errors From today's Wall Street Journal Asia

[Neo]

Thanks Prue for posting the article (see Prue's journal for the context)

Mr. Abhisit's government has come to power by riding the dangerous wave of antidemocratic protest that brought the country to a standstill earlier this month. The previous government, loyal to former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, was ousted by a combination of violent street protesters, with whom the military and police were largely complicit, and an activist judiciary operating under laws written by the military leaders who ruled from 2006-2007.

"loyal to Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra" hmmm perhaps more balanced to say "under the patronage of convicted criminal and ex-Prime Minister..."

The PAD were not 100% non-violent, certainly but describing them as violent protesters without mentioning the bombs that the "pro-democratic" mob was throwing at them is a little biased.

"written by the military leaders who ruled from 2006-2007"

ahem.. excuse me but the "military leaders" made a huge point of not being in government, and even showed frustration that the interim government wasn't making the best of the opportunity.

Mr. Abhisit's party has done what some describe as a "deal with the devil," luring away pro-Thaksin MPs by offering them important cabinet portfolios and undermining the Democrats' ability to steer policy.

At this point the article loses all credibility. So Abhisit who apparently offered nothing but the opportunity to join his coallition is the one doing the luring while no mention is made of the 50 million baht bribes that khun Thaksin was luring people with.

On top of that, the coalition has a slender parliamentary majority -- Mr. Abhisit was elected by a margin of 237-198

Now the article marches off into the ridiculous. A slender parliamentary majority? Hardly! Wanna see slender? check this out.. the PPP won the election by about 200,000 votes.. that's less than 1%, and how much of the 1% was paid votes?

I might not be an expert, but I can smell poos when it's flung about.

[grezzzy_greer]

Glad to see you picked this up Neo.

I am getting ever more pissed off by what is increasingly looking like totally biased criminal supporting prol-Taksin reporting coming from the media all over the world.

The problem is that we have all this utter bullshit being peddled by media who, if this is an example of their reporting accuracy, have no idea at all about anything that has happened.

The sad (or actually acutely frustrating) part is that there are people around the world reading and believing this garbage. They now think that Taksin was the poor hard-done-by underdog rather than the truth of it, which was that at best he was a dictator in the making, and at worst, I shudder to think.

Are these people really reporting from within Thailand, do theyknow anything at all about the sentiments of the real people? No - or if they do, they don't care.

The facts, as interesting as they may be, are completely irrelevant!

The ones doing a deal with the devil are the media who consistently toe the line of the pro-Taksin camp and follow him around like the gutter dogs they are.

[Chatty]

Thks Neo... I have seen her journal but I'm not sure I was blocked or she doesn't like anyone to posted any comments there...

Actually, I have seen another one.... but I'm not sure I should post it here. hrrr...

Thaksin's lobbyist work so hard na...

[babyoiy]

Bastard.

[sunsnow]

On top of that, the coalition has a slender parliamentary majority -- Mr. Abhisit was elected by a margin of 237-198

Now the article marches off into the ridiculous. A slender parliamentary majority? Hardly! Wanna see slender? check this out.. the PPP won the election by about 200,000 votes.. that's less than 1%, and how much of the 1% was paid votes?

LOL...

To read more about that "200 000 votes", go read:

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/12/democrats-have-no-mandate.html

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/12/responding-to-klein.html

[LakeGeneve]

On top of that, the coalition has a slender parliamentary majority -- Mr. Abhisit was elected by a margin of 237-198

Now the article marches off into the ridiculous. A slender parliamentary majority? Hardly! Wanna see slender? check this out.. the PPP won the election by about 200,000 votes.. that's less than 1%, and how much of the 1% was paid votes?

LOL...

To read more about that "200 000 votes", go read:

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/12/democrats-have-no-mandate.html

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/12/responding-to-klein.html

Can someone explain the figures listed in the Constituency Vote table as it totals more (72m) than the total pop. of Thailand (63-64m),let alone the actual number of registered voters or even the fact that turnout is much lower than the number of reg voters! (I seem recollect about 67% for the last general election but would have to check)

Am I reading the table incorrectly? I am very confused and will have to dig up the figures.

The Party list table seems to be a more accurate reflection of the number of voters for last years election.

[allseasonsman]

Errors?

Overall it seems to describe the situation very well indeed! And in case you think or are suggesting that this is an isolated view? Well I think you will find that most informed western perspectives will be along the lines of the following:

============================================

An end to Thai democracy?

By Gwynne Dyer on Wed, 17 Dec 2008

The political crisis in Thailand is over, and so is the 10-year experiment with democracy.

The rich and the comfortably off have risen in outraged revolt against equal treatment for the poor, and it's back to the bad old days of shaky coalitions and bought-and-paid-for politicians.

The misleadingly named People's Alliance for Democracy (Pad) has won.

It was the Pad's yellow-clad protesters and street-fighters who occupied Government offices, and eventually both of Bangkok's airports, in a non-stop campaign to oust the People Power Party (PPP) from power. (The yellow was to signify their allegiance to the revered 81-year-old king of Thailand, Bhumibol Adulyadej, although it was never clear if he shared their goal.)

