Gov Takes a Break From Floods To Pass Bill Granting Amnesty to Thaksin

[FarangFarang]

Good point Bill. I was hoping the same but you know how we are, "but what can I do?" attitude + mai pen rai seem to get the best of us, Thai. The worse part is many (or even majority) don't really give a damn. They're waiting for the Karma do the job, Bullock, I say. Then some Thai don't like politics, they don't care and ignore politics. The yellow shirt ppl don't do anything because they fear for what the government will do to them.

As you might have noticed I post shit loads about the government on FB. I got some Thai on my "friends" post something in Thai (nasty Thai langlauge) saying how they dislike what I've been posting. This is how we, Thai, are. I used to be sensitive about that, but now i just tell them in the most polite way possible that they can go watching dog mating.

And I'm sure you are at your diplomatic best when you tell them to watch dog mating :-) LOL. I love that one.

For me, watching Thailand, as a country, is sort of like watching a friend or relative who is addicted to drugs. Nothing you say or do will change them. They have to hit the bottom. They have to go so low that they can't go any lower and the only direction is up.

That's why I say that I can't feel sympathy for the Thai people if they let this happen. If they allow Thaksin back they deserve everything they get. I think Koolbreez is right. Thaksin has his eyes on being the permanent ruler of Thailand and once he gets back in Thailand he'll do exactly that unless the military or the yellow shirts kill him.

The baht will go back to 45 to the USD, companies will start moving to Vietnam, Malaysia, and other countries. Property values will take a dive as jobs dry up in Bangkok.

And I'll have a very hard time feeling sorry for the people if that happens. Because they had the chance to stop this but they couldn't be bothered to help themselves.

[pandorea]

Nicky, you have lived in Europe for a long time and you have adapted. You have seen different things. Lots of Thais haven't. And taking into consideration the Thai culture, people believe what their village elders and socially higher positioned people tell them. Being at fault is a no-go, so they have to use lots of energy to find culprits, energy that is wasted because it would be better used to analyse own weaknesses and to eliminate them (yes, this is a typical European approach).

In my personal opinion, the Land of Smile has not gone yet although during my time I had to experience that this smile is rather superficial. Don't give up hope, Nicky! The situation is critical now but still, there is the possibility to get on the right track. Fot Thailand, for its people, yes, and also for its expats. I am an optimist! Of course, it would be easier if Thaksin would be the main actor in a funeral ceremony but I think that after the floods, the masses of his followers will decrease significantly. I mean, Yingluck promised recompensation for everyone but what is 30,000 Baht for someone who lost everything? We were affected by the floods, too but fortunately not completely but still, the amount granted is only a part of the damage. I am working abroad, I am a farang but what do all the people do who lost everything in 3m of flooding and don't have a farang in their family who is able to compensate for the losses??? And as I read, Yingluck was not very welcomed among the inhabitants of Don Mueang area. So, there is hope!

And concerning my first paragraph - for sure I did not want to step on anybody's toes!

My hope is low since the day the Shinnawat brainless puppet won the election. I know they will bring Taksin back, and I can't believe they take bringing back Taksin over the flood crisis. I don't know what's in their heads and hearts.

I don't believe any promises from this government. People who get recompensation will be those red shits people. I bet 10 beers on this. Do you know the government give money (500000bth) to any village that prepare to be "red village"? I heard about this from the evening news while I was in BKK last August. I have no faith in this puppet government.

[koolbreez]

The goal doesn't have to be removal (though I mentioned that). It can be more simple. 100,000 people sitting in front of government house and demanding more from the government would be a very powerful message. Sort of Occupy Wall Street for Thailand.

Thai politicians aren't used to having the people stand up to them. The army isn't going to get involved. They're not hot on this government anyway. Just thousands of people stirring up enough trouble and media exposure to force the government to do its job instead of worrying about getting rich.

Umm, there is a major demonstration in front of the Council of State on Monday from 11:00am until 6:00pm, then as far as people standing up, they started during Thaksin's last term in office, forcing him to hold a snap election, that was thrown out for fraud, then the Yellow shirts took over the airport forcing what's his name out, then there was the redshirt protests that also resulted in an early election, and just recently flood victims have been expressing their displeasure very vocally, resulting in government compromise, and unfortunately in a recent explosion, so to say politicians aren't used to people standing up to them is getting to be an outmoded way of thinking for a few years now.

You can go back quite a ways for examples of people standing up to politicians in Thailand, with some giving their lives in the act, is it '73 that comes to mind, or was it the more recent one in was it '82? That one I'm not sure of, but the '73 one produced politicians that are now leaning a different way.

The trouble with standing up to the government is it can cost you your life. When things get so bad that people have nothing else to loose then that is what they do, as has happened here, and around the world more recently.

