Stranger Danger

[English_Bob]

Thailand is a bit of a Utopia for paedophiles - lax law enforcement, poverty and an air of laissez faire. It seems to many that Cambodia are doing more to address the issue than Thailand. Finally, offenders can be punished in their own country for crimes committed abroad.

I used to work with an American guy whose tastes ran to the very young - I contacted the FBI and told our employers, but he disappeared before anything could be done. The police attitude was - no complaint has been made (by the teenage boy who shared his room most nights) and the staff of his apartment building stopped talking as soon as the police got involved.

While not a perfect guide, here are a few common traits that people should be looking for...

Profile of a Pedophile

Pedophiles Can Be Anyone:Pedophiles can be anyone -- old or young, rich or poor, educated or uneducated, non-professional or professional, and of any race. However, pedophiles often demonstrate similar characteristics, but these are merely indicators and it should not be assumed that individuals with these characteristics are pedophiles. But knowledge of these characteristics coupled with questionable behavior can be used as an alert that someone may be a pedophile.

Characteristics of a Pedophile :

• Often the pedophile is male and over 30 years of age.
  
• Single or with few friends in his age group.
  
• If married, the relationship is more "companion" based with no sexual relations.
  
• He is often vague about time gaps in employment which may indicate a loss in employment for questionable reasons or possible past incarceration.
  

Pedophiles Like Child-like Activities:

• He is often fascinated with children and child activities appearing to prefer those activities to adult oriented activities.
  
• He will often refer to children in pure or angelic terms using descriptives like innocent, heavenly, divine, pure, and other words that describe children but seem inappropriate and exaggerated.
  
• He has hobbies that are child-like such as collecting popular expensive toys, keeping reptiles or exotic pets, or building plane and car models.
  

Pedophiles Often Prefer Children Close to Puberty:

• Pedophiles often have a specific age of child they target. Some prefer younger children, some older.
  
• Often his environment or a special room will be decorated in child-like decor and will appeal to the age and sex of the child he is trying to entice.
  
• Many pedophiles often prefer children close to puberty who are sexually inexperienced, but curious about sex.
  

Pedophiles Work Around Children:

The pedophile will often be employed in a position that involves daily contact with children. If not employed, he will put himself in a position to do volunteer work with children, often in a supervisory capacity such as sports coaching, contact sport instruction, unsupervised tutoring or a position where he has the opportunity to spend unsupervised time with a child.

The Target Child:

The pedophile often seeks out shy, handicapped, and withdrawn children, or those who come from troubled homes or under privileged homes. He then showers them with attention, gifts, taunting them with trips to desirable places like amusement parks, zoo's, concerts, the beach and other such places.

Manipulation of the Innocent:

Pedophiles work to master their manipulative skills and often unleash them on troubled children by first becoming their friend, building the the child's self esteem. They may refer to the child as special or mature, appealing to their need to be heard and understood then entice them with adult type activities that are often sexual in content such as x-rated movies or pictures. They offer them alcohol or drugs to hamper their ability to resist activities or recall events that occurred.

Just a quick search on Google will pull up hundreds of stories like the following...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/oct/16/internationalcrime.thailand

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/08/22/opinion/opinion_30011609.php

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/06/24/us-court-indicts-paedophile-imprisoned-in-thailand/

In all these cases, the paedophiles came to Thailand to abuse young children. And in almost every single case, they took teaching jobs to get close to their victims.

It's well known that paedophiles often choose work that brings them into close contact with children - priests, scout-leaders, teachers. One has to ask the question, what percentage of men working as teachers in Thailand are paedophiles? What would bring someone to a very poorly paid job that commands almost no-respect amongst peers? Aren't there a myriad of other jobs that offer more?

One might also ask, what can the Ministry of Education do to address the issue?

Are there sufficient checks on teachers' backgrounds?

What can be done to curb the numbers of paedophiles entering the country and abusing vulnerable Thai children especially in rural areas?

Where is the line between civil liberties and genuine caution? Is it OK to check someone's computer for incriminating pictures, movies or websites visited?

