Medical Truth or Fiction

[Dave40]

Does shaving really causes hair to grow back more, grow faster, thicker and coarser ???

No!!!! http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1647527.htm

[Hobbes]

Did I claim that MSG is good or bad? Read my post.

You disproved nothing I said.

1) MSG is not aspartate.

2) Aspartate is not a sweetener.

3) MSG is not L-cystine.

4) Neither aspartame nor MSG is chlorinated.

5) It's unlikely that aspartame gets catabolized into MSG.

And you sir are VERY wrong. You call yourself a biochemist?

http://www.msgtruth.org/whatisit.htm

Based on your previous claim that kissing transmits HIV (the foundation to which is one (1) case apparently) I'd tend to believe the Biochemist, yes.

[Stramash]

Did I claim that MSG is good or bad? Read my post.

You disproved nothing I said.

1) MSG is not aspartate.

2) Aspartate is not a sweetener.

3) MSG is not L-cystine.

4) Neither aspartame nor MSG is chlorinated.

5) It's unlikely that aspartame gets catabolized into MSG.

And you sir are VERY wrong. You call yourself a biochemist?

http://www.msgtruth.org/whatisit.htm

Based on your previous claim that kissing transmits HIV (the foundation to which is one (1) case apparently) I'd tend to believe the Biochemist, yes.

to be fair to the Doc, it IS possible for HIV to be transmitted via kissing, but only where there is blood present.

(the truth is, Mike is actually a vet who tends to ailing water buffalo so dont be too hard on him :wink: )

[Hobbes]

Did I claim that MSG is good or bad? Read my post.

You disproved nothing I said.

1) MSG is not aspartate.

2) Aspartate is not a sweetener.

3) MSG is not L-cystine.

4) Neither aspartame nor MSG is chlorinated.

5) It's unlikely that aspartame gets catabolized into MSG.

And you sir are VERY wrong. You call yourself a biochemist?

http://www.msgtruth.org/whatisit.htm

Based on your previous claim that kissing transmits HIV (the foundation to which is one (1) case apparently) I'd tend to believe the Biochemist, yes.

to be fair to the Doc, it IS possible for HIV to be transmitted via kissing, but only where there is blood present.

(the truth is, Mike is actually a vet who tends to ailing water buffalo so dont be too hard on him :wink: )

Now, I don't know how the good doctor is kissing but to your average punter kissing isn't listed as a blood-letting activity. He did say kissing and that would suggest he tried to imply exchange of saliva alone would be enough to transmit HIV and that quite clearly is bollocks (even to the non-medically trained). If he had specified kissing a leper, mouth-ulcer sufferer or some sort of other mouth bleeding individual then sure fair enough but he didn't.

Mosquitoes too transmit HIV or so is claimed and although this would even make sense it hasn't been proved yet either (I think).

:twisted:

[Stramash]

Did I claim that MSG is good or bad? Read my post.

You disproved nothing I said.

1) MSG is not aspartate.

2) Aspartate is not a sweetener.

3) MSG is not L-cystine.

4) Neither aspartame nor MSG is chlorinated.

5) It's unlikely that aspartame gets catabolized into MSG.

And you sir are VERY wrong. You call yourself a biochemist?

http://www.msgtruth.org/whatisit.htm

Based on your previous claim that kissing transmits HIV (the foundation to which is one (1) case apparently) I'd tend to believe the Biochemist, yes.

to be fair to the Doc, it IS possible for HIV to be transmitted via kissing, but only where there is blood present.

(the truth is, Mike is actually a vet who tends to ailing water buffalo so dont be too hard on him :wink: )

Now, I don't know how the good doctor is kissing but to your average punter kissing isn't listed as a blood-letting activity. He did say kissing and that would suggest he tried to imply exchange of saliva alone would be enough to transmit HIV and that quite clearly is bollocks (even to the non-medically trained). If he had specified kissing a leper, mouth-ulcer sufferer or some sort of other mouth bleeding individual then sure fair enough but he didn't.

Mosquitoes too transmit HIV or so is claimed and although this would even make sense it hasn't been proved yet either (I think).

:twisted:

Very true; blood is not a normal part of kissing, but there are instances where it can happen; gum disease, mouth sores etc, as you mentioned.

It is rare, which is why there is only one documented and proven case of transmission this way.

