Why Drink?

[admin]

I find it difficult to wind down. Once my brain starts off on something it just keeps going. So, if I'm working I might still be thinking about business things many hours after. For instance, many people have seen me out jotting down notes when I'm out. I always carry a pen and piece of paper so if I have an idea or want to remind myself to do something.

For instance, I just yanked out my sheet of paper from tonight and I jotted down 70 items that I want to remind myself about. That's nor normal for me but I was thinking about domain names I might want to buy and so as one idea fed another idea that fed another idea and so on.

So, to some degree, I drink to wind down. Decompress. I drink to take my mind off of serious things (like work) so I can relax. After a few drinks I am more in the immediate moment.

That's not to say that I can't wind down without drinking but it's easier because that's exactly the effect alcohol has. I can get there faster with alcohol.

When I was in high-school and university I worked late night jobs. Basically you get home like 2 or 3am in the morning. I used to smoke pot when I got home from work because otherwise I wouldn't be able to sleep until 4 or 5am. If I got high I was out in 30 minutes.

And the reason I got high instead of drinking was because I didn't have the time to stay up for 2 or 3 hours to get drunk enough to fall asleep.

Unlike EB, I actually do like the taste of single malts and good red wines. I drink them because I do like the taste though I seldom drink single malts or wine for the "buzz" or to get drunk. I like them because I enjoy the complex flavors.

I'll just leave you with some Frank Sinatra quotes on the drink:

“Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy.”

“Basically, I'm for anything that gets you through the night - be it prayer, tranquilizers or a bottle of Jack Daniels.”

[Stramash]

and a quote from Dennis Hopper...

The alcohol was awful. I was a terrible alcoholic. I mean, people used to ask how much drugs I did. I said, `I only do drugs so I can drink more`. I was doing the coke so I could drink more. I mean, I don`t know any other reason. I`d start drinking in the morning. I`d drink all day long.

[admin]

although alcohol is generally regarded as a depressant, it can produce a biphasic response in some people and act as both a depressant and a stimulant. Plus you have to remember the current trend of red bull type drinks being used as a mixer (very much so in Thailand). And while strictly speaking it is not an aphrodisiac per se, it does help lower inhibitions, so can aid in, er, 'romantic' scenarios.

But you asked earlier why people drink excessively and regularly, so I guess you are stepping outside the social drinking scenario with your query.

As with other substance dependencies, many people drink to excess to forget, escape or block out traumatic or upsetting events. Alcoholism is as much of an addiction as heroin or benzos. And in fact, if you look at the various harm levels of various substances, both legal and illegal, alcohol has one of the highest harm ratings, and certainly has far more associated health risks than anything else.

I have to agree with your thoughts about alcohol not being a stimulant. I've always used it as a joke but drunkeness seems to follow a Bell Curve. I typically associate with with my pool game. Sober, I'm not all that good. After a few beers I loosen up and my game gets better. A few more and I actually shoot pretty well. But after that point, every drink afterwards is downhill.

In my own personal experience and being around people who drink, there is a upper effect to alcohol until people hit a threshold. After that it's all downhill.

There's also the factor that sober many people are very somber. After a few drinks as their inhibition degrades they become more animated and lively which gives the impression that alcohol is a slight upper in that without inhibition people do and say more than they would normally. Again, that's until you reach the threshold and then the depressant aspects become more obvious.

[Stramash]

although alcohol is generally regarded as a depressant, it can produce a biphasic response in some people and act as both a depressant and a stimulant. Plus you have to remember the current trend of red bull type drinks being used as a mixer (very much so in Thailand). And while strictly speaking it is not an aphrodisiac per se, it does help lower inhibitions, so can aid in, er, 'romantic' scenarios.

But you asked earlier why people drink excessively and regularly, so I guess you are stepping outside the social drinking scenario with your query.

As with other substance dependencies, many people drink to excess to forget, escape or block out traumatic or upsetting events. Alcoholism is as much of an addiction as heroin or benzos. And in fact, if you look at the various harm levels of various substances, both legal and illegal, alcohol has one of the highest harm ratings, and certainly has far more associated health risks than anything else.

I have to agree with your thoughts about alcohol not being a stimulant. I've always used it as a joke but drunkeness seems to follow a Bell Curve. I typically associate with with my pool game. Sober, I'm not all that good. After a few beers I loosen up and my game gets better. A few more and I actually shoot pretty well. But after that point, every drink afterwards is downhill.