Surely a basic criminal record search in the teacher's home country would be prudent?

[iBatch]

Not enough so far. Need to follow US, Australia and Canada's example.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Cambodia-British-Owner-Charged-With-Child-Sex-Assault-And-Up-To-100-Children-Rescued/Article/201010415767607?lpos=World_News_Article_Related_Content_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15767607_Cambodia:_British_Owner_Charged_With_Child_Sex_Assault_And_Up_To_100_Children_Rescued

[Stramash]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Cambodia-British-Owner-Charged-With-Child-Sex-Assault-And-Up-To-100-Children-Rescued/Article/201010415767607?lpos=World_News_Article_Related_Content_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15767607_Cambodia:_British_Owner_Charged_With_Child_Sex_Assault_And_Up_To_100_Children_Rescued

You misunderstand my point. CEOP do brilliant work; I am not disputing that. I am even booked on 2 CEOP training programmes in coming months.

But the predator in that story is awaiting trial in a CAMBODIAN jail and will also serve his sentence there. The progress that has been made with the US, Aus and Canada is that on arrest he would be removed to his home country and face a far more severe sentence. Such as the millionaire in the main article I posted; 40 years in prison in the US. If SE Asian countries bring their sentencing levels up to more adequately suit the crime, and remove the whole 'bribing your way out of prison' culture, then the way CEOP operate just now would be brilliant. Until that day comes, we should follow the example set by ICE etc.

[iBatch]

You misunderstand my point.

relax. i just feeding ya more info here... nothing else. lol

[English_Bob]

Thanks for the info, Iain, especially on the Sex Offenders' Register checks.

I'll try to watch the video you posted tomorrow. Looks very interesting.

[Stramash]

Thanks for the info, Iain, especially on the Sex Offenders' Register checks.

I'll try to watch the video you posted tomorrow. Looks very interesting.

Have done a fair bit of training on this, and am due to do a lot more. Part of my new job (the part I don't like) is the monitoring of sex offenders in the community. Will have around half a dozen or so on my caseload; from 'mere' exposure to crimes I will not detail on here. Suffice to say; merely reading the crime reports can be difficult at times.

Despite what the tabloids would have you believe, the monitoring is almost Orwellian. But The Sun and their ilk are never going to print stories of the many sex offenders who do not (or perhaps cannot would be more accurate) re-offend due to the level of justified intrusion in their lives.

But the Governments of SE Asia, although they have made vast improvements in recent years in the investigation and apprehension area, need to start looking at prevention.

Anyone who has plans to stay more than a 4 week period, whether working or not, should undergo checks prior to being given a long stay/work/retirement visa. Initially I would envisage them targeting those working with 'potential target groups', but would also like it to include those on other long stay visas too.

[CobraKai]

Thailand is the only country where I've openly seen someone approach a child in what I'd deem a sexual manner. I was drinking by the side of the road near Nana Plaza after chucking out time, as it was the only place I could find to have a drink (it was just an old woman selling beer out of an ice-filled bucket, basically), when an old Japanese guy approached the beer selling lady and asked (in English) "how much for sex?" whilst pointing at her daughter, who can't have been any older than 9. The old woman shooed him away, but there wasn't the level of anger you'd expect from such an encounter. I got angry about it, but not quickly enough (my drunken brain took a bit longer to process what I'd just seen than I would have liked) to catch the guy. Later the same night, I sat down for a bite to eat at one of the tables lining the road on the walk back to my hotel and a girl no older than 14 approached me asking if I'd like to take her back to my hotel. My incredulous response was to laugh and say "you're too young", but none of the Thai adults working at the food stalls, and in ear shot, seemed to see anything unusual or wrong with a girl of that age offering herself to strangers at their establishment. Half the girls you see standing by the side of the road in Sukhumvit at night don't look old enough - yet I have yet to see police trying to make them move along.

