Isreal :(

[zeusbheld]

I welcome those who agree with my position but I have to ask for the personal attacks against someone with a different (if ignorant) point of view to stop. If you do that, you get down to their level. And it will attract the Forum Moderator's negative attention. I personally love it when I am attacked as it just affirms the attacking party's ignorance. The facts will speak for themselves. You can do you-know-what with the rest.

Can we be rational?? Nope; not when dealing with this mindset. Those on the left will do and say anything (or nothing) to further their agenda. Facts be damned. That's why they are known as the "lunatic left."

congratulations, sunshine! if your argument is to be believed, you've just discredited yourself. affirming your own ignorance, are you?

by the way you also imply that everyone on the right is sane and rational; if so please explain the existence of pat robertson, yeah thanks bye.

[frankenburner2]

right..who woke zeus up!

[i_love_som_tam]

right..who woke zeus up!

it's the hibernation thing. dormant for a while, wake up, then go back to sleep again :roll:

[zeusbheld]

right..who woke zeus up!

it's the hibernation thing. dormant for a while, wake up, then go back to sleep again :roll:

no, y'all are just that friggin boring.

[beej]

....... not sure it was a good idea to give Zeus a nudge!

[Angel_Master]

A statement in my post as been called into questioned (some cheap slurs have been lob at me) by PM and I wish to explain my statement further. I would apreciate a genuine effort to establish facts relating to the situation and debate opinion based on those facts.

I don't mean in any way that Jews are particularly bad people. There are no doubt many good people amongst them, as there are good and bad people of other races. I have not in any way implied that all rich people in the US are Jews, or that all the very rich in that country control the country financially. I admit that I don't really have as much detailed knowledge of this topic as I should have and need to research it further if I am going to have a truly informed opinion. I do however believe that there is something to the claims that have been made by numerous others. Why else would the US so strongly support the creation of and actions of Israel when so much of what has been done there go against many of the principals that the US is supposed to stand for? It is the blind support of Israel by the US that makes it necessary at all to even state that there is Jewish financial control that this behind it. Upon doing some research, I see that perhaps I should not have use the word ?Jewish? but rather ?Rothschild?.

I would like to add that the ethnic origin of many who some who have claimed are Jews is no doubt obscure and whatever connections there might be are quite possibly very remote or none existent. It is more a matter of what ideologies one supports than it is a matter of ethnic origin. I am quite willing to admit that the idea that Jews control the US financially might not be accurate and perhaps it is a pointless statement. However, I am then at a loss to understand the support of Israel by the US. So, I only ask, why does the US support Israel?

If the US would only withdraw their support of Israel it is my belief that Israel would then be forced to be more reasonable. They would soon find it their best interest to resort to diplomacy and they would have to finally recognize the validity of the grievances of their neighbors.

I include the following websites as a source of information on this topic. Some of which support my opinions and some of which do not.

http://www.mideastweb.org/zionism.htm

http://www.jewfaq.org/israel.htm

http://www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/expand_subject.asp?id=43

http://www.answers.com/topic/mayer-amschel-rothschild-family

http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html

http://www.cephas-library.com/nwo/secrets_of_the_federal_reserve.html

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rothschild2.html

http://kamron.com/none_dare_call_it_conspiracy.htm

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/slavery.htm

If you doubt the validity of the statements here and are open minded I suggest you do some research, I myself will do more. I admit that there are a couple comments about Satanism that I find rather odd and I don?t believe, as I don?t subscribe to any religious views, but obviously there are many who do. I have no trouble seeing the motivation as nothing more than a desire for power and control.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1715

The link to this article on the website of The Independent is no longer working, nor can the article be found by searching on that website. However I found it on Google here, but there are formatting problems.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article56239.ece

http://www.rothschild.com/pressoffice/annualreports/reports/2000_Annual_Report.PDF

I find this interesting as a self proclamation as to the extent of some of their activities. I have not had time to read and consider it all in depth, and to be sure there is nothing here that would cause one to question their ethics.

http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/index.html

This is an interesting site, with a lot of debatable information, and includes seemingly exhaustive references and a number of different points of view I?ve only skimmed it, but I think it is worth a closer look.