The Government had to be overthrown by street demonstrations, not by a legitimate vote in Parliament, because the PPP actually had a majority in Parliament.

The PPP's crime, in the view of the Pad, the army, the police, the Bangkok middle class, and perhaps even the royal palace, was that the wrong people had voted for it: the rural poor.

The PPP was the descendant of Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thais), the creation of Thaksin Shinawatra, the telecommunications billionaire who turned to politics in 1998.

It was a new style of party for Thailand, appealing directly to the urban poor and the rural majority of Thai voters over the heads of the political bosses who had traditionally bought up their votes.

Thai Rak Thai won the 2001 election, delivering Mr Thaksin to the prime minister's office, and he actually kept many of his promises.

Development funds flowed into the rural areas, his "30-baht" scheme for universal health care brought medical aid to remote villages for the first time, and farmers got cheap loans.

It alienated the urban elite who had previously got the biggest share of State spending, but Mr Thaksin's popularity soared even higher in rural areas.

He was the first prime minister ever to complete a four-year term, and in the 2005 election his party won an absolute majority of the seats in Parliament - another first.

Even more importantly, the political godfathers who used to buy and sell the rural vote flocked to his banner, giving him a virtually impregnable political position.

For a moment there, it looked as though Mr Thaksin had succeeded in transforming Thai politics.

He was quite autocratic in power, seeking to punish media outlets that criticised him and authorising an anti-drugs campaign that resulted in many illegal killings, but his popularity was unquestionable.

And then it all fell apart.

The counter-attack by the old guard came in the form of street demonstrations against Mr Thaksin's new government that were used as the excuse for a military coup in 2006.

The courts, which have not been exactly impartial in this affair, then ordered Thai Rak Thai disbanded because of alleged election irregularities (doubtless true, but equally true for all the other parties).

Mr Thaksin's party was immediately re-founded as the PPP, but he was not so easily able to evade a court judgement finding him guilty of conflict of interest over the purchase of land in Bangkok.

The amount of money involved was paltry for a man of Mr Thaksin's wealth, and other Thai politicians have gone unpunished for far graver offences, but he ended up fleeing from Thailand in order to avoid a jail sentence.

The military then reckoned that it was safe to hold another election, but Mr Thaksin's renamed PPP won again last year: the poor knew who was on their side.

Mr Thaksin stayed in exile, but his close ally, Samak Sundaravej, became prime minister in his stead - and immediately faced the same legal vendetta.

Early this year, the courts got him for conflict of interest.

The charge? He was moonlighting as the host of a television cooking show.

In this struggle, no pretext is too petty.

Mr Samak was replaced as prime minister in late September by Mr Thaksin's brother-in-law, Somchai Wongsawat.

The Pad then launched non-stop demonstrations that gradually paralysed the Government.

Three weeks ago it seized control of both Bangkok's airports, shutting down the tourist trade that accounts for 6% of Thailand's economy.

And, last week, the courts came through for it again, ordering the disbanding of the PPP and two allied parties for electoral fraud.

That was the final blow.

The regional godfathers, recognising that Mr Thaksin is finished, have begun selling their services to the old-line Democratic Party again.

It won't even be necessary to carry out the Pad's project to take the vote away from the rural population - it was proposing a Parliament that was 70% appointed and only 30% elected - because the regional bosses will go back to brokering the rural vote in the good old-fashioned way.

It is a sad outcome, but not a surprising one.

Relatively few Asian countries are openly run as dictatorships nowadays - China, Vietnam and Burma are the main exceptions - but the urban elites and the big landowners really still call the tune in most of the so-called democracies.

Mr Thaksin had his faults, but he was trying to break Thailand free from that model.

Unfortunately, he failed.

[allseasonsman]

As for my own little opinion? Well I have wrote elsewhere the following:

===========================================

One could argue that the political crisis is not over because the people who have been disenfranchised by this judicial coup - a coup by stealth and back room deals- are not going to take this lying down maybe?

Perhaps we will see even greater civil unrest now in the not so distant future? However as the article points out, the army and powerful elites have got their way and they in effect now control the country. The experiment with democracy is indeed over.

We now can see a junta with a puppet figure head and the pretense of politics and democracy. After the coup in 2006 and then this second 2008 coup in as many years Thailand is now officially a joke state in which the puppet masters pull all the strings.

The sad part is that this backward step will serve Thailand very poorly indeed. The risk is that the country will split even further and that following the death of the King [which could happen at any time] the country will slide into free fall chaos as the huge inequalities and contradictions of the society become ever more apparent and egregious.

It might take 1-2 years or 10 years but at some stage this country will explode into civil conflict and violence. The it will just become and open Junta. Had there been no coup in 20006 then Mr T would indeed have been got rid of in time anyway. Democracy would have been seen to work and the project to keep Thailand on a stable road towards becoming a mature democracy would have kept on evolving and moving forwards.

