Addictions & ThailandFriends

[vbroker]

I figured enough time had passed from June's and July's sad events to raise this subject. Plus, for me, the fog of jet lag has finally begun to lift and I am starting to think clearly again.

I have been coming to Thailand on and off for some time now. I have seen several changes I won't go into here; it's the same old same old I'm interested in.

We're all familiar with Thai society's permissive attitude towards individualism. As long as you don't cause someone (another Thai usually) to "lose face," you can pretty much do whatever you want without any real scorn. This has allowed and encouraged, I believe, countless farang to come to this country and live the "carefree" life. A life of abandon. In too many cases, reckless irresponsibility, which, in the west would be frowned upon goes uncommented on here or depending on circumstances (like being around the like-minded) is met with approval and praise.

I am talking about heavy alcohol, drug and tobacco use/abuse. The kind of abuse that if it goes on long enough will kill you for sure well before your time.

Enter thailandfriends.com. Before TF, your average farang either visited or lived in BKK and/or other major tourist areas. He traveled alone or with his Thai girlfriend(s). He may have had another farang acquaintance or three he met for drinks every now and then. But that's it. No one to say anything about his excessive alcohol/tobacco consumption and no one knew about his drug habits. Partially as a result of TF, now one farang can have many Thai and farang friends; some relationships that have become quite close.

This is NOT about naming or calling people out. Please don't do that. It is however, a question as to what your responsibility is to your friend you know is headed for a train wreck. Do you say anything? Do you do anything? Do you keep your mouth shut and "live and let live" (or die as it were) as Thai society is so apt at doing? Or are you encouraging said behavior by your acts and words? Do you care? If you don't care, just how close can you say you are to your friend?

[eagle]

My Best friends are those who will tell me when I'm F*ckin up. I think we owe it tio a friend to tell them if we are worried about them !!!!!!!!!

I am in the US but I would feel this anywhere

[frankenburner2]

this is about me, isn't it? *hic*

[Loburt]

Does this mean you won't be signing up for Superdrunk?

[Mazzy]

Sometime, you can talk and talk and talk...yourself to death. If your friend is not willing/motivated to stop his addiction, you can talk all you want it's useless.

[The Punisher]

You can't call yourself a friend to someone if you don't speak out when you think something is wrong.

[zeusbheld]

when i am sure of what i see i say something, but then it's hard to imagine me ever keeping my mouth shut about anything isn't it.

depends on how close though. if it's a close friend i'll hold the other end of the tether and damn near go down with the ship, but i don't get close to addicts on purpose. ultimately it's their choice, or it was before they became dependent on it.

i'll tend to suggest things they can do, things that they may try in order to beat it, but really it's up to them.

at some point if they aren't going clean i distance myself somewhat and prepare for the inevitable. if they are stubborn and not 'inner circle' friends i just dirift away and lose touch. beyond alcohol and tobbacco, i've known a few heroin addicts but most were well after they quit using.

one even made a movie about it ("acts of worship", which did well at sundance but was too much of a downer to get distributed). i met rosemary well after she'd cleaned up. i knew she'd been a junkie but had no idea how bad it had gotten until i saw the film--it's a fiction film, but based on her life.

generally though if they really are my close friends, i stick by them in whatever capacity i can without endangering myself, whatever their problem is. this said after manning the 'suicide hotline' all weekend... my friend didnt kill herself, she was in florida but is back in beijing now (and pumped full of prozac at the moment, while other people are finding out about more up-to-date treatments), and now she's intent on making a documentary about mental healthcare in china (or the lack thereof). not drug-related but certainly qualifies as self-destructive, and related in the sense that f**ked up brain chemistry is involved (physical changes in the brain).

[bored]

i do care but i tend to hold my mouth shut as i think we're all adults and i dont like to be telling ppl what to do. sometimes it's sad seeing them ruining themselves, but we all live the life we choose, so i cant help but only respect their decision in life.

agree. i realised that the more you try to help some people (even close friends) the more they hate you. just some ppl understand about the dangers and the social impact of drugs (alcohol, tobacco... etc ). in my opinion who wants to quit will quit regardless of the antourage attitude.

meanwhile... what's life without sex drugs and rock n' roll? hmmmmm... just a boring drive to work, work, come back watch tv and sleep experience. in this life style it's very easy to get the most dangerous drug: THE FOOD.

tf? come on lads, tf is tf. before it people lived same life. if you had friends you had. if you were a sorry ass you were a sorry ass.