Some might wonder how most of the information in these links has much to do with the situation in Israel. However the point is that the world, not only the US is controlled by a financial elite who do as they wish and answer to no one. Members of this financial elite do there very best to stay out of the public eye as much as possible least they are called to account. A little research will show that the Rothschilds where behind the formation of The Federal Reserve which is a privately owned enterprise. Their funding has created billionaires won and lost wars. I think it is safe to say that Rothschild was the single most important financial backer of the formation of the state of Israel. As is discussed in more detail in one of the links I have here, one must ask, when you loan money to a country what can you get for collateral to ensure that they will pay you back? The answer is a voice in policy that allows you to have a say in how that country spends its money.

Many of us are bothered by the situation, but are also very ignorant of all that is really behind it. The mainstream media, meaning the media that the most people see, does not seem to me to be very informative on the real causes of the conflict. I can not help but see most mainstream media as a propaganda tool serving to support the vested interests of those who control it one way or another.

[Loburt]

What Angel_Master has posted is factually inaccurate and is classic anti-Semitic propaganda. It can be found on websites run by violent hate groups such as the Aryan Nation and those with titles such as jewwatch.com. The same applies to the earlier post by ThePunisher.

Please note that TF Terms and Conditions require members to "Refrain from all expressions of bigotry, racism, homophobia, hatred..."

What follows is a rebuttal from the AntiDefamation League website:

Introduction

For centuries, anti-Semitic propaganda has demonized the Jew as a conspiratorial, manipulative outsider, often with powers and designs of world domination. From the Middle Ages through the Holocaust, fabricated accusations against Jews as poisoners and corrupters have led to horrendous suffering for the Jewish people.

In more recent years, the anti-Semitic notion that "the Jews" dominate and command the U.S. Federal Reserve System and in effect control the world?s money has surfaced across the extremist spectrum. Contemporary economic anxieties and distrust of government have given new life to this timeworn myth.

The world of finance is an area of complexity, if not mystery, to most Americans, and confusions can easily be manipulated and suspicions aroused. The bigot?s rationale is often conveyed in inflated images of intricate, stealthy "conspiracies." For example, under the headline "The jews [sic] have a Plan," the Idaho-based Nazi-like group Aryan Nations has reported finding significance in the fact that the Federal Reserve System and the Anti-Defamation League were founded in the same year ? 1913. Another "specialist" in anti-Semitic conspiracy fantasies, Minister Louis Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam, recently expounded and embellished the same "historical" point.

"Money Power"

In 1962, Omni Publications, a distributor of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, reprinted an early attack on the Federal Reserve called The Truth About the Slump (1931), in which author A.N. Field asserted:

"The Money Power that rules the world today is centered in the hands of individuals of a particular race and creed." Field labeled the founding of America?s Federal Reserve as that point when "the United States was enslaved under this German-Jew engine of control."

In the 1950?s, anti-Semite Wickliffe Vennard published The Federal Reserve Corporation,alleging Jewish domination of the "Fed" while declaring along the way that Hitler, like Jesus, had come into power "to chase the money changers from the Temple." But the most widely cited expositor of conspiracy theories regarding Jews and the Federal Reserve is probably Eustace Mullins ? a longtime anti-Semitic propagandist and a Holocaust denier who still actively peddles this propaganda. Mullins, whose book, The Federal Reserve Conspiracy, is widely promoted in the extremist netherworid, argues:

"The American people have assumed the burden of hundreds of billions of dollars of debt simply because we let a handful of enemy aliens take over our monetary system. The three most important architects of our present monetary system are ...Paul Warburg, the German Jew who wrote the Federal Reserve Act, Emmanuel Goldenweiser, the Russian Jew who supervised the details of Federal Reserve Board operations through its first thirty years, and Harry Dexter White, son of Lithuanian Jews, who set up the International Monetary Fund."