In my own personal experience and being around people who drink, there is a upper effect to alcohol until people hit a threshold. After that it's all downhill.

There's also the factor that sober many people are very somber. After a few drinks as their inhibition degrades they become more animated and lively which gives the impression that alcohol is a slight upper in that without inhibition people do and say more than they would normally. Again, that's until you reach the threshold and then the depressant aspects become more obvious.

the biphasic effect very much depends on the individual, but your anecdote about pool playing (a very common one) reflects alcohol's habit of lowering inhibitions. This does not have to mean sexual inhibitions, but also increased confidence (chatting up the ladies or taking a shot you may not try at pool when stone cold) or heightened aggression. (hence the amount of fights caused by alcohol)

How alcohol affects you can be influenced by age, gender, condition, how much and when you ate, and any other drugs imbibed (whether prescription or illicit).

(need to stop there - my glass is empty :wink: )

[admin]

Oh am very sure that there are many on TF who fit the criteria for being labelled binge/problematic drinkers.

Here's a link to the AUDIT (Alcohol Use Disorders Identification Test) developed by the WHO which is used commonly by addictions agencies.

Be interesting to see the results some TF members get.

http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Alcohol-Use-Disorders-Identification-Test-%28AUDIT%29.htm

I've always had a problem with these "identification" tests because they are typically written by people who have never been an alcoholic. In many cases they're written by people who don't drink.

For instance, in the scoring section of the test it says:

a report of drinking 6 or more drinks on one occasion ever in the last year, should lead to a more detailed assessment of drinking and related problems (i.e. completion of the full questionnaire).

Really? Six or more drinks on one occasion? I could see if the question was whether you regularly drink six or more drinks or if you seldom drink less than six drinks but saying EVER in the last year is intentionally targeting a large audience.

The question doesn't even give a timeframe. What if I drank six beers over 12 hours at a 4th of July picnic. According to the 1 drink per hour guideline they give you for drinking and driving you would not even be intoxicated at one drink every other hour.

Nor does it even address things like body weight. A 100kg guy can drink a lot more than some 40kg girl. Wouldn't a 100kg guy who drank six drinks at a football game and was relatively okay be far different than some 40kg girl who downed six shots and was passed out in her own vomit?

I'm not trying to downplay the dangers of excessive drinking but I've yet to see a real alcoholic or drug addict take one of these tests and decide to check themselves in for treatment. All they tend to do is scare normal drinkers into thinking they have a problem.

[Stramash]

Oh am very sure that there are many on TF who fit the criteria for being labelled binge/problematic drinkers.

Here's a link to the AUDIT (Alcohol Use Disorders Identification Test) developed by the WHO which is used commonly by addictions agencies.

Be interesting to see the results some TF members get.

http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Alcohol-Use-Disorders-Identification-Test-%28AUDIT%29.htm

I've always had a problem with these "identification" tests because they are typically written by people who have never been an alcoholic. In many cases they're written by people who don't drink.

For instance, in the scoring section of the test it says:

a report of drinking 6 or more drinks on one occasion ever in the last year, should lead to a more detailed assessment of drinking and related problems (i.e. completion of the full questionnaire).

Really? Six or more drinks on one occasion? I could see if the question was whether you regularly drink six or more drinks or if you seldom drink less than six drinks but saying EVER in the last year is intentionally targeting a large audience.

The question doesn't even give a timeframe. What if I drank six beers over 12 hours at a 4th of July picnic. According to the 1 drink per hour guideline they give you for drinking and driving you would not even be intoxicated at one drink every other hour.

Nor does it even address things like body weight. A 100kg guy can drink a lot more than some 40kg girl. Wouldn't a 100kg guy who drank six drinks at a football game and was relatively okay be far different than some 40kg girl who downed six shots and was passed out in her own vomit?

I'm not trying to downplay the dangers of excessive drinking but I've yet to see a real alcoholic or drug addict take one of these tests and decide to check themselves in for treatment. All they tend to do is scare normal drinkers into thinking they have a problem.

Bill, it is a very basic base line test. The question on 6 or more drinks on one occasion only triggers completion of the rest of the test. (though I agree it is minimal). And of course it cannot address the factors I previously mentioned such as food intake, gender, age etc, otherwise a simple test would have a thousand variations.

The whole point of the AUDIT test is to allow a professional practitioner to identify within the parameters of a short and simple assessment whether there is the POSSIBILITY of problematic drinking patterns. There are then various other tools to examine the potential problem and then take into account the possible affecting factors mentioned.