I am not medically trained, but sexual health is a huge part of working with addictions where hepatitis and HIV are two of the main risks, along with STDs from irresponsible intercourse when UTI.

On the mosquito question, the CDC have said that as far as studies have shown (conducted in areas with high incidences of both HIV and mosquitos) there is NO chance of transmission from mosquitos or other insects.

Now this next bit is just a complete guess from me, and I wonder if any research has been done in this are; but you would imagine that mosquitos COULD be a source of transmission, so is there perhaps some enzyme or something in the mosquito's body chemistry that destroys or neutralises the HIV?

As I say, this is just pure supposition on my part, and would welcome posts from the biochemist and the non Mike medical community!! :wink:

[SweetieBabie]

People bite the wall in their own mouth while eating too fast all the time, that would leave a open cut. init???

So is it true to not brush your teeth right before kissing some stranger ???

[Stramash]

People bite the wall in their own mouth while eating too fast all the time, that would leave a open cut. init???

So is it true to not brush your teeth right before kissing some stranger ???

another possibility yes Tonia, but it is actually rarely that those sort of bites draw blood.

If your gums bleed when you brush your teeth, then you probably have some form of gum disease anyway, but I would reccomend brushing before kissing stranger, especially if you have been eating garlic, otherwise the stranger you kiss will remain a stranger!!!

[farang_subson]

Sweety...it seems that shaving can thicken underarm skin! ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18489309?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum ) .

I didn't see any peer-reviewed papers that specifically address your question.

Here's a weird one: Is daily shaving of axillary and pubic hair a feature of suicide in the Muslim community? ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19259019?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum )

******************

As for mosquito transmission, I did the same thing anybody else can do...check out the peer-reviewed literature at pubmed.org or other sources. Enter some good key words, and then you're free to waddle through all the jargon. Without passwords, you usually get only the abstract, but that is often enough. Undoubtedly, there are some nuts out there with pretty websites who think the science community is conspiring against mosquito-transmitted HIV...this is how you bypass the nuts and go straight to the science.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2479697?ordinalpos=77&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

That's an example of the kind of stuff you can dig up in a few minutes. To sum up...there are a lot of probabilistic barriers the virus has to pass through before it can be transmitted via a bug. That's why folks shouldn't get their panties in a bunch over these things.

Assuming the 1 death via kissing is true...you should be sh*t scared of molasses, as 20 times that number have died by drowning in the goo ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Molasses_Disaster ).

*****************

As regards my exchange with "Dr_Mike", any interested 3rd parties can simply check out the chemical structures of the compounds mentioned above at Wikipedia. You don't need any science training, really...just compare the shapes of the different molecules, and you'll know if they're the same or different (and be sure not to confuse aspartate and aspartame, as Neo points out).

[Stramash]

Sweety...it seems that shaving can thicken underarm skin! ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18489309?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum ) .

I didn't see any peer-reviewed papers that specifically address your question.

Here's a weird one: Is daily shaving of axillary and pubic hair a feature of suicide in the Muslim community? ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19259019?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum )

******************

As for mosquito transmission, I did the same thing anybody else can do...check out the peer-reviewed literature at pubmed.org or other sources. Enter some good key words, and then you're free to waddle through all the jargon. Without passwords, you usually get only the abstract, but that is often enough. Undoubtedly, there are some nuts out there with pretty websites who think the science community is conspiring against mosquito-transmitted HIV...this is how you bypass the nuts and go straight to the science.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2479697?ordinalpos=77&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

That's an example of the kind of stuff you can dig up in a few minutes. To sum up...there are a lot of probabilistic barriers the virus has to pass through before it can be transmitted via a bug. That's why folks shouldn't get their panties in a bunch over these things.

Assuming the 1 death via kissing is true...you should be sh*t scared of molasses, as 20 times that number have died by drowning in the goo ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Molasses_Disaster ).

*****************

As regards my exchange with "Dr_Mike", any interested 3rd parties can simply check out the chemical structures of the compounds mentioned above at Wikipedia. You don't need any science training, really...just compare the shapes of the different molecules, and you'll know if they're the same or different (and be sure not to confuse aspartate and aspartame, as Neo points out).

My bad I think. I may have said 1 documented DEATH from HIV via kissing. I should have said 1 documented TRANSMISSION of HIV. And to qualify it further, the CDC did announce it as the PROBABLE cause, not the definite cause.