The "Rothschild" Connection

"Most of the owners of the largest banks in America," wrote the late Sheldon Emry, an early leader of the racist and anti-Semitic ?Identity" church movement, "are of Eastern European ancestry and connected with the Rothschild banks."

In the literature of bigots, the name Rothschild is a trigger for the most explosive of anti-Semitic tremors, and it usually sets off a litany of other Jewish names. In his recent book Called to Serve, Col. James "Bo" Gritz, the 1992 Presidential candidate of the extremist Populist Party, charged that "eight Jewish families control the FED" (Federal Reserve System).

In 1983, the charge that Rothschild banks and other international banking concerns, mostly with Jewish names, controlled the Federal Reserve was published (probably from earlier sources) in the newsletter of a local Pennsylvania chapter of the National Association of Retired Federal Employees (NARFE) ? not an extremist group. The article stated that the Federal Reserve System "is not a Federal entity but a private corporation owned in part by the following: Rothschild banks of London and Berlin, Lazard Brothers bank of Paris, Israel Moses Seif banks of Italy, Warburg bank of Hamburg and Amsterdam, Lehman Bros. bank of New York, Chase Manhattan bank of New York, Kuhn, Loeb bank of New York, Goldman Sachs bank of New York."

In fact the Federal Reserve Bank of New York ?the largest and most significant of the Fed?s 12 banks ? lists the banks in the Second Federal Reserve District that are members and stockholders in the New York Federal Reserve Bank. With the exception of the Chase Manhattan Bank, the institutions cited by the NARFE newsletter as allegedly owning and controlling the Federal Reserve system ("Rothschild ...Lazard Brothers ...Israel Moses Seif ...Warburg ...Lehman Brothers ...Kuhn, Loeb ...Goldman, Sachs") were not members of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

About the Federal Reserve System

The Federal Reserve System is the central banking authority of the United States. It is a fiscal agency for the U.S. Government and custodian of the reserve accounts of commercial banks; it makes loans to the commercial banks; and is authorized to issue Federal Reserve notes ? that is, the hand-to-hand currency with which we run our daily economic lives.

Those commercial banks which are members of the "Fed" are required by law to purchase stock in their district Federal Reserve banks in order to supply them with a capital resource. These banks do not have .any "control" over the Federal Reserve. Control is exercised only by a Board of Governors, each member of which is a public servant appointed to his or her position by the President of the United States and confirmed by the U.S. Senate.

The Federal Reserve System: Purposes and Functions; a book published by the Fed?s Board of Governors, states:

Each of the twelve Federal Reserve banks is a corporation organized and operated for public service. The Federal Reserve Banks differ essentially from privately managed banks in that profits are not? the object of their operations, and their stockholders, which are the member banks of the Federal Reserve System, do not have the powers and privileges that customarily belong to stockholders of privately managed corporations.

The Nation of Islam: Echoing White Anti-Semites

"The Federal Reserve is owned by... the Jews. You go back to the Rothschilds, and you go back to a lot ofthe early Jews that are in that financial system."

This spurious allegation was among the many voiced by Khalid Muhammad of the Nation of Islam (NOI), in his infamous harangue at Kean College in New Jersey late in 1993. NOI leader Louis Farrakhan, in a March 19, 1995, speech, was more specific:

"The Rothschilds financed both sides of all the European wars. They always wanted to get their hands on the Central Bank of America. And they finally did. On Dec. 22, 1913, Congress passed into law the Federal Reserve Act.... [T]he international bankers took control of the money by taking control of the Central Bank of America, the Federal Reserve...."

Farrakhan?s words echo the conspiracy tracts advertised in extreme right publications such as The Spotlight of the anti-Semitic Liberty Lobby and those of the anti-Semitic and white -supremacist "Identity church" movement. Indeed, all of these varied hatemongers could have sat comfortably alongside one another in the audience at Howard University on February 23, 1994, when Malik Shabazz (a warm-up speaker for Khalid Muhammed) shouted sharp questions while more than a thousand persons responded in a manner reminiscent of the Nuremberg rallies:

"Who is it that controls the Federal Reserve?"

"Jews!"

