Neo Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 All the same, it is a pity that RULE OF LAW thingy/idea did not extend to the PAD when they occupied the government buildings and then later the airports etc etc The fact that such stunts would not be tolerated in just about any western democracy is hardly worth mentioning now is it? The biased BS seems to be to be your strong point. Sigh... more incorrect western media opinion again I'm afraid Mr Alltouristman Chamlong (he's one of the main PAD leaders) made a statement saying he wants the authorities to take the appopriate measures for anything illegal that the PAD did. The PAD leaders were arrested during the government house occupation. I won't deny that there is more going on behind the scenes.. things that can't be mentioned here. But that happens in any democracy and has not prevented Rule Of Law here. It takes time to bring cases like that to court. It took about 5 years to get Thaksin to court, longer for some of the corruption cases against him. Also the police tried to remove the protestors but screwed up so badly that they dare not make a second attempt.But wait.. this is not what the stories that you love are saying... how can this be true? Your opinions are always welcome here.. the uninformed lightweight bs you quote is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseasonsman Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 All the same, it is a pity that RULE OF LAW thingy/idea did not extend to the PAD when they occupied the government buildings and then later the airports etc etc The fact that such stunts would not be tolerated in just about any western democracy is hardly worth mentioning now is it? The biased BS seems to be to be your strong point. Sigh... more incorrect western media opinion again I'm afraid Mr Alltouristman . No that was my view expressed by me! As for me being a tourist? You know next to nothing about me! So why oh why you would make silly assumptions instead of dealing with the points made can only mean that when you can't make coherent and logical points you go for distraction and abstraction. Sorry mate but you just don't make sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 All the same, it is a pity that RULE OF LAW thingy/idea did not extend to the PAD when they occupied the government buildings and then later the airports etc etc The fact that such stunts would not be tolerated in just about any western democracy is hardly worth mentioning now is it? The biased BS seems to be to be your strong point. Sigh... more incorrect western media opinion again I'm afraid Mr Alltouristman . No that was my view expressed by me! As for me being a tourist? You know next to nothing about me! So why oh why you would make silly assumptions instead of dealing with the points made can only mean that when you can't make coherent and logical points you go for distraction and abstraction. Sorry mate but you just don't make sense! tourist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeGeneve Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 An end to Thai democracy?By Gwynne Dyer on Wed, 17 Dec 2008 The political crisis in Thailand is over, and so is the 10-year experiment with democracy. What is the point of posting this mate when the first line is blatently incorrect twice? Gwynne seems like another Giles socialist orientated idealogue? Actually no your just wrong! This article was spot on and explained the real situation very accurately indeed. One could argue that the political crisis is not over because the people who have been disenfranchised by this judicial coup - a coup by stealth and back room deals- are not going to take this lying down maybe? Perhaps we will see even greater civil unrest now in the not so distant future? However as the article points out, the army and powerful elites have got their way and they in effect now control the country. The experiment with democracy is indeed over. We now can see a junta with a puppet figure head and the pretense of politics and democracy. After the coup in 2006 and then this second 2008 coup in as many years Thailand is now officially a joke state in which the puppet masters pull all the strings. The sad part is that this backward step will serve Thailand very poorly indeed. The risk is that the country will split even further and that following the death of the King [which could happen at any time] the country will slide into free fall chaos as the huge inequalities and contradictions of the society become ever more apparent and egregious. It might take 1-2 years or 10 years but at some stage this country will explode into civil conflict and violence. The it will just become and open Junta. Had there been no coup in 20006 then Mr T would indeed have been got rid of in time anyway. Democracy would have been seen to work and the project to keep Thailand on a stable road towards becoming a mature democracy would have kept on evolving and moving forwards. Imperfect and very frustrating it would have been for sure but it could have worked out in the long run. To those you say Thailand is special and is not ready for Democracy? Well it may be poorly placed for it to flourish but with time it could and would have worked here no less well than Japan- South Korea and Taiwan etc etc. All far more advanced and richer countries. Thailand could have aimed for such a situation in due course had it stayed on the road to being a mature Democracy. That is all gone now as it has just reverted to a previous state of being from it's murky past. The consequence is that we may see some short term stability but Thailand and its government will not be taken too seriously by the richer countries. They will be seen as only a few steps above the likes of Burma and there will be a sort of nudge and a wink from the western governments- who as always ultimately don't give a crap about the well being of the likes of the people of Thailand. Just so long as there is the pretense of Thailand being a democracy and they can still do business with some degree of security or consistency then they will turn a blind eye to what will without doubt be seen as a coup [by stealth] by the foreign affairs departments of the western countries. It will fade from the news in the west and just be regarded as another mickey mouse country along the lines of Juntas in Central/South America in the 70s. In short it is a case of : BACK TO THE PAST for