I can understand your ambivalence, but the WHO AUDIT test has been proven highly effective as an initial assessment tool.

You have to remember; practitioners' case loads can be huge, and simple tools such as this identify clients who need more in depth assessment and work.

(I am sounding far too sensible - where's the JD bottle?)

[Stramash]

[but I've yet to see a real alcoholic or drug addict take one of these tests and decide to check themselves in for treatment.

although widely available online, the test is primarily an assessment tool for those in that line of work.

[admin]

Bill, it is a very basic base line test. The question on 6 or more drinks on one occasion only triggers completion of the rest of the test. (though I agree it is minimal). And of course it cannot address the factors I previously mentioned such as food intake, gender, age etc, otherwise a simple test would have a thousand variations.

The whole point of the AUDIT test is to allow a professional practitioner to identify within the parameters of a short and simple assessment whether there is the POSSIBILITY of problematic drinking patterns. There are then various other tools to examine the potential problem and then take into account the possible affecting factors mentioned.

I can understand your ambivalence, but the WHO AUDIT test has been proven highly effective as an initial assessment tool.

You have to remember; practitioners' case loads can be huge, and simple tools such as this identify clients who need more in depth assessment and work.

(I am sounding far too sensible - where's the JD bottle?)

I understand what you're saying but what I'm saying is that they cast a wide net.

Here's a simple medical problem test for you:

Are you breathing?

Based on this test 100% of people who have health problems have been identified using this testing methodology.

I know I'm being somewhat sarcastic but the test really does seem that stupid to me.

Many, many years ago when I was in the army we had an alcohol education training thing we had to attend. The people leading it were total tea toddlers. One of the women admitted she had never even had a drink in her life.

According to them we were all raging alcoholics.

Years later at a company I worked for we had a similar sort of alcohol education training session but the guy who taught it had been an alcoholic for 15 years before cleaning himself up. He pretty much sh*t on everything the army program taught.

He understood what it was to be an alcoholic. He knew the difference between drinking 6 beers over 12 hours and needing 6 beers to be able to go to work.

I would say if ten regular drinkers who I have in mind took the WHO test they would be identified as having a drinking problem though I would only really consider one of those ten to be a problem drinker. The rest drink, as some have already said in this thread, because they can. They enjoy the effects but don't necessarily need them.

Or what about my fellow military brethren who might be stationed in a combat environment and cannot drink for months at a time but come to Thailand and register a "yes" on almost every WHO question?

All I'm saying is that these tests are intentionally broad so they can claim a high success rate in identifying problem drinkers.

[eagle]

come on , Why ? do you really not know or do you just want to hear what pops up here. Alcohol and drugs are the same thing. Alcohol is a drug and people do drugs for many reasons, some good and some bad. You pop a pill or you down a double scotch you get the effect you've come to know. In highschool I experimented with a variety and today I drink a few beers and an occasional shot and some pot ( i mean medical marijuana ) the reason I still "enjoy these 2 mood altering substances is they are harmless in small quantities and I enjoy them.

Drug abuse is a more complicated subject with each person having their reasons with some highly susceptible to addiction. I've known many long term heroin and meth addicts that stop those drugs to become alcoholics. From my experience some people are prone to be addicted to something.

Over the centuries many governments of various types have used drugs and alcohol to suppress groups of there population. Its very effective. The statistics of illegal vs legal drug deaths and addiction is very telling.

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30 notice the huge difference between legal vs illegal deaths !

These stats are just in the US and I have seen variations but always near the same.

Making some drugs illegal is just a means of controlling some portions of a populous IMO in that the drugs are made illegal then at times in history made available by government agents of various countries. Very effective control technique. People are drugged and also available for arrest. http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/node/64

Making Marijuana which gets you high and "Hemp" which is not a drug illegal was a massive plot by multiple industries and government agencies. Hemp is indisputably the most useful plant on Earth and has been for many thousands of years. http://www.onlinepot.org/grow/jackherer.htm

Yea Jack likes to smoke it but he has plenty of real info for ya. Strangest thing about pot is IMO smoking it and getting high on it are the least important part of the plant but it gets all the press. One of the biggest scams of our time.

[Admin_2]

come on , Why ? do you really not know or do you just want to hear what pops up here.

I know...I refrained from replying in the beginning as it was almost like a rhetorical question...though he wanted a reply.