...it's true though that tf put many sorry asses together. that's why i sometimes curse you, unique freaky freak... :twisted:

[i_love_som_tam]

this is about me, isn't it? *hic*

it's always about you :roll:

[condotown]

You are a compassionate person, Vic.

Most TF'ers are intelligent adults and they deal with their problems in a way that suits them. This thread will be answered as mine was... with sarcasm and jokes and a few comments that tell you that this message is useless because they know what they are doing and it is their choice.

However, if you save or awaken one person or make a difference in even one person's quality of life, kudos to you!!!

http://www.thailandfriends.com/index.php?name=DB_phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=9735

[smartass]

meanwhile... what's life without sex drugs and rock n' roll?

i visited jim morrison's two weekends ago...1943-1971..hmm yeah he died young.

though he did live and frigging let live.

anyway, still agree with the comments above, we can only try so much...if they don't come to senses, what can you do?

[Dave40]

You are a compassionate person, Vic.

Most TF'ers are intelligent adults and they deal with their problems in a way that suits them. This thread will be answered as mine was... with sarcasm and jokes and a few comments that tell you that this message is useless because they know what they are doing and it is their choice.

However, if you save or awaken one person or make a difference in even one person's quality of life, kudos to you!!!

http://www.thailandfriends.com/index.php?name=DB_phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=9735

I asked about low alcohol beer in Thailand in a journal and people laughed at me!!!!! Sorry for trying to drink in moderation!!!! Now that I am getting older!!!!!! PS Don't tell anyone Shooosh!!!!!

http://www.thailandfriends.com/index.php?name=Journal&view=journal&jid=21443&juid=25594

[Khun_Sam]

When someone is addicted to sex, what arguments would you use to discourage them? I can't find any.

[condotown]

There's definitely some good points in the OP, but I don't believe that TF is condoning or encouraging alcohol abuse by it's existence, as I believe that most of the people who do indulge, would do so regardless.

It strikes me more as a focal point for all the misfits rather than a catalyst.

I include myself in that statement.

There is strength in numbers.

Misery loves company.

There is no such thing as a "social drink"

[zeusbheld]

anyway, still agree with the comments above, we can only try so much...if they don't come to senses, what can you do?

as jim said, we can get the **** off the sinking ship.

also as vladdie said this has sweet **** all to do with TF 'encouraging' it. such problems existed well before the internet.

[zeusbheld]

Everyone here's got baggage. Ain't met one yet who hasn't.

indeed, ain't met one anywhere. newborn baby? come on. being born looks pretty traumatic don't it?

[Guest Tattoodude]

I figured enough time had passed from June's and July's sad events to raise this subject.

Really?

Been a burning issue with you for some time then?

I have been coming to Thailand on and off for some time now. I have seen several changes I won't go into here; it's the same old same old I'm interested in.

We're all familiar with Thai society's permissive attitude towards individualism. As long as you don't cause someone (another Thai usually) to "lose face," you can pretty much do whatever you want without any real scorn. This has allowed and encouraged, I believe, countless farang to come to this country and live the "carefree" life. A life of abandon. In too many cases, reckless irresponsibility, which, in the west would be frowned upon goes uncommented on here or depending on circumstances (like being around the like-minded) is met with approval and praise.

frowned upon in the west? Which village do you live in?

I am talking about heavy alcohol, drug and tobacco use/abuse. The kind of abuse that if it goes on long enough will kill you for sure well before your time.

Ohhh I see! Of course none of that in the west.

Enter thailandfriends.com.

Da Da Daaaaaaaaaa! (baddy music!)

Before TF, your average farang either visited or lived in BKK and/or other major tourist areas. He traveled alone or with his Thai girlfriend(s). He may have had another farang acquaintance or three he met for drinks every now and then. But that's it.

Nope not my experience so I consider that to be all bollocks.

No one to say anything about his excessive alcohol/tobacco consumption and no one knew about his drug habits. Partially as a result of TF, now one farang can have many Thai and farang friends; some relationships that have become quite close.