Imperfect and very frustrating it would have been for sure but it could have worked out in the long run. To those you say Thailand is special and is not ready for Democracy? Well it may be poorly placed for it to flourish but with time it could and would have worked here no less well than Japan- South Korea and Taiwan etc etc. All far more advanced and richer countries. Thailand could have aimed for such a situation in due course had it stayed on the road to being a mature Democracy. That is all gone now as it has just reverted to a previous state of being from it's murky past.

The consequence is that we may see some short term stability but Thailand and its government will not be taken too seriously by the richer countries. They will be seen as only a few steps above the likes of Burma and there will be a sort of nudge and a wink from the western governments- who as always ultimately don't give a crap about the well being of the likes of the people of Thailand. Just so long as there is the pretense of Thailand being a democracy and they can still do business with some degree of security or consistency then they will turn a blind eye to what will without doubt be seen as a coup [by stealth] by the foreign affairs departments of the western countries.

It will fade from the news in the west and just be regarded as another mickey mouse country along the lines of Juntas in Central/South America in the 70s.

In short it is a case of : BACK TO THE PAST for Thailand.

The good news is that little will change much for the Farangs who visit or live there. However the tensions within the society and the damage already done by the mad PAD with the Airports stunts will take a while to be forgotten. Tourism will suffer for a few years now- just not sure to what extent.

[allseasonsman]

Thaksin's lobbyist work so hard na...

That would be anyone who disagrees with you about Thai Politics then!

This must mean that the vast majority of the western media is "PRO Thaksin"

I wonder why? Oh it might have something to do with seeing the PAD in action and we in the west know a thing or two about mature adult politics. After all we have been playing around with democratic politics for hundreds and even thousands of years!

We have made as many mistakes as your mind could imagine but we somehow manage to make it work to some extent and tend to be able to see things more or less as they are. You can enjoy your puppet government and the junta behind it, but as they say be very careful what you wish for- You just might get it! Well now you have got it! Lets see how long you like it!

Democracy is a pretty awful system of government alright but it is still the LEAST WORSE of all the alternatives. When you have tried out some of these alternatives you will understand this alot better my dear.

[Chatty]

allseasonman, hrrrrrrr.... can you go back to read p'grezzzy_greer's comment?

Do you know lobbyist Barbour Griffith & Rogers and Edelman (PR)

[allseasonsman]

allseasonman, hrrrrrrr.... can you go back to read p'grezzzy_greer's comment?

Do you know lobbyist Barbour Griffith & Rogers and Edelman (PR)

grezzzy_greer's comment's?

His are are even dumber than yours!

No I have no idea about lobbyist Barbour Griffith & Rogers and Edelman (PR) and I have even less interest in them now!

Your contention is always the same:

Thaskin this or Thaskin that- he is bad evil man etc etc etc

It is tiresome and irrelevant to why I and so many others would be able to see the mad PAD for what they are and see what has happened to Thailand.

All that has happened is that he has begun to look better and better with almost every development! And you my dear and people like you are largely to blame for this!What a twist that is indeed.

The best PR Thaskin could ever have got is from the likes of people like you who with every utterance only confirm what so many people suspect.

So bad has been your ideas [what few there are] and notions, that you never have any actual policy ideas or solutions that would improve Thailand and especially the poor. People like you actually don't give a crap about the poor because you are so far removed from that world.

You know and understand so little about politics that all you ever seem to do is convince people of how bad things are. I mean if people like you are so deluded and politically backward or illiterate then what hope is there for Thailand? You are not a stupid woman yet you persist with some really stupid ideas. You can not see the wood from the trees and blind yourself with emotional and irrational notions. If only you could learn to think for yourself and asses politics with a view to seeing the big picture? Observe trends and patterns and assess motives and vested interests etc etc

According to you, and the basic thrust of all your comments, all those who assess the situation in Thailand in cold factual terms are wrong and you are right. [it is still possible] The likelihood of you being right or ever understanding the politics of your country well are slim indeed, You are not alone in this regard. However in the real world of grown up politics, much of what has taken place in Thailand is quite transparent to a western eye.

Still the likes of, The Wall Street Journal - Time Magazine -The Economist- The vast majority of political commentators in the western world could all be wrong! Certainly there are many different perspectives out there, but none that would support just about any of the mad PAD views or objectives and those who blindly and slavishly support the mad PAD have only managed to convince people like me and many others of the sheer backwardness of Thai politics as it is now.

I have after all no reason to choose one set of view over another except for the merits of the arguments put forward. So far people like you have only made me think that Thaskin may have been not nearly as bad as you always say he is! Well done on that amazing result.

Previously I would have been a major critic of MR T but after the 2006 coup and around the time before when he was being attacked in a nasty and very hateful way while also being vilified by vested interests I began to sense something rotten was taking place and that politics itself were being undermined.