But since it's Vlad, I thought I'd humor him

[digitalcat]

come on , Why ? do you really not know or do you just want to hear what pops up here.

I know...I refrained from replying in the beginning as it was almost like a rhetorical question...though he wanted a reply.

But since it's Vlad, I thought I'd humor him

rawr rawr if you saw kids in the late 90's poping ex like candy, and ask me why... i could give you a detailed explanation.

sounds like you making excuses for yourself under the guise of humoring me

[CiaranM]

Why drink?

Why not?

I'm trying to understand why people enjoy it so much.

Here are reasons why I don't like it (in large amounts):

#1 Hangover.

#2 (Some) people get (very) annoying to be around when intoxicated.

#3 I don't understand the pleasure of it, I am fine without it. Doesn't really help me unwind or relax.

#4 People use it as a lame a*s excuse to do things that they normally wouldn't do.

#5 I rarely like the taste. Even mixed drinks are an attempt to squash the nasty taste of alcohol. If you take whiskey, vodka or any other alcohol alone... it doesn't taste all that good. It's the mixers that make the difference, so in the end you like the taste of mixer, no?

1) i rarely drink enough to have a hangover .... even if ppl find that hard to believe !!

2) some ppl r f**king annoying while sober !!

3) it definitely helps me unwind and relax when stressed out !!

4) i may do lame ass **** when drunk .... but that's still my fault not the booze !!

5) i do like the taste ..... i love it when that ice cold lager hits the spot after a long day at work !!!!

[bigKus]

I drink because i feel thirsty

[Admin_2]

come on , Why ? do you really not know or do you just want to hear what pops up here.

I know...I refrained from replying in the beginning as it was almost like a rhetorical question...though he wanted a reply.

But since it's Vlad, I thought I'd humor him

rawr rawr if you saw kids in the late 90's poping ex like candy, and ask me why... i could give you a detailed explanation.

sounds like you making excuses for yourself under the guise of humoring me

Not really. You have to admit that it's an asinine question. We could all go around starting threads on why do people like to smoke or have unprotected sex, but...oh wait, I'm sure we have threads on those already.

Proceed.

[iBatch]

cos it makes Kunny look purtier than she is...

That needs me a lot of drinking. Possibly tequila...

yeah right tequila..helping ugly guys get laid since the 1700's :twisted:

ooh and seeing Iain... I need another drinks pls.

[Dave40]

I don't drink much!!!!!!

until guzzling came in!!!!!!

[digitalcat]

come on , Why ? do you really not know or do you just want to hear what pops up here.

I know...I refrained from replying in the beginning as it was almost like a rhetorical question...though he wanted a reply.

But since it's Vlad, I thought I'd humor him

rawr rawr if you saw kids in the late 90's poping ex like candy, and ask me why... i could give you a detailed explanation.

sounds like you making excuses for yourself under the guise of humoring me

Not really. You have to admit that it's an asinine question. We could all go around starting threads on why do people like to smoke or have unprotected sex, but...oh wait, I'm sure we have threads on those already.

Proceed.

1.denial

2.anger

3.displacement <<< stage 3

4.depression

5.acceptance

you are well on your way to recovery!

i smoke cause i'm addicted to nicotine, not because of its great flavor. I know it's **** for my health and probably gonna kill me one day. I use it to relieve stress because I associate cigarettes with a feeling of calm.

What I wanted to know what is it that motivates an individual to drink. It just doesn't appeal to me. To understand the thought process behind the act. Admin gave a great answer. EB and some of the others did too. If you think it's asinine don't humor me and let the topic die.

[Admin_2]

come on , Why ? do you really not know or do you just want to hear what pops up here.

I know...I refrained from replying in the beginning as it was almost like a rhetorical question...though he wanted a reply.

But since it's Vlad, I thought I'd humor him

rawr rawr if you saw kids in the late 90's poping ex like candy, and ask me why... i could give you a detailed explanation.

sounds like you making excuses for yourself under the guise of humoring me

Not really. You have to admit that it's an asinine question. We could all go around starting threads on why do people like to smoke or have unprotected sex, but...oh wait, I'm sure we have threads on those already.

Proceed.

1.denial

2.anger

3.displacement <<< stage 3

4.depression

5.acceptance

you are well on your way to recovery!

i smoke cause i'm addicted to nicotine, not because of its great flavor. I know it's sh*t for my health and probably gonna kill me one day. I use it to relieve stress because I associate cigarettes with a feeling of calm.

