Blackwater mercenaries...?

[bomb_defuzer]

I wonder how I just knew "beej" would post such a comment.. :roll: hmmm... could it be his... headgear??

Actually it's just a picture he likes to put up. He's white I belive but can always count on ciaran, beej. zbh, and loburt to be on the total anti-democratic/anti-american .. run for cover and hide contigent.

Blackwater is a security and private contracting firm made up special forces mostly US but always british SAS, SRR, and Royal Marine Commandos. They are selected as noted before because they all (because of their skills and training) have at least 6 years military service. To be a Green Beret (army special forces) you must be a sergent (for enlisted or captain for officers) just as an exmaple. They do security for celeb's, politicians in many countries and for many countries. In more major contracts they include rotorary-wing craft for placement and extraction of units. They also train local units of police, SWAT, special forces, regular army,field medical personnel, and logistics as well.

u missed out the bit about murdering unarmed civilians !!!

WTF do you know. You been there? have you done it Do you personally know anyone that is associated with Blackwater?

Hmm...that's what I thought. Another ill informed keyboard jockey.

[Loburt]

I belive but can always count on ciaran, beej. zbh, and loburt to be on the total anti-democratic/anti-american .. run for cover and hide contigent.

We're not anti-American, Paulie girl. We're anti-you.

As for running for cover and hiding, why aren't you over there fighting, tough guy? Oh, that's right, you claim the army rejected you. The US military is scouring prisons to find "volunteers" to fight in Iraq, but you can't make the cut. Very impressive.

And if the army won't take you, why haven't you joined one of the private security firms working there?

I'm sure you could impress them your record of threatening bodily harm against women who don't respond to your creepy advances.

[Zombiedriven]

Before this topic starts to get off track once again.

The people in Black Water that fired upon the civilians where brought to charges.

This happened shortly after the incident. And now the civilian contractors are being held to the same Jurisdiction as the Military. Meaning that if you F*ck up you get tried by the Military and if you are lucky not by your Home country also.

So in essence you will be tried for the crime twice. And it can be done because you are not being tried and prosecuted by the same laws.

I know this because I had to sign on the document telling me this otherwise I would have had to leave the theater of operations. I.E. leave my job.

And before any body says that I am standing up for what the Black Water contractors did I am not. I have worked Beside people from Black Water and for the most part they are strictly business. I have not worked in Iraq like I.L.S.M. but I am working in AF.

so feel free to send in the flack. If you feel the urge to say I am wrong so be it. That is what freedom is all about ain't it?

[Guest iamsamtoo]

Sorry was in a hurry....

Freedom isn't freedom if when someone else has to protect it for you.. . or it's taken from you.

Interesting thing to say. I agree to a degree becos I know ur talking about extreme cases where violence is abundant. However, dont forget that you are always protected no matter where you are, hence your freedoms can always be taken away when seen fit.

Now, If freedom isnt freedom (as in the extreme examples) if someone has to protect it for you, then why doesnt democracy fall under the same category?

[dannyboy]

Chew on this english boy, don''t judge unless you've done it or been there. What a concept.... :roll: Your so freakin clueless...

Ciaran's Irish.

If you must bring someone's nationality in to it, make sure it's correct or you just end up looking like misinformed cretin.....

[i_love_som_tam]

The people in Black Water that fired upon the civilians where brought to charges.

This happened shortly after the incident. And now the civilian contractors are being held to the same Jurisdiction as the Military. Meaning that if you F*ck up you get tried by the Military and if you are lucky not by your Home country also.

From all the news accounts I have read, the Blackwater guys were not arrested for the shooting in Sulamaniya. The resulting investigation conducted by the FBI did bring into question some of the weapons that Blackwater was in possession of. Some were imported into Iraq illegally and ended up in the wrong hands.

A former Blackwater logistics employee in the USA was indicted for illegal exportation of weapons to Iraq.

As far as being prosecuted following the USMCJ, unless things have changed since I was in country, the military has jurisdiction only on the military installations as far as contractors are concerned, not off base as the country is now controlled by the Iraqi government, not the US military.

Contractors can be prosecuted by the US Department of Justice for crimes committed in Iraq but only if the contractors clearly violated the Rules of Engagement which is a lot less strict than the military's ROE.

[zeusbheld]

Chew on this english boy, don''t judge unless you've done it or been there. What a concept.... :roll: Your so freakin clueless...

Ciaran's Irish.

If you must bring someone's nationality in to it, make sure it's correct or you just end up looking like misinformed cretin.....

again? why is everyone picking on Cretins? never been there but from what i hear, Crete is a lovely island.

[steevolution]

Chew on this english boy, don''t judge unless you've done it or been there. What a concept.... :roll: Your so freakin clueless...