So yes, be more scared of molasses!!!!

[Hobbes]

Did I claim that MSG is good or bad? Read my post.

You disproved nothing I said.

1) MSG is not aspartate.

2) Aspartate is not a sweetener.

3) MSG is not L-cystine.

4) Neither aspartame nor MSG is chlorinated.

5) It's unlikely that aspartame gets catabolized into MSG.

And you sir are VERY wrong. You call yourself a biochemist?

http://www.msgtruth.org/whatisit.htm

Based on your previous claim that kissing transmits HIV (the foundation to which is one (1) case apparently) I'd tend to believe the Biochemist, yes.

to be fair to the Doc, it IS possible for HIV to be transmitted via kissing, but only where there is blood present.

(the truth is, Mike is actually a vet who tends to ailing water buffalo so dont be too hard on him :wink: )

Now, I don't know how the good doctor is kissing but to your average punter kissing isn't listed as a blood-letting activity. He did say kissing and that would suggest he tried to imply exchange of saliva alone would be enough to transmit HIV and that quite clearly is bollocks (even to the non-medically trained). If he had specified kissing a leper, mouth-ulcer sufferer or some sort of other mouth bleeding individual then sure fair enough but he didn't.

Mosquitoes too transmit HIV or so is claimed and although this would even make sense it hasn't been proved yet either (I think).

:twisted:

...

On the mosquito question, the CDC have said that as far as studies have shown (conducted in areas with high incidences of both HIV and mosquitos) there is NO chance of transmission from mosquitos or other insects.

Now this next bit is just a complete guess from me, and I wonder if any research has been done in this are; but you would imagine that mosquitos COULD be a source of transmission, so is there perhaps some enzyme or something in the mosquito's body chemistry that destroys or neutralises the HIV?

As I say, this is just pure supposition on my part, and would welcome posts from the biochemist and the non Mike medical community!! :wink:

Exactly Iain, and yet having little bloodsucking mosquitoes help to spread HIV shouldn't really be such a far fetched assumption (as opposed to kissing) and yet research as you pointed out (and I haven't really followed it much since I left Africa) rather points to that not being the case. Luckily one might want to add, for otherwise the already dire situation in regard to HIV in Sub-Saharan Africa would be really hopeless.

As for the reasons as to why Mosquitoes appear to be perfectly happy to kill their 'clientele' with Malaria alone your guess is as good as mine but I would think that there are some curious lab-rats researching away somewhere to find that out (and how it may be useful).

[Oo.Cloud.oO]

Does shaving really causes hair to grow back more, grow faster, thicker and coarser ???

Is that why sooooooo many Thai girls have hairy legs and arms and refused to shave ??? Many thai girls have mustache above the lips too.

eww

but i whether shaving does this or not FOR CERTAIN i dont know

i do feel its like that with me

when i shave my face its back consistently in 2 day thing n thicker even looks darker i think

[Dr_Mike]

http://aids.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=aids&cdn=health&tm=37&f=10&tt=12&bt=1&bts=1&zu=ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Publications/mmwr/wk/mm4627.pdf

I'm not going to debate the associations of aspartate and aspartame; one being an enzyme chain and one being a generic name for a sweetener based on enzyme chains, however they ARE related and a search on Wikipedia will prove that. The basic point of my journal entry was simply to show that MSG is really bad for humans. Believe who you wish, but the "biochemist" is telling you a line of bull.

Normally, most of these excitotoxins are secreted from microglial immune cells in the central nervous system. This not only destroys these myelin-producing cells it also breaks down the blood-brain barrier (BBB), allowing excitotoxins in the blood stream to enter the site of damage. Aspartame contains the excitotoxin aspartate as 40% of its molecular structure. Numerous studies have shown that consuming aspartame can significantly elevate the excitotoxin level in the blood. There is a common situation during which the excitotoxin exposure is even greater. When aspartate (as aspartame) is combined in the diet with monosodium glutamate (MSG) blood levels are several fold higher than normal. With the BBB damaged, as in MS, these excitotoxins can freely enter the site of injury,greatly magnifying the damage. So, we see that dietary excitotoxins, such as aspartame and MSG, can greatly magnify the damage produced in multiple sclerosis. Likewise, excitotoxins have been shown to breakdown the BBB as well.

http://www.rense.com/general53/ms.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy

We all bleed from the gums, it's a normal human process, even without any mouth disease. However, people with AIDS usually have several other diseases, bacteria and viruses due to the lowered immune system. More commonly they suffer from sores in the mouth as well. No need to go into details here unless somebody requests it. AIDS is mostly transmitted by blood, semen and vaginal fluid. Oral sex is a very common method of transmission.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa17.htm

It is important to point out that viruses are physically MUCH smaller than bacterium and that viruses are OFTEN transmitted by mosquitoes. AIDS is caused by a virus. Mosquitoes do not have any agent that kills viruses per say. However I don't know if there are any recorded or proven cases of getting AIDS by insect bites.

[123Imperfectionist]

Sounds like a geeky forum ... I'm off

[Stramash]

It is important to point out that viruses are physically MUCH smaller than bacterium and that viruses are OFTEN transmitted by mosquitoes. AIDS is a virus. Mosquitoes do not have any agent that kills viruses per say. However I don't know if there are any recorded or proven cases of getting AIDS by insect bites.

Em, Mike my learned friend; AIDS is NOT a virus. HIV is a virus and it is better to discuss transmission of HIV as no-one transmits AIDS; they transmit HIV, and these days many people have many years of being HIV positive without developing full blown AIDS.

And if you read more of your beloved CDC's research on mosquitos, you would see that despite extensive research in this area, they have seen NO links at all between mosquitos and HIV transmission. Now given that the research was conducted in areas with high levels of both HIV rates and mosquito infestation, I would say that, for now, that argument is null and void.

[Dr_Mike]

It is important to point out that viruses are physically MUCH smaller than bacterium and that viruses are OFTEN transmitted by mosquitoes. AIDS is a virus. Mosquitoes do not have any agent that kills viruses per say. However I don't know if there are any recorded or proven cases of getting AIDS by insect bites.

Em, Mike my learned friend; AIDS is NOT a virus. HIV is a virus and it is better to discuss transmission of HIV as no-one transmits AIDS; they transmit HIV, and these days many people have many years of being HIV positive without developing full blown AIDS.

And if you read more of your beloved CDC's research on mosquitos, you would see that despite extensive research in this area, they have seen NO links at all between mosquitos and HIV transmission. Now given that the research was conducted in areas with high levels of both HIV rates and mosquito infestation, I would say that, for now, that argument is null and void.

I stand corrected by omitting the fact that HIV is the virus and AIDS is the result of the Virus.

[Stramash]

Oral sex is a very common method of transmission.

well that depends on your definition of 'common'

Transmission of HIV via oral sex has always been considered a possibility, but one of low risk. In several cohorts of patients with primary infection, transmission via oral sex seemed to be the only route in a small but real proportion of patients. In a very rigorous study, Dillon and colleagues appear to have clearly pinpointed oral transmission in approximately 7% of primary infection cases. Originally, 16.4% of cases were thought to be due to oral transmission; however, on careful review, more than half of these cases had other possible risk factors.

(http://cme.medscape.com/viewarticle/420640)

Mike I both like and respect you, but if this is not your area of expertise, please refrain from making such long winded and partly inaccurate statements on what is a very real threat no matter where you are in the world.

[Dr_Mike]

Iain, you are a good friend, I agree with you.

You are correct, my fields of expertise are not in those particular areas/diseases of course.

I work in the field of Endochrinology: Hormones, Diabetes, Metabolic disorders, etc. however I am also involved in many otherl aspects of medicine. In cases that are not my field of study: I refer patients to other specialists of course.

Perhaps TF is not the right place to be discussing my medical interests, therefore I won't be commenting as such anymore on this site.

(listening to Parkman....)

[farang_subson]

So which of my remaining four points do you still regard as "bull", Dr. Mike?

1) MSG is not aspartate.

2) MSG is not L-cystine.

3) Neither aspartame nor MSG is chlorinated.

4) It is unlikely that aspartame is catabolized into MSG.

[Hobbes]

http://aids.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=aids&cdn=health&tm=37&f=10&tt=12&bt=1&bts=1&zu=ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Publications/mmwr/wk/mm4627.pdf

......