Thailand. The good news is that little will change much for the Farangs who visit or live there. However the tensions within the society and the damage already done by the mad PAD with the Airports stunts will take a while to be forgotten. Tourism will suffer for a few years now- just not sure to what extent. I really don't understand why you keep grasping at straws and posting anything in various threads (especially socialist/marxist writers blinded by the prism of their own ideology) which you somehow believe supports your confusing contentions. Some of your views are a taken but then they become flawed with either unfounded extremities or contradictory statements. Again, I observe this ongoing pattern that most of the members who live in Thailand don't know anything BUT you know the truth of things. No one is going to claim that they know exactly what is unfolding but there are some who do have a good idea and it would not hurt to listen to them now and then. You seemed more concerned with stating to everyone just how bad things are in Thailand without much considered or relative context. There is such a mixmatch of political analysis in your views that it is hard to make sense of what is the prognosis your advocating. One month ago you said civil war was imminent and that Thailand was about to become a "nasty and dangerous" place. No one here doubts that there will be further violence and that this ongoing power struggle is far from over. And then you talk of Juntas similar to Burma and that "the experiment with democracy is indeed over" displaying a strong ignorance of the history, nuances and complexities of politics here. As has been suggested many a time by many members take on board some of the comments from people who have lived here for a while. May I humbly suggest you just lin articles or posts extracts give thefull article post a rest for a while? And to be a complete sarcastic, prick I am going to say again (to continue from the airport thread) PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not forget from Dublin to update all of us in thailand when that civil war is about to explode so that we can make the necessary arrangements otherwise we may miss it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 As for me being a tourist? You know next to nothing about me! So why oh why you would make silly assumptions instead of dealing with the points made can only mean that when you can't make coherent and logical points you go for distraction and abstraction. Sorry mate but you just don't make sense! from Allseasonsman profile... Location Country Ireland City dublin About Me New to the world of TF and Thailand generally. Had a good experience of Thailand on my first and only ever trip and sort of fell in love with the country. People seems so friendly and warm while the weather and climate are simply great. I look forward to spending some real quality time in Thailand on my next trip. ...tourist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 From the Washington Post:During the intense politicking that followed Somchai's removal, each side accused the other of offering money in return for votes. The Democrats quarantined many of their newly won supporters overnight Sunday, keeping them in hotels and telling them to switch off their telephones to make sure that their opponents could not poach them. The protesters from the People's Alliance for Democracy, a minority, middle-class group, said they would return to the streets if any of Somchai's allies were made prime minister. Many of the lawmakers who changed sides said they did so to avoid a repeat of the impasse. "He was hoisted into office by the back door," Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a political scientist, said of Abhisit. "The military have arm-twisted former government MPs to change sides; he's benefited from a kind of judicial veto exercised when the courts don't like the government, and the People's Alliance for Democracy has effectively blackmailed the legislature" to prevent another government formed by supporters of Somchai. anyone who has been on this forum the last few months knows i am NOT in any way in favor of PAD. but i have to say that this article you excerpted shows the typical western bias: because Toxin was elected, his side must be the good guys. this is bullshit, and a dangerous assumption. for starters, the red clapper clowns don't represent 'the majority' as is tacitly implied here, and they are, if anything, far more thuggish. (or at least as paramilitary organizations with stupid clapper thingys go, far less disciplined than PAD). i think it reasonable to suggest that MPs went into hiding for legit reasons (suffice to say that the attacks on MP's motorcade was not an anomaly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 As for me being a tourist? You know next to nothing about me! So why oh why you would make silly assumptions instead of dealing with the points made can only mean that when you can't make coherent and logical points you go for distraction and abstraction. Sorry mate but you just don't make sense! from Allseasonsman profile... Location Country Ireland City dublin About Me New to the world of TF and Thailand generally. Had a good experience of Thailand on my first and only ever trip and sort of fell in love with the country. People seems so friendly and warm while the weather and climate are simply great. I look forward to spending some real quality time in Thailand on my next trip. ...tourist u r being far too nice .... jackeen a**hole !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_Sorco Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 New Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was born in Newcastle, England The Country is going to be run by a Geordie...