"Who?"

"Jews!"

Conclusion

The charge that "Jews control the Federal Reserve" is a classic example of the hatemonger?s paranoid-style exploitation of legitimate concerns ? in this case, the nation?s economy. Moreover, the wide appeal of this anti-Semitic conspiracy theory among all kinds of extremists strikingly demonstrates how the agendas of otherwise opposing hate groups meet on common ground: the scapegoating of Jews.

[Loburt]

The following statement was contained in Angel_Master's post:

" Members of this financial elite do there very best to stay out of the public eye as much as possible least they are called to account. A little research will show that the Rothschilds where behind the formation of The Federal Reserve which is a privately owned enterprise."

The Federal is not a privately owned enterprise. The chairman of the Federal Reserve is nominated by the President of the United States and approved by the Senate after hearings.

No privately owned enterprise in the United States that I know of has its head selected by the President and approved by the Senate.

The members of the Federal Reserve Board are public officials whose names are available on the Fed's website and most of whose meetings are open to the general public.

The Federal Reserve is the central bank of the United States. It was created by an act of Congress in 1913. The Rothschilds did not control the US Congress then or now. There was no one named Rothschild in the US Congress then or now.

Had Congress not created the Federal Reserve, the US would not have a central bank. I am not aware of any developed country that does not have a central bank. The Khmer Rouge, who murdered 1.7 million Cambodians, however, did blow up their country's central bank upon taking power in 1975. I hear they are short on recruits these days, in case your teaching gig doesn't work out.

The following is from the Federal Reserve's own website:

The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System

On December 23, 1913, the Federal Reserve System, which serves as the nation's central bank, was created by an act of Congress. The System consists of a seven member Board of Governors with headquarters in Washington, D.C., and twelve Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the United States.

Appointments to the Board

The seven members of the Board of Governors are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate to serve 14-year terms of office. Members may serve only one full term, but a member who has been appointed to complete an unexpired term may be reappointed to a full term. The President designates, and the Senate confirms, two members of the Board to be Chairman and Vice Chairman, for four-year terms.

Representation

Only one member of the Board may be selected from any one of the twelve Federal Reserve Districts. In making appointments, the President is directed by law to select a "fair representation of the financial, agricultural, industrial, and commercial interests and geographical divisions of the country." These aspects of selection are intended to ensure representation

[zeusbheld]

A statement in my post as been called into questioned (some cheap slurs have been lob at me) by PM and I wish to explain my statement further. I would apreciate a genuine effort to establish facts relating to the situation and debate opinion based on those facts.

you appear to be a nice enough person in real life.

HOWEVER

i dont know which i find more repugnant--you're posting links to racist propaganda, or your passing off said propaganda as "a genuine effort to establish facts relating to the situation."

i feel i'm being extremely charitable in assuming that you're incredibly gullible, but if i'm wrong i can probably help you find an SS uniform, i used to work on movies.

Many of us are bothered by the situation, but are also very ignorant of all that is really behind it.

i do hope you're including yourself in that number.

PS there *is* a "financial elite" that control everything.

yes :shock: :shock: rich people exist. some of them are even jewish. HOWEVER, rather than colluding they COMPETE WiTH EACH OTHER. IT'S CALLED FREE ENTERPRISE, HEARD OF IT?

[Japhrodisiac]

"you appear to be a nice enough person in real life. "

I disagree.

""i dont know which i find more repugnant--you're posting links to... or your passing off said propaganda as "a genuine effort to establish facts relating to the situation."

your pick.

