beej Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Thais hold more migrants amid row By Jonathan Head BBC News, Bangkok Burmese Rohingyas under guard in Thailand The Thai military is accused of sending refugees off to likely death The Thai military has taken into custody another group of asylum-seekers from Burma's Rohingya minority. It comes amid accusations - denied by the military - that units set hundreds of refugees adrift at sea last month. A boat carrying 46 Rohingyas was intercepted this morning off an island in southern Thailand, police confirm. Survivors who drifted to Indonesia and the Andaman Islands accuse the Thai military of towing them out to sea in boats with no engines and no food. The commander of the military units responsible for dealing with asylum-seekers has denied the accusations. However, testimony from exhausted and dehydrated survivors who have reached the Andaman Islands or Indonesia's Aceh province over the past week describes brutal treatment at the hands of the Thai security forces. 'Security risk' They say they were detained on an offshore island, then pushed onto boats without engines, and with their hands tied. They say many of the asylum-seekers died trying to swim back to land. Privately, some Thai military and police sources have admitted to the BBC that this has been happening - they say the escalating numbers of Rohingyas reaching Thailand from Burma or Bangladesh are seen as a security risk, because of fears they may include Islamic militants. The reason they disable their engines, they say, is to prevent them trying to come back to Thailand. Refugee welfare groups have condemned the practice as inhumane. The Thai government has so far been unable to comment on the allegations. Thailand accommodates millions of illegal migrants, mainly from neighbouring Burma, but takes a hard line against some, forcibly deporting those thought to threaten security. Anything more crimes you can get away with under the guise of ''Islamic Terrorist'' related security? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 You feel for any refugees, but these poor bas**rds get it from all sides. Not recognised in Burma, often forced into what is virtually slavery to survive. Flee to Bangladesh where they hope for succour from their fellow Muslims, but even there they are shut in camps, repatriated to Burma, beaten by the police and the locals. So they decide to try Thailand, and of course get this warm welcome Chris has mentioned. Why do they seem to be a forgotten group of refugees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco_funny Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 it s not the responsibility of Thailand or any other country to take care of them, if they want to end misery and poverty then let them make a gigantic popular revolution over their regime just like what other countries(Romania , french revolution 17th century etc ) has done in the past going to other people s country is not a long term solution to the root of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 it s not the responsibility of Thailand or any other country to take care of them, if they want to end misery and poverty then let them make a gigantic popular revolution over their regime just like what other countries(Romania , french revolution 17th century etc ) has done in the past going to other people s country is not a long term solution to the root of the problem. Quite right too!! Repatriate the beggars! Let's send all refugees home immediately from everywhere they seek asylum. Who cares whether they are economic refugees or genuine refugees fleeing persecution, beatings, rape, imprisonment, torture etc. Let them sort their own problems out!! Come on, let's do it now. Let's polish off the jackboots and march together. Let's mark them so we can identify them when the pogroms start! I am in a nice place in 2009, so I will be very polite about this... You sir, are a fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I was not too familiar with the Rohingya people until lately, interesting but sad history as of late. Thailand (Land of Smiles) has always had a terrible human rights past, and a black one when it comes to refugees and migrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stramash Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I was not too familiar with the Rohingya people until lately, interesting but sad history as of late.Thailand (Land of Smiles) has always had a terrible human rights past, and a black one when it comes to refugees and migrants. strangely enough, I was just reading an article on their plight last week, and then you posted this. As Bangladesh is one of the poorest countries in the world, and this is the Rohingya's preferred destination, you think something more could be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chang Doe Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Thailand (Land of Smiles) has always had a terrible human rights past, and a black one when it comes to refugees and migrants. That morning there was a TF-journal on this issue. But then a few minutes later it just disappeared. Because of that and because I know it's better not to speak to frankly sometimes (especially on some TH related topics), I want to ask about the forum policy. Is it OK to mention in detail the "incidence at Preah Vihear" from 1979? (Thousands of Cambodian refugees were forced back owing dubious circumstances and many died) I mean, without a shadow of a doubt I love the Thai army from my heart, and a strong and unbending army is the backbone of every proud country. But sometimes it goes to far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMatlock Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 You can find blogging about the topic all over the net. Check out http://thailandjumpedtheshark.blogspot.com/ Make sure you check out the links on the right hand side of the page as Fonzi isn't exactly the most balanced opinion out there. (an entertaining read though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfOrder Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 makes me sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyoiy Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 We have about 4-6 refugee camps in Thailand and UNHCR providing them some primary stuff for living and some education such as about birth controll etc but still not enough to all of them. They are safe in some level as long as they are stay in the camp but the quality of life in there is another issue and u can't imagine... But still better than being outside, *some ppl who are officially an officer under Thai government* treat them like they are not humans coz they are no right to speak as for being non-Thai in Thailand. Life in their own countries must be really terrible otherwise they won't run away to face this such thing... No surprise that whoever visiting refugee camps won't be able to hold the tear.