frankenburner2 Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 A couple of journals caught my eye this morning...refering to : Immigration confirms the end of border runs from October 1, 2006 Thailand tightens visa rules for tourists to cut illegal workers BANGKOK: -- Thailand will tighten entry regulations for tourists in a bid to crack down on illegal foreign workers, the Immigration Bureau said. The move, which takes effect October 1, would affect tourists from 41 countries including Australia, the UK, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the US, said Suwat Thamrongsrisakul, the head of the bureau. Currently, tourists from 41 countries can enter Thailand without visas and stay in the kingdom for up to 30 days. They can extend their stay by checking out of the country, mainly by crossing the borders of neighboring Cambodia and Laos, and returning with new entry stamps. 'Under the current rules, people from those countries can stay in Thailand as long as they want. Some even stay here for one year,' another bureau official said. The bureau had learned that a growing number of foreigners from the 41 countries worked illegally in Thailand, Suwat said, adding many were employed in bars and restaurants in the popular seaside resort of Pattaya, east of Bangkok. 'Tourists are taking advantage of the visa exemption law. Instead of sightseeing, they are doing business here,' Suwat said. From October, tourists from the designated countries can still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but their entry stamps will be renewable twice at most for a maximum stay of 90 days. Tourists who stayed for 90 days must leave the kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand, Suwat said. --forbes.com 2006-09-10 If anyone has more info...please post here. I'm scheduled to fly to Penang on the 25th and get another triple entry tourist visa...still not sure if that'll fly...i've sent an email requesting confirmetion from Jim. looks like the "aniverscary party" could also double as a farewell party! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankenburner2 Posted September 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 just spoke on the phone with someone at the immigration office.....she didn't think the "must leave for 90 days before you can return" was accurate..she's checking for me...will keep you posted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anenglishman Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Sounds like chaos in the making. I assume I am ok as I have a work permit but methinks the cost of renewal of one year visa and work permits is set to skyrocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMG_UK Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 It always surprised me that Thailand was mssing out on a chance to make money by letting all those visa fees go to Cambodia. I mean $10 a time from the visa runners is money that Thailand could collect and simply renew a visa in Thailand, they knew it was happening. It wouldn't surprise me if this does happen. Thailand wants to turn itself into a family theme park type holiday destination, and so doesn't need bars that stay open late or people staying here too long. It's going to be very interesting to watch this. There are enough long stayers living on 1 and 3 month visas doing good work here. Of course if it gets rid of some of the trash, all well and good, but where would they go next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmo_V2.0 Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 There's gonna be a lot of condos on the market in Pattaya once this takes effect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsnow Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Stickmanbangkok sunday weekly has more thoughts on this, what loopholes there could be, but details are still sketchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farangy Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 This is going to be killer for some guys I know if it goes through. Owing to so much regional tourism this is going to be hard to enforce- difficult to separate the frequent tourists from those folks living here doing visa runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 It's election time... It will be hard for a couple of month but eventually it might get better again... Not really a problem for me but I hope there will be some solutions to some over here. As far as the BKKP article mentioned it was about VOA. Longer tourist visas are available if you can prove enough money to use during traveling. If you're under 50, not married to a thai citizen and don't have a wp then the only legal solution is to start your own company (2 mio capital, 4 thai employees) or get an investment visa (3 mio). You can also marry of course, ... then by depositing 400K in a Thai bank account you can stay. If not married here and over 50 you can retire by depositing 800K in a Thai bank. Wait a few more days for more info on this. One thing's for sure.. I wouldn't want to land in suvanabhumi early october. Amidst the opening of the airport and some of the things that will go wrong... there will be the whole imigration issue. Expect BIG queues getting back in. One recommendation on ThaiVisa was (if you're not working here) to do a timeshare in Cambodia :-D. 3mo here, 3 mo there... swap with a buddy. If you can get in and out before, I'd do that now if you can get another 3mo and don't wait till the end of the month. They might already start to 'test' the new procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condotown Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Good contribution Chris. You say it all. Can I send u a virtual kiss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacanti373 Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 frankenburner2: keep us posted on what you see.....!