Sure we could argue about how bad he was and be critical of him and his policies but there are lines that you don't cross over. For if you do, then you risk much more than the target. In this case Thaskin was got rid of at such a heavy price [the manner of his removal and subsequent vilification being far worse than him] to the country.

If it is true what you say about MR T then I say to you he was not worth the mess created subsequently by creating political chaos. However if we really want to be honest and open about the situation in Thailand then arguably the words of one Thai speak volumes about Thailand and the mess it is in now. You need to look in the mirror too now.

THE MIRROR HAS 60 MILLION FACES

VORANAI VANIJAKA

One night in October 1973, my mother (who was 8 months pregnant with me at the time) was sitting at home, worrying and crying. My father, an officer in the riot prevention unit, was trapped in a police station surrounded by left-wing militants.

He was cradling in his arms one of his subordinates, who had been shot in the guts. He was bleeding profusely.

There were between 15 to 20 policemen trapped in the station, surrounded by hundreds of the opposition. The situation was hopeless. Snipers were everywhere. The policeman who was shot eventually died from blood loss.

Late in the night, my father ordered his subordinates to strip off their uniforms and put on civilian clothes. Under the cover of darkness, they escaped from the police station.

A few hours later, my father made it back home to my mother.

Thinking of all the coups, the protests and the bloodshed that Thailand has been through, I wonder: What have we been fighting for? What have we achieved?

The majority still live in poverty. Our children still beg in the streets. Not just politics, but our society as a whole is still corrupt. And we still have no clue what democracy is.

Coups, protests and conflicts are nothing more than the squabbling between rich and powerful men, whose fiery rhetoric, fancy tactics and deep pockets are able to rouse the people to flock to their banners.

I am no fan of prime minister Samak Sundaravej, nor am I a fan of the five leaders of the PAD. However, I am a fan of everyone who wakes up in the morning, goes to work, provides for his or her family, lends a helping hand to the less fortunate and lives an honest life, regardless of the colour of their shirts.

Getting rid of Prime Minister Samak and dissolving the parliament would make a lot of people happy, it would make me happy. But then what?

Would there be less corruption? Less social injustice? Less income disparity? Would it better the lives of the people?

We want to get rid of him because he is corrupt. But is he any more corrupt than the average Thai person? How many among us never cut corners, go under the table, use connections, or hand over a hundred baht bill?

We want to get rid of him because we don't want Thaksin-style mega projects. But then - look at our media, look at our society - why are we so obsessed with materialism and superficiality?

We don't want him to change the constitution to serve his (or his boss's) agenda. But then why do we the people each and every day bend the rules and manipulate the laws to serve our own agenda?

If we want to change Thailand for the better, getting rid of a few individuals won't do it. The change starts with us.

We march to get rid of one man, but do we march to save the lives of our children begging in the streets?

We march to get rid of one man, but do we march to save the lives of our brothers and sisters in the three southernmost provinces?

We march to get rid of one man, but did we march when Thaksin mandated the murder of innocent men and women on the streets?

If we want to change Thailand for the better, getting rid of a few individuals won't do it. The change starts with us.

The PAD has the right to protest, and Samak has the prerogative say he was democratically and overwhelmingly elected.

We can say the election was bought, but which election wasn't? Buying an election is just a matter of supply and demand, it can't be bought if the people aren't willing to sell it. And the people is us, the Thai people. It is us who sell our freedom, our democracy.

If Samak resigns, there are thousands and thousands more Samaks ready to replace him. The idea and being of the likes of Thaksin or Samak is like the proverb "fish in the water and the rice in the field".

Yes, like fish and rice, there are an abundance of Thaksins and Samaks in Thailand, in all level of society, from the poor to the rich.

The jealousy, the factionalism, the close-mindedness, the hate, the cronyism, the corruption, the politicking, the manipulation, the exploitation, the selfishness and self-righteousness, the refusal to change for the better - the things that we see play out in the political landscape, that we the people never cease to complain about in disgust - are we also guilty of the same in our families, in our social circles, in our schools, in our work places?

Samak is merely a reflection of our society, a mirror of who we are - the writer of this column not excepted.

Finding scapegoats and blaming others is easy. The rich blame the poor, the poor blame the rich. Failing that, we blame karma or black magic - and of course, we blame foreigners.

Yes, we should take to the streets against corrupt politicians, but not much good can come of it if we simply huff and puff every few years and then go back to our daily corruption, apathy and superficialism.

The fact is: Each and every one of us is responsible and accountable for our country, our society and the future of our children.

Whatever that is wrong with Thai politics and society, we 60 million plus people all have a hand in it - we are responsible for it.

We make Thailand. Not just Thaksin. Not just Samak. But all 60 million plus of us.

Samak is not worth one act of violence, not worth one drop of blood, not worth a single tear. He is not even worth the insults and hates the PAD throw at him each and every day.

Take to the streets and protest for the right reason: march not because we hate Samak, rather march because we love Thailand.

What we do in life each and every day, individually and collectively, is what will change our country, for better or for worse.