What I wanted to know what is it that motivates an individual to drink. It just doesn't appeal to me. To understand the thought process behind the act. Admin gave a great answer. EB and some of the others did too. If you think it's asinine don't humor me and let the topic die.

The fact of the matter here is, you're not stupid. I know you're not stupid, so it leads me to believe that this question was posed to tell everyone that you don't drink since you know the answer.

People drink knowing that it's not good for their health, same as cigarette smokers. People drink to help them unwind and relax, same as cigarette smokers. It's associated with de-stressing, or as you put it "a feeling of calm."

I know it's sh*t for my health and probably gonna kill me one day. I use it to relieve stress because I associate cigarettes with a feeling of calm.

I think you know the answer to your own question

But anyway...just so everyone knows. Vlad doesn't drink alcohol!

[digitalcat]

come on , Why ? do you really not know or do you just want to hear what pops up here.

I know...I refrained from replying in the beginning as it was almost like a rhetorical question...though he wanted a reply.

But since it's Vlad, I thought I'd humor him

rawr rawr if you saw kids in the late 90's poping ex like candy, and ask me why... i could give you a detailed explanation.

sounds like you making excuses for yourself under the guise of humoring me

Not really. You have to admit that it's an asinine question. We could all go around starting threads on why do people like to smoke or have unprotected sex, but...oh wait, I'm sure we have threads on those already.

Proceed.

1.denial

2.anger

3.displacement <<< stage 3

4.depression

5.acceptance

you are well on your way to recovery!

i smoke cause i'm addicted to nicotine, not because of its great flavor. I know it's sh*t for my health and probably gonna kill me one day. I use it to relieve stress because I associate cigarettes with a feeling of calm.

What I wanted to know what is it that motivates an individual to drink. It just doesn't appeal to me. To understand the thought process behind the act. Admin gave a great answer. EB and some of the others did too. If you think it's asinine don't humor me and let the topic die.

The fact of the matter here is, you're not stupid. I know you're not stupid, so it leads me to believe that this question was posed to tell everyone that you don't drink since you know the answer.

People drink knowing that it's not good for their health, same as cigarette smokers. People drink to help them unwind and relax, same as cigarette smokers. It's associated with de-stressing, or as you put it "a feeling of calm."

I know it's sh*t for my health and probably gonna kill me one day. I use it to relieve stress because I associate cigarettes with a feeling of calm.

I think you know the answer to your own question

But anyway...just so everyone knows. Vlad doesn't drink alcohol!

I didn't say I don't drink. I said I don't enjoy it.

There are some things that I don't understand people's choices or what leads them to behave in certain ways. Some things appall me, other things are just curious.

Like me and you, we grew up in the same country and both ended up in Thailand but live 2 completely different life styles. Some of things about your life puzzle me.

So rather than jumping to conclusions... I want to understand it rather than label it.

[SweetieBabie]

Vlad, you only tell me you love me when you are drunk. :evil:

[Admin_2]

Vlad, you only tell me you love me when you are drunk. :evil:

The cat's out of the bag!!

[drlovelife8]

Social reasons and I get a really energetic 'high' from good quality booze. A great way to start a night out on the town.

Also, when the sh*t hits the fan, a JD's goes a long way to aiding the thinking process.

Finally, to prolong my erections, but there's always Viagra if I need to go tee-total.

alcohol is a depressant, it neither causes an energy boost or helps one think and far from an aphrodisiac.

O_O

i hope you are being sarcastic.

It depresses the central nervous system leading to a lowering of inhibitions, this in turn gives me a really energetic high feeling.

As it depresses the central nervous system climax can be delayed too. Additionally, as I tend to think rapidly under stress, it aids me in a more methodical approach to problem solving.

You will never have any idea when I am being sarcastic or serious.

I guess the main real reason is alcoholism, but I ain't stopping, that type of attitude is for quitters.

[Flipamerican]

After reading this thread...

I am not drinking anymore.

or any less.

Peace out yo.

[Stramash]

I think this short video from this year's Coachella Festival more than illustrates the follies of overindulgence...

[Stramash]

Starkle starkle little twink

Who the hell you are I think

I'm not under what you call

The alcofluence of incohol

I'm just a little short of sheep

I'm not drunk like tinkle peep

I don't know who is me yet

But the drunker I stand here

The longer I get

Just give me one more drink

To fill me cup

Cuz I got all day sober

To Sunday up