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Condotown.. If you promise to shave . LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldMember Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 This is going to be killer for some guys I know if it goes through.Owing to so much regional tourism this is going to be hard to enforce- difficult to separate the frequent tourists from those folks living here doing visa runs. Whole thing sounds flawed.I'm just back from 6 weeks in south-east asia and beyond.cleared immigration at bkk 5 times and spent a maximum of 7 days in Thailand with 6 hours being the shortest stay.This i do twice a year every year.Most Visa runners dont fly and those that do (fly) are presumably quite self sufficent in funding their stay without having to resort to illegal employment.So presumably its the land border crossings that will be targetted more so than airports.right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLOS4me Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Seems to me that the newly anounced 3x30 day visa scheme in Thailand would be counter to the shared visa arangement that was announced back in April. Check this link: http://www.sumernet.org/news/april06/060406_2.asp It all seems wacky and *** (Typical In Thailand) to me... Seems like Cambodia and Burma could soon see major increases in "tourism"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaDaz Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Something like this had to happen eventually.. Mostly because in the past doing a ''visa run'' was a pretty low key affair.. Now in Pattaya every swinging **** and his dog is running a ''visa service'' and advertising it everywhere.. This is mainly aimed at westerners who don't have the cash or desire to return to their country to obtain the correct longstay visa.. The places where you could previously get a 'non immigrant visa' even if you weren't a citizen of that country have all gradually stopped making them available unless you had a genuine reason.. Guess all the guys with dodgy footbal shirt businesses and real estate agencies will have to have a rethink.. But of course this is Thailand where laws and actual enforcement are different things..Guess this could be yet another nail in the property coffin. Won't affect me cos of my work..But guess I could always get married...Any offers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 This is going to be killer for some guys I know if it goes through.Owing to so much regional tourism this is going to be hard to enforce- difficult to separate the frequent tourists from those folks living here doing visa runs. Whole thing sounds flawed.I'm just back from 6 weeks in south-east asia and beyond.cleared immigration at bkk 5 times and spent a maximum of 7 days in Thailand with 6 hours being the shortest stay.This i do twice a year every year.Most Visa runners dont fly and those that do (fly) are presumably quite self sufficent in funding their stay without having to resort to illegal employment.So presumably its the land border crossings that will be targetted more so than airports.right? everybody's just guessing at this point (including on thaivisa). forbes article appears to be the best so far. presumably that's spot on. it would be staggering stupidity for the thai gov't's right hand to shoot their left foot off by building a new huge airport, intending it to be a major hub, and then making up a system that will take half an hour to get through immigration if you're the only person queued up. what may be worrisome is whether or not there will be a ripple effect--will this make it harder to get more than one long-stay tourist visa? will they then make it harder to retire here, make it harder to buy property here, etc. as a farrang? that would suck for many but be good news for ppl with real visas--the price of nice apartments and beach houses would plummet. it may have some positive effects, such as running off some of the more obnoxious sex toursts (pity cambodia and the PI) but it could have a negative 'ripple' effect on tourism in general if they don't compensate with more lenient visa allowances for diving instructors (wannabe divers will be less likely to come here and get certified) and english teachers (thaiglish isn't that intelligible by tourists anyway, imagine if, in about five years, there are a lot fewer native speaker teachers). english is, even for non-english speakers, the language of tourism. bottom line is that the bottom line will suffer if they target the airports heavily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylver Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 ... presumably that's spot on. it would be staggering stupidity for the thai gov't's right hand to shoot their left foot off by building a new huge airport, intending it to be a major hub, and then making up a system that will take half an hour to get through immigration if you're the only person queued up. No, that wouldn't really take much longer for regular tourists. These days you simply zip the passport in the machine. If you are on the blacklist, you would be told to go to the boys in brown office. However, it is stagering stupidity on several counts: Take the guy who works on something legit. Well he is contributing to the country, isn't he? And doesn't he spend is every satang here? So what's bad with that? Not to mention the guys who work on the net, make all of their income overseas ans spend it here? People involved with criminal activities are criminals and represent a small minority of the farang expats. One article mentioned "mafia". Who's ever heard of a farang mafia in Thailand? We are talking about a small number here, so why not simply deal with them the same way they deal with regular criminals. What's wrong is being a criminal. There is