We should continue to fight corrupt politicians. But if we truly want better things for Thailand, the change starts with us, the Thai people.

[allseasonsman]

Glad to see you picked this up Neo.

I am getting ever more pissed off by what is increasingly looking like totally biased criminal supporting prol-Taksin reporting coming from the media all over the world.

The problem is that we have all this utter bullshit being peddled by media who, if this is an example of their reporting accuracy, have no idea at all about anything that has happened.

The sad (or actually acutely frustrating) part is that there are people around the world reading and believing this garbage. They now think that Taksin was the poor hard-done-by underdog rather than the truth of it, which was that at best he was a dictator in the making, and at worst, I shudder to think.

Are these people really reporting from within Thailand, do theyknow anything at all about the sentiments of the real people? No - or if they do, they don't care.

The facts, as interesting as they may be, are completely irrelevant!

The ones doing a deal with the devil are the media who consistently toe the line of the pro-Taksin camp and follow him around like t

he gutter dogs they are.

Your comments are so wrong as to be best consigned to the realm of utter fantasy and fabrication.

To give just one example "They now think that Taksin was the poor hard-done-by underdog rather than the truth of it"

I can see no example of anything of the sort. No matter how many people do not say they support Thaskin or some of his policies people like you just keep on with the same ignorant mantra of Thaskin this or Thaskin that.

He has not ruled the country for more than 2 years and the western media has not been kind to him at all! Yet you invent the fantasy that the western media support him? Im afraid there is no reasoning with people like you.

[Neo]

blah blah blah...

No matter how many people do not say they support Thaskin or some of his policies people like you just keep on with the same ignorant mantra of Thaskin this or Thaskin that.

He has not ruled the country for more than 2 years and the western media has not been kind to him at all! Yet you invent the fantasy that the western media support him? Im afraid there is no reasoning with people like you.

Huh? not ruled the country for more than 2 years? You're quoting more clueless western press to substantiate the claims of clueless western press? Hellooo! That's our point.. these people have no idea what's really going on here. If you lived here and knew a good number of Thai people you'd know what a load of bs they're peddling. Add a blind faith in anything maquerading as democracy with a willingness to believe Thaksin's stories, and add a dash TKNS and you have the perfect formula for dumb-ass western media embaressment.

[condotown]

Errors?

(SUMMARY) >>>> PRO TAKSIN WIND-UP POST

Dude!!! Why don't you give it a rest?

I stand by my claim that you are either on Thaksin's payroll or you are his gay lover.

All the politicians (yellow, red and the rest of the spectrum of colors) are totally corrupt and the masses here are indifferent.

Not much different from most "democracies"

The only difference from most of the West is that the general population here is poorer and less educated.

[Neo]

No I have no idea about lobbyist Barbour Griffith & Rogers and Edelman (PR) and I have even less interest in them now!

Your contention is always the same:

Thaskin this or Thaskin that- he is bad evil man etc etc etc

So you have no idea.. you clearly don't know about the tens of billions of baht that Thaksin stole from the Thai people, and you have never lived in Thailand. Dude! You're a tourist! Come back and go to the beach, get laid, go to temples. But don't open your mouth about politics here until you've learnt what Thai people really think, and what's really going on here. Here's a clue for you.. you won't find the truth about Thailand in the western media, no matter how much misinformed garbage you read. And please stop quoting it here.. it's just embarassing to see tourists pretend to know all about Thailand.

[allseasonsman]

Errors?

(SUMMARY) >>>> PRO TAKSIN WIND-UP POST

Dude!!! Why don't you give it a rest?

I stand by my claim that you are either on Thaksin's payroll or you are his gay lover.

All the politicians (yellow, red and the rest of the spectrum of colors) are totally corrupt and the masses here are indifferent.

Not much different from most "democracies"

The only difference from most of the West is that the general population here is poorer and less educated.

Dude!! Why don't you try to say something.anything intelligent?

I am on the payroll of MR T- of course I am! Coz you said it - so it must be true! I can't be his gay lover though coz I am not gay! Unless you know something worthwhile I don't know [ a very long shot]

The funny thing is that you can not make the connection that in all those western countries the population is not poor like in Thailand partly because they have working democracies that function well enough to insure some stability,security and prosperity and even equality.

Of course these things are always relative but the point is that if Thailand ever wants to be as well off as Japan, South Korea, Tawain etc etc then they should realize that they have gone off the rails and are not on the path to mature democracy and that path is the best chance they have to become a first world nation. The way it is heading things have gone backwards.

The difference with me and you is that I would like to see Thailand on the right path and do well, whereas you have such little faith in the Thai people that you really could not give a crap and would even prefer to see the country stay backward.

Go back to the back of the class.

[allseasonsman]

blah blah blah...

No matter how many people do not say they support Thaskin or some of his policies people like you just keep on with the same ignorant mantra of Thaskin this or Thaskin that.

He has not ruled the country for more than 2 years and the western media has not been kind to him at all! Yet you invent the fantasy that the western media support him? Im afraid there is no reasoning with people like you.