[Hazel]

Thailand is the only country where I've openly seen someone approach a child in what I'd deem a sexual manner. I was drinking by the side of the road near Nana Plaza after chucking out time, as it was the only place I could find to have a drink (it was just an old woman selling beer out of an ice-filled bucket, basically), when an old Japanese guy approached the beer selling lady and asked (in English) "how much for sex?" whilst pointing at her daughter, who can't have been any older than 9. The old woman shooed him away, but there wasn't the level of anger you'd expect from such an encounter. I got angry about it, but not quickly enough (my drunken brain took a bit longer to process what I'd just seen than I would have liked) to catch the guy. Later the same night, I sat down for a bite to eat at one of the tables lining the road on the walk back to my hotel and a girl no older than 14 approached me asking if I'd like to take her back to my hotel. My incredulous response was to laugh and say "you're too young", but none of the Thai adults working at the food stalls, and in ear shot, seemed to see anything unusual or wrong with a girl of that age offering herself to strangers at their establishment. Half the girls you see standing by the side of the road in Sukhumvit at night don't look old enough - yet I have yet to see police trying to make them move along.

The story is really depressing... I think I won't sleep well tonight.

[Barbell]

Some experts believe that pedophiles need to castrate. However, castration is not the solution. Many pedophiles and sexual maniac looking for and have no physical satisfaction, but psychological satisfaction during their crimes. Therefore, a serial killer or a pedophile can be castrato and impotent. So - shootings. And very publicly out.

It is also believe that prisoners hate pedophiles and rapists. Recently, some Russian prisoners killed two pedophiles. However, since not all prisons, as some child molesters and rapists have repaid previous convictions. Now the concept is not enforced as strictly as before.

As is the case with the attitude of prison inmates for pedophiles and rapists in other countries?

[Stramash]

Some experts believe that pedophiles need to castrate. However, castration is not the solution. Many pedophiles and sexual maniac looking for and have no physical satisfaction, but psychological satisfaction during their crimes. Therefore, a serial killer or a pedophile can be castrato and impotent. So - shootings. And very publicly out.

It is also believe that prisoners hate pedophiles and rapists. Recently, some Russian prisoners killed two pedophiles. However, since not all prisons, as some child molesters and rapists have repaid previous convictions. Now the concept is not enforced as strictly as before.

As is the case with the attitude of prison inmates for pedophiles and rapists in other countries?

You should perhaps make it clear that it is chemical castration we are talking about here, not a surgical castration. It can work in some cases but in some, as you rightly point out, it is the psychological satisfaction that is the main aim, although the actual sexual act itself is still very important to these predators too. The danger with these latter types is that an inability to perform the sexual act can increase the violence side of the crime and someone who is a rapist may graduate to murder.

Again however, your solution of shooting them does not recognise a myriad of factors. If there is evidence of generational/learned abuse, should we not have some sympathy as the individual was a victim before they were a perpetrator?

But certainly, for the most serious cases, prison should be lifelong. For lower tariff offences, there should be prison, supervision, restriction and monitoring for the rest of their life.

[Barbell]

What difference - to castrate chemically or surgically? Any castration does not conduct to liquidation of psiho stimulus, but only physical. A difference only in one, I consider - chemical castration assumes including commercial benefits of pharmaceutical corporations. At the same time one cartridge costs much more cheaply, than one ampoule of a preparation of chemical castration. Prove me that it not so.

[Stramash]

What difference - to castrate chemically or surgically? Any castration does not conduct to liquidation of psiho stimulus, but only physical. A difference only in one, I consider - chemical castration assumes including commercial benefits of pharmaceutical corporations. At the same time one cartridge costs much more cheaply, than one ampoule of a preparation of chemical castration. Prove me that it not so.

**sigh**

Firstly, I was just pointing out for other readers that the form of castration carried out is chemical not surgical. Let's not muddy the waters by brining in the pharma industry. And read my post again. I agreed with you that in some cases, the chemical castration can actually cause an escalation from rape or sexual assault to murder due to the frustration of not being able to carry out the physical act. And in others there is the sadistic angle where sexual gratification is not the primary aim so again chemical castration would not work.