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfOrder Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Burmese are such sweet and lovely people, proves that the world is wank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco_funny Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 it s not the responsibility of Thailand or any other country to take care of them, if they want to end misery and poverty then let them make a gigantic popular revolution over their regime just like what other countries(Romania , french revolution 17th century etc ) has done in the past going to other people s country is not a long term solution to the root of the problem. Quite right too!! Repatriate the beggars! Let's send all refugees home immediately from everywhere they seek asylum. Who cares whether they are economic refugees or genuine refugees fleeing persecution, beatings, rape, imprisonment, torture etc. Let them sort their own problems out!! Come on, let's do it now. Let's polish off the jackboots and march together. Let's mark them so we can identify them when the pogroms start! I am in a nice place in 2009, so I will be very polite about this... You sir, are a fool. it s not a good solution to let all people run away from their homeland leaving the root of the problem there, so while the Burmese junta spends billions of dollars on their leisure using the country rich gas and oil resources other people are starving to death, obviously some sort of a popular revolution is needed over there , so instead of annoying Thailand with problems and crimes , let them at least try to fight for their freedom in their own land, if 1 2 3 4 million died trying to do that it doesn't matter, at the end the things will be changed and the dictators will be thrown out and thus ending the whole problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco_funny Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 the solution applys also to many African countries where many European countries are hunting down the immigrants, the message is clear it s not possible that very natural resources rich countries and people are running away let them make a revolution just like the others, otherwise we should not help them at all because it s their town problem, just try to take a look at how much in dollars those countries have in export reserves , why should I help those people if their own government holds 50 billion $ or more ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco_funny Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 We have about 4-6 refugee camps in Thailand and UNHCR providing them some primary stuff for living and some education such as about birth controll etc but still not enough to all of them. They are safe in some level as long as they are stay in the camp but the quality of life in there is another issue and u can't imagine...But still better than being outside, *some ppl who are officially an officer under Thai government* treat them like they are not humans coz they are no right to speak as for being non-Thai in Thailand. Life in their own countries must be really terrible otherwise they won't run away to face this such thing... No surprise that whoever visiting refugee camps won't be able to hold the tear.. if you take a small office calculator and calculate how much is need to feed all the 55 million population of Burma for one year, the total cost will be around 10 Billion US$, then you will shocked to hear that the country makes much more then that exporting natural gas and energy resources, the official GDP is 15 billion but the Junta makes another hidden 25 billion$ and this comes to my conclusion that no body should help them out because they should ask them government where their money goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMatlock Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 if you take a small office calculator and calculate how much is need to feed all the 55 million population of Burma for one year, the total cost will be around 10 Billion US$, then you will shocked to hear that the country makes much more then that exporting natural gas and energy resources, the official GDP is 15 billion but the Junta makes another hidden 25 billion$ and this comes to my conclusion that no body should help them out because they should ask them government where their money goes. Easy to say that people should face torture and being killed when you're sitting safely at home not having to do it yourself... Wouldn't you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco_funny Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 if you take a small office calculator and calculate how much is need to feed all the 55 million population of Burma for one year, the total cost will be around 10 Billion US$, then you will shocked to hear that the country makes much more then that exporting natural gas and energy resources, the official GDP is 15 billion but the Junta makes another hidden 25 billion$ and this comes to my conclusion that no body should help them out because they should ask them government where their money goes. Easy to say that people should face torture and being killed when you're sitting safely at home not having to do it yourself... Wouldn't you agree? if you read a bit of history our fathers and grand fathers have died trying to fight for our freedom, Europe has obtained its social status due to the constant revolutions and fight for freedom, millions were killed as a result of that, but at the end people obtained their current welfare and social status from doing so, they have faced extermination and tortures and misery. last month you have seen how the Thai people did a similar story, they have closed the airport and protested and success ed to change the situation in the country. now I don't understand why the Thai should take care of some people who have already very rich country, let them copy the same thing so instead of being beggars they can be some sort of heroes and at least die in dignity, instead of begging and annoying other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMatlock Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 if you read a bit of history our fathers and grand fathers have died trying to fight for our freedom, Europe