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseasonsman Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 As for me being a tourist? You know next to nothing about me! So why oh why you would make silly assumptions instead of dealing with the points made can only mean that when you can't make coherent and logical points you go for distraction and abstraction. Sorry mate but you just don't make sense! from Allseasonsman profile... Location Country Ireland City dublin About Me New to the world of TF and Thailand generally. Had a good experience of Thailand on my first and only ever trip and sort of fell in love with the country. People seems so friendly and warm while the weather and climate are simply great. I look forward to spending some real quality time in Thailand on my next trip. ...tourist Well once again you show your true colors! Having lost the argument and failed to make any really worthwhile posts you then try to attack the poster and not the content of the post! As I said before. You presume far too much and make ignorant assumptions as a result. The profile is out of date and has not been updated for quite some time indeed. The tactic you use o this thread does indeed say a lot more about you and not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseasonsman Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 As for me being a tourist? You know next to nothing about me! So why oh why you would make silly assumptions instead of dealing with the points made can only mean that when you can't make coherent and logical points you go for distraction and abstraction. Sorry mate but you just don't make sense! from Allseasonsman profile... Location Country Ireland City dublin About Me New to the world of TF and Thailand generally. Had a good experience of Thailand on my first and only ever trip and sort of fell in love with the country. People seems so friendly and warm while the weather and climate are simply great. I look forward to spending some real quality time in Thailand on my next trip. ...tourist u r being far too nice .... jackeen a**hole !! Good old dependable Mr Ciaran! When we want an uncouth ignorant input we can always count on you! As your mother woud have told you You need to wash your mouth with a bar of soap- coz barely a sentence can go by without something foul coming out of it. Try get an education Ciaran and grow up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseasonsman Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 From the Washington Post:During the intense politicking that followed Somchai's removal, each side accused the other of offering money in return for votes. The Democrats quarantined many of their newly won supporters overnight Sunday, keeping them in hotels and telling them to switch off their telephones to make sure that their opponents could not poach them. The protesters from the People's Alliance for Democracy, a minority, middle-class group, said they would return to the streets if any of Somchai's allies were made prime minister. Many of the lawmakers who changed sides said they did so to avoid a repeat of the impasse. "He was hoisted into office by the back door," Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a political scientist, said of Abhisit. "The military have arm-twisted former government MPs to change sides; he's benefited from a kind of judicial veto exercised when the courts don't like the government, and the People's Alliance for Democracy has effectively blackmailed the legislature" to prevent another government formed by supporters of Somchai. anyone who has been on this forum the last few months knows i am NOT in any way in favor of PAD. but i have to say that this article you excerpted shows the typical western bias: because Toxin was elected, his side must be the good guys. this is bullshit, and a dangerous assumption. for starters, the red clapper clowns don't represent 'the majority' as is tacitly implied here, and they are, if anything, far more thuggish. (or at least as paramilitary organizations with stupid clapper thingys go, far less disciplined than PAD). i think it reasonable to suggest that MPs went into hiding for legit reasons (suffice to say that the attacks on MP's motorcade was not an anomaly). Well of course all the experts are wrong and you and all those farangs who live in Thailand know everything so much better than all the political science experts. Well forgive for not rating you as anywhere nearly as informed or qualified as the people who study this stuff all the time-for a living! Try reading a bit more and actually listen to other peoples views! Some reading suggestions for you Foreign affairs http://www.foreignaffairs.org/ Foreign Policy http://www.foreignpolicy.com/ The Economist http://www.economist.com/ and a whole world out there of resources to read expert view from people who spend hours and hours studying this stuff. Then again maybe you know better than everyone! Along with some of the clowns on here who know so little actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseasonsman Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 An end to Thai democracy?By Gwynne Dyer on Wed, 17 Dec 2008 The political crisis in Thailand is over, and so is the 10-year experiment with democracy. What is the point of posting this mate when the first line is blatently incorrect twice? Gwynne seems like another Giles socialist orientated idealogue? Actually no your just wrong! This article was spot on and explained the real situation very accurately indeed. One could argue that the political crisis is not over because the people who have been disenfranchised by this judicial coup - a coup by stealth and back room deals- are not going to take this lying down maybe? Perhaps we will see even greater civil unrest now in the not so distant future? However as the article points out, the army and powerful elites have got their way and they in effect now control the country. The experiment with democracy is indeed over. We now can see a junta with a puppet figure head and the pretense of politics and democracy. After the coup in 2006 and then this second 2008 coup in as many years Thailand is now officially a joke state in which the puppet masters pull all the strings. The sad part is that this backward step will serve Thailand very poorly indeed. The risk is that the country will split even further and that following the death of the King [which could happen at any time] the country will slide into free fall chaos as the huge inequalities and contradictions of the society become ever more apparent and egregious. It might take 1-2 years or 10 years but at some stage this country will explode into civil conflict and violence. The it will just become and open Junta. Had there been no coup in 20006 then Mr T would indeed have been got rid of in time anyway. Democracy would have been seen to work and the project to keep Thailand on a stable road towards becoming a mature democracy would have kept on evolving and moving forwards. Imperfect and very frustrating it would have been for sure