But again you avoided my question. Do we ignore the reasons for the sexual assault or rape and just condemn? And what about miscarriages of justice? We still have them here in the UK and, lets be honest, your country has plenty of them.

And for what levels of sex crime would you have the firing squad as the sentence? All of them? Those that also involve murder?

[Barbell]

If it is a miscarriage of justice, it does not matter - shoot or castration. If to castrate an innocent - it's too bad also. Therefore, this is a different theme - a theme of judicial errors. With regard to unfair accusations of rape - yes, it happens. There this is called a "podstava". For example, when the girl have performed sexual act, and then she wrote a statement that she had been raped in order to get money from his former partner. True, this does not apply to pedophile. But may be cases of unjust accusations of pedophilia. But that is another problem - corruption in law enforcement (with respect to any crimes). I'm not saying that suspected pedophiles should be shot (or to castrate) immediately as soon as it was suspected or accused. No, I'm just talking about what should be the punishment for pedophiles. Including purposes of demotivation. In turn, the sentence must be executed only if the case has been fully investigated, examined all the evidence, guilt is proved, with the participation of defense.

And if do not shoot just because there is a possibility of judicial error - then the question arises in the use of castration. It is better to avoid miscarriages of justice and unfair sentences.

[Stramash]

To bring miscarriages of justice/judicial errors into it is not a different theme. It is the most commonly discussed factor in ANY debate on using a death sentence.

So, motivation is never to be considered? And where a young man, who has been abused/raped throughout his childhood and formative years, grows up and becomes an abuser himself, we cannot (while still condemning the crime itself) recognise that he himself was a victim and perhaps deserves some level of understanding?

I find it bizarre that what were the world's 3 great superpowers are those nations with the worst criminal justice systems and the highest use of the death sentence. Luckily most of the rest of us have developed beyond that.

I stand by my assertions; for high tariff crimes and those that involve murder - life long imprisonment. For the lower tariffs - appropriate prison sentences and life long monitoring once released. If they re-offend, then life long sentence in prison.

[Admin_2]

This topic passed through my head a few times this year at school. Once I got settled into a routine, I began doing my usual dissecting of people's personalities (usually based off of my imagination plus a little bit of observation). I admit it's pretty hard to tell who is a pedo and who's not. When students would walk in, I'd watch the other (male) teachers' eyes, and nothing out of the ordinary would jump out at me.

Of course all of the traits that the OP posted can be both normal people and pedos. The only awkward time came when one male teacher, about 25 years old, said something that caught me off guard. Our school only goes up to the 10th grade at the moment. One 16 year old girl walked by and he said, "man, she is hot," or something to that effect. I don't really know how I responded as it was like someone shining a strobe light in your face for a second. Needless to say, the girl was beautiful (a model, well mannered), but as a teacher it's weird to hear a student being called "hot". Is that something I should go and report? I didn't say a thing, but it made me view that teacher in a different light. Had he been a 50 year old teacher, I would have said something (please comment on that point).

The students are students. Some are beautiful and handsome, some are ugly and awkward looking...but they are students. To look at them in any other light is strange. That being said, I don't think I'd want to teach the 12th grade because that's getting to the age where thoughts of crossing the professional line *would* cross my mind. Call me gross and disgusting, but hey...at least I'm honest!

Before I go upstairs and add another poster to my Justin Bieber room upstairs, I'd like to say that I didn't really learn much about the pedo world from teaching for a year. Everyone at the school, at least in my eyes, seemed like a normal enough person, and that no one was there to go child squeezing. Given the numbers, I'm probably missing someone or something that isn't blatantly obvious. I'd like to say, however, that I hate how this topic has tainted the image of teachers (especially) in Thailand. The money is the main issue why the industry lacks quality teachers, but it's also the stigma associated with being a teacher that dissuades people from becoming teachers. That's a whole other topic, but at times during my year as a teacher I felt the need to say that I had more going for me than JUST being a teacher.

[admin]

I disagree with this Bill. The vast majority of Western paedophiles arrested in SE Asia already have convictions for similar crimes in their home country.