Also right now the only branch of the government the majority of the people trust is the military, and their unhearlded unselfish helping during this flood crisis. They are the only ones in the government that have gotten their feet wet to help, and not expecting anything in return. They are the only ones that have shown where their hearts are in relation to the country, and its people. Don't forget they staged a coup sure, but they did not retain power as most coup leaders attempt to do. They only acted in the best interest for the people of Thailand. The way things were headed at the time changing things by election was not going to be a posibility. Edited February 17, 2014 by FarangFarang

[FarangFarang]

Umm, there is a major demonstration in front of the Council of State on Monday from 11:00am until 6:00pm, then as far as people standing up, they started during Thaksin's last term in office, forcing him to hold a snap election, that was thrown out for fraud, then the Yellow shirts took over the airport forcing what's his name out, then there was the redshirt protests that also resulted in an early election, and just recently flood victims have been expressing their displeasure very vocally, resulting in government compromise, and unfortunately in a recent explosion, so to say politicians aren't used to people standing up to them is getting to be an outmoded way of thinking for a few years now.

You can go back quite a ways for examples of people standing up to politicians in Thailand, with some giving their lives in the act, is it '73 that comes to mind, or was it the more recent one in was it '82? That one I'm not sure of, but the '73 one produced politicians that are now leaning a different way.

The trouble with standing up to the government is it can cost you your life. When things get so bad that people have nothing else to loose then that is what they do, as has happened here, and around the world more recently.

Also right now the only branch of the government the majority of the people trust is the military, and their unhearlded unselfish helping during this flood crisis. They are the only ones in the government that have gotten their feet wet to help, and not expecting anything in return. They are the only ones that have shown where their hearts are in relation to the country, and its people. Don't forget they staged a coup sure, but they did not retain power as most coup leaders attempt to do. They only acted in the best interest for the people of Thailand. The way things were headed at the time changing things by election was not going to be a posibility.

Okay, we're back to normal. I don't agree with you now. :-)

First off, the people aren't rising up at the demonstration that you mentioned. That is a PAD rally. This would be the folks that say that the people in Issan are too stupid to vote and should have that right taken away. I don't think that is a step in the right direction.

I think you're confusing staged political rallies with popular demonstrations. I'm calling for a popular, non-colored shirt, good old, we've had it up to hear and we aren't going to take it anymore, type of rally/protest.

The PAD rally as well as the red shirt pro-Thaksin pardon rallies held on Sat are simply two political parties calling out the party faithful to get out and pretend they support whatever the guy on stage is saying.

This is not a real and genuine rising up of the people.

And your examples of previous uprisings is really rather sad. 1982? You do realize that's nearly 30 years ago, don't you? Considering that the "youth" (typically college students) usually drive these sorts of things nobody in college was even born in 1982. In fact, if you were an 18 year old college student in 1982, you're nearly 40 years old today. And 1973? If you were a college student for that one, you're closing in on 60 years old.

I also think the situation is much different today than it was in either 1982 or 1973. Televisions were still a luxury item back in 1982 in Thailand. There was no internet. No Facebook. No TF :-) No Twitter. Today people have an unprecedented ability to organize and that has never existed in Thailand before.

Likewise, even though CNN launched in 1980, it was more US focused until the first Gulf War when it went big. What I'm getting as is that now that there are now several international 24 hour news networks available around the globe stories that would have never been covered or buried on page 53 of the NYT are now beamed into people's homes. I don't think the Thai government could get away with a 1982 or a 1973 under this new level of scrutiny.

Combine that with the power of the internet to turn every citizen with an internet connection into a news reporter and I don't think anybody but the most oppressive governments think they can get away with killing a bunch of citizens.

Some might point to the red shirt protests as a counter-example but there's evidence to suggest (including photos that you took) that the red shirts were anything but unarmed, peaceful, protesters. And in more than a few specific cases more evidence points at the red shirts being behind the trigger than the military.

And I'm not really sure what your point is about the military in terms of how that relates to anything we're talking about.

[Chatty]

The letter from Dubai. He's such a drama queen.... I really wanna throw up....

From Bangkokpost,

Thaksin said he wrote the letter in Dubai and that he did not want any benefit from the upcoming royal decree for royal pardons next month.

He said the nation was suffering from a flooding crisis and needed unity, so he did not want to see any moves that would hinder national unity.

"I am willing to support all measures that lead to national reconciliation.

"I am ready to sacrifice my own happiness even though I have not received justice for over five years. For the people, I will be patient," he said.

In response to recent criticisms of the draft royal decree, Thaksin said he did not believe the government would take any action that would benefit him alone.

He also wrote that as His Majesty the King was ill, and nobody should do anything that would worry the King and he believed that the prime minister shared his stance.

Thaksin was referring to Yingluck Shinawatra who is his younger sister.

In his letter, Thaksin also said those who supported him should not be disappointed. He called on all parties to "forgive and forget".

