when they haven't even got their present life figured out? In a word: faith. It's interesting how "faith" or "belief" works. How it has the capacity to motivate others. How when there is no "proof" or historical precedent to suggest something exists, someone's faith is ridiculed by, shall we say, the less enlightened. We don't see it, so it must not be there, they say. And they say it so smugly too. Its also interesting when things get VERY bad, how faith may be the only thing left keeping someone from the suicide solution. Faith drives human progress. The industrial revolution and the enormous changes we've experienced due to technological change transpired because of several individuals' faith to create it and motivate others to participate. This little economic debacle we're experiencing now is also going to inspire others to change the way we do things (as others less faithful will continue to point fingers) because of FAITH things will improve. yeahhh ... faith in MAN's ability to make things better .... so what exactly has all that got to do with the giant teapot or spaghetti monster ???? and as for being less enlightened .... don't make me laugh !!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang_subson Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Practically speaking, you'll be hardpressed to find atheists who make the strong argument that god/gods absolutely can't exist. More typically, they'll say things like "the probability is near zero" or "I don't believe in stuff for which there's no evidence" or "I believe in the Abrahamic god to the same extent I believe in Thor". Even Richard Dawkins speaks in these terms. I'm curious to know whether DarkPrince or VBroker would absolutely rule out the possibility of Thor's existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'm no believer in "a" god but see so many coincidences that it seems impossible for them to be just coincidences. I do believe in karma and feel its best to keep on a good path as it feels better with more of those illusionary and fleeting happy moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'm no believer in "a" god but see so many coincidences that it seems impossible for them to be just coincidences. I do believe in karma and feel its best to keep on a good path as it feels better with more of those illusionary and fleeting happy moments. i do believe most of us feel it's best to keep on a good path and how individuals decide to keep on that path (or what that good path is) is a matter for themselves. but for ppl to come on here and talk about things being fact and proven when the exact opposite is true, does tend to get on my nerves just a little bit !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I'm no believer in "a" god but see so many coincidences that it seems impossible for them to be just coincidences. I do believe in karma and feel its best to keep on a good path as it feels better with more of those illusionary and fleeting happy moments. i do believe most of us feel it's best to keep on a good path and how individuals decide to keep on that path (or what that good path is) is a matter for themselves. but for ppl to come on here and talk about things being fact and proven when the exact opposite is true, does tend to get on my nerves just a little bit !!! its the smell eh' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbroker Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Why are some people so damn sure about the afterlife when they haven't even got their present life figured out? In a word: faith. It's interesting how "faith" or "belief" works. How it has the capacity to motivate others. How when there is no "proof" or historical precedent to suggest something exists, someone's faith is ridiculed by, shall we say, the less enlightened. We don't see it, so it must not be there, they say. And they say it so smugly too. Its also interesting when things get VERY bad, how faith may be the only thing left keeping someone from the suicide solution. Faith drives human progress. The industrial revolution and the enormous changes we've experienced due to technological change transpired because of several individuals' faith to create it and motivate others to participate. This little economic debacle we're experiencing now is also going to inspire others to change the way we do things (as others less faithful will continue to point fingers) because of FAITH things will improve. yeahhh ... faith in MAN's ability to make things better .... so what exactly has all that got to do with the giant teapot or spaghetti monster ???? and as for being less enlightened .... don't make me laugh !!!!!!! Mental limitations being as they are I won't waste my time explaining it since you ain't capable of grasping it. In between laughs, I imagine this might register: I have faith you'll very soon be in another sloppy, liquor stupor somewhere in the BKK area. I can only imagine the things you're "seeing" in that lovely condition. I'll hold my breath...go ahead and prove me wrong. Bottoms up............ Practically speaking, you'll be hardpressed to find atheists who make the strong argument that god/gods absolutely can't exist. More typically, they'll say things like "the probability is near zero" or "I don't believe in stuff for which there's no evidence" or "I believe in the Abrahamic god to the same extent I believe in Thor". Even Richard Dawkins speaks in these terms. Funny how the Luddites had a similar mentality. They would not only deny the possibility of new inventions but actually FEAR their coming to pass. The greatest faith one can have is the belief in the Almighty because you don't get "redemption" for your beliefs; proof that you were correct to live with certain principles. This allows others of no faith to propagate their fears of the unknown. I'm curious to know whether DarkPrince or VBroker would absolutely rule out the possibility of Thor's existence. Irrelevant. Who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 and stepping in it makes it smell more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Why are some people so damn sure about the afterlife when they haven't even got their present life figured out? In a word: faith. It's interesting how "faith" or "belief" works. How it has the capacity to motivate others. How when there is no "proof" or historical precedent to suggest something exists, someone's faith is ridiculed by, shall we say, the less enlightened. We don't see it, so it must not be there, they say. And they say it so smugly too. Its also interesting when things get VERY bad, how faith may be the only thing left keeping someone from the suicide solution. Faith drives human progress. The industrial revolution and the enormous changes we've experienced due to technological change transpired because of several individuals' faith to create it and motivate others to participate. This little economic debacle we're experiencing now is also going to inspire others to change the way we do things (as others less faithful will continue to point fingers) because of FAITH things will improve. yeahhh ... faith in MAN's ability to make things better .... so what exactly has all that got to do with the giant teapot or spaghetti monster ???? and as for being less enlightened .... don't make me laugh !!!!!!! Mental limitations being as they are I won't waste my time explaining it since you ain't capable of grasping it. i'll take that as meaning u can't explain, but try and use a pathetic excuse for not being able to ... nice one !!! In between laughs, I imagine this might register: I have faith you'll very soon be in another sloppy, liquor stupor somewhere in the BKK area. I can only imagine the things you're "seeing" in that lovely condition. I'll hold my breath...go ahead and prove me wrong. Bottoms up............ god u r so funny ..... and original ..... yawnnnnnn !!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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