Logistically it would be a nightmare, but doable. Certainly in the UK there is a seperate register for sex offenders (not sure of system in US) and there is also the PVG (protection of vulnerable groups) list, which includes all types of abuse against children or vulnerable adults.

How many Westerners work in occupations that will/may bring them into contact with children? They usually have to wait for work visa to be sorted before taking up post, so an extra couple of weeks to check relevant convictions would not be too much trouble.

I'm saying that the number of teachers who have criminal convictions back home would be a small percentage compared to people who have other equally disturbing habits here. We have a sex offender database in the US but you have to be convicted of a sex related crime to get on the list. Mere suspicion or pleading to a lessor count doesn't get you on the list. I would say that in general a very small percentage of pedophiles don't have a previous sex offender conviction.

[admin]

Not that quick unfortunately.

Here anyone going in to a job with any involvement with children or vulnerable adults has to have what is known as an enhanced disclosure (this shows ALL convictions over your lifetime, and not just those that have not expired under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act). This process takes between 3 and 6 weeks to complete. (databases need to be checked separately in Scotland, England & Wales (0ne entity for this exercise) and Northern Ireland.

Local authorities have just brought in a new quicker check for their own employees called the PVG check.(though the enhanced disclosure is still required) Anyone who has a conviction for ANY type of abuse against children or vulnerable adults go on the PVG list. Prior to this there were separate lists for those banned from working with children and those banned from working with vulnerable adults.

It is actually now an offence for someone to even apply for a job if they know they are banned from working with the particular client group.

Further to this, most sex offenders have lengthy, or lifelong, restrictions placed on them. For example; not being allowed to enter a public park, not being allowed to own a computer etc. One of my current caseload is banned from owning a bicycle, as some of his offences took place on a cycle path.

I would guesstimate that should a reciprocal agreement be set up you could be looking at between 6 - 12 weeks for relevant information to come back. Though if the individual had an international arrest warrant against his name, this would flag as soon as his name went into system(s).

And it would need to be done worldwide. Let's say I'm an American and go teach English in Korea and get arrested for a sex crime against a minor. After I do my time, I go back to the US, get a new passport and come to Thailand. No stamps in the passport so Thailand would see no reason to check me out anywhere other than the US though I have a conviction in another country.

So, yeah, it's not a simple just give it to a government minister who punches your name into a database and the screen flashes red. They have to check the criminal records of every country.

[isaanaj]

This topic passed through my head a few times this year at school. Once I got settled into a routine, I began doing my usual dissecting of people's personalities (usually based off of my imagination plus a little bit of observation). I admit it's pretty hard to tell who is a pedo and who's not. When students would walk in, I'd watch the other (male) teachers' eyes, and nothing out of the ordinary would jump out at me.

Of course all of the traits that the OP posted can be both normal people and pedos. The only awkward time came when one male teacher, about 25 years old, said something that caught me off guard. Our school only goes up to the 10th grade at the moment. One 16 year old girl walked by and he said, "man, she is hot," or something to that effect. I don't really know how I responded as it was like someone shining a strobe light in your face for a second. Needless to say, the girl was beautiful (a model, well mannered), but as a teacher it's weird to hear a student being called "hot". Is that something I should go and report? I didn't say a thing, but it made me view that teacher in a different light. Had he been a 50 year old teacher, I would have said something (please comment on that point).

The students are students. Some are beautiful and handsome, some are ugly and awkward looking...but they are students. To look at them in any other light is strange. That being said, I don't think I'd want to teach the 12th grade because that's getting to the age where thoughts of crossing the professional line *would* cross my mind. Call me gross and disgusting, but hey...at least I'm honest!

Before I go upstairs and add another poster to my Justin Bieber room upstairs, I'd like to say that I didn't really learn much about the pedo world from teaching for a year. Everyone at the school, at least in my eyes, seemed like a normal enough person, and that no one was there to go child squeezing. Given the numbers, I'm probably missing someone or something that isn't blatantly obvious. I'd like to say, however, that I hate how this topic has tainted the image of teachers (especially) in Thailand. The money is the main issue why the industry lacks quality teachers, but it's also the stigma associated with being a teacher that dissuades people from becoming teachers. That's a whole other topic, but at times during my year as a teacher I felt the need to say that I had more going for me than JUST being a teacher.