" i feel i'm being extremely charitable in assuming that you're incredibly gullible, but if i'm wrong i can probably help you find an SS uniform, i used to work on movies. "

at minimum, attempting to pass off a mass of bigoted and misinformed information in the guise of "sharing" or "learning" is the most vile and dishonest

type of intellectual crime. - Pathetic

Even if we agreed with the premise that there were a disproportiante number of persons of the Jewish Faith (be careful how you use the word Jew or Jews, it can easily take on a negative connotation given the context of your message, as you - Angel Master - and many others have done) you may want to investigate historically how Jewish Europeans got involved in the trade of stocks and commodities. Principally, it was because Jewish persons were not allowed to own property and businesses in many of the European centers in which they lived. The centers which were most open to Jewish trade were in the Netherlands, which at that time became the largest bourses for commodities and stock trade and speculation, indeed the formation of the way business is currently traded on world wide has its basis in the fact that there were anti semites in control in Europe who disallowed Jewish persons to have traditional businesses, which forced a certain number of intelligent persons to circumvent these racially motivated blockades and invent a new means of doing business. Ironic then that "Jews" are then in turn blamed for having a large representation in this industry that they had a large part in forming due to other anti semitic laws and practices.

Tip: When looking at a subject that has a long historical precedent and discourse, keep reading back in time until you have more information which will bring further questions, which will in turn require you to investigate further arrears in time and so on. Then post

[vbroker]

"I don't mean in any way that Jews are particularly bad people."

Oh no, of course you don't.

"I am...at a loss to understand the support of Israel by the US. So, I only ask, why does the US support Israel? "

You don't deserve an answer. For everyone else, I answered this in prior posts. In a word, democracy.

"If the US would only withdraw their support of Israel it is my belief that Israel would then be forced to be more reasonable."

Wrong. Then they would be free to decimate everything and everyone and there would be no more Arab terrorists because there would be no more Arabs.

"They would soon find it their best interest to resort to diplomacy and they would have to finally recognize the validity of the grievances of their neighbors."

Diplomacy.....like the Oslo Accords? The same Accords Israel fulfulled in it's entirety and surprise surprise the Palestinians entirely reneged on?

"However the point is that the world, not only the US is controlled by a financial elite who do as they wish and answer to no one. Members of this financial elite do there very best to stay out of the public eye as much as possible least they are called to account."

This statement makes you a conspiracy theorist. Conspiracy theorists are worse than "lunatics." Statements like this are beyond irrational; no one with any credibilty is going to listen to this nonsense.

Let me say this as clearly as I can:

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE **** YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

And to make matters worse you are forcing me to be in near total agreement with the Forum Moderator and one self-proclaimed "Wanker," whatever that is. And it's no fun, believe me.

[zeusbheld]

And to make matters worse you are forcing me to be in near total agreement with the Forum Moderator and one self-proclaimed "Wanker," whatever that is. And it's no fun, believe me.

Sucks to be you :shock:

there's always suicide...

[beej]

** crosses his fingers **

[i_love_som_tam]

And to make matters worse you are forcing me to be in near total agreement with the Forum Moderator and one self-proclaimed "Wanker," whatever that is. And it's no fun, believe me.

Sucks to be you :shock:

there's always suicide...

only suicide, I think

be careful. sometimes suicidal people take those less loved with them. :shock:

[zeusbheld]

And to make matters worse you are forcing me to be in near total agreement with the Forum Moderator and one self-proclaimed "Wanker," whatever that is. And it's no fun, believe me.

Sucks to be you :shock:

there's always suicide...

only suicide, I think

be careful. sometimes suicidal people take those less loved with them. :shock:

you can't kill the undead.

cross? got one.

steak through the heart? make it a fillet...

[eagle]

Good Job Loburt !!!!!!!

[Angel_Master]

Apologies for my slow reply. Thanks for making a better effort to respond than my previous critic.

I really have to laugh when I read some of these posts.

"They took the land that is now Israel from the Palestinians with no reasonable justification whatsoever in the first place. That will never have been right."

When the U.N. was first created right after WWII, one of the first charters to pass was creating today's Israel. In other words, the period's Jews didn't "take" anything. The world created Israel. That would include Europe. This is what Ahmadinejad is reacting to with his recent ascerbic comments.

"The world created Israel." Might I ask who exactly was the world, and why did the world create Israel?" A majority of men and women didn't suddenly decide that creating Israel was the right thing to do. The idea originated with an individual with power and influence who created support of the idea, persuaded members of powerful governments that it was in there best interest to support the idea who then sold the idea to their citizens. Granted maybe it was not a hard sell in light of the recent events of history. Dare I mention that some have questioned the popularly accepted reasons for why those events happened?