In my experience more bollocks.

This is NOT about naming or calling people out. Please don't do that.

No need, we already know who and what your talking about so you have taken care of that job well enough.

It is however, a question as to what your responsibility is to your friend you know is headed for a train wreck. Do you say anything? Do you do anything? Do you keep your mouth shut and "live and let live" (or die as it were) as Thai society is so apt at doing? Or are you encouraging said behavior by your acts and words? Do you care? If you don't care, just how close can you say you are to your friend?

If you have nothing good to say about Thailand why come here? And more's the point why inflict your twisted bullshit on everyone else?

Ever been around death?

I have. It leaves you with an immense feeling of guilt, even though you know there is nothing more that you could have done and it was not your fault you still end up feeling guilty for surviving. The people who you are not naming have had a month or so to deal with events, not long enough trust me. You come along with your "Is there more we should have done?" or "are we responsible?" bullshit and no doubt you make everything new for the people involved.

You try and portray class and have none.

Have you ever considered giving up your mission and getting a LIFE?

[CiaranM]

I figured enough time had passed from June's and July's sad events to raise this subject.

Really?

Been a burning issue with you for some time then?

I have been coming to Thailand on and off for some time now. I have seen several changes I won't go into here; it's the same old same old I'm interested in.

We're all familiar with Thai society's permissive attitude towards individualism. As long as you don't cause someone (another Thai usually) to "lose face," you can pretty much do whatever you want without any real scorn. This has allowed and encouraged, I believe, countless farang to come to this country and live the "carefree" life. A life of abandon. In too many cases, reckless irresponsibility, which, in the west would be frowned upon goes uncommented on here or depending on circumstances (like being around the like-minded) is met with approval and praise.

frowned upon in the west? Which village do you live in?

I am talking about heavy alcohol, drug and tobacco use/abuse. The kind of abuse that if it goes on long enough will kill you for sure well before your time.

Ohhh I see! Of course none of that in the west.

Enter thailandfriends.com.

Da Da Daaaaaaaaaa! (baddy music!)

Before TF, your average farang either visited or lived in BKK and/or other major tourist areas. He traveled alone or with his Thai girlfriend(s). He may have had another farang acquaintance or three he met for drinks every now and then. But that's it.

Nope not my experience so I consider that to be all bollocks.

No one to say anything about his excessive alcohol/tobacco consumption and no one knew about his drug habits. Partially as a result of TF, now one farang can have many Thai and farang friends; some relationships that have become quite close.

In my experience more bollocks.

This is NOT about naming or calling people out. Please don't do that.

No need, we already know who and what your talking about so you have taken care of that job well enough.

It is however, a question as to what your responsibility is to your friend you know is headed for a train wreck. Do you say anything? Do you do anything? Do you keep your mouth shut and "live and let live" (or die as it were) as Thai society is so apt at doing? Or are you encouraging said behavior by your acts and words? Do you care? If you don't care, just how close can you say you are to your friend?

If you have nothing good to say about Thailand why come here? And more's the point why inflict your twisted bullshit on everyone else?

Ever been around death?

I have. It leaves you with an immense feeling of guilt, even though you know there is nothing more that you could have done and it was not your fault you still end up feeling guilty for surviving. The people who you are not naming have had a month or so to deal with events, not long enough trust me. You come along with your "Is there more we should have done?" or "are we responsible?" bullshit and no doubt you make everything new for the people involved.

You try and portray class and have none.

Have you ever considered giving up your mission and getting a LIFE?

Sh*t mate all those quote boxes must've taken days to put together.

i was pretty f**king impressed also !!!!

btw ... most of the ppl i know in bkk who drink too much, smoke too much and do too many drugs .... here's some news einstein they did as least as much (if not more) back in farang land.

especially drugs as they're a damm sight cheaper and easier to get ......

ehhhhhhh .... so a friend told me !!!!

[zeusbheld]

the careful observer will note that, relative to the cost of living, alcohol is much more expensive in thailand than in the west.

just sayin.

[frankenburner2]

I figured enough time had passed from June's and July's sad events to raise this subject.

Really?

Been a burning issue with you for some time then?