I think there's a difference here, the guy was 25 so looks wise not too far removed - admitting she was 'hot' seems fair enough, being evasive or secretive would have been more of an alarm (he starts to shake and cough...). It does annoy me that people assume teachers here are sexpats or paedos, especially since that puts of the kind of teachers you need to attract to reverse that stereotype. When good teachers are discouraged, the system is desperate for staff.

But am I being prejudiced about age? It's so tough because a lot of this is a social construct, and laws differ even in developed countries. Even the issue of consent is marred by economic factors. I've had Thai girls tell me that they don't really discern a difference between me and a farang 20 or 30 years older, so it's not really a taboo locally. I think Thailand confuses taking advantage of something and abusing something, and the huge grey area lets a lot of people get away with far too much. Someone taking advantage of their environment and dating an ex-student who showed interest in them is taking advantage of a situation, holding a position of authority where a current student feels pressured is different. Enjoying being attractive to younger women in Bangkok or Pattaya is taking advantage of good surroundings, but throwing money at negligent parents or neglected street kids is abuse. I think we get too caught up in profiling and spotting 'freaks' - some people can't help looking a bit creepy. If the police actually enforced at the point of offence (e.g. sting operations), the country wouldn't have the reputation for being a soft spot.

I've confused myself now. Usually more lucid.

[English_Bob]

I think all guys have noticed an attractive teenaged girl. That doesn't make you a paedophile.

Being attracted to young girls - even those not of legal age - is not a crime. Acting upon those urges is a crime - be it collecting porn or abusing children.

You wrote that

It does annoy me that people assume teachers here are sexpats or paedos, especially since that puts of the kind of teachers you need to attract to reverse that stereotype.

Well, that stereotype is often applied to ANY expat living in Thailand by many who live in Westernised countries. The stigma of mail order brides and bargirlfriends looms large in plenty of people's sub-conscience .

However, although profiling is distasteful, it is a useful tool. Given the job of finding terrorists, I would start by looking at Muslim men - not all Muslim men are terrorists, but more than a few terrorists are Muslim men. If I was given the job of finding paedophiles, I would look at single men living in a country with a reputation for being a paedophiles' haven and working in close proximity to young children.

I would be especially dubious about those who had no teaching experience but who had decided they would give up their jobs as chefs for example and decided to work with disadvantaged Asian kids.

Does that make me a biased investigator? Probably. But my success rate would be better than someone who chose to investigate everyone with equal vigour.

[Stramash]

And it would need to be done worldwide. Let's say I'm an American and go teach English in Korea and get arrested for a sex crime against a minor. After I do my time, I go back to the US, get a new passport and come to Thailand. No stamps in the passport so Thailand would see no reason to check me out anywhere other than the US though I have a conviction in another country.

So, yeah, it's not a simple just give it to a government minister who punches your name into a database and the screen flashes red. They have to check the criminal records of every country.

I agree with the worldwide idea totally Bill. Would it not be relatively simple (for the scenario you describe) for there to be protocols (as already exist between many countries) that if you are convicted of a sex crime while in a foreign country, then that country's justice authorities have a legal obligation to supply details to the offender's embassy?

And although it doesn't exist now, perhaps legislation that any such crimes in other countries are recorded on all future passports?

International cooperation has moved forward hugely in the last ten years; the current work being done in the SE Asia region illustrates this. Of course, one of the major factors in the current levels of success in that region is that there are NO written and formal agreements regarding the operation of ICE agents in Thailand and Cambodia. Everything has been done verbally and informally as it was recognised that to put formal arrangements in place would have taken potentially years to get through red tape and bureaucracy.

My proposals would need formal agreements, would need protocols etc and so would take time to put in place, but it is the way forward. Even if only done one country at a time and even if initially it is conviction information from the individual's home country that is given, then it is still making the world a safer place.