Huh? not ruled the country for more than 2 years? You're quoting more clueless western press to substantiate the claims of clueless western press? Hellooo! That's our point.. these people have no idea what's really going on here. If you lived here and knew a good number of Thai people you'd know what a load of bs they're peddling. Add a blind faith in anything maquerading as democracy with a willingness to believe Thaksin's stories, and add a dash TKNS and you have the perfect formula for dumb-a*s western media embaressment.

Well I can only guess you are either doing a lot of drugs or are so profoundly stupid as to be quite hilarious. Eh Mr T was ousted in a coup in 2006! HELLO!

Again we see the "you don't live here school of thought- and I looked at your profile and I made all sorts of assumptions" from a profile not updated for many months!

You assume and presume way too much and anyway this distraction tactic avoids the fact that you are writing uninformed rubbish as opposed to any informed or intelligent comment.

The only embarrassment is people like you who are ignorant and arrogant as can be. But you have every right to make a fool of yourself.

[Neo]

blah blah blah...

No matter how many people do not say they support Thaskin or some of his policies people like you just keep on with the same ignorant mantra of Thaskin this or Thaskin that.

He has not ruled the country for more than 2 years and the western media has not been kind to him at all! Yet you invent the fantasy that the western media support him? Im afraid there is no reasoning with people like you.

Huh? not ruled the country for more than 2 years? You're quoting more clueless western press to substantiate the claims of clueless western press? Hellooo! That's our point.. these people have no idea what's really going on here. If you lived here and knew a good number of Thai people you'd know what a load of bs they're peddling. Add a blind faith in anything maquerading as democracy with a willingness to believe Thaksin's stories, and add a dash TKNS and you have the perfect formula for dumb-a*s western media embaressment.

Well I can only guess you are either doing a lot of drugs or are so profoundly stupid as to be quite hilarious. Eh Mr T was ousted in a coup in 2006! HELLO!

Again we see the "you don't live here school of thought- and I looked at your profile and I made all sorts of assumptions" from a profile not updated for many months!

You assume and presume way too much and anyway this distraction tactic avoids the fact that you are writing uninformed rubbish as opposed to any informed or intelligent comment.

The only embarrassment is people like you who are ignorant and arrogant as can be. But you have every right to make a fool of yourself.

Erm.. have you any idea what "Mr T" was doing when the coup occurred? Apparently not. If you think it had anything to do with democracy then you really have a lot to learn. He was in power for 2 years? Come on.. use a little bit of fact. Now your arguement has turned into baseless insults. Sad. Never mind, you've shown everyone your true colours.

[allseasonsman]

blah blah blah...

No matter how many people do not say they support Thaskin or some of his policies people like you just keep on with the same ignorant mantra of Thaskin this or Thaskin that.

He has not ruled the country for more than 2 years and the western media has not been kind to him at all! Yet you invent the fantasy that the western media support him? Im afraid there is no reasoning with people like you.

Huh? not ruled the country for more than 2 years? You're quoting more clueless western press to substantiate the claims of clueless western press? Hellooo! That's our point.. these people have no idea what's really going on here. If you lived here and knew a good number of Thai people you'd know what a load of bs they're peddling. Add a blind faith in anything maquerading as democracy with a willingness to believe Thaksin's stories, and add a dash TKNS and you have the perfect formula for dumb-a*s western media embaressment.

Well I can only guess you are either doing a lot of drugs or are so profoundly stupid as to be quite hilarious. Eh Mr T was ousted in a coup in 2006! HELLO!

Again we see the "you don't live here school of thought- and I looked at your profile and I made all sorts of assumptions" from a profile not updated for many months!

You assume and presume way too much and anyway this distraction tactic avoids the fact that you are writing uninformed rubbish as opposed to any informed or intelligent comment.

The only embarrassment is people like you who are ignorant and arrogant as can be. But you have every right to make a fool of yourself.

Erm.. have you any idea what "Mr T" was doing when the coup occurred? Apparently not. If you think it had anything to do with democracy then you really have a lot to learn. He was in power for 2 years? Come on.. use a little bit of fact. Now your arguement has turned into baseless insults. .

Your making even less sense now and writing in riddles! As a matter of documented fact MR T was indeed ousted [illegally] in a coup in 2006.

So as it is now 2008 and he has not been PM since then [2006] we can see that this means indeed he has not been in power for 2 years! Even though I am bad at maths I can still do the sum here on that one.

When you write

"He was in power for 2 years?" you only seem more confused than ever!

As for the baseless insults? No they are unfortunate I agree and I prefer not to waste your time or mine, or such a waste of out efforts but they are not baseless.

You wrote stuff that makes little sense and insult others with vulgar comments and accusations so it can lead people to respond with clarifications and refutations.

I honestly dont know if you are doing drugs or are a bit stupid when it comes to politics but essentially you would have people believe that you know better than an army of experts who make it their business to inform themselves about events taking place in Thailand. You dismiss the likes of the wall street journal with no clear argument or points.