Below is message from an Army Special Forces Soldier "Green Beret" serving in Iraq:

Last Sunday while most of America was enjoying the Superbowl several members of our Task Force were commencing an assault on a terrorist stronghold in Iraq. During the assault two of our brothers from the Navy were shot and killed while clearing a building that was occupied by terrorist insurgents. Ultimately, the building was reduced (precision bombed by aircraft) and all of the terrorists in it were destroyed by the assault force. Remember these names, Mike and Nate. They were good men doing honorable work in the name of freedom. The terrorists they sought to destroy were responsible for unspeakable acts of evil including the construction of improvised explosive devices and explosives to equip homicide bombers. For those of you who may not understand the enemy we face out here let me remind you that the previous week this group of terrorists took two innocent and unwitting women who had Downs Syndrome, rigged them with explosive vests and detonated them 20 minutes apart in a crowded market causing several deaths and hundreds of injuries. These terrorists used innocent people as unwitting vehicles to destroy more innocent lives. There is good and there is evil in this world. The enemy we face is evil. Mike and Nate were fighting on the side of good to prevent further acts of evil that would result in the loss of more innocent lives. The next time you pray I ask you to thank God for giving Mike and Nate the talent and skill that made them great warriors and thank God that he gave them the heart to apply those God given talents to destroy evil and further the cause of freedom in a land far from their home. Thank God for men like Mike and Nate. Their work is done here now, but there are many of us who will honor their sacrifice by continuing the fight against evil terrorists. They will be remembered through our actions.

For any of you out there who are doubting the validity of this war and the evil that resides in our enemy I ask you to study your history again. Over the last 20+ years dating back to the bombing of the Marine Corps Barracks in Lebanon, various factions of radical Islamic Terrorists have been committing heinous acts of terrorism against the free world. We are fighting the same enemy here. The brethren of an evil ideology that spawned the terrorists attacks of September 11, 2001 claiming almost 3,000 innocent lives. Take time to reflect on the type of evil that would put explosive vests on innocent women with Downs Syndrome and use them to kill and maim other innocent people. While the American media strives everyday to rewrite the history of the most generous nation in the free world and cast disparity over all that we do as a Nation men like Mike and Nate are giving their lives to make sure the real history doesn't repeat itself. While the American media strives daily to erase the memory of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 and paint this war as an unjust occupation of a sovereign nation men like Mike and Nate are out here hunting down and destroying the enemies of the very freedom that allows our media to try and discredit us. Terrorism is real, evil is real, this war is real and real men and women are in this fight because righteousness and freedom are worth fighting for.

If you don't support this war I'm calling you out. I've had enough of people sitting in their living rooms watching the lying media and jumping on the bandwagon against this war. Don't ever say to me, "I support the troops, but not the war." You might as well be telling me that I'm committing a crime. You are in effect saying that my cause is unjust and everything I believe in is a lie. I have held my tongue in the past, but I will never allow you to have it both ways again. You cannot support me if you do not support this war. I am this war. It embodies everything that I believe in. If you believe that what we are doing here is wrong then you are in effect supporting the evil we seek to destroy. If you believe I'm wrong for trying to stop evil people from taking more innocent lives then I fear there is no hope for you. If you choose to dishonor my service and the sacrifice of my fallen brothers by taking a position against this war you are free to make that choice thanks to guys like Mike and Nate, but don't expect me to sit idly by and bite my tongue while you do it. Do it in my presence and be prepared to try and support your feeble position while I enlighten everyone else on the reality of this war and the nature of the enemy we face. I will ensure that you look like the fool that you are.

The stuff I'm seeing out here you won't see on Oprah Winfrey. I'm seeing really evil people doing really evil things and I'm doing everything in my power to stop them. There's nothing wrong or unjust about that.

Sincerely,

_________ the Angry American

you think yor gonna wave a flag and an M-16 in my face and i'm gonna shut up?!? in the US, CIVILIANS TELL THE MILITARY what to do. "Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do and die".

the most important concept they teach at West Point and the other US military academies is OBEDIENCE TO CIVILIAN AUTHORITY, so pretty much by definition, people who have not been shot at are gonna be tellin "grunts" and "jarheads" what to do. get used to it or get out, or as i've been told so many times, "Love it or leave it." the alternative is no longer a democracy, it's a military dictatorship.

the guns and other toys and swaggering around in uniforms can sometimes swell the heads of cops and soldiers, but YOU work for US. don't forget it. (and tell yor Angry American pal not to forget it either.)

i have studied my history, and everything i've seen says that the US is in the Middle East to facilitate Filthy Rich Fukkers lining their pockets by selling oil and weapons and blowing up and then rebuilding various countries, all at taxpayer/working person expense. yor Angry American is the one who needs to wake up and see what a sucker he is. at least get out of the underpaid military and pull down the war-profiteer type money.