but it could have worked out in the long run. To those you say Thailand is special and is not ready for Democracy? Well it may be poorly placed for it to flourish but with time it could and would have worked here no less well than Japan- South Korea and Taiwan etc etc. All far more advanced and richer countries. Thailand could have aimed for such a situation in due course had it stayed on the road to being a mature Democracy. That is all gone now as it has just reverted to a previous state of being from it's murky past. The consequence is that we may see some short term stability but Thailand and its government will not be taken too seriously by the richer countries. They will be seen as only a few steps above the likes of Burma and there will be a sort of nudge and a wink from the western governments- who as always ultimately don't give a crap about the well being of the likes of the people of Thailand. Just so long as there is the pretense of Thailand being a democracy and they can still do business with some degree of security or consistency then they will turn a blind eye to what will without doubt be seen as a coup [by stealth] by the foreign affairs departments of the western countries. It will fade from the news in the west and just be regarded as another mickey mouse country along the lines of Juntas in Central/South America in the 70s. In short it is a case of : BACK TO THE PAST for Thailand. The good news is that little will change much for the Farangs who visit or live there. However the tensions within the society and the damage already done by the mad PAD with the Airports stunts will take a while to be forgotten. Tourism will suffer for a few years now- just not sure to what extent. I really don't understand why you keep grasping at straws and posting anything in various threads (especially socialist/marxist writers blinded by the prism of their own ideology) which you somehow believe supports your confusing contentions. Some of your views are a taken but then they become flawed with either unfounded extremities or contradictory statements. Again, I observe this ongoing pattern that most of the members who live in Thailand don't know anything BUT you know the truth of things. No one is going to claim that they know exactly what is unfolding but there are some who do have a good idea and it would not hurt to listen to them now and then. You seemed more concerned with stating to everyone just how bad things are in Thailand without much considered or relative context. There is such a mixmatch of political analysis in your views that it is hard to make sense of what is the prognosis your advocating. One month ago you said civil war was imminent and that Thailand was about to become a "nasty and dangerous" place. No one here doubts that there will be further violence and that this ongoing power struggle is far from over. And then you talk of Juntas similar to Burma and that "the experiment with democracy is indeed over" displaying a strong ignorance of the history, nuances and complexities of politics here. As has been suggested many a time by many members take on board some of the comments from people who have lived here for a while. May I humbly suggest you just lin articles or posts extracts give thefull article post a rest for a while? And to be a complete sarcastic, prick I am going to say again (to continue from the airport thread) PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not forget from Dublin to update all of us in thailand when that civil war is about to explode so that we can make the necessary arrangements otherwise we may miss it! Sad to say you are writing too much rubbish here that it is too painful to try educate you. In short if you want to be an ignorant -expletive- then work away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 One ring to unite them all, hopes Abhisit Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was the ''lord of the ring'' as he pondered the band of gold an elderly Isan woman gave him last year. She told him it was a symbol of fellowship between him and people in all regions of the country. At a televised press conference at Democrat party headquarters last night, Mr Abhisit raised the gold ring he said he had received from 84-year-old grandma Niam during a visit to Ubon Ratchathani province. ''When I was there on an election campaign,'' Mr Abhisit said tearfully, ''... she gave me this ring and said I was now engaged to northeasterners.'' He was recalling the meeting under a tree beside farmland in Muang Samsip district on Aug 8 last year. ''I don't know if grandma Niam is watching. But I'd like to tell her today that the man who received the ring from her will work for her, her relatives, her northeastern people and all her Thai compatriots with fairness, dedication and honesty,'' he said in a clear message to rural people, including those in the Northeast where the Democrats struggle to win votes. ''I do know that one man can neither do everything nor solve every problem. And I know that from now on I will not be able to make everyone love me, agree with me or even support me.'' Sorry for that I "Copy and Paste" It's from Bangkok Post. I read this morning. http://www.bangkokpost.com/181208_News/18Dec2008_news04.php actually, I heard his speech in Thai version Compared with Thaksin, Samak, and Somchai speech... Abhisit is the WINNER. I remember about Thaksin once he talked about provinces which supported him were good, and he would give budget to support them... such a bias speech. Abhisit was my teacher when I was studying communication arts. From what I know he was a nice teacher. So I hope his ideals not change. and hope he can do what he said. It's not perfect time to become Mr.PM for him. Many problems that he's gonna get through. I think Nawin Chidchob and his gang will be big problem in the near future, hope he can manage it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbroker Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Good old dependable Mr Ciaran!When we want an uncouth ignorant input we can always count on you And so what? Yeah, Dude, this is to be expected. In other words, course par. It's all part of the "entertainment"....you didn't think Thailand entertainment was relegated to only the gogo bars, did you? Relax.....just strike back...it's more fun, believe me. Or just ignore. Either way, satisfaction is guaranteed. Then again maybe you know better than