"But no, they have the gall to go on television and call the attacks and abductions unprovoked."

They were unprovoked. Re-read (oops...I forgot; it wasn't read to begin with) the unamimous G-8 statement:

"The immediate crisis results from efforts by extremist forces to destabilize the region and to frustrate the aspirations of the Palestinian, Israel and Lebanese people for democracy and peace. In Gaza, elements of Hamas launched rocket attacks against Israeli territory and abducted an Israeli soldier. In Lebanon, (Hezbollah), in violation of the Blue Line, attacked Israel from Lebanese territory and killed and captured Israeli soldiers, reversing the positive trends that began with the Syrian withdrawal in 2005, and undermining the democratically elected government of Prime Minister Fuad Saniora. These extremist elements and those that support them cannot be allowed to plunge the Middle East into chaos and provoke a wider conflict. The extremists must immediately halt their attacks. It is also critical that Israel, while exercising the right to defend itself, be mindful of the strategic and humanitarian consequences of its actions. We call upon Israel to exercise utmost restraint, seeking to avoid casualties among innocent civilians and damage to civilian infrastructure and to refrain from acts that would destabilize the Lebanese government."

One must ask why these extremist forces have chosen to attack now, and what their objectives really are. The question warrants a careful and in-depth answer. I'm sure the reasons behind it are not as simple and easily understood as some people think. See the article linked at the end of your post. It really depends on how you look at the situation from a broader perspective. Israel could have complied with their demands, where their demands so unreasonable? Is it not true that Israel has been holding hundreds of Palestinians without trial of years?

"The only reason they can commit these crimes against humanity with such impunity is because they have the support of powerful American Jews, who control the US financially. I think anyone who does not see Israel as the primary trouble maker here to have a severely twisted sense of logic, or vested interests and no conscience."

That's not too anti-Semitic sounding. And the old standby American hatred. Maybe we should "wipe Israel off the map" as the Iranian president suggested.

I fail to see how you interpret my comments as "American hatred". I question the basses of political power in the US, but that cannot be taken to mean that I hate Americans in general. I could similarly question the bases of political power in other countries as well. But other countries are not the issue as they are not staunchly supporting Israel at this time as is the US. I also fail to see how this is anti-Semitic; I am simply stating what I see to be fact. It is necessary to state that there is Jewish power and control there because of the support of a Jewish state. Maybe you need to do a little research and see that Israel really is a country for Jews who practice Judaism.

"The Bush administration can't wait for an excuse to jump on Syria and or Iran in order to increase their power in the region. Iran has resources probably not hard to predict where they will go if they can pull it off before they are out of office. In fact I would venture to guess that the entire thing was engineered by the US in order to provoke a response that would give them the excuse they are looking for."

Yeah, and we flew our own planes into the World Trade Center, Pentagon and a Pennsylvania field. This is the mindset terrorists depend on.

Perhaps you should actually read the article that you posted a link to and you might see how this conflict might be exactly what the US might have wanted. I will admit that perhaps I'm going a bit far with these statements, but in the light of some of the things I firmly believe have been done under the Bush administration I do believe it is possible. I can see how these statements might seem anti-American; they are in fact anti-Bush administration in particular but most probably also anti-American government, anti-CIA. Yes I do firmly believe that the attacks on the world trade center were orchestrated by members of the American government and the CIA, not a point of view I arrived at lightly. I have seen a great deal of evidence presented that for me proves this point conclusively. My logic will not allow me to believe differently. Anyone with an understanding of basic physics and a willingness to anayise the facts with an open mind would have to arrive at a similar conclusion. However that is a topic for another discussion.

"Thousands of people don?t join an organisation like Hesbola without extreme provocation. In fact the support for Hesbola seems to be so strong that it would probably be impossible to have a legitimately elected democratic government there that didn?t permit the existence of Hesbola and allow them to operate."