nothing wrong about being here and working (work is your contribution to society). Further, expats have an influence on tourism. Expats have family/friends visiting. They make websites advertising how nice it is to be in Thailand, they write back home about it, ...they do a fair bit of work to promote Thailand overseas (not always willingly, but folks back home may hear that "joe" lives in Thailand. They get curious). Get rid of a significant volume of expats and you can kiss goodbye to a lot of "genuine" tourists. Add to that the fact that they are counted extensively as tourists (an expat counts as 12 tourists) and you can expect a serious drop in tourism. What are the benefits? Do they really expect this will reduce crime? How many crimes have been commited by long term expats on tourist visas? ... but be good news for ppl with real visas--the price of nice apartments and beach houses would plummet. Probably not. People who currently own/lease those nice properties (that's 4 millions up, or 40,000+ per month) have significant financial means and can handle the more expensive visa alternatives. The people hit are regular Joes making a living with some mid-range jobs and unable to put 800,000 in some bank just for the sake of a visa. (A well paid teacher would need to save for about 5 years to get this kind of money, for instance) So no, I wouldn't expect a drop in price range in the high-end property markets. Besides, farang don't own all that much down here. it may have some positive effects, such as running off some of the more obnoxious sex toursts (pity cambodia and the PI) but it could have a negative 'ripple' effect on tourism in general if they don't compensate with more lenient visa allowances for diving instructors (wannabe divers will be less likely to come here and get certified) and english teachers (thaiglish isn't that intelligible by tourists anyway, imagine if, in about five years, there are a lot fewer native speaker teachers). english is, even for non-english speakers, the language of tourism. bottom line is that the bottom line will suffer if they target the airports heavily. Maybe they will manage to get rid of some sexpats. But then, considering most of the prostitution in Thailand is geared toward Thai males, that won't really change the picture much. Thailand could easily get rid of the farang oriented prostitution, if it really wanted to. And they haven't done so. So targeting long stay "tourists" certainly isn't going to do much against that. About the consequence on the quality of English teaching, nah. That wouldn't be such a bad change. Why? There has been a huge volume of Native English speakers teaching in Thailand for the last 30 years. And the English level stinks. I would venture that there are less native English speaking teachers in Malaysia/Singapore... where English is well spoken by a majority of the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankenburner2 Posted September 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 "Who's ever heard of a farang mafia in Thailand?" actually....I've heard through he grapevine that the russians have slowly been taking over Pattaya.....and I know for a FACT that the French are active both in bangkok and pattaya!.....so....I guess I have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 There are some good things and bad things about the new law. In a way they can't be blamed for taking charge of getting rid of the abuse. If you're a tourist, you're a tourist and you shouldn't be working. If you're working, go get the proper visa... That said.... the things what is missing is a clear visa policy geared at the actual situation in Thailand. The 50/60K/month salary for teachers is a problem for most schools to pay... The same thing for visa instructors and so on. The thing is, when you're in a country 3x30 (90 days) then you are obliged to pay taxes. So hereby they are enforcing the law in a way that if you're here working.. pay taxes. I understand. I do pay my taxes too and I got the work permit coz doing a border run took too much time off. It was not easy though and I consider myself in a lucky position. What I think Thailand really needs is some clear policy and maybe some scales of minimum salaries for certain jobs so attaining the proper visa is easier. From what I had read (I stopped after page 24 on t.v.) it will still be up to the immigration office where you go. So exceptions can be made for people in really difficult situations where possible marriage breakups are a result but the main crackdown is on the land border runs. From what I've heard.. you may get a red stamp on your visa the next time you enter back to back (same day in/out) which says... you may not be eligible to enter the country next time. This is some sort of warning that you have to stay out for 3 months. Best advice... start talking to your embassies and ask the for more information. Better to be well informed instead of having major disappointments later. About the real estate business. I agree with Zeus. Some people are really putting all they've got into a house over here (with or without their own shady real estate 'company' as a front) and don't have an extra 800K to put in the bank if they under 50. Other option.. marriage.. + 400K... A lot of people that have been burned will opt out. Overall this crackdown on back to back runners is 'meant' to crack down on 'undesirables' .. yet as with everythin the methods are questionnable. Starting off with less corruption in the police would go a long way. If the real heavy guys want to get in, the 'will' get in. Guy X or Y who killed his wife could easily be nabbed at the border as well if they did their job. I understand that they want people to apply for the proper visa and get some taxes and I think most will agree that foreigners over here will be happy to pay taxes as soon as they can stay here legally and don't have the whole border run hassle to think about anymore. The question then remains... what about the salary requirements... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfg_johnny Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 On another Journal someone said that we "need MORE tourism and not less as they gradually make it more difficult for foreigners to live and work in Thailand." sorry but my understanding of English and of Tourism is that you are on tour... as in holidays, vacationing, spending time to relax in some tropical resort...for that fact and for those that are truly on holidays here, the Thai Gov?t, will allow you to stay for 90 days... without having to do a visa run or leave the country or even to apply for a visa before you arrive. I think that is doing something for tourism...and that will keep the money inthe country instead of the border crossings. Sorry for them...and those little ecomomies that run on that route. <<<<<make it more difficult for foreigners to LIVE and WORK>>>>> As for foreigners to LIVE and WORK here... its not really that difficult if you go through the process of filling the proper paperwork, have real company to work for and/or have a business that is paying your fair share of taxes. This includes you Internet Business Guys, yea you are supposed to pay taxes too...Hey, under BOI, I don?t even have to pay any income taxes for the next 10 years...How good is that!!!!...and I can buy a house or a factory too...not just some condo with a land hold title...You dont even have to get married! Think about it, we had some crazy criminal English teacher/ terrorist / murderer / etc...work and stay here for x,xx,10 years, un-noticed, hidden from the US/ UK/ AUS authorities... His little Mexico if you will...and all he had to do was a visa run every month to another third world country... Now how much better would you feel if the guy sitting next to you in the bar was not some wanted kiddy porn child molester guy from UK / US / Germany on the run...but hiding in Thailand...free, sipping Mai Thais instead of behind bars. I am all for the new rules, as long as it gets rid of the rift raft, and for doing things as far as I can bend the laws of reality...ask anyone who knows me! If u want to retire... they allow it, prove u have enough money to retire on... If you want to work and have a business...through a Division in Thai Trade, they pay you to help promote exports / food products/ or spa services from Thailand. Through the Industry Promotions division...there is also free money there too, but you are to help the country grow... If you want to teach English, French, Spanish or any other topic, register and you can get a work permit. Assuming you are a real qualified teacher at a real qualified school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Never mind the typos.. it's getting late. In my last post it should read: 800K to put in the bank if they are OVER 50. On the English language skills :-S... Too bad.. If this law takes action... English skills in this country will deteriorate even further making it less attractive for business. On the other hand it would be a good thing to only have native English speakers teach and with the proper qualifications. But with people saying conSPY-racY' on tv and other disasters it is clear that what thailand really needs is a good education policy in order to be really attractive for business. Finding staff in Thailand with good English skills is still somewhat of a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 "Who's ever heard of a farang mafia in Thailand?" I've heard the Canadian maffia owns much of sukhumvit. There's a guy over here always swaying a big gun trying to get free mustard at every restaurant he goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venus Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 I don't know much about VISA here. But I think for normal tourists who are willing to pay a lot of money while staying in the country and not illegally making some money here, 90 days is way more than enough to spend in Thailand. Most ppl who stay longer can apply for retirement VISA as codefire stated above. Also those tourists who has money to pay to stay longer than 3 months in Thailand can sure have a way to apply for another kind of VISA that'll enable them to stay as long as they want. I remember seeing a story about this one Japanese designer who is really famous in France on TV. He stays 8 month a year in Thailand and spends most of his time at the Banyan Tree Phuket. I'm sure Thai government has a special VISA for ppl like him to stay in Thailand as long as they want. But for those who are here and illegally work as English teachers, I think there are some valid reasons to try and get them to stop abusing the tourist VISA. First of all they don't spend any money in the country, while earning money and don't pay tax. If they are a qualified English teachers, I'm sure they can find a job in a decent school or language school, that is willing to get them a work permit. But becoz they aren't that good and willing to do anything just to stay in Thailand, it means low quality educators for Thai students as well. So I think that is not worth it. I know a couple of farangs who work for my company, who have only tourist visas and they make about 60-70k a month, has comfortable life and don't have to pay tax. I mean it doens't mean much to me whether who pays tax and who doesn't but then isn't it a form of taking advantage from this country and from the people who have to go through all the process to stay here legally? There might be some disadvantage I do not think about here but I'm sure there are some positive sides about this change. I hope it is for the benefit of the country not for corruption though. breakofdawning says it all. i think