I have been coming to Thailand on and off for some time now. I have seen several changes I won't go into here; it's the same old same old I'm interested in.

We're all familiar with Thai society's permissive attitude towards individualism. As long as you don't cause someone (another Thai usually) to "lose face," you can pretty much do whatever you want without any real scorn. This has allowed and encouraged, I believe, countless farang to come to this country and live the "carefree" life. A life of abandon. In too many cases, reckless irresponsibility, which, in the west would be frowned upon goes uncommented on here or depending on circumstances (like being around the like-minded) is met with approval and praise.

frowned upon in the west? Which village do you live in?

I am talking about heavy alcohol, drug and tobacco use/abuse. The kind of abuse that if it goes on long enough will kill you for sure well before your time.

Ohhh I see! Of course none of that in the west.

Enter thailandfriends.com.

Da Da Daaaaaaaaaa! (baddy music!)

Before TF, your average farang either visited or lived in BKK and/or other major tourist areas. He traveled alone or with his Thai girlfriend(s). He may have had another farang acquaintance or three he met for drinks every now and then. But that's it.

Nope not my experience so I consider that to be all bollocks.

No one to say anything about his excessive alcohol/tobacco consumption and no one knew about his drug habits. Partially as a result of TF, now one farang can have many Thai and farang friends; some relationships that have become quite close.

In my experience more bollocks.

This is NOT about naming or calling people out. Please don't do that.

No need, we already know who and what your talking about so you have taken care of that job well enough.

It is however, a question as to what your responsibility is to your friend you know is headed for a train wreck. Do you say anything? Do you do anything? Do you keep your mouth shut and "live and let live" (or die as it were) as Thai society is so apt at doing? Or are you encouraging said behavior by your acts and words? Do you care? If you don't care, just how close can you say you are to your friend?

If you have nothing good to say about Thailand why come here? And more's the point why inflict your twisted bullshit on everyone else?

Ever been around death?

I have. It leaves you with an immense feeling of guilt, even though you know there is nothing more that you could have done and it was not your fault you still end up feeling guilty for surviving. The people who you are not naming have had a month or so to deal with events, not long enough trust me. You come along with your "Is there more we should have done?" or "are we responsible?" bullshit and no doubt you make everything new for the people involved.

You try and portray class and have none.

Have you ever considered giving up your mission and getting a LIFE?

Sh*t mate all those quote boxes must've taken days to put together.

I did a double-take when I realized it wasn't zeus-"god of all quote boxes"

...all hail the new king of the quote box!

[vbroker]

i do care but i tend to hold my mouth shut as i think we're all adults and i dont like to be telling ppl what to do. sometimes it's sad seeing them ruining themselves, but we all live the life we choose, so i cant help but only respect their decision in life.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong...only that it's the Thai way I already described.

It usually takes a close family member, a near death experience or a traumatic event to wake them up.

How about two actual death experiences? I'm aware you mean "near death experience" or "bottoming" for the individual in question.

You are a compassionate person, Vic.

Most TF'ers are intelligent adults and they deal with their problems in a way that suits them. This thread will be answered as mine was... with sarcasm and jokes and a few comments that tell you that this message is useless because they know what they are doing and it is their choice.

However, if you save or awaken one person or make a difference in even one person's quality of life, kudos to you!!!

Cheers, Don.

When someone is addicted to sex, what arguments would you use to discourage them? I can't find any.

Transferable diseases and unwanted pregnancy are two.

...I don't believe that TF is condoning or encouraging alcohol abuse by it's existence, as I believe that most of the people who do indulge, would do so regardless.

I didn't say the website encourages the various abuses; I said it promotes human to human personal relationships and weakens anonymity. Given those realities, I asked the questions.

If you have nothing good to say about Thailand why come here? And more's the point why inflict your twisted bullshit on everyone else?

Off on a tangent, are we?

Ever been around death?

Nahhhhhhh.....you're the only one, Confucius.

You try and portray class and have none.

Ouch........now I'm really insulted. *Yawn.*

Have you ever considered giving up your mission and getting a LIFE?

Chances are you and I will agree on pretty much.....nothing. As regards most subjects. Given the earlier "logic" employed to justify combining prostitution and long term relationships, no surprise there. Whatever......and thanks for the wonderful comments.

but i gotta make 1 comment on somthing you said vbroker...