According to a source at the Pheu Thai Party, Thaksin ordered the party to cancel its plan to seek royal pardons which did not include the ban on drug and corruption convicts, which would make him eligible for a pardon.

You can read the content here

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/267137/government-abandons-draft-pardon

Edited November 21, 2011 by Chatty

[Teddy]

In response to recent criticisms of the draft royal decree, Thaksin said he did not believe the government would take any action that would benefit him alone.

Thaksin was referring to Yingluck Shinawatra who is his younger sister.

Says it all really.

[FarangFarang]

The letter from Dubai. He's such a drama queen.... I really wanna throw up....

From Bangkokpost,

Thaksin said he wrote the letter in Dubai and that he did not want any benefit from the upcoming royal decree for royal pardons next month.

He said the nation was suffering from a flooding crisis and needed unity, so he did not want to see any moves that would hinder national unity.

"I am willing to support all measures that lead to national reconciliation.

"I am ready to sacrifice my own happiness even though I have not received justice for over five years. For the people, I will be patient," he said.

In response to recent criticisms of the draft royal decree, Thaksin said he did not believe the government would take any action that would benefit him alone.

He also wrote that as His Majesty the King was ill, and nobody should do anything that would worry the King and he believed that the prime minister shared his stance.

Thaksin was referring to Yingluck Shinawatra who is his younger sister.

In his letter, Thaksin also said those who supported him should not be disappointed. He called on all parties to "forgive and forget".

According to a source at the Pheu Thai Party, Thaksin ordered the party to cancel its plan to seek royal pardons which did not include the ban on drug and corruption convicts, which would make him eligible for a pardon.

You can read the content here

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/267137/government-abandons-draft-pardon

If he actually meant what he was saying he could easily prove it by:

a) Reprimanding the MP's who voted for this telling them that bypassing the PM is not cool and he does not want them taking matters into their own hands.

Vowing to decline any offer of amnesty until next year after the flood situation has been dealt with by the government and that the floods should be the one and only concern of the government.

All of the drama bullshit is just him trying to deflect blame.

[FarangFarang]

Common sense prevails, finally

Published: 21/11/2011 at 12:25 PM

Online news: Opinion

It was too late coming, but the government's decision to bare all about the controversial and highly secretive royal pardon has eased political tensions and averted unnecessary political confrontation.

It took five days of political high tension, plus a letter from fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra saying that he does not want special treatment from the royal pardon, before Deputy Prime Minister and Justice Minister Pracha Promnok finally felt the heat and decided to come clean publicly about the controversial decree.

Pol Gen Pracha had kept a tip lip since the cabinet last Tuesday endorsed the draft royal decree despite the fact that, as the justice minister, he is in charge of the annual request for royal clemency for prisoners which is traditional feature of the King's Birthday celebrations.

He finally told a press conference on Sunday that there had been widespread misunderstanding about the decree.

He declared that the government’s draft pardon was a copy of the one crafted by the previous Democrat administration and retains all the long-standing conditions that prisoners have to meet in order to be eligible for a royal pardon.

These include prisoners must be between and 60-69 years old; prisoners aged 70 or more should be freed unless they are serving life imprisonment; prisoners convicted of drug trafficking charges or corruption are excluded from a royal pardon.

In other words, the deputy prime minister wanted all the government’s critics and doubters as well as anti-Thaksin groups to believe that the government had not deviated from the traditional norm in the drafting of the clemency decree, and that all the talk about the decree being especially written to help Thaksin to evade a jail term was just a "misunderstanding". The people were "confused", as all governments are so fond of saying.

He also insisted that every previous government had treated the royal clemency as a confidential issue.

Given the widely recognised legal principle of giving the benefit doubt to the defendants, we should give Pol Gen Pracha the benefit of doubt and believe his words, especially those about the content of the decree and that Thaksin’s letter had nothing to do with his decision to tell all about the decree.

After all, none of all the government’s critics or the protesters have ever seen the wording of the decree. Even the media which first exposed the issue did not see it. They based on their reports on leaks from some cabinet ministers who attended the secretive meeting last Tuesday and were told to keep their collective mouths shut.

But if Deputy Prime Minister Pracha is being honest about the content of the decree as he implied, then he must be very politically insensitive, as it would then appear that he had not felt the political heat.

Had he been more transparent and reacted more quickly, the building political uproar could have been allayed much sooner. Moreover, he should have spared the skin of his colleague, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung, who was being blamed and accused of being instrumental in pushing for a royal pardon for Thaksin.

Now, with Thaksin himself declaring his position on a royal pardon issue and the government’s clear back-tracking on the decree, the royal pardon will most likely go through in time for the celebration of His Majesty the King’s 64th birthday anniversary on Dec 5 and some 26,000 prisoners will benefit from it.