everyone! Along with some of the clowns on here who know so little actually. So we ("some of the clowns") all know "so little actually." Again; so what? You don't believe anyone's opinion is changing whether or not you post fact, fiction, quality or ridiculous bias, do you? It's a good way to burn a half hour or so depending on your typing speed. Freedom of speech (within reason here hehe) in action, baby!! Welcome to the circus; enjoy the show. Sad to say you are writing too much rubbish here that it is too painful to try educate you. I doubt anyone's getting educated here. As you've stated, people can access other institutionalized sources and form their own opinions; dopey or otherwise. In here it tends to be virtual Muay Thai. That's its charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 One ring to unite them all, hopes AbhisitPrime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was the ''lord of the ring'' as he pondered the band of gold an elderly Isan woman gave him last year. She told him it was a symbol of fellowship between him and people in all regions of the country. At a televised press conference at Democrat party headquarters last night, Mr Abhisit raised the gold ring he said he had received from 84-year-old grandma Niam during a visit to Ubon Ratchathani province. ''When I was there on an election campaign,'' Mr Abhisit said tearfully, ''... she gave me this ring and said I was now engaged to northeasterners.'' He was recalling the meeting under a tree beside farmland in Muang Samsip district on Aug 8 last year. ''I don't know if grandma Niam is watching. But I'd like to tell her today that the man who received the ring from her will work for her, her relatives, her northeastern people and all her Thai compatriots with fairness, dedication and honesty,'' he said in a clear message to rural people, including those in the Northeast where the Democrats struggle to win votes. ''I do know that one man can neither do everything nor solve every problem. And I know that from now on I will not be able to make everyone love me, agree with me or even support me.'' Sorry for that I "Copy and Paste" It's from Bangkok Post. I read this morning. http://www.bangkokpost.com/181208_News/18Dec2008_news04.php actually, I heard his speech in Thai version Compared with Thaksin, Samak, and Somchai speech... Abhisit is the WINNER. I remember about Thaksin once he talked about provinces which supported him were good, and he would give budget to support them... such a bias speech. Abhisit was my teacher when I was studying communication arts. From what I know he was a nice teacher. So I hope his ideals not change. and hope he can do what he said. It's not perfect time to become Mr.PM for him. Many problems that he's gonna get through. I think Nawin Chidchob and his gang will be big problem in the near future, hope he can manage it. Yes, I think that was a brilliant touch to his speech, the part about the old woman in Isan and the ring. It's just the right type of message needed now for the country. And as you pointed out, exactly the opposite of the divisive message we heard before from another PM. It's very early in the game, but this is a good sign and a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay7 Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 I think Nawin Chidchob and his gang will be big problem in the near future, hope he can manage it. Spot on. But the gang leader's relationship with the old brigade ended long ago. I'm guessing it was always a financial love affair anyhow, and his real interest continues to be with money, not power. Which he'll get in spades with the right post, such as Interior. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Sad to say you are writing too much rubbish here that it is too painful to try educate you. In short if you want to be an ignorant -expletive- then work away! honestly, in the highly unlikely event that i would look to TF for education (about as likely as my cat learning arabic, memorizing the Koran, and reciting it backwards for the entire student body of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (about 20,000 people, and my cat's in Bangkok), you'd be very low on list. what exactly are your credentials, that you appoint yourself an educator? you read an article or two in the Economist? big ******* deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeusbheld Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Then again maybe you know better than everyone! Along with some of the clowns on here who know so little actually. So we ("some of the clowns") all know "so little actually." Again; so what? You don't believe anyone's opinion is changing whether or not you post fact, fiction, quality or ridiculous bias, do you? actually he's done a fine job changing my opinion. had i believed something before he posts it, i'll be much more skeptical and check many more sources after he insists it's true. his track record is that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseasonsman Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 One ring to unite them all, hopes AbhisitPrime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was the ''lord of the ring'' as he pondered the band of gold an elderly Isan woman gave him last year. She told him it was a symbol of fellowship between him and people in all regions of the country. At a televised press conference at Democrat party headquarters last night, Mr Abhisit raised the gold ring he said he had received from 84-year-old grandma Niam during a visit to Ubon Ratchathani province. ''When I was there on an election campaign,'' Mr Abhisit said tearfully, ''... she gave me this ring and said I was now engaged to northeasterners.'' He was recalling the meeting under a tree beside farmland in Muang Samsip district on Aug 8 last year. ''I don't know if grandma Niam is watching. But I'd like to tell her today that the man who received the ring from her will work for her, her relatives, her northeastern people and all her Thai compatriots with fairness, dedication and honesty,'' he said in a clear message to rural people, including those in the Northeast where the Democrats struggle to win votes. ''I do know that one man can neither do everything nor solve every problem. And I know that from now on I will not be able to make everyone love me, agree with me or even support me.'' Sorry for that I "Copy and Paste" It's from Bangkok Post. I