[Stramash]

This topic passed through my head a few times this year at school. Once I got settled into a routine, I began doing my usual dissecting of people's personalities (usually based off of my imagination plus a little bit of observation). I admit it's pretty hard to tell who is a pedo and who's not. When students would walk in, I'd watch the other (male) teachers' eyes, and nothing out of the ordinary would jump out at me.

Of course all of the traits that the OP posted can be both normal people and pedos. The only awkward time came when one male teacher, about 25 years old, said something that caught me off guard. Our school only goes up to the 10th grade at the moment. One 16 year old girl walked by and he said, "man, she is hot," or something to that effect. I don't really know how I responded as it was like someone shining a strobe light in your face for a second. Needless to say, the girl was beautiful (a model, well mannered), but as a teacher it's weird to hear a student being called "hot". Is that something I should go and report? I didn't say a thing, but it made me view that teacher in a different light. Had he been a 50 year old teacher, I would have said something (please comment on that point).

The students are students. Some are beautiful and handsome, some are ugly and awkward looking...but they are students. To look at them in any other light is strange. That being said, I don't think I'd want to teach the 12th grade because that's getting to the age where thoughts of crossing the professional line *would* cross my mind. Call me gross and disgusting, but hey...at least I'm honest!

Before I go upstairs and add another poster to my Justin Bieber room upstairs, I'd like to say that I didn't really learn much about the pedo world from teaching for a year. Everyone at the school, at least in my eyes, seemed like a normal enough person, and that no one was there to go child squeezing. Given the numbers, I'm probably missing someone or something that isn't blatantly obvious. I'd like to say, however, that I hate how this topic has tainted the image of teachers (especially) in Thailand. The money is the main issue why the industry lacks quality teachers, but it's also the stigma associated with being a teacher that dissuades people from becoming teachers. That's a whole other topic, but at times during my year as a teacher I felt the need to say that I had more going for me than JUST being a teacher.

When it comes to teachers (and here I mean teachers in any country) any hint of paedophilia is a double whammy. Not only is there the actual crime of involvement with an under-age child, but there is also the whole issue of 'breach of trust'. A teacher is not only there to educate the children in their care, but during school hours they are 'in loco parentis'.

If I take your example of the 25 year old teacher and the 16 year old girl and base it in the UK. If that teacher acted on his attraction and had a sexual relationship with that girl, then although the girl is (under UK law) over the age of consent, the teacher has still committed a breach of trust offence, would lose his job (and likely never work in teaching again) and would face prosecution.

This applies not only to teachers in the UK but to anyone who works closely with children; be it residential child care, sports coach or whatever.

[isaanaj]

When you consider that Thailand is a comfortable country where you can start over, it seems reasonable that a lot of people tired on one type of employment would come here and try teaching. Who hasn't thought of being a teacher at some point? All kids go through that phase (and vet, but that requires more training - could be a good option though, there are a lot of girls on Sukhumvit with sick buffaloes back in Isan). I think it would be a real shame if profiling like that happened, because it robs people of that second chance. If there was a culture of reporting crime and knowing that the report would be followed up by competent police, or that police were actively trapping predators, there would be no need to be biased. Forget stopping every shaved head guy wearing shorts and drinking Chang, just stop the guy who asks a plain-clothes detective to find him a young boy. Maybe your profiling strategy would fit in with PM Mark's higher class of tourist ambition, and make it a lot more pleasant for those of us who live here, but I can't see it doing much good in stopping abuse, just further depressing a large group of losers/second-chancers.

Anyone know what the actual law here is anyway? For example, why was Mr Glitter sent to the UK instead of the Bangkok Hilton?