Bin Laden wants foreigners off the Arabian Peninsula. he's a f**ked up muthrfukker, but foreign powers have no legitimate reason to be on the Arabian Peninsula. let him have it! ****. then let all the different fundamentalist religious fanatics turn on each other. all they can agree on right now is that they hate Israelis. the Shias and Sunnis and a hundred other splinters and sects and factions hate each other as much as the Protestants and Catholics ever did.

PS the Downs Syndrome Bomber thing smells like bullshit to me, like the "Iraqis tossing newborns out of incubators" in Kuwait.

[Treborz]

The Downs syndrome incident is true i remember it from the news

Remote-controlled explosives were strapped to two women with Down's syndrome and detonated in coordinated attacks on two Friday morning markets in central Baghdad yesterday, killing at least 73 people and wounding nearly 150.

The first targeted shoppers at a pet market in the al-Ghazl area, killing 46 people and injuring 100. About 20 minutes later, a second bomber struck at a smaller bird market in south-eastern Baghdad, killing 27 people and wounding at least 67.

The toll made it one of the deadliest days since the US troop surge a year ago began to arrest the spread of violence.

The chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad, Brigadier General Qassim al-Moussawi, claimed the female bombers had Down's syndrome and that the explosives were detonated by remote control, indicating they may not have been willing attackers in what could be a new method by suspected Sunni insurgents to subvert stepped-up security measures.

The US ambassador to Iraq, Ryan Crocker, said the bombings showed that al-Qaida has "found a different, deadly way" to try to destabilise Iraq.

US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice said the bombings in Iraq proved al-Qaida is "the most brutal and bankrupt of movements" and would strengthen Iraqi resolve to reject terrorism.

Police said both bombers were women who had slipped past local security checks by hiding explosives under their black abaya robes.

Major-General Qassim Moussawi, spokesman for the Iraqi military in Baghdad, said the suicide bombs were detonated remotely by mobile telephones. "We found the mobiles used to detonate the women," he said, adding that the women had mental disabilities. He did not elaborate on how the Iraqi military knew about their mental condition.

Source http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/02/iraq.international1

[steevolution]

The Downs syndrome incident is true i remember it from the news

Remote-controlled explosives were strapped to two women with Down's syndrome and detonated in coordinated attacks on two Friday morning markets in central Baghdad yesterday, killing at least 73 people and wounding nearly 150.

The first targeted shoppers at a pet market in the al-Ghazl area, killing 46 people and injuring 100. About 20 minutes later, a second bomber struck at a smaller bird market in south-eastern Baghdad, killing 27 people and wounding at least 67.

The toll made it one of the deadliest days since the US troop surge a year ago began to arrest the spread of violence.

The chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad, Brigadier General Qassim al-Moussawi, claimed the female bombers had Down's syndrome and that the explosives were detonated by remote control, indicating they may not have been willing attackers in what could be a new method by suspected Sunni insurgents to subvert stepped-up security measures.

The US ambassador to Iraq, Ryan Crocker, said the bombings showed that al-Qaida has "found a different, deadly way" to try to destabilise Iraq.

US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice said the bombings in Iraq proved al-Qaida is "the most brutal and bankrupt of movements" and would strengthen Iraqi resolve to reject terrorism.

Police said both bombers were women who had slipped past local security checks by hiding explosives under their black abaya robes.

Major-General Qassim Moussawi, spokesman for the Iraqi military in Baghdad, said the suicide bombs were detonated remotely by mobile telephones. "We found the mobiles used to detonate the women," he said, adding that the women had mental disabilities. He did not elaborate on how the Iraqi military knew about their mental condition.

Source http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/02/iraq.international1

oh yeah, this really makes it "true". ask yourself how the military spokesman would have determined by the very next day that the "women" had Downs Syndrome. wouldn't explosions that kill 73 and injure 150 make the mental capacity, even the sex of the bombers just a little difficult and time consuming to determine?

the "babies tossed from incubators" story was also widely reported. picked up by every news service in the world. it was widely reported BULLSHIT, perpetrated on gullible motherfukkers by Iraqi politicians.

anyway, if it is indeed "a new method by suspected Sunni insurgents to subvert stepped-up security measures" it'll at least reduce the shattered country's mental health costs. Hitler would be proud.

[Treborz]

Sorry i was away travelling at the time of the incident and heard it in passing on BBC world news....I assumed you hadn't heard of the incident taking place at all and thought the green beret in that post was plucking it out of thin air.

I agree though it's not proof....just wanted to make sure you knew it had been reported, sorry for the misunderstanding.

[CiaranM]

Sorry i was away travelling at the time of the incident and heard it in passing on BBC world news....I assumed you hadn't heard of the incident taking place at all and thought the green beret in that post was plucking it out of thin air.