read this morning. http://www.bangkokpost.com/181208_News/18Dec2008_news04.php actually, I heard his speech in Thai version Compared with Thaksin, Samak, and Somchai speech... Abhisit is the WINNER. I remember about Thaksin once he talked about provinces which supported him were good, and he would give budget to support them... such a bias speech. Abhisit was my teacher when I was studying communication arts. From what I know he was a nice teacher. So I hope his ideals not change. and hope he can do what he said. It's not perfect time to become Mr.PM for him. Many problems that he's gonna get through. I think Nawin Chidchob and his gang will be big problem in the near future, hope he can manage it. Yes, I think that was a brilliant touch to his speech, the part about the old woman in Isan and the ring. It's just the right type of message needed now for the country. And as you pointed out, exactly the opposite of the divisive message we heard before from another PM. It's very early in the game, but this is a good sign and a good start. Ah yes the spin machine starts! Well no doubt similar things were said about MR T when he was so incredibly popular when he started out as leader/PM of Thailand. He did at least get the job legitimately and was not gifted the job of PM in rather farcical circumstances as is the case with this new guy. He is just a puppet/figurehead and probably has little or no real power/freedom of movement to do much of anything. I also note that already there is a pre-emptive ready made excuse if things go badly [for whatever reason] ------ [?It's not perfect time to become Mr.PM for him. Many problems that he's gonna get through. I think Nawin Chidchob and his gang will be big problem in the near future, hope he can manage it. ?] Yeah handy to have that for the blame game when/if it all goes pear shaped. While as for the comment ?Compared with Thaksin, Samak, and Somchai speech... Abhisit is the WINNER. ? Well yeah you could look at it like that al right and indeed to be fair, given that the guy was educated in a good English University is urban - young and handsome (bright too?) the on the surface I would agree he seems like a far better man than the three named. However that alone does not entitle him to be gifted the job of PM after a judicial coup has been effected by various powerful [behind the scenes] vested interests. A coup which has tainted the reputation of Thailand and brought its democracy backwards by years, or arguably put an end to it's fledgling democracy -for the moment anyway. The problem is that we tend to reap what we sow and so if the foundation is weak, then the risk of a collapse or failure/reversal is greater. In essence I don't believe the means justify the ends. So although I would probably agree that, at least on paper, this guy looks like a great choice for PM. I have a huge problem with the way he was just gifted this job. In principle it is not any less corrupt than anything which has happened by any of the others. As a result the situation overall looks very poor and this looks like cosmetics to me. It hardly seems likely that he will be in any sort of position to deal with the great problems Thailand will now be facing. Having said all that! At least he appears to be reaching out [if it is not all just cosmetics] and may be trying to at try bridge some of the differences. It is just a pity he did not do more of this before, or was not more effective. Given the special [awful] circumstances politically in Thailand there is at least a logic in trying to buy some time and attempt to stabilize things for a while [even by corrupt means] with a view to effect some change that might avoid another impasse for long enough for some business of the nation be able to get done. The whole silent coup stinks of course but just maybe this new PM can rise above the crap and be a PM for all the Thai people and not just those who have gifted him the PM job. To that end this story is oddly enough welcome and hopefully we might see more reaching out and more bridges built between the different sectional interests within Thai society. Failure to do this I fear will indeed lead to serious civil conflict further down the road and it can only be hoped that this is avoided. Then maybe Thailand has some chances for a bright future in the coming years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiaranM Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 As for me being a tourist? You know next to nothing about me! So why oh why you would make silly assumptions instead of dealing with the points made can only mean that when you can't make coherent and logical points you go for distraction and abstraction. Sorry mate but you just don't make sense! from Allseasonsman profile... Location Country Ireland City dublin About Me New to the world of TF and Thailand generally. Had a good experience of Thailand on my first and only ever trip and sort of fell in love with the country. People seems so friendly and warm while the weather and climate are simply great. I look forward to spending some real quality time in Thailand on my next trip. ...tourist u r being far too nice .... jackeen a**hole !! Good old dependable Mr Ciaran! When we want an uncouth ignorant input we can always count on you! As your mother woud have told you You need to wash your mouth with a bar of soap- coz barely a sentence can go by without something foul coming out of it. Try get an education Ciaran and grow up? 555555555555555555555 i'll bet ur mother ..... or her mother was one of the ones hanging out the union jacks in 1916 .... f**king jackeen !