has obtained its social status due to the constant revolutions and fight for freedom, millions were killed as a result of that, but at the end people obtained their current welfare and social status from doing so, they have faced extermination and tortures and misery.last month you have seen how the Thai people did a similar story, they have closed the airport and protested and success ed to change the situation in the country. now I don't understand why the Thai should take care of some people who have already very rich country, let them copy the same thing so instead of being beggars they can be some sort of heroes and at least die in dignity, instead of begging and annoying other countries. I wasn't referring to "our fathers and grandfathers". I wasn't referring to the PAD's picnic in the airport. I'm talking about poor, unarmed Burmese people facing off with heavily armed soldiers with itchy trigger fingers and a total green light to off anyone who opposes them. I'm ALSO talking about YOU sitting comfortably at home, suggesting these people should face torture and death. It's easy for you to say these things because you'll never have to do it. (No need to be condescending about how I should read some history. I was a history major at uni before switching to comp sci, of course, you know it all better than anyone else.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco_funny Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 if you read a bit of history our fathers and grand fathers have died trying to fight for our freedom, Europe has obtained its social status due to the constant revolutions and fight for freedom, millions were killed as a result of that, but at the end people obtained their current welfare and social status from doing so, they have faced extermination and tortures and misery.last month you have seen how the Thai people did a similar story, they have closed the airport and protested and success ed to change the situation in the country. now I don't understand why the Thai should take care of some people who have already very rich country, let them copy the same thing so instead of being beggars they can be some sort of heroes and at least die in dignity, instead of begging and annoying other countries. I wasn't referring to "our fathers and grandfathers". I wasn't referring to the PAD's picnic in the airport. I'm talking about poor, unarmed Burmese people facing off with heavily armed soldiers with itchy trigger fingers and a total green light to off anyone who opposes them. I'm ALSO talking about YOU sitting comfortably at home, suggesting these people should face torture and death. It's easy for you to say these things because you'll never have to do it. (No need to be condescending about how I should read some history. I was a history major at uni before switching to comp sci, of course, you know it all better than anyone else.) read sir about the Romanian revolutions and how the Tanks rolled over the bodies of the people, but even with that it did not stop the determination of the people to fight back until they success ed to dethrone Ceausescu , even though Romania has one of brutest police and Army , at the end always the popular revolution wins, they are many other similar events, che guavara and many others, in my opinion those are cowards running away from their country so therefore they deserve all the humiliation done to them by others. few months ago thousands of people died in Zimbabwe from cholera present in the water system, yet a Swiss banker confess to one magazine that one of the relatives of Robert Mugabei has spent over 700 million$ during his trip in Europe and Monte carlo, the UN stated that the country needs a water purifying project that will cost 300 million$ to provide pure water to its 12 million inhabitant, so while his sons spent much more then that on casinos and luxurious yacht trips, let the people die in misery from the contaminated water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMatlock Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 if you read a bit of history our fathers and grand fathers have died trying to fight for our freedom, Europe has obtained its social status due to the constant revolutions and fight for freedom, millions were killed as a result of that, but at the end people obtained their current welfare and social status from doing so, they have faced extermination and tortures and misery.last month you have seen how the Thai people did a similar story, they have closed the airport and protested and success ed to change the situation in the country. now I don't understand why the Thai should take care of some people who have already very rich country, let them copy the same thing so instead of being beggars they can be some sort of heroes and at least die in dignity, instead of begging and annoying other countries. I wasn't referring to "our fathers and grandfathers". I wasn't referring to the PAD's picnic in the airport. I'm talking about poor, unarmed Burmese people facing off with heavily armed soldiers with itchy trigger fingers and a total green light to off anyone who opposes them. I'm ALSO talking about YOU sitting comfortably at home, suggesting these people should face torture and death. It's easy for you to say these things because you'll never have to do it. (No need to be condescending about how I should read some history. I was a history major at uni before switching to comp sci, of course, you know it all better than anyone else.) read sir about the Romanian revolutions and how the Tanks rolled over the bodies of the people, but even with that it did not stop the determination of the people to fight back until they success ed to dethrone Ceausescu , even though Romania has one of brutest police and Army , at the end always the popular revolution wins, they are many other similar events, che guavara and many others, in my opinion those are cowards running away from their country so therefore they deserve all the humiliation done to them by others. few months ago thousands of people died in Zimbabwe from cholera present in the water system, yet a Swiss banker confess to one magazine that one of the relatives of Robert Mugabei has spent over 700 million$ during his trip in Europe and Monte carlo, the UN stated that the country needs a water purifying project that will cost 300 million$ to provide pure water to its 12 million inhabitant, so while his sons spent much more then that on casinos and luxurious yacht trips, let the people die in misery from the contaminated water. Epic words from a guy who appears to enjoy jet-skiing and