Really? How then to explain the Waffen SS or the Hitler Youth? Today's Muslim extremists are indoctrinated at a very early age in Muslim "schools" called Madrassas. Look it up.

You might have a point here. I really don't know to what degree those involved with Hezbollah are coerced and brainwashed into joining and how many join out of there own free will because of a sense of in justice. I would like to know more about the no doubt extensive efforts that Israel has made to get along with the complete madmen that are its neighbors. (A little of your own cheap sarcasm back at you.)

"I believe that most of the conflict in the Middle East has been created by American interference. They created Saddam Hussein and they created Osama Bin Laden. Funny they have not caught Osama Bin Laden. Perhaps it has something to do with Bush family Bin Laden family relationship."

Piled on American hatred.

Okay, I should have said "American Government" not just "American" as this is what I meant. Please don't feel offended by criticism of the American government. I don't think for a minute that the American government takes its mandate from the American people. Rather the American people, like the people of many other democracies, are lead to support whatever those in power want them to support. Occasionally they can be a little difficult and a second or third attempt might be necessary to get them to fall in line but most of time they are quite obedient and willing to believe whatever they are told.

As for the picture poster; bear in mind Hezbollah purposely mixes with the civilian population expecting retaliatory strikes to not only kill them but innocents especially babies and children. Further, I noticed there were no pics of Palestinian suicide bombers that killed 1000+ Israeli citizens and soldiers since 2000. Also missing were pics of the 1000+ rockets that have slammed into Haifa and other parts of Israel killing 20+ Israeli non combatants. I suppose those live don't count. Very balanced. No anti-Semitism there.

For those interested in learning something about the recent events may want to read this:

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1186

I agree that the killing of Israelis by Hezbollah and is also wrong and that they are extremists, but just don't call it unprovoked, because that is to blatantly ignore the facts. Reasonable peace plans have been put forth by the Arab world that if adopted would most likely bring an end to Hezbollah because they would no longer have nearly the degree of support that they do now.

They where not raining rockets on Haifa until the Israelis attacked, targeting and destroying the civilian infrastructure of Lebanon.

[Angel_Master]

Good job Loburt at pitching the same propaganda that has been used to justify the Fed from the beginning. I still fail to see how you can simply write off what I have posted as anti-Semitic. There are many members of the financial elite who are not Jews. And as for writing it off as a "Conspiracy Theory", call it what you like, as for my part I see it simply as planning for the future in order to have some degree of control over ones future. Competent individuals and organizations do it all the time. And yes, individuals and organizations do engage in planning which will be harmful to others, and is therefore secretive in nature. Yes, the world is a competitive place. Bigger people and bigger organizations by necessity have bigger plans. It is nice to think that these big people and organizations are ethical in their plans, but in fact there is no real reason to expect that they are.

I found it ironic when George Bush instructed to American public not to listen to ?wild conspiracy theories? regarding the events of Sep 11. What then was he pitching to the American public? It seems to me that was every bit as much a ?wild conspiracy theory?.

[vbroker]

....

[Angel_Master]

just bear in mind it was the "white" nations who decided to impose an "israeli" state on the arab people already living in what is now israel.the people living there were given no real say in the matter.

and ppl talking about terrorists should remember that one of the first israeli prime ministers was a wanted terrorist and that their previous prime minister is a war criminal.

the more that israel gets bogged down in "occuppied palestine" the more their reprisals against the resistance there mirrors how the nazis punished areas that resisted their rule.

no big surprise to see the usual suspects in their defence of another neo nazi regime .... and all those guys cheering on israel's air strikes should remember that the deliberate targeting of civilans and their infra structure is classified as a war crime under international law. but seeing as that doesn't bother the occuppying forces in afghanistan or iraq, why should it bother the israeli's. especially as the israeli goverment and army regard the palestinians (and arabs in general) as untermenschen.

just a postnote ... israel with it's precision strikes as killed 200 people in lebanon, 4 of those were members of Hezbollah the rest were not !! so remind me again .... who are the terrorists ???

CiaranM has something to say! Who would have thunk it! ;-)

[beej]

....

lololol couldent find a bridge huh?