We all bleed from the gums, it's a normal human process, even without any mouth disease. However, people with AIDS usually have several other diseases, bacteria and viruses due to the lowered immune system. More commonly they suffer from sores in the mouth as well. No need to go into details here unless somebody requests it. AIDS is mostly transmitted by blood, semen and vaginal fluid. Oral sex is a very common method of transmission.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa17.htm

It is important to point out that viruses are physically MUCH smaller than bacterium and that viruses are OFTEN transmitted by mosquitoes. AIDS is a virus. Mosquitoes do not have any agent that kills viruses per say. However I don't know if there are any recorded or proven cases of getting AIDS by insect bites.

Sorry, but you should perhaps have edited it once more. Firstly, AIDS is a disease last time I checked and not a virus. The virus that causes AIDS is called HIV. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Ok, sure we all bleed from our gums even when healthy at times. Equally, people who suffer from AIDS can suffer from all sorts of other unpleasant infections that can also lead to blood in the mouth due to their weakened immune system, fair enough. Many people however, especially in the industrialised parts of the world, may be carriers of the virus HIV yet suffer not (yet) form AIDS and hence won't display any of those 'side-effects'. They're just like any other healthy person out there.

The pdf document you attached describes the one case (if I understood correctly) were kissing was perceived to be cause of the infection. The authors didn't yet completely exclude that the infection was transmitted by some other way. Kissing in this particular case was just the most likely explanation.

Given the large number of people who are infected by HIV and/or have fallen victim to it, I would just expect well, more people having fallen prey to the 'kiss of death' if that was such a 'likely' source of infection. As it stands I will still be quite happy to share my bottle or drink with someone who is HIV positive and leave the business of social exclusion to those that can't help but being fearful.

As for the Mosquito question, it looks like CDC has answered that one too already. As I said, those little bloodsuckers will give you all sorts of nasty diseases (some of which kill you faster than reading one of JD's diatribes) but not HIV. Another source that goes into a bit more of details as to why is here.

So boys 'n girls, check under beds for any ghost or creepy crawlies and sleep safely.

[inamorato25]

One of the problems in all of these issues -- from kissing mosquitoes to brushing your teeth with aspartame -- is that all of us -- medically trained or otherwise -- are faithfully turning to Wikis and other sources to back up our respective positions. Nobody is an expert (although the biochemist seemed to know what he was talking about, but how the hell would I know -- I barely made it through biochem). The point of the forum was "myth busters" not "pissing contests."

Let the games continue.

[Dr_Mike]

So which of my remaining four points do you still regard as "bull", Dr. Mike?

1) MSG is not aspartate.

2) MSG is not L-cystine.

3) Neither aspartame nor MSG is chlorinated.

4) It is unlikely that aspartame is catabolized into MSG.

Read the links on my post. They explain it exactly and accurately.

This is a pissing contest on a dating site.

SIZE does matter. Perhaps that is your issue?

I am off this forum.

[Stramash]

Iain, you are a good friend, I agree with you.

You are correct, my fields of expertise are not in those particular areas/diseases of course.

I work in the field of Endochrinology: Hormones, Diabetes, Metabolic disorders, etc. however I am also involved in many otherl aspects of medicine. In cases that are not my field of study: I refer patients to other specialists of course.

Perhaps TF is not the right place to be discussing my medical interests, therefore I won't be commenting as such anymore on this site.

(listening to Parkman....)

Mike, I don't want you to refrain from contributing, but since this is not your area of expertise, just to think a bit more or read a bit more before posting. You are still qualified in medicine which gives you more in depth knowledge when reading research, even if it is not in your chosen field.

Because HIV transmission rates are so high amongst intravenous drug users, all aspects of sexual health has been a huge part of my work and training. That said, whenever I read cerain pieces of research, I don't understand some of the medical jargon. So, it is good to have someone who can, as long as they don't go over the top or make wild scaremongering and inaccurate claims that would be more at home in the tabloid press!!!

[Hobbes]

Sorry, Iain and Dr. Mike for being a bit late to the party. I did read your attachments and looked for some sources to make sure I'm not talking cobblers. Well, it won't happen again. :wink:

[Dr_Mike]

The only reason I became involved in this forum at all is because it was started aimed at me from the very first post.

OUT

[Stramash]

Sorry, Iain and Dr. Mike for being a bit late to the party. I did read your attachments and looked for some sources to make sure I'm not talking cobblers. Well, it won't happen again. :wink:

saying you won't talk cobblers agin is like Ciaran saying he's teetotal!!!