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseasonsman Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 honestly, in the highly unlikely event that i would look to TF for education (about as likely as my cat learning arabic, memorizing the Koran, and reciting it backwards for the entire student body of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (about 20,000 people, and my cat's in Bangkok), you'd be very low on list. Beyond being a great man for wise cracks and throw away one liners, you are as likely to write as much rubbish as the next man! And you often do! Though you do often get it right too! However I would not be up to the task of bringing you up to a decent level of education in the area of political science or economics. Your schoolboy smart ass attitude is too much of a hindrance and you are beyond doing any real and substantive research. In any event it would have to be a a smart ass like you to take my comment about educating someone literally as opposed to a figure of speech which underlines a certain disdain for ignorant and uninformed views expressed ? by yes some real clowns on TF. You are very good at distraction and witty comments but you really do need to remind yourself that you are a lightweight. Funny and entertaining to be sure. But you project what you think or want people to have said as opposed to what they actually say/write far too much. As a result you tend towards cheap put downs and empty bluster far too much. It only brings us into this cycle of attack and counter attack which actually does not bring forth any new perspectives or persuasive argument. And that is not because your not capable- because clearly you are often persuasive and logical in your views. However your belligerence lets you down and renders much of what you write as forgettable superficial and frankly not worthy of your ability to transcend the sillyness of TF. what exactly are your credentials, that you appoint yourself an educator? you read an article or two in the Economist? big f*cking deal. A classic emotional outburst! As you have often done, you twist and misrepresent what somebody has actually wrote,and then go on to tell me what I have read and done. I read a couple of articles of the economist then did I? Well as you are such a know it all then, that would seem to be the end of the matter? Wrong! You could have said I have read dozens of articles from the economist and you would still have been far out! The astute observer will have noted that I gave you several links and mentioned that there were many many other sources from which to have gain information that would provide insightful and diverse range of views. Many of these expert views will generally have some broad consensus or areas of agreement. The experts I refer to are the students and graduates, professors in the relevant fields, such as economics, political science etc etc. It had not occurred to some of the clowns on this site that somebody in Dublin could be in daily contact with dozens of such people from within Thailand and all over the world on a regular basis! Thailand has Universities with many well informed and learned students and academics. Then there is the fact that someone [some of the clowns some live there and think they know it all- most people who live there are of course not clowns- just some who feel free to make an issue of someone not living there, and making all manner of stupid ignorant assumption as result] could not conceive or consider that somebody in Dublin could not have family living in Thailand [like a brother married to a Thai lady! - Now why would I have that on my profile!] and as a result have an emotional attachment to the country to such an extent that one would be open to many perspectives and updates about many aspects of Thailand and it's political developments. However when all is said and done Vbroker is actually quite correct and very perceptive! Why do any ODF take any of this so seriously. I have no problem with argument [best way to learn often] or people not agreeing. However when the arguments are so weak and there is such little good argument made, why wouldn't anyway get fed up with such lame efforts. I could easily have put forward plenty of arguments against many of the points of view I have expressed but I was rather hoping to see them coming from some here on TF. That didn't happen and so Vbroker is spot on when he has a go at me! He done so by at least putting things in perspective. Is it really so hard for people to passionately disagree and not take it so personally. If someone writes rubbish then can people not say I think this for reason a-b-c etc etc etc without misrepresenting what some wrote or what their meaning was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 As for me being a tourist? You know next to nothing about me! So why oh why you would make silly assumptions instead of dealing with the points made can only mean that when you can't make coherent and logical points you go for distraction and abstraction. Sorry mate but you just don't make sense! from Allseasonsman profile... Location Country Ireland City dublin About Me New to the world of TF and Thailand generally. Had a good experience of Thailand on my first and only ever trip and sort of fell in love with the country. People seems so friendly and warm while the weather and climate are simply great. I look forward to spending some real quality time in Thailand on my next trip. ...tourist Well once again you show your true colors! Having lost the argument and failed to make any really worthwhile posts you then try to attack the poster and not the content of the post! As I said before. You presume far too much and make ignorant assumptions as a result. The profile is out of date and has not been updated for quite some time indeed. The tactic you use o this thread does indeed say a lot more about you and not me. Again, insults with no information. As you can see from the fact that almost nobody agrees with you, I haven't lost any argument. You said calling you a tourist doesn't make sense, so I quoted your profile where you describe yourself as a tourist. This thread has devolved into childish mud slinging with no entertainment value. before moving on I will make one final point. And yes it is based on fact, and contains no personal insults... Over the last 10 years or so there have been dozens of newspaper, magazine and online articles, and news items about me and my work. CNN, LA Times, GQ, Popular Mechanics, Wired, and many more, even The Economist recently asked for an interview. Usually it's a miracle if the story is mostly true, often it's completeley misleading, occasionaly so bad that we've had to ask them to print retractions. This is not because they are stupid, or because they have an opposing ideology, it's just normal journalism. I'd say nearly a third of the journalists I've dealt with didn't do any research at all and just relied on their notes from the interview. There is no army of experts determining some kind of authoritative objective concensus. There is only fallible, busy, partly informed individuals banging out stories to meet their deadline. Any further attempts to use such material, especially if written by westerners with no