suntanning on the beach. I might be more inclined to acknowledge the necessity of lower classes to sometimes rise up against rich tyrants if it wasn't for your stuck-up, all-knowing, holier than thou way of putting it. I think they should rise up and be slaughtered too while I'm sitting here comfortably in my large, well-appointed condo. :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessyInBkk Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 It's very easy to say 'fighht for you freedom or future" becase all human history is about war and killing another. Why dont we learn from the past and be more civilised (as we always said about ourselves). Do all people from Burma have to stay and are kill every day (by gun, straving, foced llabor) while waiting for better life. If Thai officerreally thinking about national security i think foriegners in Pattaya, Phuket, Bkk are more dangerous than those people from Burma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I was not too familiar with the Rohingya people until lately, interesting but sad history as of late.Thailand (Land of Smiles) has always had a terrible human rights past, and a black one when it comes to refugees and migrants. strangely enough, I was just reading an article on their plight last week, and then you posted this. As Bangladesh is one of the poorest countries in the world, and this is the Rohingya's preferred destination, you think something more could be done. Thailand's record on dealing with refugees is mixed. They have done some terrible things, and some good things too. Overall, the Rohingya haven't been treated worse than the Karen or the Khmer or most others, so spare us the Muslim victimization whine. Bangladesh is the nearest exit point from Burma for the Rohingya. But these refugees or migrants were trying to reach Malaysia, which is where many Rohingya try to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I was not too familiar with the Rohingya people until lately, interesting but sad history as of late.Thailand (Land of Smiles) has always had a terrible human rights past, and a black one when it comes to refugees and migrants. strangely enough, I was just reading an article on their plight last week, and then you posted this. As Bangladesh is one of the poorest countries in the world, and this is the Rohingya's preferred destination, you think something more could be done. Thailand's record on dealing with refugees is mixed. They have done some terrible things, and some good things too. Overall, the Rohingya haven't been treated worse than the Karen or the Khmer or most others, so spare us the Muslim victimization whine. Bangladesh is the nearest exit point from Burma for the Rohingya. But these refugees or migrants were trying to reach Malaysia, which is where many Rohingya try to go. Its not a ''Muslim victimization'' whine, its a human rights whine if thats ok with you? I was just pointing out that its pretty poor for the military to use the ol' terrorism cod **** to justify their actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loburt Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 well, no it's not okay when you say the country has "always" had a terrible record when it comes to human rights and refugees, because that doesn't reflect the reality. as already stated, it's a mixed record, and is acknowledged as so by most human rights organizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 well, no it's not okay when you say the country has "always" had a terrible record when it comes to human rights and refugees, because that doesn't reflect the reality.as already stated, it's a mixed record, and is acknowledged as so by most human rights organizations. Ok so it has a mixed record, but I'd edge to the darker side of gray, over the past 50 years. You can't really say Thailand's a bastion of human rights with its own people let alone the Burmese, Karen, Hmong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco_funny Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 It's very easy to say 'fighht for you freedom or future" becase all human history is about war and killing another. Why dont we learn from the past and be more civilised (as we always said about ourselves). Do all people from Burma have to stay and are kill every day (by gun, straving, foced llabor) while waiting for better life. If Thai officerreally thinking about national security i think foriegners in Pattaya, Phuket, Bkk are more dangerous than those people from Burma. people have two choices either they sacrifice a bit for their own dignity and freedom, or stay enslaved under a dictator or somewhere in other foreign country, now i understands why Joseph Stalin was gunning down the retreating soviet soldiers from the front line because otherwise the Nazi has won and nobody could stop them, yes millions have died in Stalingrad but the result was wonderful the Nazi couldn't enslave them according to their original plan. few years ago when i was visiting south Korea i asked a Korean man why they were treating the south Asian labor very harsh over there, he told me because they view them as traitors to their own homeland, he explained to me how people in Korea worked day and night during the 1970s 1980s standing horrible misery that even when he was born he and his dad and mum was sharing small cup of rice and how his father was labor carrying goods from the harbor, south Korea during that time was in the level of poor developing county like Mali, in spite of all that misery no body has left the country they all worked in harmony and solidarity to bring up the country to the current economical level they are now as one of the top 15th richest counties in the world. the south Koreans encountered the financial crisis of 1997 with great courage, some of them was selling their wife s jewelery just to stay competitive in this world. leaving the homeland for economical or other reasons is very bad idea indeed, take a look at the Philippines for example, they are much poorer of Thailand inspire of an excellent educational system, simply because everyone is selfish and thinking of earning higher salary abroad while leaving his country in chaos, the intellectual and brain drain is catastrophic to any developing country, leading to further degradation and deterioration of the country. there s nothing better then someone living in his own homeland in higher dignity even with small wage, rather then earn the reputation of beggar or slave in someone else s country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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