I agree though it's not proof....just wanted to make sure you knew it had been reported, sorry for the misunderstanding.

there was also a follow up article in the guardian claiming the story wasn't true ... just been trying to find it, but can't !!!

[CiaranM]

whoops sorry it wasn't in the guardian ... it was in the independant !!

More often, the lies have been small, designed to make a propaganda point for a day even if they are exposed as untrue a few weeks later. One example of this to shows in detail how propaganda distorts day-to-day reporting in Iraq, but, if the propagandist knows his job, is very difficult to disprove.

On 1 February this year, two suicide bombers, said to be female, blew themselves up in two pet markets in predominantly Shia areas of Baghdad, al Ghazil and al-Jadida, and killed 99 people. Iraqi government officials immediately said the bombers had the chromosonal disorder Down's syndrome, which they could tell this from looking at the severed heads of the bombers. Sadly, horrific bombings in Iraq are so common that they no longer generate much media interest abroad. It was the Down's syndrome angle which made the story front-page news. It showed al-Qa'ida in Iraq was even more inhumanly evil than one had supposed (if that were possible) and it meant, so Iraqi officials said, that al-Qa'ida was running out of volunteers.

The Times splashed on it under the headline, "Down's syndrome bombers kill 91". The story stated firmly that "explosives strapped to two women with Down's syndrome were detonated by remote control in crowded pet markets". Other papers, including The Independent, felt the story had a highly suspicious smell to it. How much could really be told about the mental condition of a woman from a human head shattered by a powerful bomb? Reliable eyewitnesses in suicide bombings are difficult to find because anybody standing close to the bomber is likely to be dead or in hospital.

The US military later supported the Iraqi claim that the bombers had Down's syndrome. On 10 February, they arrested Dr Sahi Aboub, the acting director of the al Rashad mental hospital in east Baghdad, alleging that he had provided mental patients for use by al-Qa'ida. The Iraqi Interior Ministry started rounding up beggars and mentally disturbed people on the grounds that they might be potential bombers.

But on 21 February, an American military spokes-man said there was no evidence the bombers had Down's. Adel Mohsin, a senior official at the Health Ministry in Baghdad, poured scorn on the idea that Dr Aboub could have done business with the Sunni fanatics of al-Qa'ida because he was a Shia and had only been in the job a few weeks.

A second doctor, who did not want to give his name, pointed out that al Rashad hospital is run by the fundamentalist Shia Mehdi Army and asked: "How would it be possible for al-Qa'ida to get in there?"

Few people in Baghdad now care about the exact circumstances of the bird market bombings apart from Dr Aboub, who is still in jail, and the mentally disturbed beggars who were incarcerated. Unfortunately, it is all too clear that al-Qa'ida is not running out of suicide bombers. But it is pieces of propaganda such as this small example, often swallowed whole by the media and a thousand times repeated, which cumulatively mask the terrible reality of Iraq.

full story here ....

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/patrick-cockburn-this-is-the-war-that-started-with-lies-and-continues-with-lie-after-lie-after-lie-797788.html

[beej]

So much bullshit that gets span out of all control.

[Loburt]

Well, I think what's really sad is not that someone in the military would make something up, as we expect they will do that, but that they have to make something up to get anyone to report on a suicide bombing that kills 99 people.

[zeusbheld]

I love the way the story makes it so black and white: There's ers gurd guys and there's them bad'ens. Arh, the world is a simple place for dumb marines.

looking at most threads, seems a pretty simple place for most TFers too.

[Loburt]

In Thailand, sometimes that's the same thing.

[steevolution]

I love the way the story makes it so black and white: There's ers gurd guys and there's them bad'ens. Arh, the world is a simple place for dumb marines.

i don't hold it against them. they gotta make it simple if they want to survive. it's the fukkin fukker bloodsucker string-pullin lizardmen that need to have their heads and asses impaled on poles. they make everyone else tools just so they can stuff their mouths full of food with both hands and both feet. fukkin greedheads.

[CiaranM]

Well, I think what's really sad is not that someone in the military would make something up, as we expect they will do that, but that they have to make something up to get anyone to report on a suicide bombing that kills 99 people.

yeah .... it's a real shame .... but after so many deaths ppl seem to become numb to all the killing so some new angle is needed to sell the news !!

[LakeGeneve]

Not surprisingly but most unfortunately, the case against Blackwater personnel is falling apart.

Efforts to Prosecute Blackwater Are CollapsingBy JAMES RISEN

NYT Published: October 20, 2010

WASHINGTON — Nearly four years after the federal government began a string of investigations and criminal prosecutions against Blackwater Worldwide personnel accused of murder and other violent crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan, the cases are beginning to fall apart, burdened by a legal obstacle of the government’s own making.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/21/world/21contractors.html?hp