In too many cases, reckless irresponsibility, which, in the west would be frowned upon goes uncommented on here

the main reason i am on tf is to socialise because i dont want to spend money hanging around the western pricks who act like asses its far far worse in the uk then in thailand for western idiots. maybe its been a long time since you have got out in your own country? because the sh*t going on nowaays is far from socially exceptable.

although its so commanplace you could be forgiven to think people do except it.

It's true I go out less; partly for the reasons you describe and partly because I'm getting older and I'm bored with it. I have heard rumors there is/was something like one farang suicide per day (week?) in Pattaya. I can't help but think these people arrive at this point following a long, drug and alcohol fueled trip. I think this website has and will continue to bring more and more people together and thus put others into nearer proximity with potential addicts.

So the questions remain. If you see your good friend on a downward spiral, do you step in and say something right away? Do you wait until he or she broaches the subject before you do? Do you say nothing and wait to offer support at such time when it's obvious you're needed? Or is "mum" the word?

[eagle]

I know we all like to debate but a friend is a friend because they care and if you care about someone you try to help them if you see they need it. Especially if they are in peril .

[nthbeachman]

My experience...not an idea simply born out an opinion...but actual experience............and subsequent life preserving need for many things has taught me, despite my denial and resistance........

'Education' or perhaps 'enlightenment' might be a word to describe my what I am trying to share; education about the way in which I understand interpret and give out love....yes that word!..........was and is vital to my being at all a loving and supportive friend. The belief that all I have been taught about how to love was I'm sad but relieved to say very flawed..shock horror!!!

To love another does not have anything to do with not speaking to or about the pain another is in.............any form of pain.

The idea that even on a filial level of love not speak from the heart and soul when I see another person in pain devalues me not to mention the other person intrinsic value. We are taught to avoid and devalue our feelings, and to place our worth and happiness from outside ourselves. This is, if a person is truly and 'addict' the nightmarish reality for such a person. Like some form of torturous Ground Hogs' Day.

I am not talking about telling another what to do...all to frequent the second if not the first response.......this reflexive 'advice'? may be born out of a place of genuinely wanting to help another but unsolicited advice is usually about making the giver feel more comfortable than aiding the recipient of said advice.

P

[vbroker]

btw ... most of the ppl i know in bkk who drink too much, smoke too much and do too many drugs .... here's some news einstein they did as least as much (if not more) back in farang land.

And yet so many ended up concentrated in Thailand and its many bars. One prime example: if one wanted to, one could drink (that is buy liquor) 24 hours a day 7 days a week there; regardless the meaningless government regulations. Thanks for making my point for me, W.C. Fields.

the careful observer will note that, relative to the cost of living, alcohol is much more expensive in thailand than in the west.

just sayin.

Correct. You forgot to define the context, however. I'll do it for you.

If your rent is 4000 Baht (find the feline-friendly joint yet?) and you're spending 200 Baht per day on street food you could manage to get your living cost down to around 10,000 Baht per month. That's U.S. $300. That's impossible to do in any major (or even minor) U.S. city. If all else is equal, that is you have a western income/pension, that leaves one helluva lot of left over discretionary booze funds, doesn't it? You could bring in as little as U.S. $1,000 or 35,000 Baht per month and accomplish this feat. You'd have roughly 25,000 Baht left over to buy 250 beers at 100 Baht per beer. That's over 8 per day; every day of the month. Enough to drink yourself into an early grave; even at western prices.

[CiaranM]

btw ... most of the ppl i know in bkk who drink too much, smoke too much and do too many drugs .... here's some news einstein they did as least as much (if not more) back in farang land.

And yet so many ended up concentrated in Thailand and its many bars. One prime example: if one wanted to, one could drink (that is buy liquor) 24 hours a day 7 days a week there; regardless the meaningless government regulations. Thanks for making my point for me, W.C. Fields.

come on ... if u make the effort and if u want u can drink 24/7 near enough anywhere u want not just BKK.

sure if u look around bars in BKK u r gonna see lots of guys drinking ... what do u think u will see in bars back in farang land ??

something similar i would guess !!!