anyone who has not got a chance to read ... do read it now. as a thai person, i love & support her perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 ... presumably that's spot on. it would be staggering stupidity for the thai gov't's right hand to shoot their left foot off by building a new huge airport, intending it to be a major hub, and then making up a system that will take half an hour to get through immigration if you're the only person queued up. No, that wouldn't really take much longer for regular tourists. These days you simply zip the passport in the machine. If you are on the blacklist, you would be told to go to the boys in brown office. and of course the whole database will work the first time out of the box, in spite of the complexity of the task. smoothly and quickly. never worked in IT or commissioned an IT project, i guess? if all it had to do was FIND people on the blacklist that would be easy; but it is CREATING the blacklist by performing arithmetic on the number of entries, their duration, etc. that means in order to work properly the database would have to coordinate EVERY entry point in thailand. do you really think your 'magic database' will work faster than having the officer flip through your passport and make a judgment call? either way, lines will be longer. What are the benefits? Do they really expect this will reduce crime? How many crimes have been commited by long term expats on tourist visas? if you actually read the limited information out there, such as the forbes article (the bkk post article is utterly incoherent) they appear to be directing this at people working illegally on tourist visas. this includes a lot of chinese and indian business people of varying legitimacy, and farrangs, mostly teaching english and scuba diving. i'm not sure any of the countries involved know how to tax IT workers who live anywhere they want and get paid through paypal from someone in another country. ... but be good news for ppl with real visas--the price of nice apartments and beach houses would plummet. Probably not. People who currently own/lease those nice properties (that's 4 millions up, or 40,000+ per month) have significant financial means and can handle the more expensive visa alternatives. depends on your definition of nice then doesn't it. apartments in the 10,000 - 25,000 range will become vacant in significant numbers and cheaper condos will suddenly be deprived of their sex tourists. The people hit are regular Joes making a living with some mid-range jobs and unable to put 800,000 in some bank just for the sake of a visa. (A well paid teacher would need to save for about 5 years to get this kind of money, for instance) if they are regular joes working in midrange jobs, these midrange jobs should provide a visa. sadly most dont, especially teaching jobs. So no, I wouldn't expect a drop in price range in the high-end property markets. Besides, farang don't own all that much down here. you quoted me but i dont see where, in my original post, i mentioned 'high-end property', you are taking liberties with the word 'nice' in my opinion. About the consequence on the quality of English teaching, nah. That wouldn't be such a bad change. Why? There has been a huge volume of Native English speakers teaching in Thailand for the last 30 years. And the English level stinks. I would venture that there are less native English speaking teachers in Malaysia/Singapore... where English is well spoken by a majority of the population. ever been to china? ever talk to someone who learned english from other chinese, who learned english from other chinese, and no one in the chain ever learned from a native speaker? try it some time and get back to me on this one, k? ps the careful observer will note that english is an official language of singapore, so that is an exceptionally shitty example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 Now how much better would you feel if the guy sitting next to you in the bar was not some wanted kiddy porn child molester guy from UK / US / Germany on the run...but hiding in Thailand...free, sipping Mai Thais instead of behind bars.I am all for the new rules, as long as it gets rid of the rift raft it won't get rid of rif raff. con men, etc will tend to overstay, if they know they have a criminal record. to my knowlege karr wasn't aware johnny law was after him. he is already off the suspect list for jonbenet ramsey. it may get rid of the ultralow grade riff raff--the sex tourists who just never leave, and don't really have any money--they'll tend to find easier places to go, like cambodia, where it is apparently easy to buy a one year visa for about $250. none of this is about ACTUALLY getting rid of any riff raff though, just spin and perception--hope the fact that elections are around the corner isn't lost on anyone. If you want to teach English, French, Spanish or any other topic, register and you can get a work permit. Assuming you are a real qualified teacher at a real qualified school. on the surface that *seems* like it *should* be true but i talked to many qualified teachers at allegedly bona fide schools who are still waiting for their work permit, which is allegedly being processed... i suspect the vast majority of work permits for english teachers are theoretical entities (i dont know, though, i've never taught english in thailand--my grammar and spellieng is too gud). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 "Who's ever heard of a farang mafia in Thailand?"actually....I've heard through he grapevine that the russians have slowly been taking over Pattaya.....and I know for a FACT that the French are active both in bangkok and pattaya!.....so....I guess I have! "mafia? there is no mafia." --- tony soprano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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