If we both just kept to making points without wasting time making comments about each others motives or information sources then at least we might find some common ground and then compare our alternative perspectives.

Honestly though you just seem like someone who is really far out there!

Like a conspiracy nut? I mean thats just my impression- like to dismiss the whole western media they way you have done just makes no sense. I have my own problems with the western media but come on -your suggestion is a bit crazy?

[Neo]

blah blah blah...

No matter how many people do not say they support Thaskin or some of his policies people like you just keep on with the same ignorant mantra of Thaskin this or Thaskin that.

He has not ruled the country for more than 2 years and the western media has not been kind to him at all! Yet you invent the fantasy that the western media support him? Im afraid there is no reasoning with people like you.

Huh? not ruled the country for more than 2 years? You're quoting more clueless western press to substantiate the claims of clueless western press? Hellooo! That's our point.. these people have no idea what's really going on here. If you lived here and knew a good number of Thai people you'd know what a load of bs they're peddling. Add a blind faith in anything maquerading as democracy with a willingness to believe Thaksin's stories, and add a dash TKNS and you have the perfect formula for dumb-a*s western media embaressment.

Well I can only guess you are either doing a lot of drugs or are so profoundly stupid as to be quite hilarious. Eh Mr T was ousted in a coup in 2006! HELLO!

Again we see the "you don't live here school of thought- and I looked at your profile and I made all sorts of assumptions" from a profile not updated for many months!

You assume and presume way too much and anyway this distraction tactic avoids the fact that you are writing uninformed rubbish as opposed to any informed or intelligent comment.

The only embarrassment is people like you who are ignorant and arrogant as can be. But you have every right to make a fool of yourself.

Erm.. have you any idea what "Mr T" was doing when the coup occurred? Apparently not. If you think it had anything to do with democracy then you really have a lot to learn. He was in power for 2 years? Come on.. use a little bit of fact. Now your arguement has turned into baseless insults. .

Your making even less sense now and writing in riddles! As a matter of documented fact MR T was indeed ousted [illegally] in a coup in 2006.

So as it is now 2008 and he has not been PM since then [2006] we can see that this means indeed he has not been in power for 2 years! Even though I am bad at maths I can still do the sum here on that one.

When you write

"He was in power for 2 years?" you only seem more confused than ever!

As for the baseless insults? No they are unfortunate I agree and I prefer not to waste your time or mine, or such a waste of out efforts but they are not baseless.

You wrote stuff that makes little sense and insult others with vulgar comments and accusations so it can lead people to respond with clarifications and refutations.

I honestly dont know if you are doing drugs or are a bit stupid when it comes to politics but essentially you would have people believe that you know better than an army of experts who make it their business to inform themselves about events taking place in Thailand. You dismiss the likes of the wall street journal with no clear argument or points.

If we both just kept to making points without wasting time making comments about each others motives or information sources then at least we might find some common ground and then compare our alternative perspectives.

Honestly though you just seem like someone who is really far out there!

Like a conspiracy nut? I mean thats just my impression- like to dismiss the whole western media they way you have done just makes no sense. I have my own problems with the western media but come on -your suggestion is a bit crazy?

Oops, more personal insults. Lowest form of flattery.

So some non-Thai speaking journo trying to make an impression who's read TKNS has a clearer understanding of what's going on in Thailand even though he may never have been here and knew very little before deciding to write his current story, which he researched by reading other western stories about Thailand (since he can't read Thai). If you believe that then there's no point in responding to you. (doh! i just did :-P )

BTW you seem to think my opinions are "out there". They are largely based on the opinions of dozens of Thai staff and friends. Obviously a perspective that the writer of that story lacks.

[Prue]

No I have no idea about lobbyist Barbour Griffith & Rogers and Edelman (PR) and I have even less interest in them now!

Your contention is always the same:

Thaskin this or Thaskin that- he is bad evil man etc etc etc

So you have no idea.. you clearly don't know about the tens of billions of baht that Thaksin stole from the Thai people, and you have never lived in Thailand. Dude! You're a tourist! Come back and go to the beach, get laid, go to temples. But don't open your mouth about politics here until you've learnt what Thai people really think, and what's really going on here. Here's a clue for you.. you won't find the truth about Thailand in the western media, no matter how much misinformed garbage you read. And please stop quoting it here.. it's just embarassing to see tourists pretend to know all about Thailand.

To all PRO democrat or PAD...whatever you are....Its ashamed to insulted some foreigner who love Thailand.....just only they disagreed with all you guys!!!!.....Pls open ur eyes & ur mind that everybody have thier own brain to think ...its doesnt mean ppl who think different are bad.....just be respect each other...!!!..dont acted like PAD & stop spoil Thailand with ur words...!!