[English_Bob]

When you consider that Thailand is a comfortable country where you can start over, it seems reasonable that a lot of people tired on one type of employment would come here and try teaching. Who hasn't thought of being a teacher at some point? All kids go through that phase (and vet, but that requires more training - could be a good option though, there are a lot of girls on Sukhumvit with sick buffaloes back in Isan). I think it would be a real shame if profiling like that happened, because it robs people of that second chance. If there was a culture of reporting crime and knowing that the report would be followed up by competent police, or that police were actively trapping predators, there would be no need to be biased. Forget stopping every shaved head guy wearing shorts and drinking Chang, just stop the guy who asks a plain-clothes detective to find him a young boy. Maybe your profiling strategy would fit in with PM Mark's higher class of tourist ambition, and make it a lot more pleasant for those of us who live here, but I can't see it doing much good in stopping abuse, just further depressing a large group of losers/second-chancers.

Anyone know what the actual law here is anyway? For example, why was Mr Glitter sent to the UK instead of the Bangkok Hilton?

Gary Glitter was arrested in Vietnam. He served almost 3 years for obscene acts with minors.

He went back to UK after being refused entry to Hong Kong and Thailand.

He was re-arrested in Vietnam on suspicion of rape of minors.

He paid money to the families of the girls and was released.

He got busted again (!), served 3 years and was deported to UK.

There is no evidence he committed any crime in Thailand. Therefore no need for him to be in the Bangkok Hilton

However, he did claim to have been teaching an 11 year old Vetnamese girl English when she was repeatedly seen in his company. If he had been required to apply for a teaching license which had a criminal record check, they would have discovered that he had been convicted of possession of child pornography in UK and he would have been banned from teaching - perhaps saving dozens of girls from abuse.

No-one is suggesting random stops of people 'who look a bit creepy'. I am suggesting a thorough background check on people who work with kids. Wouldn't you gladly agree to such a check if it kept your school / campus free of criminals and/or paedophiles masquerading as teachers?

BTW "depressing a large group of losers" is not a great defence of your fellow educators.

[Admin_2]

If I take your example of the 25 year old teacher and the 16 year old girl and base it in the UK. If that teacher acted on his attraction and had a sexual relationship with that girl, then although the girl is (under UK law) over the age of consent, the teacher has still committed a breach of trust offence, would lose his job (and likely never work in teaching again) and would face prosecution.

This applies not only to teachers in the UK but to anyone who works closely with children; be it residential child care, sports coach or whatever.

I agree whole-heartedly, but this guy didn't actually act on his attraction (that I know of). I think if it were in the states and I heard him call a student "hot," I'd be more prone to report it. Over here, it's that mai pben rai attitude again, which I have been growing to hate.

If he had seen her out on the street in plain clothes, I'd probably be the one to say "she's hot." But as you said, it's the role of the teacher to be a caretaker, not a *****taker.

[Stramash]

Gary Glitter was arrested in Vietnam. He served almost 3 years for obscene acts with minors.

He went back to UK after being refused entry to Hong Kong and Thailand.

He was re-arrested in Vietnam on suspicion of rape of minors.

He paid money to the families of the girls and was released.

He got busted again (!), served 3 years and was deported to UK.

There is no evidence he committed any crime in Thailand. Therefore no need for him to be in the Bangkok Hilton

However, he did claim to have been teaching an 11 year old Vetnamese girl English when she was repeatedly seen in his company. If he had been required to apply for a teaching license which had a criminal record check, they would have discovered that he had been convicted of possession of child pornography in UK and he would have been banned from teaching - perhaps saving dozens of girls from abuse.

No-one is suggesting random stops of people 'who look a bit creepy'. I am suggesting a thorough background check on people who work with kids. Wouldn't you gladly agree to such a check if it kept your school / campus free of criminals and/or paedophiles masquerading as teachers?

BTW "depressing a large group of losers" is not a great defence of your fellow educators.

He only served one sentence in Vietnam Dave. He also served 4 months in the UK for possessing child pornography; nearly as ludicrous as the $315 compensation paid to the girls' families in Vietnam. (no idea what he paid in backhanders to get the families to ask for clemency for him)

[Stramash]

For example, why was Mr Glitter sent to the UK instead of the Bangkok Hilton?

As Dave points out, no known crimes were committed in Thailand. He was deported back to UK at the end of his sentence.

The point made earlier vis a vis the current system used by the US, Canada and Australia is that he would have been returned to the UK and faced a far longer sentence.