[zeusbheld]

Good job Loburt at pitching the same propaganda that has been used to justify the Fed from the beginning.

do you realize that some of the sites you link to were sites i'd seen before--because they were sent to me by neo-nazis?

you really wouldn't know a "fact" if it held you down and f**ked you would you. you just link to whatever dodgy website supports whatever horseshit you already want to believe.

i was going to go point by point on your flaky, flimsy propaganda but you really aren't worth it. why should i waste my time on you, when i could be playing football manager 6 or even working?

you do a wonderful job supporting my theory that people are easily indoctrinated and don't respond well to, or have much interest in, facts and reason. congratulations tweedle dee, you're exhibit A.

[zeusbheld]

just bear in mind it was the "white" nations who decided to impose an "israeli" state on the arab people already living in what is now israel.the people living there were given no real say in the matter.

and ppl talking about terrorists should remember that one of the first israeli prime ministers was a wanted terrorist and that their previous prime minister is a war criminal.

the more that israel gets bogged down in "occuppied palestine" the more their reprisals against the resistance there mirrors how the nazis punished areas that resisted their rule.

no big surprise to see the usual suspects in their defence of another neo nazi regime .... and all those guys cheering on israel's air strikes should remember that the deliberate targeting of civilans and their infra structure is classified as a war crime under international law. but seeing as that doesn't bother the occuppying forces in afghanistan or iraq, why should it bother the israeli's. especially as the israeli goverment and army regard the palestinians (and arabs in general) as untermenschen.

just a postnote ... israel with it's precision strikes as killed 200 people in lebanon, 4 of those were members of Hezbollah the rest were not !! so remind me again .... who are the terrorists ???

CiaranM has something to say! Who would have thunk it! ;-)

and unlike you he manages to say it a) concisely and without directly linking to neo-nazi propaganda! imagine that, mein fuehrer.

[somjai]

With all this sh*t going on, ..... troops being killed day in and day out, in Afganistan, and Iraq, the potential for a large scale Bush like crisis in Iran, and Kim Jong NutCase in N korea, its been easy for Isreal to go Gung Ho into Gaza and totally f*ck it over big time with very little said, whats going on there now is just totally f*cking sick! When are we going to kick these trigger happy fucks in the face and stop funding them?

In my opnion, Isreal is the root of all evil. Looking into the religious problems with the Christian, Muslim and Jewish; it starts from Isureal. If Isureal was destroyed by the Lebanese, the Middle East would be living in peace.

[vbroker]

"A majority of men and women didn't suddenly decide that creating Israel was the right thing to do. The idea originated with an individual with power and influence who created support of the idea, persuaded members of powerful governments that it was in there best interest to support the idea who then sold the idea to their citizens. Granted maybe it was not a hard sell in light of the recent events of history."

I tawt I taw a putty tat.

"Yes I do firmly believe that the attacks on the world trade center were orchestrated by members of the American government and the CIA, not a point of view I arrived at lightly. I have seen a great deal of evidence presented that for me proves this point conclusively. My logic will not allow me to believe differently. Anyone with an understanding of basic physics and a willingness to anayise the facts with an open mind would have to arrive at a similar conclusion."

I deeeeed!!!! I deeeeeeeed!!!! I deeeeed tee a putty tat!!!!!

"You might have a point here. I really don't know to what degree those involved with Hezbollah are coerced and brainwashed into joining and how many join out of there own free will because of a sense of in justice."

Please don't agree with anything I post. It's bad enough you've got me in total agreement (subject to change without notice) with Loburt.

When I was a kid and barking juvenile nonsense at my father he would say something to me that seems appropriate here. "You stupid bastard; you don't know your ass from a hole in the wall."

To the reasonable thinking people here (and there aren't too many of you): If tomorrow Hezbollah and other Arab antagonists suddenly laid down and threw away their weapons, the violence would halt. On the other hand, if tomorrow the Israelis did the same with their weapons and then had no way to defend themselves, the beginning, middle and end of the second Holocaust would take place. And that's a fact.