experience of Thailand (tourism doesn't count), will be duly ignored. Next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 While as for the comment ?Compared with Thaksin, Samak, and Somchai speech... Abhisit is the WINNER. ? Well yeah you could look at it like that al right and indeed to be fair, given that the guy was educated in a good English University is urban - young and handsome (bright too?) the on the surface I would agree he seems like a far better man than the three named. Well, my post is about the speech... you said like 3 names they are uneducated poor men. Come on Thaksin got "Ph.D' and he was Bush's classmate. Khun allseasonman, The reason that I raised Abhisit's speech was important. To be a leader, more than "Education" "Conscience" "Morality" "Humanity" High-mind" "Courage" one important thing is the word from the mouth. Words can give "Lifes" Words can take "Lifes" Words can make people kill each others Words can make people come together Words can make miracle happen. So for the leaders they should speak carefully, every words they say effects the world. But from what I have seen Dr.T have no "penance" for Samak I gave him -100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseasonsman Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Good old dependable Mr Ciaran! When we want an uncouth ignorant input we can always count on you! As your mother would have told you You need to wash your mouth with a bar of soap- coz barely a sentence can go by without something foul coming out of it. Try get an education Ciaran and grow up? 555555555555555555555 i'll bet ur mother ..... or her mother was one of the ones hanging out the union jacks in 1916 .... f**king jackeen !!!! Still good old dependable Mr Ciaran! When we want an uncouth ignorant input we can always count on you! As your mother would have told you You need to wash your mouth with a bar of soap- coz barely a sentence can go by without something foul coming out of it. Try get an education Ciaran and grow up? In fairness Ciaran you do give me a laugh sometimes and even surprise me with what you come out with. I mean what are you trying to imply with the Union Jack comment? I found that very amusing , confusing all in one. Somehow the idea of my mother -or surely you mean grandmother, hanging out a Union Jack in 1916 seems hilarious. Like what could I possibly have wrote to make you have any notion of me not being every bit as Irish [technically more so, seen as I am from the republic and have never lived under British rule] as you. I mean do you actually travel under an Irish passport ? I always have and have always been happy to do so [had no other choice anyway] What I won't say is that I am anti British [as you seem to be on some levels?] for I am not! 1916 has always been a great moment in Irish history for me- notwithstanding the various subsequent revisionist views which have tried to denounce the actions taken by Pearse and the other heroes ? and which through it's ideals was the spark of national liberation from an imperial power which had overstayed by hundreds of years. The Republic has matured and outgrown [in economic and social terms] our powerful neighbour but we have no need to gloat. They are still good neighbours, and in the main, now our friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allseasonsman Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 As for me being a tourist? You know next to nothing about me! So why oh why you would make silly assumptions instead of dealing with the points made can only mean that when you can't make coherent and logical points you go for distraction and abstraction. Sorry mate but you just don't make sense! from Allseasonsman profile... Location Country Ireland City dublin About Me New to the world of TF and Thailand generally. Had a good experience of Thailand on my first and only ever trip and sort of fell in love with the country. People seems so friendly and warm while the weather and climate are simply great. I look forward to spending some real quality time in Thailand on my next trip. ...tourist Well once again you show your true colors! Having lost the argument and failed to make any really worthwhile posts you then try to attack the poster and not the content of the post! As I said before. You presume far too much and make ignorant assumptions as a result. The profile is out of date and has not been updated for quite some time indeed. The tactic you use o this thread does indeed say a lot more about you and not me. Again, insults with no information. As you can see from the fact that almost nobody agrees with you, I haven't lost any argument. You said calling you a tourist doesn't make sense, so I quoted your profile where you describe yourself as a tourist. This thread has devolved into childish mud slinging with no entertainment value. before moving on I will make one final point. And yes it is based on fact, and contains no personal insults... Over the last 10 years or so there have been dozens of newspaper, magazine and online articles, and news items about me and my work. CNN, LA Times, GQ, Popular Mechanics, Wired, and many more, even The Economist recently asked for an interview. Usually it's a miracle if the story is mostly true, often it's completeley misleading, occasionaly so bad that we've had to ask them to print retractions. This is not because they are stupid, or because they have an opposing ideology, it's just normal journalism. I'd say nearly a third of the journalists I've dealt with didn't do any research at all and just relied on their notes from the interview. There is no army of experts determining some kind of authoritative objective concensus. There is only fallible, busy, partly informed individuals banging out stories to meet their deadline. Any further attempts to use such material, especially if written by westerners with no experience of Thailand (tourism doesn't count), will be duly ignored. Next! Having lost the argument and failed to make any really worthwhile posts you then try to attack the poster and not the content of the post! As I said before. You presume far too much and make ignorant assumptions as a result. The profile is out of date and has not been updated for quite some time indeed. The tactic you use o this thread does indeed say a lot more about you and not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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