Back to Thaksin’s letter in which he, again, enjoined people - in three words of English this time - to "forgive and forget" so that the country can be reconciled and move forward. I agree only with the first "F" - that is to forgive. As for second "F", which is to forget, I think that it is essential we do not forget our major mistakes and national tragedies, so that they serve as a valuable lesson not to repeat them. But we should not take revenge.

As for Thaksin himself. We should ask ourselves whether it makes any sense at all that we have to fight one another and put the country as risk for just a single individual? Can the country not move forward without us bickering about him? Can this country overcome the Thaksin issue?

This is a critical moment. There is still a lot that needs to be done to deal with the great flood and its aftermath. This country needs unity and the cooperation of all parties, regardless of their political affiliations and loyalties.

It is more fitting that the highly divisive Thaksin issue, which has provoked political division every time it rears its ugly head, be set aside for now -- until we are ready to discuss it in a peaceful and nonconfrontational manner.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/267236/common-sense-has-prevailed-finally

Looks like they felt the heat and stepped back on this one.

[FarangFarang]

Looks like the scammers are already out looking to rip off flood victims.

Con men target disaster victims

Reaping benefit from other people's misery shows an ugly side to the disaster

Published: 21/11/2011 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

Flood victim Uthai Phuwanan says she lost all her savings after falling foul of unscrupulous phone scammers claiming to be offering relief aid from the Interior Ministry.

The con men contacted her by phone, saying they were conducting a flood damage survey.

Ms Uthai, 55, whose assets and house in Bang Kae were damaged by the flood, was fooled into transferring money to the scammers via an ATM.

Police said the phone scam gang is exploiting the flood situation and benefiting from the state offer of compensation for flood victims.

Ms Uthai and other flood victims put their trust in the gang's words because their trick came at a time when the government was offering financial help.

"In fact, it is an old trick of the gang," said Bang Bon police officer Thiraphong Naksuk, who is looking into Ms Uthai's case, referring to their strategy of exploiting times of crisis.

"This time the gang fooled its targets with new words made suitable to the situation."

Ms Uthai, a teacher, fell victim to the gang while she and her family were taking refuge at the school where she works in Thon Buri.

As someone needing help from the government, Ms Uthai had no doubt she was talking with an official from the Provincial Administration Department of the Interior Ministry.

But the caller siphoned off her 150,000 baht of savings after asking her to list the damaged assets and instructing her to make an "online registration" for state compensation at an ATM. Pol Lt Col Thiraphong explained how the gang will typically make an estimation of the damaged assets at high values of around 300,000 to 500,000 baht to gain their victims' trust.

It will then ask whether they have registered for the state help. If the answer is no, the gang will tell them to do it at the nearest ATM.

"I would like to warn the public that there is no state agency asking flood victims to register through ATMs," Pol Lt Col Thiraphong said.

ATMs are popular channels through which phone scam gangs can get money. They may pretend to be officials from the Revenue Department wanting to give tax rebates or pose as bank staff members claiming that victims owe money to the bank, but all these approaches will end in a trip to an ATM.

The victims have little chance to free themselves from the con once they are standing in front of an ATM. They will be told over the phone to "press this and that button" very quickly, which will make it difficult to notice they are actually giving money to the gang, Pol Lt Col Thiraphong said.

In the case of Ms Uthai, police investigators are searching for the whereabouts of the gang.

They are tracking it from the bank through which Ms Uthai's money transfer was made in the hope it will lead to a person who owns the account to which the victim's money was transferred.

The officers have to speed up their investigation in order to prevent the gang from causing similar problems to more flood victims.

However, Pol Lt Col Thiraphong admitted it was difficult to pinpoint the gang because its members may make long-distance calls from foreign countries.

He cited earlier cases of phone scam gangs which were stationed in China or Taiwan. The arrest of this type of con artist requires the cooperation of police in those countries, he said.

Pol Lt Col Thiraphong condemned any scam that targets victims of disasters because it adds further hardship to people already burdened with huge expenses and personal distress.

The scam also further mars the image of Thailand despite state and private efforts to genuinely help many people in flooded areas.

On the one hand, many Thai people have donated relief supplies and money to the victims, but on the other hand, some Thai people are seeking to benefit from the crisis in a range of self-minded actions ranging from charging them high boat service fees, to burglarising evacuated homes or tricking victims into transferring money through an ATM.

Pol Lt Col Thiraphong told people who are registering for state compensation to stay alert to the scam.

"They must keep themselves updated on news and information [on the compensation procedure] so that they will not fall victim to the gang," he said.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/crimes/267153/con-men-target-disaster-victims

[Admin_2]

Actually, it looks as if this proposed pardon has nothing to do with Thaksin.

Yingluck said so.

[CiaranM]

Actually, it looks as if this proposed pardon has nothing to do with Thaksin.

Yingluck said so.

well if Yingluck says so ... it must be true !!!