& about some foreigner who live in Thailand....Do u think you really know well about Thailand politics? so if you guys hate Thaksin...its really ur problem.....i'm or may be someone who thought different from you not PRO Thaksin......why do you always thought that ppl who disagreed with you are PRO Thaksin? ..You are wrong.....go out somewhere in Thailand & ask with various kind of Thai ppl.....there have many Thai ppl not PRO Thaksin...not PRO Democrat......but they really dont like what The Pad destroyed their country & many trouble happened that i dont have to tell you more.....but they cant stand still with pretence democracy under topboots...& Thailand not belong just only you guys...!!!....so everybody have the right to share thier own opinion......pls be nice dont act like The Pad plssss...!!!!

& I'm so tried to arguement with someone who thought different so i give up...& dont want to speak anymore coz its really useless & never ending.....THANKS

[Neo]

No I have no idea about lobbyist Barbour Griffith & Rogers and Edelman (PR) and I have even less interest in them now!

Your contention is always the same:

Thaskin this or Thaskin that- he is bad evil man etc etc etc

So you have no idea.. you clearly don't know about the tens of billions of baht that Thaksin stole from the Thai people, and you have never lived in Thailand. Dude! You're a tourist! Come back and go to the beach, get laid, go to temples. But don't open your mouth about politics here until you've learnt what Thai people really think, and what's really going on here. Here's a clue for you.. you won't find the truth about Thailand in the western media, no matter how much misinformed garbage you read. And please stop quoting it here.. it's just embarassing to see tourists pretend to know all about Thailand.

To all PRO democrat or PAD...whatever you are....Its ashamed to insulted some foreigner who love Thailand.....just only they disagreed with all you guys!!!!.....Pls open ur eyes & ur mind that everybody have thier own brain to think ...its doesnt mean ppl who think different are bad.....just be respect each other...!!!..dont acted like PAD & stop spoil Thailand with ur words...!!

& about some foreigner who live in Thailand....Do u think you really know well about Thailand politics? so if you guys hate Thaksin...its really ur problem.....i'm or may be someone who thought different from you not PRO Thaksin......why do you always thought that ppl who disagreed with you are PRO Thaksin? ..You are wrong.....go out somewhere in Thailand & ask with various kind of Thai ppl.....there have many Thai ppl not PRO Thaksin...not PRO Democrat......but they really dont like what The Pad destroyed their country & many trouble happened that i dont have to tell you more.....but they cant stand still with pretence democracy under topboots...& Thailand not belong just only you guys...!!!....so everybody have the right to share thier own opinion......pls be nice dont act like The Pad plssss...!!!!

& I'm so tried to arguement with someone who thought different so i give up...& dont want to speak anymore coz its really useless & never ending.....THANKS

Yes Prue.. agreed on every point

I would only add that Thailand Friends is a cesspit of largely pointless discussion and it doesn't pay to take any of it seriously.

Also I have a pet peeve against the quoting of poorly researched material ;-)

[Prue]

allseasonman-------------You used to told me before on one of journal...that " your wasting your time trying to educate people who refuse to be fair and objective" .... & i really agreed with you & doing it......so better leave them alone....i saw you really work hard arguement with them...but believe me....its really useless & never ending....Its really waste your time & spoil your day.....!!!!

[zeusbheld]

allseasonman, hrrrrrrr.... can you go back to read p'grezzzy_greer's comment?

Do you know lobbyist Barbour Griffith & Rogers and Edelman (PR)

grezzzy_greer's comment's?

His are are even dumber than yours!

No I have no idea about lobbyist Barbour Griffith & Rogers and Edelman (PR) and I have even less interest in them now!

Your contention is always the same:

Thaskin this or Thaskin that- he is bad evil man etc etc etc

It is tiresome and irrelevant to why I and so many others would be able to see the mad PAD for what they are and see what has happened to Thailand.

there is absolutely no connection between seeing PAD for what they are and supporting Toxin in anyway. this may shock you. you'd better sit down for this:

it's possible to reject both sets of clapper clowns.

apparently not in your simplistic universe, and i breathlessly await your ham-handedly accusing me of being pro PAD.

the western media have been biased in favor of Toxin for quite a while due to the mere fact that he was elected rather than installed. make no mistake, it is a blatant bias and ill-informed, and has been in place since the coup. it defies logic to assume that the fact that Toxin was ousted by coup rather than election somehow legitimizes his actions.

oh and STOP POSTING ENTIRE ARTICLES IN LARGE TYPE ITS' ASSHOLISH AND WILL ONLY ALIENATE PEOPLE WHO OTHERWISE MIGHT HAVE BEEN PERSUADABLE.

[Neo]

the western media have been biased in favor of Toxin for quite a while due to the mere fact that he was elected rather than installed. make no mistake, it is a blatant bias and ill-informed, and has been in place since the coup. it defies logic to assume that the fact that Toxin was ousted by coup rather than election somehow legitimizes his actions.

Sorry Zeus, but you must be wrong because apparently that article was written by an army of experts (a non-military and democratically appointed army I hope)

I honestly dont know if you are doing drugs or are a bit stupid when it comes to politics but essentially you would have people believe that you know better than an army of experts who make it their business to inform themselves about events taking place in Thailand.